Non-monetary reality check for purchasers.

[JessLCH]

We are brand new BLT owners with our first upcoming stay there next month. We had rented and stayed in DVC villas 4 times (Wilderness Lodge 2x, Grand Californian Villas, and Saratoga Springs) before buying resale. Our rooms at SS were unsatisfactory. The first room smelled like mildew/ mold very strongly and we demanded to change rooms. the second room was also mildewy smelling but slighty better. They did a deep clean which just masked the smell for a day. There was not much more we could do as point renters. We dealt with it but it put a damper on our stay and we spent as little time as possible in the room. That said, we never had any problems at VWL or GCV. But I think we bought in understanding the overall product. It is an EXCELLENT idea to try before you buy. We much prefer condo style resorts or timeshares than hotel rooms wherever we travel.

 

[SarahInMN]

But I think we bought in understanding the overall product. It is an EXCELLENT idea to try before you buy. We much prefer condo style resorts or timeshares than hotel rooms wherever we travel.

Absolutely - it is all about what you like as a family and what your expectations are. We love the king bed, separate shower/tub, washer & dryer, and the kitchen (love heating up a leisurely breakfast ) in the DVC 1 bedrooms. We discussed staying at a "regular" deluxe for part or all of an upcoming trip, and just couldn't give up the king bed and the kitchen. I kind of like not having to worry about housekeeping and picking up every day for the mousekeepers. Again, that's just us!

 

[Sammie]

SSR opened in 2004, so those buildings are not that old and it just went through a room rehab.

I do agree with Crisi that the deluxe resorts are better maintained than DVC or maybe the wear and tear on them is less. I doubt many people move furniture around in a hotel room like they seem to want to do in the villas.

Also there is no kitchen so less food mess which contributes to the majority of stains. Seems those that stay in villas don't know how to clean up a stain after they make it. I know some do, but way too many don't.

Also I would be willing to guess people over crowd the villas more than a hotel room especially the one and two bedroom villas due to the living room space and master bedroom.

 

[taaren]

I would hazard a guess that the main reason for the difference between DVC/timeshare upkeep and hotel upkeep and maintenance issues is simply the occupancy rates. (A bit of insight on comes from being the child of someone who was the head of an engineering/maintenance department of a luxury resort hotel for a few decades.)

The hotels have the exact same maintenance issues, perhaps a bit less since they don't get the same wear and tear. But when it comes right down to it, outside of holidays/peak times, most hotels have a lot of empty rooms sitting, and have lots of time for the engineering departments to work on fixing the broken stuff.

Timeshares, especially ones like DVC that have full occupancy year round, do not have that. They need to work on issues when guests are in the room or in the very few hours in between, and they are not going to be addressed as fully. We own another timeshare, and there is a marked difference in what time of year we use it, because it follows peak seasons, and toward the end of those seasons the rooms look more tired and more things are broken. When we go before peak season, when the rooms have been sitting empty for months (our resort has a lot of unsold weeks in spring and fall and we've gone and have the place practically to ourselves), the rooms look great and everything works.

Unless you want them to keep more points out of the available pool to book, (and not be turned over to CRO, etc) which isn't really fiscally feasible, its not really going to change ...

 

[Dean]

We just got back from our 'trial visit' to SSR & BWV. It was a blast. Best family vacation (only so far) that we've taken and it was a great getaway.

BEFORE you jump in, please keep in mind a point that is, in my opinion, understressed in the wash of financial debate here.

IT IS DIFFERENT FROM BUYING INTO THE HOTELS. You are actually buying into a condo. A condo that is, depending on the age of the resort, 20 yrs + old.

It is definitely a 'condo' type experience. My family regularly rents condos. I am not fazed by a sink backup, a laundry machine backup, etc. I stayed in a hotel treehouse in Nicaragua without electricity and running water on my honeymoon and had a blast (my new husband got a little testy...) so we've seen them all. But on some level, since it is Disney, you expect even a condo to feel 'perfect' and surreal. I'm hear to tell you that they are just condos. With amazing pools.

We stayed in a one bedroom at SSR and one at BWK. They were lovely, spacious, fun, easy layouts. They were definitely NOT new. A few cupboards/drawers hung funny, the molding in the halls was crumbly by the base, the appliances in SSR were old. Our laundry machine backed up and soaked about 50% of the carpet in the whole unit one night at about 10pm, but our babies were asleep so we called engineering, told them to be quiet, and put on our flipflops. The night of arrival at BWV our sink was leaking so they wanted to get in to plumb. They said it could wait, and once again, the babies were asleep so we told them to come back in the am.

Despite not being a hotel, we were constantly visited by mousekeepers, maintenance, engineering, etc. It was comic--at one point we had four separate people in a row knock at the door (apparently someone with a similar unit number had been requesting a bunch of things, and they thought we were checking out several days when we were not).

That said, the service is great. We were given our choice between cribs and pack n plays, given sheets, and when the laundry machine flooded they gave us a gazillion towels for the floor and the engineer was there nearly immediately. They offered us a new unit but our babies had fallen asleep for the night so there was no way we were moving.

HOWEVER, the engineers left muddy footprints all over our kitchen, as well as taking the trash cans out from under the sink and leaving them out in the kitchen (with kids, not a great idea). When I called to ask if they were still in the middle of the job or had finished, they offered to send mousekeeping... in my opinion, the engineer probably should have had them swing by after he/she finished since he/she clearly was not cleaning up after his/herself. I told them not to bother and cleaned it with a towel. We had plenty of towels since it was just two adults but if we had been staying longer, using one of the towels to clean up the floor after the plumber would have rankled a bit.

The housekeepers came by at 8am on checkout day to clean. She had us put the privacy placard on the door while we finished getting ready (we were out by 8:45 am). On on hand, annoying. On the other hand, both of our rooms were ready when we arrived around noon/1pm so their quick service also allowed us to check in early so on balance we'll take it!

There was no white glove treatment outside of the lobby--but everyone was very nice.

We had a blast, we're bought in, etc... and SSR is an older building, and so is BWK, but we just wanted to ensure people know they are getting condos, and in many cases older condos. NOT hotel rooms. My husband likened the repairs to 'bandaids'.

Just wanted potential purchasers to understand that you are really really not buying into a perpetual hotel. You are buying an interest in a condo building with no control over any given unit, and if you are expecting pixie dust and perfect order you should revise your expectations accordingly. I am not sure about other timeshares in the area, so DVC still may be a cut above, but these are the kind of issues that can sink a vacation for people that are expecting a first-rate hotel.

I think the differences between a hotel and timeshare are addressed fairly regularly, certainly enough that anyone doing adequate investigation here on DIS would have the opportunity to have the information. Certainly a timeshare is different than a hotel and even one timeshare different from another. IMO there are some inherent differences, some artificial differences and some unnecessary ones. As Bill addressed, DVC is not necessarily keeping up their end of the bargain on the maint/refurbishment side. For example, if OKW were a Marriott, it would have completed (or be close to) 2 full refurbishments by now instead of just having completed one fairly recently. However, I do believe that many (? most) complaint thread's here on DIS are centered more on lack of knowledge, understanding of such differences with/without unreasonable expectations.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Agreed - we love being able to get a 1 bedroom because it has a king bed (very few of the main resort rooms have kings), a full kitchen, and a real shower with a separate tub.

Before we bought DVC, we paid cash to stay at various deluxe resorts, and although those were nice, I don't think we could do a non-DVC room with queen beds and no kitchens.

None of the disney resorts are the Four Seasons and realistically we know we are paying a premium for the location (for us either BCV or VGF) not the room. We even discussed staying at the Four Seasons (we love their resorts!) once it opens but we just like being close to the parks.

Exactly this! I hate non-DVC stays in a "hotel" anymore, and I sure couldn't stay at Disney without my King bed and full kitchen and laundry!

 

[JustTinking]

We've been DVC for 11 years, frequent visitors. We've had an experience like the OP, and at SSR to boot, but it has been the exception, not the norm. We like that there is no daily mousekeeping as my DH values his privacy, and we love the extra space and convenience. But that's us.

VWL was our first home and I think it has weathered well, always love coming home there and never any issues. But as all these properties age, without major refurbishment there will be more issues. At this point we still think it is worth the $$.

 

[bighoo93]

I guess other people have had much better hotel experiences than I have. I've done quite a bit of traveling, particularly for work, and stayed at plenty of different hotels all along the quality spectrum from Sleep Inn, Hampton Inn, Marriott, Ritz Carlton, etc. I've had all the problems and more that I've seen mentioned here (except for the laundry backing up, because I never had laundry facilities in my hotel room). I guess I just don't hold hotels up as the gold standard of awesomeness. Problems happen, from the minor annoyance to the inexcusably disgusting. I'm not sure why DVC would be much different, although maybe my expectations are just lower than most other people.

Seems like good advice to stay at a timeshare before buying, if that is possible. It is definitely possible for DVC, through renting points. We stayed as renters first at OKW and absolutely loved it. Every stay can be different, but staying there definitely gave us an idea of what a DVC vacation is like, which we could not exactly have had without trying it first.

 

[Andrew015]

Yes, but they come HERE to do their due diligence and we say things like "compare it to a Deluxe hotel" and frequently don't mention room refresh or housekeeping when doing our calculations. Those are qualitative differences - their value may be subjective. But they are real differences and we shouldn't gloss them over.

Once again, I don't think anyone here is trying to sweep these things under the rug. These topics are discussed at length in numerous threads, so anyone coming HERE to do their due dilligence should have no trouble in understanding these things. On the contrary, I find that most DVC-DISboard members go out of their way to help prospective DVC'ers to fully understand what they are potentially buying into. More often than not, when a "Should I Buy DVC" thread pops up (which happens at least once or twice per day), it seems that more members come out of the woodwork to provide the "downsides" (i.e., no daily housekeeping, annual maintenance fees, no free dining, less travel flexibility, etc.) than do "pixie-dusters" promoting a "buy now" scenario. I think these forums are a fantastic resource for any perspective DVC buyer, and I think we do a pretty darn good job of shedding some light onto not only the upsides, but also the downsides of ownership.

Comparing DVC and a Deluxe hotel isn't an apples to oranges comparison - but it is a granny smith to fuji comparison - and if you are expecting a red apple and get a granny smith, you'll be disappointed.

Point taken, and I really do agree with this statement. But this seems contrary to your initial post, in which, you make DVC sound like a completely different animal to that of a Deluxe Disney resort.

I've traveled all over the world too, and I'm not impressed with Disney hotels in general, but every Disney hotel I've stayed in has been better maintained than every DVC room I've stayed in - I'm not picky either - but in the hotels I don't have broken drawers, burnt out lightbulbs, and carpet stains.

I agree also that Disney's version of "Deluxe" is hardly on par with my idea of "Deluxe" (thinking Ritz Carlton here). That being said, IMHO, what you are getting that is "Deluxe" is location, theming and transportation that is superior to that of the other Disney resorts (value and moderate). Perhaps the term "Deluxe" is used somewhat liberally by Disney, but it is their categorization of "good, better and best" of what they have to offer (good marketing, I suppose). With regard to your experiences re: broken and worn our accommodations, once again, my experience has been completely different. Had I experienced a room like you describe, perhaps I would relate a little more closely with your argument. But also know that another side of the coin exists - Having spent a number of years reading the Resort's forum of DISBoards, it's not uncommon to find the same types of problems in the regular hotel rooms, too. I've traveled to WDW and stayed on-property almost once a year from the age of 5 until my current age of 29, and I can honestly say that I have not stayed in a "bad" hotel room ever - DVC or moderate/deluxe.

 

[Andrew015]

VWL was our first home and I think it has weathered well, always love coming home there and never any issues. But as all these properties age, without major refurbishment there will be more issues. At this point we still think it is worth the $$.

With VWL being the smallest of the DVC resorts, it might have received the best attention from the maintenance and engineering staffs over the years. It seems that more complaints about "rough" rooms come from SSR and BLT, both of which are much larger by comparison. Perhaps the maintenance resources are spread a little too thin at these resorts...

 

[Andrew015]

I guess other people have had much better hotel experiences than I have. I've done quite a bit of traveling, particularly for work, and stayed at plenty of different hotels all along the quality spectrum from Sleep Inn, Hampton Inn, Marriott, Ritz Carlton, etc. I've had all the problems and more that I've seen mentioned here (except for the laundry backing up, because I never had laundry facilities in my hotel room). I guess I just don't hold hotels up as the gold standard of awesomeness. Problems happen, from the minor annoyance to the inexcusably disgusting. I'm not sure why DVC would be much different, although maybe my expectations are just lower than most other people.

I just returned from China last month. Upon entering my Holiday Inn after 18 hours of travel, I see the front desk clerk chasing a giant rat through the lobby with a shovel. Until I see that at DVC, I won't complain much

 

[SarahInMN]

I just returned from China last month. Upon entering my Holiday Inn after 18 hours of travel, I see the front desk clerk chasing a giant rat through the lobby with a shovel. Until I see that at DVC, I won't complain much

Point well made!! and

 

[crisi]

I just returned from China last month. Upon entering my Holiday Inn after 18 hours of travel, I see the front desk clerk chasing a giant rat through the lobby with a shovel. Until I see that at DVC, I won't complain much

My husband just got back from Taipai and stayed at the Shangri-La. The comped dessert tray they brought him on Friday night was beautiful (a little weird - as Asian food often is). The view - of Taipei 101 - astounding. And the staff bent over backwards to make sure his stay was pleasant. 5 star hotel for $280 a night. I haven't had broken drawers, moldy bathrooms, burned out lights in Intercontinentals or Four Seasons when I've traveled.

For me, DVC rooms are acceptable. Disney deluxe rooms are a step above acceptable. Disney moderates are barely acceptable, and I wouldn't stay in a value, I'd rather stay home. Hyatts and Hiltons (not the Garden Inns or that crap, but their namesake hotels) are generally good - but not impressive. I'm a hotel snob. A hotel in which the management chases a rat across the floor is not acceptable. I know they exist, but I wouldn't stay there.

 

[Goofy DVC]

My husband just got back from Taipai and stayed at the Shangri-La. The comped dessert tray they brought him on Friday night was beautiful (a little weird - as Asian food often is). The view - of Taipei 101 - astounding. And the staff bent over backwards to make sure his stay was pleasant. 5 star hotel for $280 a night. I haven't had broken drawers, moldy bathrooms, burned out lights in Intercontinentals or Four Seasons when I've traveled.

For me, DVC rooms are acceptable. Disney deluxe rooms are a step above acceptable. Disney moderates are barely acceptable, and I wouldn't stay in a value, I'd rather stay home. Hyatts and Hiltons (not the Garden Inns or that crap, but their namesake hotels) are generally good - but not impressive. I'm a hotel snob. A hotel in which the management chases a rat across the floor is not acceptable. I know they exist, but I wouldn't stay there.

We stayed at the Intercontinental in Arizona a few years ago and one day we get a knock on the door to find someone from engineering. The man introduced himself and shared that he would come back later to fix the maintenance issue. I shared that there were no issues and that he must have the wrong room. He looked at his little pad and told us that housekeeping reported it. I insisted that he come in and fix it because I was dying to find out the problem. He reluctantly came in, apologized several times for interrupting. He then fixed the problem. It was a loose knob on one of the dressers. He took all of about 5 seconds to fix it and apologize again before leaving. After he left I said to my DW that no one would ever believe that story. That resort, the Montelucia Resort and Spa was amazing. The service was incredible. Just thought I would share.

 

[Dean]

We stayed at the Intercontinental in Arizona a few years ago and one day we get a knock on the door to find someone from engineering. The man introduced himself and shared that he would come back later to fix the maintenance issue. I shared that there were no issues and that he must have the wrong room. He looked at his little pad and told us that housekeeping reported it. I insisted that he come in and fix it because I was dying to find out the problem. He reluctantly came in, apologized several times for interrupting. He then fixed the problem. It was a loose knob on one of the dressers. He took all of about 5 seconds to fix it and apologize again before leaving. After he left I said to my DW that no one would ever believe that story. That resort, the Montelucia Resort and Spa was amazing. The service was incredible. Just thought I would share.

On average we're in about 5-6 different timeshares a year seeing somewhere in the range of 10 & 15 regular use units (not counting models). Due to our planning and resort expectations, these timeshares are almost all upper range timeshares (Marriott, Hilton, upper Bluegreen, upper Wyndham mostly). From an objective resort comparison standpoint (ignoring location) I'd say DVC is comparable to most but a little below many of them. From a service/response standpoint I'd say essentially all resorts (where I had any reason to compare) were better than DVC. Please don't think I'm complaining about DVC, I generally find them to be acceptable in this area as well, it's just that in direct comparison, other timeshares seem to do better.

Other timeshares seem to care enough about their ratings (internally and/or with the exchange companies) that they go overboard. How often does one get a cold call with DVC asking if a given issue was taken care of or delivered. I can't recall ever getting one with DVC but I'd say it happens most of the time at all other resorts (guess 90% min). Another measure I'd use, and likely a better and more important one, is how often is a given issue taken care of in a timely manner and on one phone call. This seems to be the area where DVC falls down the most. How often do we see posts about real issue that were reported and the guest returns hour later and nothing has been done? Even when they take care of it (missing villa item) they generally try to tie it in to a regular circuit within a given resort, too often. Thus the delay in getting a missing item or other delivery can be quite substantial.

2 stories. One I've posted before where we had several units at a Marriott and the stove top in our villa went bad (had to replace the entire top of the stove). It did not affect us (we told them so) and had it, we had another villa next door we could have used. They came and worked but due to the nature of the issue, it took from mid morning to mid afternoon in total. They were apologetic (over the top), the resort manager called (as did others) without us complaining and they sent a wine basket (which I tried to get them to take back). On our summer trip (6 villas Marriott HH) they played a daily DVD over the closed circuit channel. My grandson wanted to see it but didn't get to. A phone call to the FD gave us the expectation of coming by to check it out but when we went, they couldn't find it. Since it was later in the evening, there weren't a lot of staff around. They called security and had them go to like 3 different places throughout the resort taking a good 30 minutes to find it but they did.

 

[OneMoreTry]

On average we're in about 5-6 different timeshares a year seeing somewhere in the range of 10 & 15 regular use units (not counting models). Due to our planning and resort expectations, these timeshares are almost all upper range timeshares (Marriott, Hilton, upper Bluegreen, upper Wyndham mostly). From an objective resort comparison standpoint (ignoring location) I'd say DVC is comparable to most but a little below many of them. ....

We stayed at a Wyndham in Orlando a number of years ago. It was dingy, poorly lit, the carpet was stained, the walls needing washing, bedspreads were threadbare, it smelled funny. Way below the current standards of a DVC resort.

One other point that has been implied by some of the previous posts. I think DVC is for people who want 1 or 2 BR condo versus hotel room. Don't buy it for the price. It takes years and years to recoup your investment -- it was 7 years when I bought at $63 per point (comparing renting 2 BR versus points). I can't imagine what it takes to recoup at current prices. If I had compared to 2 motel rooms it would probably have been a lot longer.

If you want a condo, buy. If you just want a room, don't. It is a lot of hassle to keep up with the points versus just paying for a room. If you decide not to go one year, then you have a bunch of points to deal with. You have dues every Jan which aren't cheap. You have to calculate the 11 month and 7 month windows and prepare to get online at 8 am.

 

[DebbieB]

We stayed at a Wyndham in Orlando a number of years ago. It was dingy, poorly lit, the carpet was stained, the walls needing washing, bedspreads were threadbare, it smelled funny. Way below the current standards of a DVC resort.

One other point that has been implied by some of the previous posts. I think DVC is for people who want 1 or 2 BR condo versus hotel room. Don't buy it for the price. It takes years and years to recoup your investment -- it was 7 years when I bought at $63 per point (comparing renting 2 BR versus points). I can't imagine what it takes to recoup at current prices. If I had compared to 2 motel rooms it would probably have been a lot longer.

If you want a condo, buy. If you just want a room, don't. It is a lot of hassle to keep up with the points versus just paying for a room. If you decide not to go one year, then you have a bunch of points to deal with. You have dues every Jan which aren't cheap. You have to calculate the 11 month and 7 month windows and prepare to get online at 8 am.

I agree, I bought DVC for a 1 bedroom, to have the extra space and comfort. I wouldn't buy for a studio. I've been a member since 1999 and I can't say I've had a room that I was unhappy with. A couple of times I didn't like views but it's a roll of the dice. I learned as time went on to speak up to see if there is something better.

I've never found managing points to be a hassle, I do monthly payments on dues. When I see people on the resorts & discount boards praying for a discount to come out, I know I made the right choice.

 

[SarahInMN]

If you want a condo, buy. If you just want a room, don't. It is a lot of hassle to keep up with the points versus just paying for a room. If you decide not to go one year, then you have a bunch of points to deal with. You have dues every Jan which aren't cheap. You have to calculate the 11 month and 7 month windows and prepare to get online at 8 am.

DVC has changed how we travel and how we view going to Disney - the pace of vacationing changed for us with a king bed, full kitchen, laundry, not having to worry about when housekeeping is coming and getting out of the room. If we go to Disney, and I realize how this sounds, we just don't want to stay in a "studio" style room and can't give up the 1BR amenities. And yes I realize that makes me sound like a total princess.

I've never found managing points to be a hassle, I do monthly payments on dues. When I see people on the resorts & discount boards praying for a discount to come out, I know I made the right choice.

Agreed - I'm super organized, so points are easy. We just do dues in January. And I am very glad to not be doing the discount dance that we would have to do otherwise (which for me would me way more stressful than managing points/paying dues).

I'm a hotel snob.

For non-Disney trips, we are too. We realize that at Disney part of what we "pay" for is location (our home resort has been BCV and now is also VGF) and amenities. If we were at our other "usual" spots (ie the Palazzo Prestige in Vegas or the Four Seasons in Scottsdale), we have much higher expectations of service and room quality. But those are hotels and we are "paying" for something other than an Epcot or monorail location.

Other than Disney, we've never stayed at another time share style resort. We will be though at Thanksgiving - we're paying cash to stay at a Westin time share in Hawaii. So that may be an interesting comparator.

For us, it's all about managing expectations and being realistic about what we're paying for and what that means in terms of "goals."

 

[brertoad]

We bought in for studios and to save money in the long run. We have not experienced any maintenance issues so far, and have been in at least 15 different rooms. The DVC resorts do have back end locations as someone put it, but we are fine with that, a little extra walking is a small price to pay vs staying at a value resort. DVC works for us. We can overlook many of the cosmetic issues in the room, as they do get wear and tear, and chances are that many people are paying oop for similar accommodations. I would be more upset in that case.

I agree it is a good idea to try it firsthand before buying if you have that opportunity.

 

[crisi]

One other point that has been implied by some of the previous posts. I think DVC is for people who want 1 or 2 BR condo versus hotel room. Don't buy it for the price. It takes years and years to recoup your investment -- it was 7 years when I bought at $63 per point (comparing renting 2 BR versus points). I can't imagine what it takes to recoup at current prices. If I had compared to 2 motel rooms it would probably have been a lot longer.

If you want a condo, buy. If you just want a room, don't. It is a lot of hassle to keep up with the points versus just paying for a room. If you decide not to go one year, then you have a bunch of points to deal with. You have dues every Jan which aren't cheap. You have to calculate the 11 month and 7 month windows and prepare to get online at 8 am.

Yep - and as a condo, its fine. We like our DVC with condo expectations. But the thing with the condo is that the moment you sub in condo for regular hotel room, the financial calculations look much less appealing - so we tend to compare a studio to a Deluxe hotel room for financial reasons.