Not looking for a diagnosis, but...

[BeckyScott]

Let me say up front that I am not looking for a diagnosis from anyone here, cause we don't do that. I am pursuing an evaluation but want to do some reading beforehand (cause we know that doing our own research is important). But I don't even know exactly where to start reading.

DS10 and in 5th grade. Already diagnosed by our family ped with ADHD (inattentive) but I'm pursuing diagnosis by a specialist.

There are some other things going on that I think may be indicative of a SLD but I'm not sure where to even start reading.

Here are the main "issues":
Math- unable to memorize times tables. This is the first time he's needed to rote memorize anything major. He was supposed to do them last year and couldn't, now this year they've moved on to factoring and he's getting lost very fast. I downloaded Timez Attack last year thinking that giving it to him as a visual computer game might help, but he's just gotten past the 3's and is very very frustrated, to put it mildly.
Reversals- he was still doing some reversals in 3rd grade, both alphabet and numeric. The school said not to worry about it til the end of 3rd grade. By then, they'd taught cursive. He does better with that, although his handwriting is a mess.
Lack of organization- which I know is part of ADHD, although he has taken it to a new level. At school this manifests as forgetting homework, turning in things late, to the point where it is affecting his grades big-time. And I'm loading his backpack so I know the stuff is in there, but it never makes it to the teacher. At home this manifests as leaving things in odd places (although those things have "homes" he doesn't put them there) and then not being able to find the stuff later. Like losing his shoes when he took them off 4 minutes ago.
He does have some signs of Aspie, although I don't think enough. I'm going to ask. Quirky social skills, although he is very "social" many ways, some of the skills are lacking. Obsessed with certain things at certain times, but not overly obsessed. Big sense of social justice/ injustice. Very technical visual learner.
He gets mad very easily, angry. But. He's on Adderall and starting puberty too. But even before, he's always had a short fuse.

I am thinking he might have, along with the ADHD (which I do believe is an accurate diagnosis) some sort of SLD. Maybe dysgraphia. Maybe some sort of memory problem. I need to do reading, but I'm not even sure where to start. Is there any one thing that encompasses all of those issues? Or probably we are looking at more than one thing going on? The problems he's having are ongoing for a couple of years now, and I've tried and tried to figure out work-arounds for them but nothing seems to be working. And next year he's headed to middle school, where they have lockers and change out rooms every class, which will be a total nightmare if we don't get something figured out now.

Like I said (disclaimer) I am just looking for suggestions on topics for further research. I am lining him up for a proper medical eval but it will take a few months to get in. And I am pursuing evals thru the school, although I don't trust them as far as I could throw them.

 

[shewelch]

With you obvious knowledge of many conditions etc., I would recommend the DSM IV and the Study Guide...

http://www.appi.org/book.cfm?id=62046

 

[mechurchlady]

I have brain quirks because there never was a diagnosis. I am ADD for sure, sensory issues especially with food, and aspie tendencies thought not aspie. The problem is that one symptom can be the result of many things. When I am stressed I rock, thump my foot in the car, and other stuff but is that aspie or is that a coping mechanism for 50 years of verbal abuse by my mother? My moods can be from the aspie like stuff, low sugars, stress, depression as in life is not fair, malnutrition from celiac, not eating right, ADD, and many other things.

The school was wrong to tell you that reversing letters and numbers would go away at the end of school IT NEVER GOES AWAY, usually. If he has dyslexia or disgraphia or what ever then he will always see numbers, letters, words or what ever wrong. My pastor's wife and daughter have dyslexia big time and I have heard a lot about it from them. In the long run not addressing dyslexia, etc. makes life worse for the kids and they end up unable to read properly and the lag in school.

I am left handed but write right handed. I have atrocious penmanship. I just could not make them smooth gliding circles, loops and stuff without lots of concentration and effort if at all. I know that it is not ADD for me but more of a poor coordination thing.

Mom cannot do any math other than adding, subtracting and multiplication. I cannot do a string of numbers like a phone number and knew someone else who was ADD who could not remember long strings of numbers like 555-5512. Is it poor training, ADD, aspie qualities or could it be just another bit of damage in the brain. What if while forming the brain missed out or was damaged so that part of memory was damaged and said damage was totally unrelated to aspies, ADD etc.?

As for the anger, I see it as frustration. I cannot do something so I self abuse or quit or get angry. It will take a lot of training to learn to recognize that he is getting to the point of anger and then quitting, rage, etc. I lost it recently and had a major tissy and still hurt from hitting the computer box. Generally for me it is the recognition of signs of stress and fatigue as well as knowing when I am about to meltdown. I was playing a game at Pogo and was not winning much in slots so instead of setting there for hours trying to recoup my losses I just hit X and closed the game. If not I would have been upset and eventually could have had a meltdown.

It is hard to have more than one brain quirk but with love, patience, good training, and the right diagnoses you should do fine with your kid.
Nap time so I may have rambled a bit too much tonight, hugs and sorry.

 

[bookwormde]

I agree reading DSM-IV is important for all present and potential diagnosis. Tony Attwood’s The complete guide to Aspergers would be the best starting place (since many of the things you describe are spectrum characteristics), if you already have it there some great references in the back.

For the times table I have a big on printed out (24” by 36”) which in one sheet shows the 1-12 times tables The school also has one that stays on his desk. Rather than remembering number individually, he just visualizes the whole chart. When he has been doing a lot of multiplication recently he dose not even refer to it.

The reversal thing is quite common since words are “read” in blocks and there is no discrimination between left and right in many cases, I still do some of it to this day (thank goodness for computers and spell check). One of the fun things I like to do is to read books/papers upside down, especially if someone is looking over my shoulder, since it make no difference to me (aspie humor).

As part of the evaluation they should be doing an Auditory process evaluation, which will tell you a lot about his linear memory. It does sound like he has the EF/visual non linear possessing spectrum characteristic which typically for linear memory needs, requires visual cues and special structures when he is required to attempt linear processes. This is such a newly understood field that there is not yet a comprehensive work in this area. The good news is that this is the characteristic, which makes spectrum individuals so exceptionally inventive and insightful.

The homework thing needs to be addressed in the IEP with accommodations and an EF curriculum.

One of the reasons the ADHD medications are contraindicated for individuals with spectrum characteristics is because of the inherently high levels of anxiety which goes along with having spectrum characteristics (unless the individual is exceptionally well adapted) is exacerbated by the stimulant characteristics of the medicines, thereby the “short fuse” situation (not that this does not happen anyway it is just more frequent and intense with the medication especially when the individual is facing social stress, new situation, puberty etc.)

The “short fuse” situation is one of the main reasons that reevaluations often happen around puberty, with the potential for “damage” being greater since the individual has adult size capabilities.

bookwormde

 

[BeckyScott]

One of the fun things I like to do is to read books/papers upside down, especially if someone is looking over my shoulder, since it make no difference to me (aspie humor).

Our 8 y/o with autism does this. The school did evals on him last year. They had put the instruction booklet down on the table across from him, and were doing the testing, and he started reading the instructions to them.

Anyway, back to the other kid. The school sped coordinator is pulling out his record and talking to his teacher and will get back with me tomorrow about testing for SLD's.

The hospital to get him in for an eval, which is well-reputed and has always been very good with us, I have to do a phone interview with a "gatekeeper" and probably fill out some paperwork. I don't think there will be a problem getting him in, it's more a matter of how long it will take.

Looks like I have some reading to do...

 

[Snoopymom]

oops, posted 2x, sorry.

 

[Snoopymom]

I
As part of the evaluation they should be doing an Auditory process evaluation, which will tell you a lot about his linear memory. It does sound like he has the EF/visual non linear possessing spectrum characteristic bookwormde

Ds has just been diagnosed with an auditory processing disorder and a visual linear processing problem, and his special education teacher is trying to get a grant for the Herman reading method/program, have you heard of it? Will it help?

Thanks for all your helpful posts, I always read them.

 

[Snoopymom]

Like I said (disclaimer) I am just looking for suggestions on topics for further research.

The frontal lobe in general...frontal lobe problems - cyst, injury, or seizures can present themselves as severe ADHD, as they did in ds.

Good luck!

 

[bookwormde]

Snoopymom

I have never heard of Herman reading method/program. If you have any links I would love to read about it.

bookwormde

 

[Snoopymom]

Snoopymom

I have never heard of Herman reading method/program. If you have any links I would love to read about it.

bookwormde

http://store.cambiumlearning.com/Pr...d=019005474&functionID=009000008&pID=&site=sw

I had never heard of it either. It's expensive. She was able to get part of it and she's trying to get a grant for the rest.

 

[bookwormde]

Snoopymom

Thanks for the link, looks like it might help from the information available in some areas although I did not see much to help with EF (executive function) or non-linear processing but only the very newest programs are beginning to address these areas.

bookwormde

 

[Snoopymom]

Snoopymom

Thanks for the link, looks like it might help from the information available in some areas although I did not see much to help with EF (executive function) or non-linear processing but only the very newest programs are beginning to address these areas.

bookwormde

That's what I was thinking. I'll let you know if turns out to be a miracle method. Thanks!

Sorry to interrupt BeckyScott.

 

[mom22belles]

My DD aged 10 ( 5th Gr) has Non Verbal Learning Disorder. Everything you have said about your son could be used to discribe my DD. I had never heard of the disorder before my DD was diagnoised. We went into the evaluation ( for learning disabilites) thinking she had ADHD as we have a family history of it. The team felt while she could have ADHD the NLD was the the over whelming factor. Often kids with NLD are misdiagoised with ADHD.

Just an idea for you to research.

Nancy

 

[mechurchlady]

http://www.sensorysmarts.com/signs.html
That may be an answer.

Today I sat crying as I read that and it hit me that I definitely have SID. The problem is that Autistics and ADD people have a higher rate of SID so that a person might have those qualities but have SID.

I hope to hear of any news.

 

[zumbergc]

Ok, I not up on all the diagnosis, etc. But, want to share some info I learned at the natural path this week.

I have digestive issues, and one suppliment she has me on is choline. Choline helps to help digest fats. Well, she opened a document that mentioned that it helps some ADHD kids. It also helps with memory issues, and she showed me the document, helped kids with some of the other .

I googled choline and autism. Scroll down or search for choline,
http://oreilly.com/medical/autism/news/sup_reference.html
Who knows if your child is deficient in this nutrient, or other ones.
I've just started doing the natural path stuff, but its a non-traditional way to possibly help some health issues. She looks for what your body is missing in figuring out the symptoms people come in ther with.
Connie


-- here is what that site says---
Choline (phosphatidyl choline)

Use: Tourette's syndrome, bipolar disorder, Alzheimer's disease, tardive dyskensia, memory loss, sleepiness, irritability, insomnia, poor muscle coordination, learning difficulties, liver problems (including alcohol-induced cirrhosis).

Action, if known: Choline helps in the manufacture of cell membranes. It also assists production of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which controls the parasympathetic nervous system (including the GI tract), and also has effects within the brain. It promotes metabolism of fats, and reduces the level of "bad" cholesterol.

Side effects: In high doses, nausea, gas, excessive sweating or salivation, or fishy body odor may occur.

Interaction hazards: Phenobarbital and methotrexate may counteract choline.

Tips: Choline is one of the active ingredients in lecithin. Normally, your body should produce enough on its own. It is also found in eggs, soybeans, cabbage, and many other foods.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

I'm afraid I've not read the replies people have posted to this thread, so sorry if I repeat anything, but it sounds like he might be Dyslexic. I'm Dyslexic, but only found out when I got to university, and pushed to get myself tested. When I was younger, I had a lot of the problems you're describing in your son (still do, to an extent), such as problems memorising times tables, disorganisation and bad handwriting. My mother is currently doing a Master's degree in special education, and apparently Dyslexia, Autism and ADHD are all in the same sort of family. I have a friend who is Dyslexic, Dyspraxic, OCD and ADH(HHHHHHH)D, so they do sometimes come as a whole bundle.

If he is Dyslexic, it can be dealt with and worked around. For myself, I think the Dyslexia has made me much more mathematically and kinesthetically minded, which is why I wet for Engineering. He really just has to find the areas he's most comfortable in, and keep trying hard at the other things.

You might also want to look in to Irlen testing for him. Visit irlen.com to find out about the condition. I recently got coloured lenses, and they've been a great help to me.

Good luck!