Not ROFR thread - general discussion

[crvetter]

The interaction I had regarding DVC Title and Escrow was for a Florida property (BLT), so am I right to assume that they weren’t allowed to tell me I couldn’t use the title company of my choosing? Especially if I was willing to pay?

My understanding in Florida is yes if you are paying for the title insurance it’s your choice. You don’t even need to pay all the fees just the title insurance.

 

[Grapefruit]

Got it. Thank you for the info @crvetter

 

[crvetter]

Got it. Thank you for the info @crvetter

I will add it might be considered best practices. Basically meaning there is no litigated or explicit law that states this but the de-facto assumed status. But in any case the person buying/paying should be picking as standard practice.

 

[Grapefruit]

Pretty sure this a major part of many brokers business model. There’s a lot of sliminess in DVC resale, in my opinion—but the main alternative is paying Disney 2x as much for direct.

No doubt about that. I do still feel that some brokers are more ethical than others and more willing to work with both buyers and sellers to make a transaction happen. You know, instead of disparage or mock potential buyers that are putting in offers more realistic to the market than the inflated prices we continue to see from some of them.

 

[AstroBlasters]

No doubt about that. I do still feel that some brokers are more ethical than others and more willing to work with both buyers and sellers to make a transaction happen. You know, instead of disparage or mock potential buyers that are putting in offers more realistic to the market than the inflated prices we continue to see from some of them.

You mean the “non-serious” buyers who want the sellers to sell at a price so low they can go jump on a message board to cheer what a sucker of a seller they found?

It’s all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[lilsonicfan]

You mean the “non-serious” buyers who want the sellers to sell at a price so low they can go jump on a message board to cheer what a sucker of a seller they found?

It’s all in the eye of the beholder.

IDK if there's really a lot of that or not, non-serious buyers showing up on the boards to crow about a deal that they aren't actually buying.

@Grapefruit, I am not sure if a broker is required to disclose that they are the owner, I doubt it.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

The interaction I had regarding DVC Title and Escrow was for a Florida property (BLT), so am I right to assume that they weren’t allowed to tell me I couldn’t use the title company of my choosing? Especially if I was willing to pay?

I don’t know about any of you, but I sure as hell am not paying for something I don’t choose to.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

You mean the “non-serious” buyers who want the sellers to sell at a price so low they can go jump on a message board to cheer what a sucker of a seller they found?

It’s all in the eye of the beholder.

I can’t tell if this was intended as sarcasm, but I don’t think anybody is trying to buy low so they can cheer that the seller is a sucker or even so they can brag on the ROFR thread—we’re all tolerating the hassle of the resale market to stretch our dollars to get as many Disney vacations as we can and some of us are more dedicated to stretching every last cent.

When I have gotten good deals, I don’t assume the seller is a sucker (they have brokers advising them), I assume they bought at a much lower price years earlier, got the value they wanted out of it (while I was paying holiday rack rates like a chump), and they are financially secure enough they just want to sell the contract quickly and don’t need to stretch every last dollar.

Admittedly, that’s more likely true of a cheap OKW or BCV great deal and less likely true of a RIV or VDH great deal. I do think I might feel guilty buying VDH at $120…but that’s also more than I’m willing to pay for VDH resale—so I don’t really have to worry about the ethical dilemma.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I can’t tell if this was intended as sarcasm, but I don’t think anybody is trying to buy low so they can cheer that the seller is a sucker or even so they can brag on the ROFR thread—we’re all tolerating the hassle of the resale market to stretch our dollars to get as many Disney vacations as we can and some of us are more dedicated to stretching every last cent.

When I have gotten good deals, I don’t assume the seller is a sucker (they have brokers advising them), I assume they bought at a much lower price years earlier, got the value they wanted out of it (while I was paying holiday rack rates like a chump), and they are financially secure enough they just want to sell the contract quickly and don’t need to stretch every last dollar.

Admittedly, that’s more likely true of a cheap OKW or BCV great deal and less likely true of a RIV or VDH great deal. I do think I might feel guilty buying VDH at $120…but that’s also more than I’m willing to pay for VDH resale—so I don’t really have to worry about the ethical dilemma.

It was absolutely sarcasm, but probably somewhat true to how some of the brokers feel.

I personally look at buyers as liquidity providers for a niche market.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I can’t tell if this was intended as sarcasm, but I don’t think anybody is trying to buy low so they can cheer that the seller is a sucker or even so they can brag on the ROFR thread—we’re all tolerating the hassle of the resale market to stretch our dollars to get as many Disney vacations as we can and some of us are more dedicated to stretching every last cent.

When I have gotten good deals, I don’t assume the seller is a sucker (they have brokers advising them), I assume they bought at a much lower price years earlier, got the value they wanted out of it (while I was paying holiday rack rates like a chump), and they are financially secure enough they just want to sell the contract quickly and don’t need to stretch every last dollar.

Admittedly, that’s more likely true of a cheap OKW or BCV great deal and less likely true of a RIV or VDH great deal. I do think I might feel guilty buying VDH at $120…but that’s also more than I’m willing to pay for VDH resale—so I don’t really have to worry about the ethical dilemma.

Yeah nobody is forcing sellers to sell to anyone. Many people paid much much less than they are selling for. If you have a seller thats willing to not profit as much another seller that’s a win and quite possibly a win for the seller too since they get their money quicker than its not sitting in the market for who knows how long. Just like real estate there are deals to be made and often the deals can actually benefit both parties. Sometimes if you wait and don’t accept an offer it sits and then you end up lowering your price anyway.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It was absolutely sarcasm, but probably somewhat true to how some of the brokers feel.

I personally look at buyers as liquidity providers for a niche market.

Whew! I was hoping you weren’t serious

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Sometimes if you wait and don’t accept an offer it sits and then you end up lowering your price anyway.

I suspect there are a lot of people who were advised by certain brokers not to sell several of the resorts at materially higher prices a couple years ago. Not sure how many of them ended up selling for less than they would have if they cut a deal —let alone how much upside they missed out on other investments if they’d put that money to work.

 

[crvetter]

The DVC market is somewhat more volatile because of the lower pool of buyers, factor into use years mattering, number od points, and resort. Almost 2 years ago I sold my CCV contract for 165 a point with the current UY stripped. Within a week I had offers ranging from 125-165, i obviously accepted the highest, but to some people they probably felt it’s all it was worth.

And in 2019 I bought VGC for 185 a point, 75 pointer with a full year of points banked. Which was 15 below their ask and they had listed full offers only accepted.

It’s hard since DVC doesn’t go into a MLS what the sale prices have been. That would certainly make the market more efficient.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It’s hard since DVC doesn’t go into a MLS what the sale prices have been. That would certainly make the market more efficient.

I live in a non disclosure state and it sure does make watching the real estate market difficult. An agent can tell you what a property sold for but you can’t keep track of sold values on your own. I strongly dislike it because it makes knowing what my house could sell for much more difficult.

 

[LittleBitGoofy]

I live in a non disclosure state and it sure does make watching the real estate market difficult. An agent can tell you what a property sold for but you can’t keep track of sold values on your own. I strongly dislike it because it makes knowing what my house could sell for much more difficult.

That would be incredibly frustrating. Can't imagine the challenge of running a CMA if I was blind on sold prices.

 

[CastAStone]

Also we do not use DVC Title & Escrow, they are not one of our approved vendors.”

That would IMMEDIATELY remove that broker from MY list of approved vendors.

If you don’t want to use my title company, I have zero choice but to assume you are a scammer.

Period!

 

[CastAStone]

I had offers ranging from 125-165, i obviously accepted the highest, but to some people they probably felt it’s all it was worth.

Yeah that tracks.

Another way to label the bottom axis of this Econ 101 demand curve is “number of people who think the thing is worth that price”.

I stay exclusively in 1 BRs so the contract is worth less to me than it is to someone who stays exclusively in studios. I will get as little as $20/point in value on some redemptions, whereas in a studio you might get $50 or more. So I lowballed everything, not to be a jerk or to get the best deal, but because I calculated that I needed a loaded contract in the low $80s to make the whole thing make sense financially to me.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Yeah that tracks.

Another way to label the bottom axis of this Econ 101 demand curve is “number of people who think the thing is worth that price”.
View attachment 873504
I stay exclusively in 1 BRs so the contract is worth less to me than it is to someone who stays exclusively in studios. I will get as little as $20/point in value on some redemptions, whereas in a studio you might get $50 or more. So I lowballed everything, not to be a jerk or to get the best deal, but because I calculated that I needed a loaded contract in the low $80s to make the whole thing make sense financially to me.

This demand curve is also why I can’t currently buy VGC—I totally understand why it’s worth $10-40/pt more to someone who can reliably book 3+ nights at the 9-11 month mark. We just can’t/don’t reliably plan any DLR trips more than 9 months out, typically less than 5, and we don’t stay more than a night or two at a time (we’re pretty local). It makes it really, really hard to justify buying resale VGC more than many resorts direct, especially since we have good luck clearing a night here or there at the 2-3m mark off waitlists.

 

[ChipTheRescueRanger]

My new favourite is seeing on a certain brokers site "red hot offer" with the contract being over priced and not accepting offers

 

[ChipTheRescueRanger]

As the large number thread got shut down. Time to resurrect this general discussion thread