Non-resort guests can not reserve FP+ early

[d1gitman]

But this assumes that our two hypothetical families do and purchase everything exactly the same with the only difference being the lodging. And if you consider the off-site guests who tour the resorts and purchase souvenirs etc. they are a 100% pure profit to Disney.

As I said originally, I don't doubt that Disney makes more from on-site guests in general, I just don't agree that it is true across the board in all instances.

i think your missing my point....yes, off site guests spend money on food, souveniers, etc..., no argument there. my point is that for lodging, Disney captures the actual lodging $$ for onsite guests but cannot from offsite, obviously. i'm not talking about food, souveniers or any other type of spending - just the resort booking.

so if you just look at hotel bookings...onsite guests have to yield more profit per person....I think the number of onsite resorts is proof of that.

additionally, I would venture to say that on site guests do spend more on average than offsite guests, otherwise Disney wouldn't be pushing the whole MM+ 'experience' and flat out saying it will generate more $$.

 

[Mkrop]

There are people who are opposed to any tracking device and/or nervous about wearing their information on their wrist. I'm not opposed to wearing a MB, but I do feel uncomfortable whenever see the evidence of tracking and I'm not thrilled that every company wants me to sign up for their rewards program to target advertisements. OTOH, I don't think it's going to make the vast majority of people turn away from Disney and it's going to increase their profits in the long run.

But, they are on shakier ground with FP+ because fewer and fewer people are booking vacations without some kind of research, and unhappy customers have so many public venues to air their complaints. I have a friend who is currently devoting her considerable energy to spreading the word throughout the internet that a particular company has poor customer service. When I had a truly terrible travel experience, I was more subdued and only wrote a scathing review on tripadvisor. I have also convinced someone to visit Disney based on one positive "status" on facebook. She loved her trip because of fastpass and she is reluctant to book a longer trip after hearing about FP+.

I don't think it's FP+ alone that could significantly hurt Disney's image in the long run. It's a combination --long lines and no effort to deal with ride-capacity issues at Epcot and DHS, technology glitches, cranky CMs who are unable to provide good customer service, poor food and merchandise, poor choices in new attraction development, and increased competition for vacation money.

This makes me sad, because for years I have always cited Disney as an example of a company that realized that making the customer happy = higher profits. When people were discussing how horrible it was that a local theme park was selling front of the line passes, I proudly contrasted that to my wonderful Disney, where everyone was treated like they were special when they entered the gates.

 

[Robo]

People resist change but eventually "the new way" becomes "the way it is" and things continue along.

I don't accept that, per se.

If that were the only situation, there would be no stories about "New Coke" and "Disney's Light Magic."

Arbitrary change can be arbitrarily changed AGAIN-
if there is a hue and cry against the ill-conceived plan.

These "negative threads" can serve to keep the info flowing
to both the consumers and the providers of the policies.

 

[redsbe]

"Arbitrary change can be arbitrarily changed AGAIN-
if there is a hue and cry against the ill-conceived plan."

FP+ was not an arbitrary change, WDW spent a long time, research, data and plenty of $$$$ in the system. It is part of a long term visitor and revenue strategy by WDW to change to visitor experience, good or bad depending on your view. FP+ and MB are here to stay, they may be changes to FP+ alloweed, the tiers, and how non-onsite guests are treated, but the system is not going way, like it or not.

 

[Mkrop]

"Arbitrary change can be arbitrarily changed AGAIN-
if there is a hue and cry against the ill-conceived plan."

FP+ was not an arbitrary change, WDW spent a long time, research, data and plenty of $$$$ in the system. It is part of a long term visitor and revenue strategy by WDW to change to visitor experience, good or bad depending on your view. FP+ and MB are here to stay, they may be changes to FP+ alloweed, the tiers, and how non-onsite guests are treated, but the system is not going way, like it or not.

Companies do tons of research all the time and it doesnt make them unsusceptible to a failure now and again. I think most of get that MBs are not going anywhere and most are ok with them...it is one portion, the FP+, that needs tweaking. And the only way WDW is going to know that is if people tell them. Just because WDW put something out there, even with tons of "research" doesnt mean we just have to grin and bear it. We dont have to be "thank you sir may I have another". If enough people complain, or they see revenues decrease they may change things, but if no one complains, they dont know they have unhappy guests. Or on the opposite end of things, if everyone is peachy keen with this idea, and the good feedback outweighs the bad, then the product will stay the same. But there is no harm in feedback or discussion!

 

[summerskye]

"Arbitrary change can be arbitrarily changed AGAIN-
if there is a hue and cry against the ill-conceived plan."

FP+ was not an arbitrary change, WDW spent a long time, research, data and plenty of $$$$ in the system. It is part of a long term visitor and revenue strategy by WDW to change to visitor experience, good or bad depending on your view. FP+ and MB are here to stay, they may be changes to FP+ alloweed, the tiers, and how non-onsite guests are treated, but the system is not going way, like it or not.

I don't think anyone is saying it will just disappear. But, I do think that the voices being broadcast will allow for tweaks and adjustments to the system. These tweaks could/would allow for a better experience for both the consumer and the provider.

 

[dayvewc]

i think your missing my point....yes, off site guests spend money on food, souveniers, etc..., no argument there. my point is that for lodging, Disney captures the actual lodging $$ for onsite guests but cannot from offsite, obviously. i'm not talking about food, souveniers or any other type of spending - just the resort booking.

so if you just look at hotel bookings...onsite guests have to yield more profit per person....I think the number of onsite resorts is proof of that.

additionally, I would venture to say that on site guests do spend more on average than offsite guests, otherwise Disney wouldn't be pushing the whole MM+ 'experience' and flat out saying it will generate more $$.

I caught the point, actually. And I will conceded that if you look only at resort booking Disney captures more profit from people who stay onsite than offsite. I will even grant that it is likely that the average onsite guest provides Disney with a larger profit. What I disagreed with (and I think you missed my point there) was the blanket statement you originally made that ALL onsite guests provide more profit to Disney than offsite guests. I'm just saying that there are instances and scenarios where that is not true.

 

[summerskye]

Companies do tons of research all the time and it doesnt make them unsusceptible to a failure now and again. I think most of get that MBs are not going anywhere and most are ok with them...it is one portion, the FP+, that needs tweaking. And the only way WDW is going to know that is if people tell them. Just because WDW put something out there, even with tons of "research" doesnt mean we just have to grin and bear it. We dont have to be "thank you sir may I have another". If enough people complain, or they see revenues decrease they may change things, but if no one complains, they dont know they have unhappy guests. Or on the opposite end of things, if everyone is peachy keen with this idea, and the good feedback outweighs the bad, then the product will stay the same. But there is no harm in feedback or discussion!

Well said !

 

[ArwenMarie]

The average onsite customer probably generates more profit than the average offsite customer. But Disney still needs offsite customers. If they didn't, they would have turned the parks into resort-only.

It's finding the balance that is going to be key for them with this. It could end up that same-day kiosks are the right balance.

 

[erv1216]

HI all. Ive read a couple of these pages but just wanted to confirm. We have AP (Premium, not that it will make a difference, but just throwing it out there...LOL) the only way to get early FP+ is staying onsite, right? As of now there is no way of prebooking if we are staying off site?

Thanks!!! We are going up on Friday. I know of the crowds but whatever...we are taking it easy and just having fun. we go up numerous times throughtout the year so if we dont get to do something, oh well...we will do it next time. Im there to have fun and just be IN DISNEY. Being in disney beats any day back home!!! LOL

 

[nabi]

I don't accept that, per se. If that were the only situation, there would be no stories about "New Coke" and "Disney's Light Magic." Arbitrary change can be arbitrarily changed AGAIN- if there is a hue and cry against the ill-conceived plan. These "negative threads" can serve to keep the info flowing to both the consumers and the providers of the policies.

Surveys help too. We were sure to complete our from our last trip. Disney has undergone numerous changes through the year. Someone beginning their Disney journey may be more accepting of the new policies and methods. If there are enough new people, maybe the differences will be more accepted than rejected. I'm willing to give it a chance to work, knowing it won't suit our trip type perfectly every time (meaning on site or off/ villas or other accommodations). I'm just glad the commando type touring isn't the only way to go for us...too tiring.

 

[Minniesgal]

I don't accept that, per se. If that were the only situation, there would be no stories about "New Coke" and "Disney's Light Magic." Arbitrary change can be arbitrarily changed AGAIN- if there is a hue and cry against the ill-conceived plan. These "negative threads" can serve to keep the info flowing to both the consumers and the providers of the policies.

Disagree entirely, the capital investment and the impact on reputation alone will mean no way back for FP+. The only way forward is to make it better

 

[Minniesgal]

HI all. Ive read a couple of these pages but just wanted to confirm. We have AP (Premium, not that it will make a difference, but just throwing it out there...LOL) the only way to get early FP+ is staying onsite, right? As of now there is no way of prebooking if we are staying off site? Thanks!!! We are going up on Friday. I know of the crowds but whatever...we are taking it easy and just having fun. we go up numerous times throughtout the year so if we dont get to do something, oh well...we will do it next time. Im there to have fun and just be IN DISNEY. Being in disney beats any day back home!!! LOL

As far as I heard If you have AP and a magic band you can book FP+ 60 days from today subject to a maximum number of days. You need to get the magic band though.

 

[rustyanchor]

I know it stinks, but I think things will even out over time and it won't be as bad as you're expecting. And honestly (and I'm saying this as someone who has stayed both onsite and off), I don't think the EMH alone were enough of a "perk" to justify the continually rising prices that WDW charges for their resorts, so in that sense I'm glad they're doing it. I would say there are still a number of options available to offsite guests, such as booking their first night at a Disney resort (the values are sometimes as cheap as $70-something per night); buying APs; traveling during off-peak season (we always go during Sept-Nov and Jan-March and rarely have really NEEDED FPs, we just got them for convenience); and arriving at the parks early and using touring plans. I'm guessing it won't be as hard as you think to book the FP+ on the day of, either.

 

[JimmyV]

My point is that for lodging, Disney captures the actual lodging $$ for onsite guests but cannot from offsite, obviously. i'm not talking about food, souveniers or any other type of spending - just the resort booking.

so if you just look at hotel bookings...onsite guests have to yield more profit per person....I think the number of onsite resorts is proof of that.

But capturing more lodging revenue can only be done if WDW can squeeze down the number of vacant rooms (and there aren't many), or raise the base cost of the lodging. The change to the FP+ system might be seen as a way to get more people into Disney's own resorts. But is bumping occupancy from 95% to 98% really meaningful? Otherwise, the only way to raise revenue is to raise rates and eliminate or decrease the frequency of cut-rate specials like 30% off or Free Dining. I fear that is coming, though it is hard to imagine the Poly going up from $600 per night.

Companies do tons of research all the time and it doesnt make them unsusceptible to a failure now and again. I think most of get that MBs are not going anywhere and most are ok with them...it is one portion, the FP+, that needs tweaking. And the only way WDW is going to know that is if people tell them. Just because WDW put something out there, even with tons of "research" doesnt mean we just have to grin and bear it. We dont have to be "thank you sir may I have another". If enough people complain, or they see revenues decrease they may change things, but if no one complains, they dont know they have unhappy guests. Or on the opposite end of things, if everyone is peachy keen with this idea, and the good feedback outweighs the bad, then the product will stay the same. But there is no harm in feedback or discussion!

Well said. Large companies often do very stupid things. Many times, change for the sake of change is a goal unto itself. Silly corporate-speak words like "change agent" and "thought leader" are now the norm, and employees get brainwashed into believing that change is good and that they cannot accept the premise that everything is just fine and nothing needs to change. So some aggressive 32 year-old comes up with the whole MB idea as a way to increase profit and everyone rejoices. But it is possible that the emperor has no clothes. We shall see. I don't see how these changes can raise billions in revenue, which is what it will take to rationalize these changes. But two things will drive the future. Realized revenue and consumer reaction. We cannot control the former, but we can control the latter.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm guessing it won't be as hard as you think to book the FP+ on the day of, either.

We shall soon see. It was mentioned (much) earlier in this thread that visitors to WDW are around 50/50 in terms of On Site vs. Off Site. If that is anywhere close to accurate, I cannot imagine what the rush to the FP kiosk at Town Square will look like. Will make the Toy Story Mania Death March look like child's play. Again, assuming that Off Site folks don't get some sort of pre-arrival head start.

 

[rustyanchor]

We shall soon see. It was mentioned (much) earlier in this thread that visitors to WDW are around 50/50 in terms of On Site vs. Off Site. If that is anywhere close to accurate, I cannot imagine what the rush to the FP kiosk at Town Square will look like. Will make the Toy Story Mania Death March look like child's play. Again, assuming that Off Site folks don't get some sort of pre-arrival head start.

Well, if that's the case, then I have faith that they will work out the kinks somehow eventually. They're trying something new on a HUGE scale, so there are going to be problems and not everything will run smoothly at first. BUT if someone has the worst expectations (as the OP seems to) then things will usually turn out to be better than you think they will be.

 

[JimmyV]

They're trying something new on a HUGE scale, so there are going to be problems and not everything will run smoothly at first.

Agree. I just don't see how the limited number of kiosks intended for same-day use can possibly handle the crowds. Think about the Legacy FP system. Each attraction that had FP machines had many. And there were still lines. Think about how you used to get FPs at Soarin', or Everest, or TSM. Many machines, and still a wait to get them. Now imagine those people lining up into a single line. Whoa!

 

[ArwenMarie]

But capturing more lodging revenue can only be done if WDW can squeeze down the number of vacant rooms (and there aren't many), or raise the base cost of the lodging. The change to the FP+ system might be seen as a way to get more people into Disney's own resorts. But is bumping occupancy from 95% to 98% really meaningful?

I don't think they are at 95%, more like 80% from what I have read, and that's probably inflated in my opinion.

If it is 80% and estimate roughly $250 a room in extra revenue per night for an occupied room, they are leaving about half a billion dollars on the table every year.

 

[xie]

We shall soon see. It was mentioned (much) earlier in this thread that visitors to WDW are around 50/50 in terms of On Site vs. Off Site. If that is anywhere close to accurate, I cannot imagine what the rush to the FP kiosk at Town Square will look like. Will make the Toy Story Mania Death March look like child's play. Again, assuming that Off Site folks don't get some sort of pre-arrival head start.

I read that and immediately I had this vision of a Fast Pass kiosk outside the gate that opens at 5am (or 3 hours before rope drop, whenever it may be) so all the offsiters could get in line to book their passes for the day, and the line outside it went for miles.

I have a very vivid imagination.