Not educating child

[RitaE]

I understand your concern but looking at a brief Google of Nebraska home schooling statues it doesn't appear that your ex-friend has any sort of duty of proof to the state that she is providing an education.

She either has to file a piece of paper saying she is providing an education which covers language, math, blah blah blah or she can file a piece of paper stating that a traditional education model interferes with their religious beliefs.

It is sad.

 

[Mama Who]

If she thought public school and leaving the kids with a nanny was emotional neglect and called CPS on you would you feel equally content with the intervention? I mean, done in the best interests of preventing you from screwing up your own kid, would you feel it was a positive thing?

If you'd be perfectly cheerful to defend your own parenting choices to a state agency because another family disapproved, you're on solid ground.

 

[tlbwriter]

If she thought public school and leaving the kids with a nanny was emotional neglect and called CPS on you would you feel equally content with the intervention? I mean, done in the best interests of preventing you from screwing up your own kid, would you feel it was a positive thing?

Presumably CPS would take the report, realize that sending your kids to public school and leaving them a nanny is not neglect, and close the file. And if CPS takes this report and believes it is without merit, they can do the same thing.

 

[princessmom29]

It's not the role of some random busybody to sic CPS on someone when they really and truly have no idea of what education someone is providing.

I am not a homeschooler. I would rather set fire to my own hair than homeschool. But it is the right of the parent to determine what kind of education is appropriate for their child, whether I agree with it or not.

There is a faction that homeschools because they want to indoctrinate their children with their religious beliefs, including many that are contradicted by science. I don't agree with it, should I call CPS on them?

There is another faction of homeschoolers that do what they call "unschooling," allowing the kids to decide for themselves what they are interested in learning. I can only imagine that for a lot of kids it involves a great deal of XBox, but it's not my responsibility to insert myself into the situation.

The Amish stop educating their kids at 8th grade. I find that reprehensible, but the Supreme Court thinks it's the right of the parents to do so.

It appears to me that the OP has a very good idea about how much schooling is NOT taking place in this situation.
Actually, in many states homeschooling MUST meet minimum standards in order to be allowed to continue, so no, a parent cannot choose not to educate thier child at all. It is in fact against the law to do so, and does become child neglect. In the other cases you mention, as long as they meet the minimum standard set by thier state, then what ever else they choose to teach is acceptable. To choose not to educate a child at all is agianst the law.

 

[PaulaSB12]

I have an issue with one of my wife's former friends, who also used to be our nanny. I say "former", as my wife has little contact with her now. She had brought such drama and poor influence into our household, we decided our family was better off without her.

However, I still have a major concern with her. She took her (then) 13 year old daughter out of school last year to "home school" her. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue -- I respect the decisions of families that are doing what they feel is best for the education of their children. The concern I have is that she doesn't educate her daughter at all. Instead, she uses her as a babysitter for their one-year old.

We had utilized the mom as a nanny over the summer, but let her go when she told us that she would not be putting her daughter in school again. In fact, she wanted to be able to leave her nanny responsibilities in the early afternoon, and have her daughter finish up watching our kids each day. We told her that we couldn't do that, didn't feel that what she was doing to her child was right, and that we'd need to find a new nanny.

We recently found out from the daughter that no home schooling has taken place this fall, and that she is primarily responsible for taking care of her younger brother. My wife has had multiple discussions with the mother in the past, trying to advocate for the daughter, to no use. We have been essentially told to "butt out".

After a great deal of thought and prayer, my wife contacted Child Protective Services and filed a complaint. Do you think we overstepped our bounds?

So the mother wants her 13 year old to baby sit the baby, wants her to do her mothers job in the afternoon and has decided the level of education she wants to give her daughter (as someone said is her right) is none and you are ok with this? Op you did the right thing.

 

[princessmom29]

If she thought public school and leaving the kids with a nanny was emotional neglect and called CPS on you would you feel equally content with the intervention? I mean, done in the best interests of preventing you from screwing up your own kid, would you feel it was a positive thing?

If you'd be perfectly cheerful to defend your own parenting choices to a state agency because another family disapproved, you're on solid ground.

As if CPS would even investigate that. Really? This is not about parenting choices at all but about willful neglect of a child.

 

[Mama Who]

Presumably CPS would take the report, realize that sending your kids to public school and leaving them a nanny is not neglect, and close the file. And if CPS takes this report and believes it is without merit, they can do the same thing.

Perhaps. The real question is how the OP would feel about being required to prove that they are a fit parent to an often hostile state agency just because someone else called and said they weren't. Would they be happy or outraged to have home inspections and personally invasive questions? Would they react with, "oh, thank goodness someone cared enough about my kid to accuse me of being unfit?"

The OP is convinced she knows exactly what is happening in someone else's home. On the basis of things she is not present for, she has called in a report to CPS. If demanding other families be inspected is okay, I just want to know if it applies to her too. Maybe she's right. Maybe she's not. Either way, I hope her own live being in such upheaval would be okay with her.

 

[bigredbill]

If she thought public school and leaving the kids with a nanny was emotional neglect and called CPS on you would you feel equally content with the intervention? I mean, done in the best interests of preventing you from screwing up your own kid, would you feel it was a positive thing?

If you'd be perfectly cheerful to defend your own parenting choices to a state agency because another family disapproved, you're on solid ground.

Both my wife and I are working professionals, and have the luxury of working from our home. We have hired a nanny to assist with some of the duties here. And yes, I would feel more than comfortable explaining that to anyone.

I guess that providing no education (by her own admission) and having a nanny are on the same ground. Thank you for enlightening me.

 

[bigredbill]

Perhaps. The real question is how the OP would feel about being required to prove that they are a fit parent to an often hostile state agency just because someone else called and said they weren't. Would they be happy or outraged to have home inspections and personally invasive questions? Would they react with, "oh, thank goodness someone cared enough about my kid to accuse me of being unfit?"

The OP is convinced she knows exactly what is happening in someone else's home. On the basis of things she is not present for, she has called in a report to CPS. If demanding other families be inspected is okay, I just want to know if it applies to her too. Maybe she's right. Maybe she's not. Either way, I hope her own live being in such upheaval would be okay with her.

First, the OP is a male. Secondly, I know exactly what is going on in the house because the mother has told us on many occasions.

 

[tlbwriter]

Perhaps. The real question is how the OP would feel about being required to prove that they are a fit parent to an often hostile state agency just because someone else called and said they weren't. Would they be happy or outraged to have home inspections and personally invasive questions? Would they react with, "oh, thank goodness someone cared enough about my kid to accuse me of being unfit?"

My point was, if the OP's concerns are completely invalid (as in the hypothetical example), will CPS even bother to investigate at all? Or will they just say "13 yr old not in school and not being homeschooled? Sorry, not an issue."

 

[luvmy3]

She's not unschooling. She is lazy. She doesn't want to take care of her son by herself during the day while her husband is at work.

And this is a woman you trusted as your nanny? Sorry, I think there is much more to your story and I'm a little suspicious of your motives in calling CPS. Ad yes, I think you overstepped regardless if I'm right or wrong about why you did.

 

[princessmom29]

Perhaps. The real question is how the OP would feel about being required to prove that they are a fit parent to an often hostile state agency just because someone else called and said they weren't. Would they be happy or outraged to have home inspections and personally invasive questions? Would they react with, "oh, thank goodness someone cared enough about my kid to accuse me of being unfit?"

The OP is convinced she knows exactly what is happening in someone else's home. On the basis of things she is not present for, she has called in a report to CPS. If demanding other families be inspected is okay, I just want to know if it applies to her too. Maybe she's right. Maybe she's not. Either way, I hope her own live being in such upheaval would be okay with her.

So we are not supposed to report any suspected abuse becuase people don't want to be investigated? I couldn't live with knowing a child was being abused and doing nothing, sorry. She was TOLD by the parent involved as well as the child that this neglect was going on. If she is not right then both parties have lied to her. What reason would they possibly have to do that? How much more evidence is needed before CPS can be called?

 

[bumbershoot]

My first thought when reading your FIRST post, was "you are taking the word of a 13 year old???????"

I grew up with a friend pulled from school in 1st grade to be "homeschooled" (what the parent did is what many call "unschooling" now) and she got ZERO education. Seriously we were about the same age and when I lost touch with her around high school age she could not read/write above a 1st grade level at that point.

I have to wonder what is going in with a child who doesn't learn anything when simply taken out of school. Either something MUCH bigger was going on at home, or there were other reasons that she was taken out (like she was never going to read well anyway).

Sounds like unschooling to me.

So not cool. We do not unschool as DS wouldn't like it (little dude had me getting him workbooks at 3... He likes knowing when he is learning and that he has learned something when we are done), but the unschoolers I have known, not just the soundbite ones who have nothing better to do but to talk to the press, are AMAZING.

Nope...not the case in most states...would make sense but don't EVER suggest that to homeschoolers--counting down 10, 9, 8...before I get blasted by a homeschooler about this....

Schools set down what they learn. They can then test those things with a reasonable expectation that the kids have had their bums in the seats while those subjects were discussed.

People have huge problems with teaching to the test, with having to follow exact, specific rules for what is taught.

But to have exact,standardized, tests for homeschoolers causes them to have to do exactly that.

Right now, if you tested DS in math, you would probably get grade level or just above. If you tested him for reading and writing, you would get below grade level, absolutely. if you tested him in animal knowledge he would shoot way up in the grades. Etc. But to judge HIM on that would be so wrong.

A standardized test at this point would be better done on ME and the curriculum we use, because that (apart from the animal knowledge) is determining the breadth of his info. By the time we have to declare him to the school district when he is 8 and starting 3rd grade, I feel confident that he will have evened out, growing into his reading, maybe slowing down with math (though his dad didn't, so maybe genetics will be strong there), etc.

In WA we can test or have him evaluated, and the latter is what we will do, though we don't have to actually give the records to anyone.

Understand your point, but we do know what is going on in this case. The mother has told us exactly what she is doing. She has owned up to the fact that there is no educating going on -- no text books, nothing online, no testing -- nothing. She wants her daughter to help raise their youngest son instead. This family has spent a large amount of time in our home in the past. We tried to encourage her to utilize a virtual school or some sort structred curriculum. She refused.

Things that would have been appropriate to mention in the FIRST post.

HUGE difference between taking classes via virtual school and doing NOTHING.

In the case where I called CPS, this person had kids that are 10-14 years old that CAN'T READ--not even a little bit--"because they don't want to read" Yeah, great idea...

It's just odd. They don't even read things on the screen while playing video games? And I'm not being funny. My cousin, who is NOW homeschooling her son since an aspergers-ish, ADHD-ish kid without a diagnosis or IEP is simply problem child and adisruption, and will be kicked out of third grade, says that her son refused all reading instruction until he realized it was easier to play video games if he could read. And this was while he was still attending school. And even now he will resist reading the simple readers for homeschool, but will download PDFs of instructions for complicated things and scour those for info. Some kids are hard to test!

 

[Christopher Robin]

First, the OP is a male. Secondly, I know exactly what is going on in the house because the mother has told us on many occasions.

Maybe she lied to you because it isnt your busienss and she wanted to get your panties in more of a bunch.

 

[Coconut36]

First, the OP is a male. Secondly, I know exactly what is going on in the house because the mother has told us on many occasions.

Initially you said the details came from the daughter not the mother

We recently found out from the daughter that no home schooling has taken place this fall, and that she is primarily responsible for taking care of her younger brother. My wife has had multiple discussions with the mother in the past, trying to advocate for the daughter, to no use. We have been essentially told to "butt out".

For all you know the mother thinks you guys are pushy, nosy busybodies and told a tale to get you to shut up or back off. I wouldn't be pleased to be told by someone how I needed to handle things, what I needed to to do or how to do it in regards to my child.

 

[Coconut36]

Maybe she lied to you because it isnt your busienss and she wanted to get your panties in more of a bunch.

Ha..just what I said too. I might do that if I felt someone was utterly out of line and I wanted to shut them up.

 

[kamik86]

It's just odd. They don't even read things on the screen while playing video games? And I'm not being funny. My cousin, who is NOW homeschooling her son since an aspergers-ish, ADHD-ish kid without a diagnosis or IEP is simply problem child and adisruption, and will be kicked out of third grade, says that her son refused all reading instruction until he realized it was easier to play video games if he could read. And this was while he was still attending school. And even now he will resist reading the simple readers for homeschool, but will download PDFs of instructions for complicated things and scour those for info. Some kids are hard to test!

Lol my husband is like this to an extent and he doesn't really have ADHD or aspergers (or if he does they are so mild no one would have thought to have him tested). He just doesn't really care to try to learn something unless he can see a concrete benefit. Even if its a dumb benefit (He honestly tried harder and had more respect for teachers that would tell him that he needed to learn this "because the state said I have to teach it to you." then ones that ignored the question, called it rude, or didn't have an answer.) (To be honest I had more respect for those teachers too since then at least the teacher was being honest with me, but I would still try hard because I was just like that)

 

[jodifla]

I think you did they right thing and I am very much an anti nanny state person. I feel the Government is in to much of our business as it is BUT in this case it was warranted.

They are neglecting their daughter. Neglect is a form of abuse and they are neglecting her education which is mandated by law.

I also think homeschoolers should have to take testing to prove they are teaching.

I'm also not a fan of calling CPS for every little thing, but the mother's repeated confessions that they aren't doing any type of schooling and she is just using her child for labor definitely needs a call to the state to be investigated.

 

[Mama Who]

First, the OP is a male. Secondly, I know exactly what is going on in the house because the mother has told us on many occasions.

Sorry, "he." Too much time on boards where everyone is female has given me the bad habit of using the feminine as the default.

While you know how you have interpreted what you've been told, you are not present, you have not witnessed the situation, you are on the outside, looking in.

Not all education looks the same. Traditional schoolers often don't even recognize some homeschooling methods as being education at all... which doesn't mean they aren't. Heck, half the time the reason the oddball approaches work is that the kid doesn't even notice. Sometimes the right approach for a kid involves some time off. Some experts recommend a "deschooling" period when a kid leaves a particularly toxic school experience.

You are misunderstanding what I asked, so let me be clear. Even if you are the best parent ever and your choices are without flaw, you would almost certainly find it intrusive for another parent to call you on them (notice how defensive you got about your nanny) to the extent of calling CPS. Do you really think that this issue was so severe and so clear cut that the child should potentially spend the next 5 years in a group home? That her mother is unfit and should be declared so by a court? Or is it possible that CPS was overkill for the situation? If someone thinks your child's education is substandard, do you want them to do the same?

 

[jodifla]

Ha..just what I said too. I might do that if I felt someone was utterly out of line and I wanted to shut them up.

Of course, the daughter is telling them the same thing.

Can't believe people think it's OK for a child not to have any schooling at all, and just be used to work.