Not Feeling The 11 Month Home Resort Love at BWV :-(

[wilma-bride]

Ah, OK, so yes it absolutely makes sense that you couldn't get the second day of your trip then. Thanks for the update and I am glad you were able to rearrange your trip so you could still stay at BWV.

Just to add, I honestly don't think you NEED to walk a reservation. Had you been online at exactly 11 months out, I feel you probably could have got what you wanted.

 

[MsTessP]

I reserve 11 months out for BWV standard and BW view F&W (even for a BW view for NYE one year!). Perhaps I've been lucky, but I have never had a problem reserving in that timeframe.

 

[DisDadDVC]

Hello all. I see this thread has grown and I wanted to update/clarify. I missed the first day booking at the 11 month and tried to book at 11month -1 day. I was able to get Friday 9/30 no problem, 10/1was sold out so I waitlisted it. The problem came when I got up the next morning to secure the remaining time for my trip at exactly 11 months. From reading the other posts, as the days became available, it appears that the people who booked 10/1 exactly already had everything else locked up. So, I just moved my trip to a week earlier which was still available (10/1 still waitlisted, but I will just pay cash for one night somewhere else if it doesn't come through. Work and school will be a problem next year, but I will figure something out. I will just have to be more diligent and walk the next reservation I wish to make. I really hate to do this as I think it creates other problems and creates too much stress. However, if I am the only one trying to play things straight it appears I will lose. This makes me sad, but I invested too much not to be able to use the points I purchased at the time I can travel.

There you have it. Conspiracy theories crushed...

 

[maburke]

There you have it. Conspiracy theories crushed...

I'm happy to have my conspiracy theory crushed. Back to drinking the Kool-Aid & breathing the pixie dust...

 

[bumbershoot]

There you have it. Conspiracy theories crushed...

Explain the other threads about it...

And no one was espousing conspiracy theories; my first post said that I felt that posts starting with that sort of thought process derailed the actual discussion, AND the second one said that I doubted hinky things could happen in such a regulated industry.

But there still are other threads about things like this.

 

[Dean]

This makes me sad, but I invested too much not to be able to use the points I purchased at the time I can travel.

This has long since been one of my cautions. That people buy with the idea of a specific time or option and end up not being able to get it consistently. This could happen due to availability but also due to their own personal situation limiting when they can plan. Being able to reserve 7 days at a time has helped this situation somewhat for the most difficult to get options.

 

[skier_pete]

Just as a general comment...as an owner at any DVC resort that has a low-point room option (I am thinking AKV, BWV, and BLT specifically) you should not buy those resorts with the assumption that you will be able to get those value/standard rooms even at the 11-month mark, especially October - December.

AKL there are only 8 studios and 10 lock-offs for a resort of 450 units - so less than 4% of all availability is the value category. This makes these rooms amongst the hardest to get in all of DVC. (The Concierge rooms are worse, as there are only 5 of them instead of 18.)
BWV from what I can tell is about 20% of the resort is standard - so that's < 50 available studio rooms including the lock-offs. Easier to get than the AKL value rooms - but when you think of the thousands of owners you can see they can go fast -especially at that most popular of times like food and wine weekends.
BLT - the "Standard" category is again only 20%, but that limits it to only 26 studios for the whole resort - so you can see the same problem.

If you go right at 11-months you may be able to get what you want, but again remember many of the people who bought there did so with the intention of doing the same as you did, and you are still competing with all those owners.

OP: Since you currently seem to have booked the week before, but are just missing you last night - why don't you consider pool/garden view for the last night? It seems easier to move within the resort than to move to a completely different resort.

 

[Dean]

Just as a general comment...as an owner at any DVC resort that has a low-point room option (I am thinking AKV, BWV, and BLT specifically) you should not buy those resorts with the assumption that you will be able to get those value/standard rooms even at the 11-month mark, especially October - December.

AKL there are only 8 studios and 10 lock-offs for a resort of 450 units - so less than 4% of all availability is the value category. This makes these rooms amongst the hardest to get in all of DVC. (The Concierge rooms are worse, as there are only 5 of them instead of 18.)
BWV from what I can tell is about 20% of the resort is standard - so that's < 50 available studio rooms including the lock-offs. Easier to get than the AKL value rooms - but when you think of the thousands of owners you can see they can go fast -especially at that most popular of times like food and wine weekends.
BLT - the "Standard" category is again only 20%, but that limits it to only 26 studios for the whole resort - so you can see the same problem.

If you go right at 11-months you may be able to get what you want, but again remember many of the people who bought there did so with the intention of doing the same as you did, and you are still competing with all those owners.

OP: Since you currently seem to have booked the week before, but are just missing you last night - why don't you consider pool/garden view for the last night? It seems easier to move within the resort than to move to a completely different resort.

Often it's as cheap or cheaper to buy a cheaper resort and get the higher cost category at a different resort. This is certainly true for the options you mentioned for many scenarios. Some are more likely to be available at 7 months than others but from a cost standpoint it works out pretty well. For example, owning SSR and using for AKV standard is likely cheaper than owning AKV and using it for value a % of the time. When I ran the numbers recently you had to stay more than 65% of the time in the value to come out ahead owning AKV (IIRC) and that assumes you never got AKV value using the SSR points.

 

[CarolMN]

........(snip).......I'm not an expert on all of this and my eyes start to go blurry when I read too much, but I swear I keep reading this scenario. That SOMEtimes someone is trying to get their trip, but that SECOND day is blocked. And it seems like that should NOT be happening. But no one ever has an answer. (mainly b/c often the posters are posing it as a "DVC is up to something" post, and people get side-tracked, I think)

It is odd assuming that one is trying to book exactly at the 11 month window. If the first night is available, all 6 of the following nights should be available unless DVC has taken something out of inventory for maintenance purposes (HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT FAR AHEAD). DVC should be following all of the same booking rules as members do.

Today is 11/6/2015. If one is booking TODAY for a stay that begins on 10/6/2016 and the first night is available, then all the nights following that first night for a total of 7 night stay SHOULD be available. If not, something is definitely not right.

Now if one is trying to book a stay TODAY that begins on 10/5/2015, it is entirely possible that 10/5 is available but 10/6 is not.

It is difficult from the post to tell exactly what the OP did and when, but it sounds like she/he didn't attempt to book the entire trip at 8 am Eastern on the day the window opened. The window for a trip that begins on 9/30/2016 opened on Friday, October 30. If 9/30 was available at that time, she should have been able to book 9/30 - 10/7 (first 7 nights). Then she could call MS a few days later (but before 11/7) to add the last 3 nights to her reservation.

OP - Hope you can get what you need via the waitlist. Good luck!

P.S. The new RAT is not always reflecting what is actually available (at least it seems so in my experience), so if I want something I go straight to the booking engine and SKIP the RAT. (I never book through the RAT). IMO, it is especially important to use the DVC booking engine (and not go through the RAT) for the tough-to-get bookings at 11 months.

 

[skier_pete]

I reserve 11 months out for BWV standard and BW view F&W (even for a BW view for NYE one year!). Perhaps I've been lucky, but I have never had a problem reserving in that timeframe.

I should have pointed out that of the three "hard to get" categories I covered, BWV should be the easiest of the three. However, it also could readily have limited availability at certain times.

 

[lovin'fl]

Since reading this thread, I have been tracking since I want a standard view studio for F&W 2016. Now, granted, I have been checking around 10:40-10:50am each day where I should probably be checking around 8:30 and 9:30 (after booking online and by phone opens). But by 10:50 each day, for the past 4 days, the day 11 months out is gone. Here's my data:

11/3 (for 10/3/16)....10/1-10/3 gone while 10/4-10/10 still available
11/4.......................10/1-10/4 gone while 10/5-10/11 available
11/5.......................10/1-10/2 and 10/5 gone while 10/3-10/4 and 10/6-10/12 available
11/6.......................10/1-10/2 and 10/5-10/6 gone while 10/3-10/4 and 10/7-10/13 available
PLUS all of September still available.
Boardwalk view has been similar but just different days not available. Pool/Garden view has all available as do all 1BR villas.
How can I walk? Start on the Monday before? And I will be online right at 8am. I am going to try to check tomorrow at 8:30 and see if 10/7 is gone by then.

 

[lovin'fl]

And the weekend I am looking at is the Wine and Dine half marathon. Probably tough to get a sv studio then?

Switching my dates and going for later in Oct. Avoiding any holiday and run Disney event.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Since reading this thread, I have been tracking since I want a standard view studio for F&W 2016. Now, granted, I have been checking around 10:40-10:50am each day where I should probably be checking around 8:30 and 9:30 (after booking online and by phone opens). But by 10:50 each day, for the past 4 days, the day 11 months out is gone. Here's my data:

11/3 (for 10/3/16)....10/1-10/3 gone while 10/4-10/10 still available
11/4.......................10/1-10/4 gone while 10/5-10/11 available
11/5.......................10/1-10/2 and 10/5 gone while 10/3-10/4 and 10/6-10/12 available
11/6.......................10/1-10/2 and 10/5-10/6 gone while 10/3-10/4 and 10/7-10/13 available
PLUS all of September still available.
Boardwalk view has been similar but just different days not available. Pool/Garden view has all available as do all 1BR villas.
How can I walk? Start on the Monday before? And I will be online right at 8am. I am going to try to check tomorrow at 8:30 and see if 10/7 is gone by then.

If you want to walk it, you start looking a week or two before you need to book. Then on a day when you can get seven days, you book the seven days. The next day, you call MS and ask them to drop the first night and add one more night at the end. Continue until you get all the days you need.

 

[dmunsil]

nless DVC has taken something out of inventory for maintenance purposes (HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT FAR AHEAD).

I actually think they do take stuff out for scheduled maintenance that early. If they did it otherwise it would make maintenance a huge hassle. They want to do a whole block of rooms at once for efficiency, so they're going to take them out before anyone has a chance to book them.

DVC should be following all of the same booking rules as members do.

I don't think that's actually true. There are some statements in the original declaration of condominiums that might suggest that DVC has the same rights and responsibilities as other members, but there are other statements that seem to contradict that. And lately they've started adding a stock phrase to every declaration, which I posted earlier. Turns out it's from the latest revision of Florida timeshare law, which explicitly states that managers of timeshares are allowed to pre-pull room nights based on predicted demand.

You can see the version of the declaration of condominium that was prepared for the state of Utah below. The relevant paragraph is the third one on page vii, and is repeated a couple more times in the document.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...ts/corecatalog/utah/UT_VGF_PropertyReport.pdf

The statement is taken verbatim from the relevant section of Florida timeshare law. This was a revision in 2011 to (among other things) allow timeshare managers to trade, rent, or deposit room nights in advance based on forecasts of future usage. The relevant section is 12 (a), near the bottom of the page:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0721/Sections/0721.13.html

We've had multiple reports over the years of people being able to get a night at 11 months, but not the next. It doesn't happen often, which is what you'd expect; very few room types are going to sell out at 11 months in the first place. But there's no reason to assume it can't happen, because DVC does not need to wait until 11 months to pull the room out of the booking pool.

 

[maburke]

So can a person book a villa for cash through DRC more than 11 months out?

 

[DVC Mike]

There are some statements in the original declaration of condominiums that might suggest that DVC has the same rights and responsibilities as other members, but there are other statements that seem to contradict that. And lately they've started adding a stock phrase to every declaration, which I posted earlier. Turns out it's from the latest revision of Florida timeshare law, which explicitly states that managers of timeshares are allowed to pre-pull room nights based on predicted demand.

We've had multiple reports over the years of people being able to get a night at 11 months, but not the next. It doesn't happen often, which is what you'd expect; very few room types are going to sell out at 11 months in the first place. But there's no reason to assume it can't happen, because DVC does not need to wait until 11 months to pull the room out of the booking pool.

Don (@dmunsil), the section of the Florida timeshare law you mention seems to be for the benefit of the owners, right?


(12)(a) In addition to any other rights granted by the rules and regulations of the timeshare plan, the managing entity of a timeshare plan is authorized to manage the reservation and use of accommodations using those processes, analyses, procedures, and methods that are in the best interests of the owners as a whole to efficiently manage the timeshare plan and encourage the maximum use and enjoyment of the accommodations and other benefits made available through the timeshare plan. The managing entity shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservation and use of the accommodations, including the right to take into account current and previous reservation and use of the accommodations, information about events that are scheduled to occur, seasonal use patterns, and other pertinent factors that affect the reservation or use of the accommodations. In furtherance of the provisions of this subsection, the managing entity is authorized to reserve accommodations, in the best interests of the owners as a whole, for the purposes of depositing such reserved use with an affiliated exchange program or renting such reserved accommodations in order to facilitate the use or future use of the accommodations or other benefits made available through the timeshare plan.

(b) A statement in conspicuous type, in substantially the following form, shall appear in the public offering statement as provided in s. 721.07:
The managing entity shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservation and use of the accommodations of the timeshare plan and is authorized to reasonably reserve, deposit, or rent the accommodations for the purpose of facilitating the use or future use of the accommodations or other benefits made available through the timeshare plan.

(c) The managing entity shall maintain copies of all records, data, and information supporting the processes, analyses, procedures, and methods utilized by the managing entity in its determination to reserve accommodations of the timeshare plan pursuant to this subsection for a period of 5 years from the date of such determination. In the event of an investigation by the division for failure of a managing entity to comply with this subsection, the managing entity shall make all such records, data, and information available to the division for inspection, provided that if the managing entity complies with the provisions of s. 721.071, any such records, data, and information provided to the division shall constitute a trade secret pursuant to that section.


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[dmunsil]

Don (@dmunsil), the section of the Florida timeshare law you mention seems to be for the benefit of the owners, right?

Sure. That phrase "the best interests of the owners as a whole" does not create hard-and-fast limits on how exactly they run the resort. They need to be able to justify their actions as being in the best interests of the owners as a whole. The "owners as a whole" want a lot of things, including the ability to trade their points for other resorts and cruises and so forth, so I don't see any of this as being not in keeping with that requirement.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying it's a bad thing that rooms are being pulled out of circulation. Those rooms are no longer part of the owners booking pool - someone traded their points away, which is equivalent to trading away room-nights of the same value. So those rooms are effectively "booked" by someone who is trading for a cruise or a week in Vail. The fact that Disney can pre-pull rooms before people actually do the trade is not really a huge issue. I'm sure they're pretty conservative about it, and then slowly add more points to the pool as the actual exchanges come in. It would potentially be a problem if Disney pulled out more points worth room-nights than people actually ended up trading out, but one would hope they could just quietly put more room-nights back in as they saw the trend. Remember, people can't trade out for the last 4 months of the use year, so Disney has a whole third of the year to get the final balance correct.

 

[Deb & Bill]

So can a person book a villa for cash through DRC more than 11 months out?

If there is builder inventory available (like at the Polynesian) you might be able to do that. But for member inventory, it shouldn't be until at least 11 months out.

 

[Deb & Bill]

So can a person book a villa for cash through DRC more than 11 months out?

If there is builder inventory available (like at the Polynesian) you might be able to do that. But for member inventory, it shouldn't be until at least 11 months out.

 

[Dean]

As far back as I can remember, the POS has had terms that allowed anticipation of the breakage inventory up to the 11 month window. Plus of course they have control of reservation choices. For example they might designate that no lockoff's be broken apart for one period but allow it for another.