Non Disney w/ EMH????

[CampingBandit]

Sometimes I think the DISboard should be subtitled the "how to cheat the system" board. There are always posts on here about people's "great" ideas on how to work loopholes in Disney rules to their advantage. I never would've thought of booking a reservation I wasn't going to use before coming to this board. Personally, a few extra hours in the park is not worth the $63, or the time it will take to accomplish this. Waking up at the crack of dawn to drive all over Disney property is not something I want to do on vacation.

Well said.

And while we are "taking advantage" of the tricks to get the best deals - we should still keep in mind what is ethical. This is such a problem in society today, what kind of message are we sending to our kids? That "sometimes" it's okay to lie and cheat as long as we are getting a deal...

I recall a mom once telling me how they stuck their 4-1/2 year old daughter, who was very petite and looked about two, into an umbrella stroller to get her into the parks for free....

 

[maxiesmom]

Sometimes I think the DISboard should be subtitled the "how to cheat the system" board. There are always posts on here about people's "great" ideas on how to work loopholes in Disney rules to their advantage. I never would've thought of booking a reservation I wasn't going to use before coming to this board./QUOTE]

Unfortunately you will find "great" ideas like this all over the Disboards. Some people don't care if what they do has a negative impact on others, as long as they get what they want. Not a way I would want to live. And I can't help but hope that Karma gets them someday.

 

[Brian Noble]

Folks, this is a simple matter of Disney offering a service at a price, and people deciding whether or not they will purchase that service. Once they've purchased that service, they can use it in any way they see fit, within the rules that Disney establishes. If the demand outstrips supply (for any reason---including people using them for EMH access) then there is only one rational solution: reduce demand. That could be done by enforcing minimum stays, or it could be done simply by raising the per-night costs. One could also just lower the value---by, for example, not offering EMH access to campground visitors. Disney could even charge higher prices for the site, and then offer a discount if you actually put a tent on it.

(Edited: I suppose you could also increase supply. But, I can't imagine Disney would devote more land to the relatively low-revenue campsites. In fact, I would expect to see them continue to "upgrade" the campsites that exist, converting more of them to the more-expensive pad sites and/or replacing some with cabins.)

For the record, I've never actually used a campsite in this way. I'm a staunch avoider of EMH-designated parks, because I'd rather get my Extra Magical Hour of Sleep and visit less-crowded parks. In fact, I've *never* attended an EMH, not once---despite having several stays at Old Key West. But, the option exists for those who wish to make use of it, and it's not even news---it's been known for years that one can do this, and at least one published guide book suggests it as a money-saving strategy. Until and unless Disney changes its policies about campground bookings and EMH access, people will continue to book them for this reason.

 

[clkelley]

If you really want to save money and get EMH and purchase the dining plan, then actually USE the campsite. Then you won't have the cost of that off-site condo or hotel!!!

 

[gillenkl]

Folks, this is a simple matter of Disney offering a service at a price, and people deciding whether or not they will purchase that service. Once they've purchased that service, they can use it in any way they see fit, within the rules that Disney establishes. If the demand outstrips supply (for any reason---including people using them for EMH access) then there is only one rational solution: reduce demand. That could be done by enforcing minimum stays, or it could be done simply by raising the per-night costs. One could also just lower the value---by, for example, not offering EMH access to campground visitors. Disney could even charge higher prices for the site, and then offer a discount if you actually put a tent on it.exist, converting more of them to the more-expensive pad sites and/or replacing some with cabins.)

WHAT? You want to take away our EMH hours too? Along with the idea of using disposable campsite reservations.....I think you really are THE ABSENT MINDED PROFESSOR.

 

[Brian Noble]

actually USE the campsite. Then you won't have the cost of that off-site condo or hotel!!!

Well, as I said, I don't actually attend EMH. I don't buy the dining plan either; we end up spending less just eating what we want, when we want, than the dining plan sufficient to cover our table service meals would cost, even without the TIW card.

But, it would be more expensive for me to camp than my last week's lodging cost. A campground during Peak season is about $580 for the week---AAA would knock that down some, but not enough. I had a 2BR unit (newly refurbished) at Vistana this past February for a total cost of about $315 including all fees using my Wyndham points to exchange in RCI.

You want to take away our EMH hours too?

Of course not! The more people attend EMH, the fewer people there are in the park I'm in that day.

More seriously, I don't want or expect that to happen. I was just throwing out ideas for what Disney could do to solve this problem. As you can see, some cures are worse than the disease.

 

[clkelley]

If the demand outstrips supply (for any reason---including people using them for EMH access) then there is only one rational solution: reduce demand. That could be done by enforcing minimum stays, or it could be done simply by raising the per-night costs. One could also just lower the value---by, for example, not offering EMH access to campground visitors. Disney could even charge higher prices for the site, and then offer a discount if you actually put a tent on it.

Demand has outstripped supply. There are a grand total of 799 campsites, period. Only about 85 of those sites are designed for tent campers and those with small campers. Just with the values alone, there are almost 8,000 rooms.

Disney does charge higher prices for the sites. When all the resorts are having free dining, or Free water park & fun, or up to $750 gift cards, the campers are paying almost full price!!! (Very minimal discounts offered).

(Edited: I suppose you could also increase supply. But, I can't imagine Disney would devote more land to the relatively low-revenue campsites. In fact, I would expect to see them continue to "upgrade" the campsites that exist, converting more of them to the more-expensive pad sites and/or replacing some with cabins.)

Low revenue???!!!! When I'm paying over $100 a night for a slab of concrete, a water hose, an electric hookup, there is no way that's low revenue. They don't have to do building maintenance, they don't have daily housekeeping, no daily laundry, no heating or AC costs.

But, the option exists for those who wish to make use of it, and it's not even news---it's been known for years that one can do this, and at least one published guide book suggests it as a money-saving strategy.

The author of this guidebook is gonna hear from us too!!

 

[Brian Noble]

If the campgrounds are so darn profitable on a per-sqare-foot basis, why do they keep building more DVC units instead of more campgrounds? It's not like Disney is afraid of making money.

 

[Ava]

Low revenue???!!!! When I'm paying over $100 a night for a slab of concrete, a water hose, an electric hookup, there is no way that's low revenue. They don't have to do building maintenance, they don't have daily housekeeping, no daily laundry, no heating or AC costs.

I have to ask... if you are paying over $100/night for a campsite, why not just stay in a hotel instead? Then you could take advantage of free dining, gift cards, or whatever promo Disney is running for its hotel guests. With the pricing you mention, the only advantage I can see to staying in a campsite instead of a hotel is if you have a large group and would need multiple hotel rooms (thereby making a hotel more expensive). But you can just about always get a Value room for $100/night or less.

(Not trying to play devil's advocate here, if you read my previous post you'll see I don't agree with people booking campsites just to get access to EMH. I'm just curious why you'd book a campsite if you don't think it's a good value.)

 

[Brian Noble]

Well, clkelly has a camper, not a tent, and my guess is that the camper is much much MUCH more comfortable and better equipped than a hotel room. Plus the camper is "home" where a hotel room definitely isn't.

In other words, probably for the same reasons I stay in timeshares rather than hotel rooms. I don't consider a hotel room vacation even for just my wife and I, let alone all four of us.

 

[5happycampers]

Something I have taught my kids from a young age is that you make choices on a daily basis. Even though something may not be against the rules it does not make it morally/ethically right. This is a fine example to set for their kids, that it is okay to lie and do whatever in order to get what you want. Sure, it may not be against the rules...yet..but bottom line it is not the right thing to do and shows a total lack of concern for anyone but themselves. Obviously this person feels they are much more important than some who *gasp* actually camps.

I am a firm believe in what goes around comes around...

 

[connie1042]

I don't know why this makes so many people upset. How many locals book a room for 1 night. I bet it is quite a few. No where does it say if you book a room, you have to stay in it for a certain number of hours. Disney is getting the same amount of money no matter if the person sleeps there or not. I am not getting anything free out of the deal. Would it make a difference to Disney if I actually put up a tent and slept in it for a few hour. I don't think so.The population of these boards are small compared to the number of people that use Disney lodging. I really don't think a 1 night stay is going to ruin anyone's vacation.I paid for a service and I am going to use the benefits that I paid for.Sleeping in a tent is not going to change anything.I did not lie to anyone. Where do you see that I am lying. I told the person on the phone exactly what I was doing. So you want to tell me where I was lying and to whom did I tell this lie!

 

[floydfamily4]

And, if you book a room/site and pay for it, you can use it for anything you want---including not using it at all. It is yours to use as you wish.

I agree with this statement. I wouldn't do it but I believe that as long as you have paid for the space, it is your choice whether to stay there or not. Unlike many people on this board who own at DVC, go on multiple vacations, stay at deluxe resorts, eat at all the expensive restaurants, I am just a lady who had to save for 3 years to take my kids to WDW. We stayed offsite (and LOVED it) and went off season. Had a great vacation. I just don't understand why people on this board are so concerned about disney making money. They will figure out ways to keep making money. Now being concerned about fellow campers being shut out...that I understand. But the OP asked originally about hotels, not camping and this was thrown out as a suggestion. Let's not beat up the OP who seems to be trying to figure out how to take his family to WDW and enjoy (not sure how) the EMH. Just my humble, while unpopular, opinion.

 

[spiceycat]

Hey, I know what.... the next time you guys want to buy a "throw away" campsite.... we campers will just set up tents, trailers, and motorhomes in the parking lot of your resort forcing you to park blocks away from the building. We'll bathe in your pool and brush our teeth in the lobby rest room. When we're finished and on our drive back home, we'll stop off at your house and camp in your front yard.... And you know, we'll probably have to pull a "cousin Eddy" (you know from Christmas Vacation) and take care of that tank that has all of a sudden become full....

Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it? Well imagine how we feel.... There are not thousands of spaces to camp at WDW. On occasions in order to get the dates that we want to visit or can visit, we have to call every day from anywhere to a year or more in advance, often times having to piece together several reservations just to get one linear week in one site without having to be moved.

Imagine if you will, we finally do get in after being told the resort is completely sold out, and we look around and there are literally empty campsites everywhere. Oh my bad, those must be some of those throwaway sites....

I guess some family will not be able to camp at Fort Wilderness because there was no availability.

hey that is what was happening at WL/VWL for YEARS....

campers kept going to WL because it had a better pool. Disney tried to stop it gave up and finally build a better pool at FW.

so don't pretend that campers are above this.

for many years when visiting VWL there were more campers using the pools than guest of Wl/VWL.

 

[clkelley]

Well, clkelly has a camper, not a tent, and my guess is that the camper is much much MUCH more comfortable and better equipped than a hotel room. Plus the camper is "home" where a hotel room definitely isn't.

In other words, probably for the same reasons I stay in timeshares rather than hotel rooms. I don't consider a hotel room vacation even for just my wife and I, let alone all four of us.

I also have many tents and tent camp quite a bit. My next trip down, I'm going to be putting a tent and some other stuff in an owner's locker, so I can fly down for the weekends and tent camp at the Fort!!!! (Pulling the camper down for just the weekend is not feasible.) I'd trade Free Dining for a tent at Ft. Wilderness any day!!!!!

To us, the Fort is home!! There is no place like it and when we're constantly told they are booked solid and we spend hours online and on the phone trying to get a site, then when we get there, (or read from others online that there are empty sites, it gets pretty old!!!!

 

[Brian Noble]

Reduced to its essence, this argument says you can't buy anything ethically unless you are prepared to use it to its fullest, because every resource is finite, not just campgrounds. For example, buying a combo meal but throwing away the fries is contributing to world hunger, etc.

And, at some level, this is actually true. But, most of us don't actually live our lives this way. Indeed, I suspect most of us don't even think about it until we find ourselves on the short end of the finite-resource stick. And, by virtue of the fact that we can all afford vacations at Disneyworld, be they campgrounds or concierge suites, those times are few and far between relative to the vast majority of the planet's population who are geniunely poverty-stricken.

One of my research projects involves providing access to the Information Economy in countries like Ethiopia. After spending a few months thinking about the problems these people have, I can tell you that arguing over who is more entitled to book an $80/night campsite couldn't be more pointless.

As an aside, there is a lot of really interesting literature on "moral economies", and for better or worse, they don't scale past the level of very small communities.

Have to go teach. Feel free to continue the discussion without me.

 

[clkelley]

I have to ask... if you are paying over $100/night for a campsite, why not just stay in a hotel instead? Then you could take advantage of free dining, gift cards, or whatever promo Disney is running for its hotel guests. With the pricing you mention, the only advantage I can see to staying in a campsite instead of a hotel is if you have a large group and would need multiple hotel rooms (thereby making a hotel more expensive). But you can just about always get a Value room for $100/night or less.

(Not trying to play devil's advocate here, if you read my previous post you'll see I don't agree with people booking campsites just to get access to EMH. I'm just curious why you'd book a campsite if you don't think it's a good value.)

I never said I didn't think it was a good value. It is NOT the least expensive, but value and $$ cost are two totally different things!!!

The Fort is a special place. I'd much rather stay at the Fort, be it in a tent, my camper, a rental camper from a friend, or a hammock strung between two trees!!

But if folks are renting the sites and not using them, then the folks that want to stay there can't!!

It may not be the biggest money maker for Disney. However, it is not a loss leader either.

 

[gillenkl]

I have to ask... if you are paying over $100/night for a campsite, why not just stay in a hotel instead?

As others have said The Fort is our home. For me, I like knowing who slept in my bed before me and I can use my own kitchen to make my food. I do have a popup and not a tent but we can still use tent sites. No need to pay airfare or sleep in hotels on the roadtrip down/back to disney because I bring my home with me. I also enjoy the comraderie of other campers. Once you get into camping, it's hard to go back to hotels and The Fort is the ultimate camping experience. Besides I can't loop around in a golf cart on any other disney property.

 

[DisneyAndRedSox]

I am sure Disney knows all about it. I once took a book out of the library on budget Disney trips and it actually recommended booking a campsite for EMH and staying off-site!

 

[BRDof3]

You can also always get access by booking a throwaway campground reservation. That together with a top-notch offsite resort can sometimes still be less expensive than a comparable unit onsite.

What irony that your screen name is "Noble." Your attitude and desire to cheat the system does, indeed, speak volumes about your character. Why should you care that someone else may not be able to go to Disney because they couldn't get a legitimate site? After all, the only thing that matters is that you saved a few bucks.

I actually saved the money and made sure I was able to pay for my vacation- before I went. What a novel idea.