Not impressed with the current fastpass system

[mesaboy2]

Please someone help me understand HOW the "new" FP system will increase the standby line. I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I just don't get it!

I may be totally misunderstanding it but for all intent and purpose SAY WDW only let 10,000 people MAX into the park! Ride x has 50 FP issued in hour increments just as before. Before they were supposed to return between 10-11, say 25 did and 25 came later between 3-4. Then at 10:15-11:15 25 return and 25 come later also between 3-4. Then people who were issued FP for 3-4 ALL decide to ride...now you have 100 people in the FP line at 3-4 vs the 50 they expected....to me THIS would slow down the standby line at 3-4 vs the people being able to PLAN for a max of 50 people in FP per hour increment (so what max of 200 in the FP line at a time, if they were done every 15 min as an example). I know my numbers are totally arbitrary but I'm just trying to understand the flow of people in either line. To me, more people in FP line means more people in standby which is due to slower movement b/c of letting all the FP people on and fewer people in FP means the standby line moves faster and would translate to a shorter line more than likely if it kept moving. PLEASE help me understand how limiting FPs will translate into longer standby lines when it is the standby line who will actually be able to finally GET on a ride??

How do you come to the conclusion that there will be fewer ("limiting") FPs? Most educated guesses are the new system will increase the total number of FPs (of any variety) distributed. If that is the case, the standby wait times should increase.

 

[KellyNY]

1- Yes, I did. And, I'm not backing away from that.

3 & 4- If they increase the number of FP's in the park, the standby waits must be affected (made longer.)
That is, unless fewer guests decide to enter the Standby line,
which is also an affect the new FP's can have on the Standby lines.

3- But, I, myself AM making assumptions, and have said as much.

5- That IS my assumption (again.)

And (again) if you don't think that they will increase the number of FP's,
and that Standby lines will remain unaffected, that's just fine.
That's YOUR speculation.

We disagree on "speculation."

It's a point that will become clear when the system is in use.

Nope, no speculations from me. Once again, I only point little facts. We do not know what they will do and change of number of FP is irrelevant to SB wait times anyway.

There is another little fact, line starts not at rope drop but at the point at time you can reserve a spot there. So, once again, SB is not longer, other people were there before you, just like in old system, nothing changed, except entering park first will mean nothing(correcton, will not mean everything. If you do not participate and I do npt participate, entering at rope drop will give you more chances then me, entering in afternoon.)

 

[KellyNY]

Cool!

Yes, the FP system NOW (any guest arriving with a valid park ticket can choose to get any particular available FP, or not) is about as "blind fairness" as a system as can be.

Your park ticket is your FP "qualification."

Which is probably how it will work with NextGen, you just donot have to be present at park, that is all. BTW, totally speculating here as we do not know details yet.

 

[WillAustin]

Nope, no speculations from me. Once again, I only point little facts. We do not know what they will do and change of number of FP is irrelevant to SB wait times anyway.

There is another little fact, line starts not at rope drop but at the point at time you can reserve a spot there. So, once again, SB is not longer, other people were there before you, just like in old system, nothing changed, except entering park first will mean nothing(correcton, will not mean everything. If you do not participate and I do npt participate, entering at rope drop will give you more chances then me, entering in afternoon.)

My speculation is they'll increase the amount of FPs, which will necessitate an even higher ratio of FP to standby riders being let through the line to keep the fastpass "fast", and this will slow the standby line.

 

[KellyNY]

My speculation is they'll increase the amount of FPs, which will necessitate an even higher ratio of FP to standby riders being let through the line to keep the fastpass "fast", and this will slow the standby line.

If you enter SB according to number of people in there(which would be not exactly smart) then yes, it will be a very unpleasant surprise. If you enter according to wait times above the ride, then how is it slower? All 100 people in virtual line even if they are not there yet, and all lets say 50 people in SB entered line before you. In old(present) system those 150 would be there as well, some in SB, some in FP. Number of riders did not change and therefore your wait times are the same.

 

[Robo]

If you enter according to wait times above the ride, then how is it slower?

You are the only poster referencing the "posted" wait times.

 

[KellyNY]

You are the only poster referencing the "posted" wait times.

And this is wrong because...?

 

[kaligal]

Lol, it took me forEVER to get that.

Lines, 20 minutes. Limes, an hour.

 

[WillAustin]

And this is wrong because...?

In this discussion, the posted wait times only matter relative to the posted wait times during the same crowd levels before the implementation of the new system.

I believe that after the new system is implemented, the standby wait will be longer than it was before.

Depending on how the new system shakes out, Disney might not mind that effect at all.

 

[goofyernmost]

I don't see how it would be practical (or even possible) for this type of major "new FP system" to operate without adding to the numbers of FP's distributed.

The ridership burden of additional FP's would be a principle reason for trying to focus the stated Return Times.

I guess we have to disagree. I see it as trying to make a perk for people who stay on the resort without really changing anything. The Fastpass supply will come from the same batch as before, but the Resort Guests will have first crack at it. From what I read, (none of us know how dependable the current information is), they will be limited to 3 (?) advance passes per day. They would be able to choose their times and those would come out of the time span batches already in existence. Since they load the machine at 5 minute intervals per hour, it would come from one of those 5 minute time slots.

Holding to the window times serves the purpose of being able to balance the load and maybe, maybe increase the FP's numbers at certain times of the day. I doubt, however, that the increase would be significant or even noticeable. Adhering to windows also gives them a base of organization and give Guests a schedule that they can plan on when making ADR's, etc.

The key thing to remember here is that those people that stay at the resort would be the same people that you presently compete with for FP's. The difference is that they will not be required to come to the park early to get them. That should free up the availability for others, besides them, to get access. Perhaps more than before because the resort guest will not be sitting at the gate at opening running to get FP's. They will get in the fold, later in the day most likely.

With a two hour wait time between FP's (normal) you would have to be there for 10 hours to get 5 FP's, only two more then they already have.

I see it as no more then what will be a wildly spun perk that really amounts to nothing different except that the resort guests will know they already have some. The battle continues unchanged for those that are not staying at any Disney Resort. The same approximate number of guests and the same load capacity of the attraction. (That part is not changeable)

I guess we will eventually see who has guessed correctly on this!

 

[mesaboy2]

I guess we have to disagree. I see it as trying to make a perk for people who stay on the resort without really changing anything. The Fastpass supply will come from the same batch as before, but the Resort Guests will have first crack at it. From what I read, (none of us know how dependable the current information is), they will be limited to 3 (?) advance passes per day. They would be able to choose their times and those would come out of the time span batches already in existence. Since they load the machine at 5 minute intervals per hour, it would come from one of those 5 minute time slots.

Holding to the window times serves the purpose of being able to balance the load and maybe, maybe increase the FP's numbers at certain times of the day. I doubt, however, that the increase would be significant or even noticeable. Adhering to windows also gives them a base of organization and give Guests a schedule that they can plan on when making ADR's, etc.

The key thing to remember here is that those people that stay at the resort would be the same people that you presently compete with for FP's. The difference is that they will not be required to come to the park early to get them. That should free up the availability for others, besides them, to get access. Perhaps more than before because the resort guest will not be sitting at the gate at opening running to get FP's. They will get in the fold, later in the day most likely.

With a two hour wait time between FP's (normal) you would have to be there for 10 hours to get 5 FP's, only two more then they already have.

I see it as no more then what will be a wildly spun perk that really amounts to nothing different except that the resort guests will know they already have some. The battle continues unchanged for those that are not staying at any Disney Resort. The same approximate number of guests and the same load capacity of the attraction. (That part is not changeable)

I guess we will eventually see who has guessed correctly on this!

The two bolded statements do not agree. If the total number of FPs is unchanged and a subset of them are now going to resort guests (where they didn't before), then there are fewer FPs in the park for non-resort guests. Where did my logic fail me?

 

[WillAustin]

The key thing to remember here is that those people that stay at the resort would be the same people that you presently compete with for FP's.

I'm wondering if participating the the advance reservations will limit or disable my ability to get an in-park FP. That could get complicated.

Unless they block it, I don't think we will see a one to one correlation meaning for every advance reservation there will be one less in-park FP user.

If they don't increase the number of FPs, they will definitely run out much quicker in the parks.

If I could do both, getting advance FPs and then getting more throughout the day, I'd definitely do it.

 

[KellyNY]

In this discussion, the posted wait times only matter relative to the posted wait times during the same crowd levels before the implementation of the new system.

I believe that after the new system is implemented, the standby wait will be longer than it was before.

Depending on how the new system shakes out, Disney might not mind that effect at all.

And you can only compare it during same period of time, on a same day, with exactly same conditions, more or less.

Posted wait times are the wait times with little variation due to this or that which will happen with any system.

Isn't it what we take in considertion when we enter line? and this is what you actually spend in SB line, again with variations.

Isn't it this is the only number we can even reference, because if we use expressions like "longer", "shorter", "slower", "faster" then "???", what should be in "???". If we do not use posted times then what this is all about, our concept of slower, longer... which is different from person to person?

 

[goofyernmost]

The two bolded statements do not agree. If the total number of FPs is unchanged and a subset of them are now going to resort guests (where they didn't before), then there are fewer FPs in the park for non-resort guests. Where did my logic fail me?

I'm wondering if participating the the advance reservations will limit or disable my ability to get an in-park FP. That could get complicated.

Unless they block it, I don't think we will see a one to one correlation meaning for every advance reservation there will be one less in-park FP user.

If they don't increase the number of FPs, they will definitely run out much quicker in the parks.

If I could do both, getting advance FPs and then getting more throughout the day, I'd definitely do it.

No to both of these because...these are the same people that are in the park getting FP's now. I think that the savvy FP'ers get at least 3 passes per day anyway, so how is that different.

It might mildly have some effect on it but I don't think it would be huge. Just the selected times that might become a bit consumed. Example, meal times, parade times, show times and firework times may not be chosen by advance picks, but that will leave them open for day travelers, which granted will not make the day tripper real happy, but at least some will be available instead of being taken and then held until later.

As far as getting more during the day...I'm sure that will be part of it, but there would have to be some time limitation built in for it to be workable without a riot.

 

[WillAustin]

And you can only compare it during same period of time, on a same day, with exactly same conditions, more or less.

Posted wait times are the wait times with little variation due to this or that which will happen with any system.

Isn't it what we take in considertion when we enter line? and this is what you actually spend in SB line, again with variations.

Isn't it this is the only number we can even reference, because if we use expressions like "longer", "shorter", "slower", "faster" then "???", what should be in "???". If we do not use posted times then what this is all about, our concept of slower, longer... which is different from person to person?

Yes, my point is that the posted wait time or actual waiting time will be longer than it was before.

 

[mesaboy2]

No to both of these because...these are the same people that are in the park getting FP's now. I think that the savvy FP'ers get at least 3 passes per day anyway, so how is that different.

It might mildly have some effect on it but I don't think it would be huge. Just the selected times that might become a bit consumed. Example, meal times, parade times, show times and firework times may not be chosen by advance picks, but that will leave them open for day travelers, which granted will not make the day tripper real happy, but at least some will be available instead of being taken and then held until later.

As far as getting more during the day...I'm sure that will be part of it, but there would have to be some time limitation built in for it to be workable without a riot.

Except they are not in the park getting them. Your assumption might be valid if all resort guests entered the parks at open. This is not the case. They get to sleep in knowing they already have them, where they didn't before. Again, there are fewer FPs available in the park to non-resort guests.

 

[mom2rtk]

You guys are missing the point. This is not a zero sum game. Make it easier to get fastpasses, and you'll have more people seeking out fastpasses. People who used to sleep in and miss out on FP opportunities? No problem, they'll book them from home ahead of time. But those new slots won't come out of thin air...... they have to come from somewhere.

So you'll have a growing universe of people seeking out fastpasses, but a finite number of ride slots per day (standby plus fastpass).

Something HAS to give.

 

[gator girl]

Something HAS to give.

And I think it's me. Fastpass debate has finally broken me. I'm under my desk in a fetal position right now.

 

[mesaboy2]

And I think it's me. Fastpass debate has finally broken me. I'm under my desk in a fetal position right now.

 

[KellyNY]

Yes, my point is that the posted wait time or actual waiting time will be longer than it was before.

So, now that we agreed that I am talking about very same wait times that the rest of the group, how do you see SB wait time longer then NOW if number of riders did not change? I understand what is your point but I want to see reasoning, if any.