Non-resort guests can not reserve FP+ early

[redsbe]

"How many offsite guests will be turned off by a system that more than ever rewards arriving at rope drop? "

You are assuming offsite guests will not be able to book FP+ in advance

"Offsite guests will now be competing for a fraction of the FPs that they used to since so many can be booked in advance."
You have no idea as to the number of FP+ held for on site visitors only versus off site, versus day of bookings.

If I get to the park and my options are the Great Movie Ride, and the Indiana Jones show, topped with Star Tours, I'm going to feel ripped off. Telling me I could have gotten up early or stayed onsite wont make me feel better because I have past visits to compare it to. How long before returning guests get that 'it just isn't the same' feeling? Of course, Disney can do whatever they like, it's their park, but I would expect that someone in a suit has tried to forecast guest reaction. I suspect repeat visitor numbers will suffer. On the other hand, perhaps I'm the only one that wont pay Disney prices to stand in line all day."

Or a number of traditional off site visitors will book on site trips?

And given the 120 minute waits for TSM and other rides, it has been clear for sometime that many WDW visitors are willing to wait in lines all day!

"It's been my thought all along that the end goal is to charge for extra FPs, not unlike what Universal does for offsite guests. They will say they are better than Universal since off site guests with Disney get three free FPs, while off site Universal guests get none."

Unknown, but very possible as one thing is sure people will pay for more "opportunity" when that choice is given to them.

 

[morethananyonex]

"FP- was as equal as it could get, IMO. "

In your view perhaps, but good chance that is not shared by many other visitors or WDW (especially given the number of positive FP+ reviews already posting here).

We can easily assume from our own experiences and use that FP- worked great for us and thus was "fair" - who knows if the average WDW visitor feels the same?

No, I'm not talking about from my viewpoint. There were many times my family arrived to a park in the afternoon or evening and could not get FP- (specifically at Epcot and DHS). I never considered that unfair, it's our fault we didn't arrive earlier.

The system was very equal opportunity and fair. If you had a park ticket, you had the same opportunity to get FP+ as everyone else. It didn't depend on where you are staying, it didn't depend on much planning you did, it didn't depend on the kind of phone and phone plan you have, it didn't depend on you being from the US or not, and it didn't depend on you having the ability to stick to plans you made from home.

I don't deny that FP+ is easier for many families, but looking at the system as a whole FP- had far less barriers and was much simpler for the majority to use.

 

[jonmar]

"How many offsite guests will be turned off by a system that more than ever rewards arriving at rope drop? "

You are assuming offsite guests will not be able to book FP+ in advance

"Offsite guests will now be competing for a fraction of the FPs that they used to since so many can be booked in advance."
You have no idea as to the number of FP+ held for on site visitors only versus off site, versus day of bookings.

If I get to the park and my options are the Great Movie Ride, and the Indiana Jones show, topped with Star Tours, I'm going to feel ripped off. Telling me I could have gotten up early or stayed onsite wont make me feel better because I have past visits to compare it to. How long before returning guests get that 'it just isn't the same' feeling? Of course, Disney can do whatever they like, it's their park, but I would expect that someone in a suit has tried to forecast guest reaction. I suspect repeat visitor numbers will suffer. On the other hand, perhaps I'm the only one that wont pay Disney prices to stand in line all day."

Or a number of traditional off site visitors will book on site trips?

And given the 120 minute waits for TSM and other rides, it has been clear for sometime that many WDW visitors are willing to wait in lines all day!

"It's been my thought all along that the end goal is to charge for extra FPs, not unlike what Universal does for offsite guests. They will say they are better than Universal since off site guests with Disney get three free FPs, while off site Universal guests get none."

Unknown, but very possible as one thing is sure people will pay for more "opportunity" when that choice is given to them.

Yes I am assuming off site will not get to reserve in advance. No, I do have an idea of how many FPs are held back for onsite advance bookings. I was told by three different CMs that 50% of the daily allotment are held back for onsite guests. If that is accurate, off site guests that do not arrive at rope drop to book their three FPs are going to be SOL.

Maybe typical off site visitors will stay on site to gain access to advance booking. I wont. I mentioned in another thread that I ventured onsite this past trip to do just that. I paid Formula 1 Grand Prix weekend rates for a dive. So again, the repeat visitor thing comes to mind.

Disney, like Apple, Cunard Line, the previously mentioned Formula 1, Rolex etc, are at the pinnacle of their respective industries and are the top brands. You can get away with charging luxury prices if you deliver a second to none experience. Like I said, if the 'it wasn't as good as last time' feelings start to creep in, return visits will suffer. Stripping away services and experiences while ever increasing costs is not a great recipe.

 

[redsbe]

"Stripping away services and experiences while ever increasing costs is not a great recipe. "

Yet some visitors, and perhaps many new visitors, will say that with MB and FP+ WDW is adding services and experiences - much depends on your view.

WDW is very good at collecting data on the visitor experience as recorded and via surveys, MB and FP+ were developed and will be adapted based on that data. They are aiming to change the WDW park visitor experience to a new modern model - only time will tell whether it is better or not and whether it attracts and holds more visitors.

 

[jonmar]

"Stripping away services and experiences while ever increasing costs is not a great recipe. "

Yet some visitors, and perhaps many new visitors, will say that with MB and FP+ WDW is adding services and experiences - much depends on your view.

I thought the MBs themselves worked great. I only had one minor technical issue. I don't see how they are adding services and experiences though? Reserving in advance? Changing FPs on the go? Opening my door with my wrist?

What am I missing that is so great? I can think of a lot of negative aspects, but few positives.

 

[Brian Noble]

Reserving in advance?

As a (soon-to-be-retired) Fastpass commando, I consider this a genuine benefit. I was not particularly fond of criss-crossing the park to pick up FPs at the "right time" to line things up.

 

[jonmar]

As a (soon-to-be-retired) Fastpass commando, I consider this a genuine benefit. I was not particularly fond of criss-crossing the park to pick up FPs at the "right time" to line things up.

I don't disagree, but I'd rather criss cross and get to use FP more than three times, for the same ride than be limited to three non repeaters booked in advance.

 

[magicbob]

"Stripping away services and experiences while ever increasing costs is not a great recipe. "

Yet some visitors, and perhaps many new visitors, will say that with MB and FP+ WDW is adding services and experiences - much depends on your view.

WDW is very good at collecting data on the visitor experience as recorded and via surveys, MB and FP+ were developed and will be adapted based on that data. They are aiming to change the WDW park visitor experience to a new modern model - only time will tell whether it is better or not and whether it attracts and holds more visitors.

redsbe, the format of your quotes and replies will be easier to read if you use the "quote" button in the lower right corner of the post you are quoting.

 

[BudgieMama]

As a soon to be first time visitor, who was becoming a bit terrified by guide books talking about needing to run to certain FP points at RD, in a park I've never set foot in before and therefore can't navigate as quickly as returning guests, I'm relieved DH and I should be able to arrive with 3 FP+ in hand and not have to stress about running anyway to guarantee anything.

I can understand that for people who used a lot of FP in the past, know the route and choose to stay offsite, that will be a pain, but I think it makes it easier for new visitors. Even if they stay offsite, they visit one place to make the reservations and queue once to do so (if it all works to plan)... that seems to me to level the playing field in terms of making the system accessible to the most guests.

As I've never been willing to pay for quick access at any of the UK theme parks I've spent many hours in, the novelty of being able to get quick access to a couple of rides will be very cool.

 

[Planogirl]

When did travelers have to worry so much about being "fair"? Is it fair that I visited the Museum of Natural History more than once during a trip to DC? The place was crowded and I only added to the crowds. Is it fair that I saw Star Wars several times when it was new and popular? I took tickets that other people couldn't get because I showed up early.

This notion of fair is pretty but not really relevant to a traveler. I doubt that Disney is really concerned about what is fair either. Their logical goal is to maximize profit through various means.

 

[Networth]

Disney is in the entertainment/hospitality business and you know what the biggest concern for a company like that? Guest satisfaction. Disney has done its work brought in their market analysis people, called on their statisticians, and consulted their accountants, and have concluded MM+/FP+ will increase the experience of their average guest. Which will show in their books and quarterly postings. So wether your an opponent or proponent of the new system it is here to stay either way. The real question is what about the system will evolve and change.

 

[morethananyonex]

Disney is in the entertainment/hospitality business and you know what the biggest concern for a company like that? Guest satisfaction. Disney has done its work brought in their market analysis people, called on their statisticians, and consulted their accountants, and have concluded MM+/FP+ will increase the experience of their average guest. Which will show in their books and quarterly postings. So wether your an opponent or proponent of the new system it is here to stay either way. The real question is what about the system will evolve and change.

Are you implying that it's not possible for Disney or any other company to make a mistake if they did their research and came to a certain conclusion?

 

[Networth]

I'm implying most companies don't invest $1,000,000,000 in something they think will fail. Time will tell and I will gladly eat my words if I am wrong but as a shareholder I LOVE this idea. As a guest meh get rid of the tiers. Also notice the poster above, a first timer who loves the idea. Do you think Disney has become as successful as they are by being correct more of the time or by being wrong most of the time about their target audience. Do you think people on these forums complaining account for even 1% of Disney's revenue?

 

[morethananyonex]

I'm implying most companies don't invest $1,000,000,000 in something they think will fail. Time will tell and I will gladly eat my words if I am wrong but as a shareholder I LOVE this idea. As a guest meh get rid of the tiers. Also notice the poster above, a first timer who loves the idea. Do you think Disney has become as successful as they are by being correct much more of the time than they are wrong. Do you think people on these forums complaining account for even 1% of Disney's revenue?

I'm not saying they're wrong and I don't necessarily disagree with you, I think first timers will love this, but I do disagree with the notion that just because Disney invests huge amounts of money into something it will be successful. California Adventure and EuroDisney anyone? Even Magic Bands themselves created some unforeseen issues.

 

[Networth]

Any new product will have issues. Your right EuroDisney IMO was and is one of the worst ideas they ever implemented. I have been hoping for years they would sell/lease it off to another corporation like they do with Tokyo/Sea. I just think we have to assume they will be right with the system in the long run and need to be more focused on what needs to change instead of complaining about the system as a whole. Last I like California Adventures numbers are up Do you mean when they first opened it?

 

[jonmar]

I'm implying most companies don't invest $1,000,000,000 in something they think will fail. Time will tell and I will gladly eat my words if I am wrong but as a shareholder I LOVE this idea. As a guest meh get rid of the tiers. Also notice the poster above, a first timer who loves the idea. Do you think Disney has become as successful as they are by being correct more of the time or by being wrong most of the time about their target audience. Do you think people on these forums complaining account for even 1% of Disney's revenue?

Of course they don't think it will fail. They think it's a genius way to set up a new revenue stream while being able to claim they still offer more than the other guys. I would caution it isn't about being right or wrong most of the time. One monumental error is all it takes. Having said that, Disney is about as resilient a brand as one can find. If they adjust FP+ according to guest concerns, it should be fine. I for one will be waiting to see what the final product looks like before planning my next trip.

 

[morethananyonex]

Any new product will have issues. Your right EuroDisney IMO was and is one of the worst ideas they ever implemented. I have been hoping for years they would sell/lease it off to another corporation like they do with Tokyo/Sea. I just think we have to assume they will be right with the system in the long run and need to be more focused on what needs to change instead of complaining about the system as a whole. Last I like California Adventures numbers are up Do you mean when they first opened it?

Yes, when they first opened it. They had to sink tons of money into it to fix their mistake.

As for focusing on what needs to change, for some people that is the system as a whole . Personally, I like the ability to book the FP instead of walking to get them, I like selecting my own time, but that's where my positivity about FP+ ends.

 

[kagmypts]

We are a family with 4 kids. When we travel other places than WDW…we have to get a room that has 2 beds and a pull out. I understand that we need a bit more space, but we are able to get that room at regular hotels for about $30 more than a standard room. My complaint with WDW is that I have to pay hundreds more per night for a room to fit my family. If it can be done at hundreds of hotels throughout the US with a minimal price increase, I feel like WDW should be able to offer a room at a bit more than a standard room price instead of making it double or triple the price.
I don't plan my family size around my WDW accommodations…thats just a crazy statement.

I just wanted to add that I share these exact sentiments.

Its not just the larger properties that are 3 or 4 times the cost either. Dh and I have traded our 2 weeks of Marriott Aruba for Orlando in October. Normally for us when we don't do Aruba we usually stay at either 4 Seasons or similar .We're doing Sabal Palms and Lakeshore Reserve. By anyone's standard LR is a 6* property. We're getting a full luxury one bdrm villa. I compared the standard prices for LR with the same thing at the Grand Floridian villas(which would be the only villa comparable to LR at Disney) for the same time frame. If we were paying for it our 1bdrm would be $199 a night. (which I must admit is a bargain). On the opposite end of the spectrum however is the GF 1 bdrm which is $800 a night. Even a regular deluxe room there is insanely priced imho and about twice that of the other 6*'s in Orlando

We are not by any means tightwads, but if I'm paying those prices I'm going back to Anguilla or the South Pacific where for that money I can get a private pool or over the water bungalow.

I can understand the draw for some of staying on property if you have kids but for adults staying off property with equal or more luxurious amenities for a fraction of the cost (even with a throwaway room added in) seems like a no brainer at least for our tastes and preferences. I can understand a price differential for onsite ( although im not sure that even at the same price for our preferences we'd want onsite since we look for more r and r on vacation and peace and quiet), but 4 times the price actually shocked me.

We priced out Disney accommodations that were an acceptable arrangement for our family of 5. It was going to cost over $750 a night. With tax, it was going to be over $5,000 for a one week stay! For that kind of money, we will be staying in a Four Season in an exotic location!

How many offsite guests will be turned off by a system that more than ever rewards arriving at rope drop? Offsite guests will now be competing for a fraction of the FPs that they used to since so many can be booked in advance.

If I get to the park and my options are the Great Movie Ride, and the Indiana Jones show, topped with Star Tours, I'm going to feel ripped off. Telling me I could have gotten up early or stayed onsite wont make me feel better because I have past visits to compare it to. How long before returning guests get that 'it just isn't the same' feeling? Of course, Disney can do whatever they like, it's their park, but I would expect that someone in a suit has tried to forecast guest reaction. I suspect repeat visitor numbers will suffer. On the other hand, perhaps I'm the only one that wont pay Disney prices to stand in line all day.

It's been my thought all along that the end goal is to charge for extra FPs, not unlike what Universal does for offsite guests. They will say they are better than Universal since off site guests with Disney get three free FPs, while off site Universal guests get none.

I agree with the bolded. Our family is not going to over $300 a day to stand in line. If Disney wanted to lock our family in a particular plan/destination before we leave our house, they succeeded. We opted to cancel our annual Disney trip, and we have booked a week at a dude ranch in Colorado!

ETA - Disney is free to do whatever they please, but customers are also free to react how they please. Until Disney allows off-site guests to pre-book FPs, we will not be returning. I am disappointed that we will be missing out on another trip to Disney (we all LOVE it there), but the world is a huge place. There are plenty of other fun and exciting things to discover!

 

[Mkrop]

Your argument works both ways. It is unfair that a paying guest can't ride something one time because other paying guests rode it say twice(taking that one additional spot). My point was this system is more fair most ways. The people complaining are those that feel they had a right to ride "insert attraction" 4 times because they paid for it, and got their first otherwise Disney has "cheated" them. News flash every other guest paid as well but maybe couldn't/didn't want to treat their vacation like operation black hawk down.
Explain to me how a special needs family who can't make rope drop should get less for their money than a family who can commando the park. You can complain and say first come first serve but thats not always "fair" and thats not the way it will be from now on, thank god. As for off-site getting screwed, they still get 3 FP's, they still can arrive at rope drop, they still can stay till the park closes. How is that getting screwed? At least with the new system EVERY guest will get to ride something at least once. I would love to know how that is not more "fair" than first come first serve mentality.

Why could they not get to ride the ride if they got there early I have been at all different time of years and if you were there at rope drop you could get a FP. They did not run out to noon or later. If I never got there until later than I knew my chance was diminished. And now it moves the rush to get FP+ to the 60 day mark, it is still a first come first serve system, just on the computer or app. If I cant be on the computer or dont own one at the 60 day mark then I am missing out just like those families who could not make rope drop. All the FP+s might be gone or the ones that would work for my family JUST like those who could not make rope drop. What if I am unaware of this magical 60 day mark and I decide as a newbie to go to WDW in 2weeks, I am staying onsite. I am not getting the same FP+ pool of times and selections as you are who can make yours at 60 days. In FP- we were all the same at 9am on park arrival day, now only SOME of us are the same on the 60 day mark. You have NO idea if everyone will get to ride these rides at least once ESPECIALLY those who are offsite. When we were at DHS at the beg of Dec FPs ran out for TSMM at 9:25am, and that was just with onsite guests on the system and some people tiered. So the offsiter could get screwed if they get there at 9:26 or later and not be able to ride TSMM even once...once again how is that fair. They get 3 FP+s but for what rides

We have never commando the park, we could not, we had a child who had low endurance due to hypotonia, he just didnt have the endurance when he was younger...now at 11 he is much better, thank you PT and OT. We never used a GAC, we didnt feel the need, he could stand in lines and we utilized FP-s appropriately, but there were many days we could not stay until closing even with a break. You know what I never expected to get more than a family who could go all day. We missed many fireworks and other stuff in the evening bc he could not make it.

I love how rope drop and going commando is now your sugggestions and perfectly acceptable for the offsiter, but it wasnt when there were FP- for other guests.

You know you can buy tickets ahead of time for the movies but as we found out at Frozen 2 days after Christmas, if you dont get there early (first come first serve) then you would get good seats or seats together. We all paid the same to see that movie. Maybe I should have told the movie theater it was unfair that we almost didnt get to sit together bc my DH did not believe it would be crowded despite the fact we bought tickets on line.

"
Yes we do not know for sure what WDW plans are for FP+ access to off site visitors so for the time being lets stop assuming current FP+ will be unfair to off site visitors

But it is UNFAIR right now...I hate when people keep talking about the future when there are people RIGHT NOW trying to plan or are at WDW dealing with this product as it is NOW. And right now it is UNFAIR to the offsiter.

"
Not always true as even arriving at RD, FP- would often be gone as soon as mid morning, meaning those RD drop visitors would still not have every opportunity to ride using FP and without using standby, especially on peak crowd days or shorter hours or on travel days.

Ironically enough, in all my trips in all different times of year, I have NEVER seen TSMM run out as early as it did while FP+ was being utilized. 9:25am gone! And Soarin was gone by 10am.

No, I'm not talking about from my viewpoint. There were many times my family arrived to a park in the afternoon or evening and could not get FP- (specifically at Epcot and DHS). I never considered that unfair, it's our fault we didn't arrive earlier.

The system was very equal opportunity and fair. If you had a park ticket, you had the same opportunity to get FP+ as everyone else. It didn't depend on where you are staying, it didn't depend on much planning you did, it didn't depend on the kind of phone and phone plan you have, it didn't depend on you being from the US or not, and it didn't depend on you having the ability to stick to plans you made from home.

I don't deny that FP+ is easier for many families, but looking at the system as a whole FP- had far less barriers and was much simpler for the majority to use.

Disney is in the entertainment/hospitality business and you know what the biggest concern for a company like that? Guest satisfaction. Disney has done its work brought in their market analysis people, called on their statisticians, and consulted their accountants, and have concluded MM+/FP+ will increase the experience of their average guest. Which will show in their books and quarterly postings. So wether your an opponent or proponent of the new system it is here to stay either way. The real question is what about the system will evolve and change.

Think you need Marty Sklar's book, WDW has made blunders over the years. This could be a pricey blunder that pushes some guests away or could be the best thing they have ever done. Just bc they are corporate excutives that work for WDW doesnt make them unable to make mistakes, if that was the case then why did some people already get fired over this project, why did Iger put a freeze on things and wasnt a happy camper.

 

[mefordis]

Are you implying that it's not possible for Disney or any other company to make a mistake if they did their research and came to a certain conclusion?

New Coke - 1985.