No more segmented vacations for ddp

[psac]

I love how the term "loophole" is now used as though it is fact. It is just the opinion of some (embraced by others) in this case. Noone here knows for sure that the allowing of DDP for portions of a vacation for DVC members was not intended or at least knowingly endorsed when discovered.

On a side note, thank you for those assissting me with multiple quote posts!

It was a loophole that was taken advantage of (which is fine); and by some, overly abused (which caused it to be taken away).

It is not logical to think otherwise.

 

[Chuck S]

do they add the tip in after the discount? so a 20% discount then an 18% added tip is a 2% discount? just pass on the card then

they are paid an hourly wage so a tip is a "perk" and can be removed at anytime....correct???...........

Don't you normally tip your servers? Did you not tip when using the DDP? Basically the TiW saves you the amount of the tip.

For instance, on a $100 bill, you would normally tip $18 to $20, for a total of $118 to $120. With the DDP, the total would be $98. A significant savings.

Servers are paid significantly less than a living wage, with the assumption by the government that they will receive a gratuity. In many states, their "salary" is in the $2 per hour range, with the rest coming from tips.

 

[DebbieB]

I love how the term "loophole" is now used as though it is fact. It is just the opinion of some (embraced by others) in this case. Noone here knows for sure that the allowing of DDP for portions of a vacation for DVC members was not intended or at least knowingly endorsed when discovered.

On a side note, thank you for those assissting me with multiple quote posts!

If it was intended to be used, why was it not announced? This would be a great selling point for new members. I'm not blaming the members for discovering this, it seems like the idea started from member services. But I don't think it was thought out and perhaps not approved by the other departments. Now they have a PR mess.

do they add the tip in after the discount? so a 20% discount then an 18% added tip is a 2% discount? just pass on the card then

they are paid an hourly wage so a tip is a "perk" and can be removed at anytime....correct???...........

You should always figure the tip before discount, Disney or not. I think the reason they automatically add the tip is because people don't figure this correctly.

 

[Brian Noble]

do they add the tip in after the discount? so a 20% discount then an 18% added tip is a 2% discount?

It's only a 2% discount if you never tip.

Hopefully, you do.

 

[DHar]

with the tiw card - if the bill is 100 -20% = 80, then they add the tip + 14.40 = 94.40 you would pay...correct?

 

[vicki_c]

with the tiw card - if the bill is 100 -20% = 80, then they add the tip + 14.40 = 94.40 you would pay...correct?

Can't believe this is turning into a tipping thread ...

If your bill was $100, the gratuity would be $18.
So $100 less 20% ($20) = $80
Plus your $18 tip = $98

That's how it is calculated. As Deb mentioned, people don't calculate it correctly when there is a discount (whether it's TiW or restaurant.com or whatever), which is most likely why Disney adds it for you.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

DVC and what any of you as a member bought and paid for and are entitled to in your POS is very different from Disney Dining, Disney tickets, Disney transportation. etc.

You will be less disappointed going forward as a DVC member if you remember that what you actually paid for and what you have as perks that can come and go without notice are not the same.

If you own at BLT and at 11 months you call and were told sorry you can't book yet, then yes you have plenty of reason to be upset as you were being denied something you actually have legal right to.

Dining plan changes, disappointed maybe, truly upset to the point of complaining to DVC, sorry just don't see it.

No one was lied to, you were given current policy at that time. The policy changed and at no fault of DVC and certainly not the fault of the person who told you.

Great post!

I think that people think they purchased something besides a "place to stay" LOL!

I read the paperwork. All the control rests with Disney. If you don't like that you have only one option... SELL!

Plus the only place I am seeing lots of "outrage" is on the DIS so... I doubt that in Disney's mind this is a huge issue. We can carry on all we want on here, but I don't think we truly represent the membership as a whole.

 

[jakenjess]

Perhaps it wasn't a loophole, rather an experiment to see how members would respond. Some have long argued that they would use the DDP for their partial stay if the LOS mandate were not in place.

But loophole or experiment, the fact that this ability lasted less than a year confirms that Disney was not pleased with the results. The one thing it definitely was not intended to be was a money-saving "thank you" perk for Disney Vacation Club members.

I think that's exactly what it was -- an experiment, which is why it wasn't announced formally. It didn't work well, so it was discontinued. I was actually wondering how long it would last after reading all the posts of what a nightmare it was with the key cards and all the time spent at the front desk. I'm not sure they foresaw people segmenting nearly every day of their stay in some cases. I'm sure the front desk CMs are glad to see it go. I do feel bad for those of you with plans in place; it's too bad those reservations couldn't be grandfathered and simply not allow segmenting the DDP from this point forward.

 

[tfc3rid]

For those doing the tip calculations, don't forget to include the 6.5% Florida sales tax...

 

[Mousewerks]

For those doing the tip calculations, don't forget to include the 6.5% Florida sales tax...

I never tip on the tax. It's purely external to the transaction so it's not included in the tip.

 

[hakepb]

Wat?

Even at Beaches and Cream they added the 18% gratuity (which is fine with me, matter of fact I threw on some extra tip for the great service we got). The only place I can think of that wouldn't add it is Flame Tree BBQ, but then again you have no server.

Could you imagine going up to a manager and asking for the gratuity to be removed because you couldn't get a segmented dining plan?

Yes, counter service locations on TiW have no tip. AP (Artist Pallet) is a counter service location in SSR. I guess because Turf Club has no breakfast, AP still gets the TiW discount.

And yes, sabotaging someone's personnel file(lying to a manager about bad service) to save a few bucks is lower than low.

 

[lugnut33]

Pop Century's food court and Pizzafari also accept the DDP, and also have no added gratuity. Beaches and Cream is full table service, so they add the gratuity. The last time I was there the quick service line was for ice cream only, you could not order burgers or meals to go. I dont know if Artist Pallette at SSR adds gratuity or not...I have not eaten there.

We were talking about the Tables In Wonderland card. Perhaps you meant TIW instead of DDP? I forgot about Pizzafari and I would never think to run into Pop for food (but now it's an option).

Disney does not base the 18% tip with tax added in.

I do agree with the sentiment in this thread that DVCers should be allowed to buy the TIW card without having an annual pass. That would be great perk. I also don't think Disney loses that much money on people using the TIW card.

Reflecting back on it, we probably only saved a couple hundred bucks over the life of my current TIW card which will expire in Oct. However, we also ate at some really nice places we wouldn't have ate at without the TIW card, so in that sense it cost us money.

 

[hakepb]

If it was intended to be used, why was it not announced? This would be a great selling point for new members. I'm not blaming the members for discovering this, it seems like the idea started from member services. But I don't think it was thought out and perhaps not approved by the other departments. Now they have a PR mess.



You should always figure the tip before discount, Disney or not. I think the reason they automatically add the tip is because people don't figure this correctly.

Disney has a many official internal procedures that they do not advertise to the public.

For instance, Figment (a CM in ticketing) states they have a procedure in their manual for bridging a discounted, (ie UT) MYW ticket into an AP (including the less expensive DVC AP). Its a good policy in the sense Disney gets more pre-paid tickets, but I'm sure Disney is not thrilled with all uses of that policy.

I am sure MS had an official procedure for segmenting. I am guessing the intent of dining segmenting was for members that had guests arrive or leave during a trip, so everyone could use the same DDP for only the days they were on property. I do not at all believe that segmenting was a "loophole", just one use of an internal proceedure that MS was aware of once they officially received the proceedure.

 

[bgraham34]

I never tip on the tax. It's purely external to the transaction so it's not included in the tip.

I always include the tax in it. It does not raise the cost up much. And why can't you throw out another dollar in your tip. They don't make much an hour and its your tips that make them the money. Basically their hourly rate covers their income tax.

 

[papamouse1]

Okay, sorry to interrupt the tip discussion, but I did finally get things worked out with DVC concerning upcoming trip, segmented stay, and DDP. First, this is how my situation unfolded.

1) Called at 7 months and booked a 2 night stay at BCV and another 1 night stay at BWV. We have done split stays for years so we could see more resorts AND so we could get DDP for part of the trip and enjoy fine dining some without having to eat nonstop every day of our trip. SO these were booked as 2 separate ressies.

2) My wife decided she would like to not have to move on the last night to BWV, and so I got on wait list for BVC for last night... it came through and so we had 2 ressies at BCV back to back... or at least we thought we did.

3) DVC, in their infinite wisdom decided to think for me, and the system merged my 2 ressies in to 1 "segmented" ressie.

4) When I called this AM to check on the DDP and get it booked just for my 1st ressie (2 night stay), they informed that since the system merged them, it was now 1 ressie and I had to book DDP for all 3 nights.

5) I politely asked to speak to supervisor (mainly because I wanted to verify that if I had, or will in the future, book 2 separate ressies, could I get DDP on only one ressie like I had in the past). The CM came back and said he had spoken again to a supervisor, and because my segmented ressie included a 1-day stay at the end, and that was the one I wanted no DDP for, they could do it for me. SO i was able to book DDP for just the 2 night stay.

A couple things for those out there still wondering if you can do anything.

1) They told me that if you are trying to avoid the DDP on your first night or on your last night (maybe you fly in late or leave early...), they can accommodate you and not book DDP for every night of your ressie. So for some of you that segmented, you may still be able to avoid DDP on the last segment or the 1st segment if they are only 1 night segments. Just ask.
BUT they made it clear, if you booked one of these 5 segment deals for a 5 night stay and want to skip days in middle or keep switching back and for the (DDP, then DxDDP, then DDP etc.) this would not be doable. They expressed that this approach was creating all kinds of problems so that's why they changed. Of course, we don't know for sure if that was it, but does makes sense.

2) They did say "yes" if I book in the future, all I have to do is make sure they book separate ressies (not segmented) and I can still get DDP on them as individual stays. Of course, that may change some day as well, but for now still fine.

3) Be polite! Seriously folks, I was as upset as many of you... I got up early to book at 7 months... got up early to do ADR's at 180 days... I worked hard to make this a special once-in-a-lifetime holiday trip to WDW. And this abrupt change messed everything up. Bottom line, DVC is or was not in control of this change (at least we have no evidence it was their choice), but clearly they want to help if they can, so be nice and give them more of a reason to help.

Good luck everyone!

 

[vicki_c]

With the TiW, tax is figured after the discount. The tip is figured on the amount without the tax.

Meal amount
-Less TiW discount
=Net meal amount
+Tax on that that net amount
+Tip on Meal amount
= Total you will pay

 

[Brian Noble]

Or, if you prefer a specific example:

Menu price of meal: $100.
TIW price of meal: $80 ($100 - 20%)
Tax: $5.20 (6.5% of $80)
Service charge: $18 (18% of $100)
Total: $80 + $5.20 + $18, or $103.20

I usually round my TIW bills up some, because I tend to tip more than 18%. But, one certainly would not have to.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

Sometimes simplification is the best path to improved customer service. This was a long thread and it took me all lunch hour to read through. I personally never use the DDP or have segmented trips in the past. We are also TiW people and would go out of our way to spend a few bucks more for one DVC AP just to get it even if our trip was less than the break-even point. We find it pays for itself in short order with the discount and free valet parking.

Any way - going back to my original point about improved customer service - early on in this thread there was a lot of "same 'ol JL mentality" stuff thrown around which I think doesn't ring true. While this definitely imposes on some peoples trip planning, it might be an overall attempt to look at operations as a whole and try to clean things up.

I for one am not surprised at all. This whole concept of segmenting seemed ridiculous to me and a nightmare to manage for both guests and DVC staff. I assumed given the circumstances that JL and other execs were thrown out under that Claire Bilby and Karl Holz would be doing a thorough review of all DVC procedures and processes trying to see if there were other "issues" hanging out there from the previous regime. This is probably one that was stumbled upon as bad for both Disney and guests all around. That being said if this is the first step towards DVC getting back to it's "roots" of what the program and club was founded on, I'm OK with it...

 

[bastraker]

Okay, sorry to interrupt the tip discussion, but I did finally get things worked out with DVC concerning upcoming trip, segmented stay, and DDP. First, this is how my situation unfolded.

1) Called at 7 months and booked a 2 night stay at BCV and another 1 night stay at BWV. We have done split stays for years so we could see more resorts AND so we could get DDP for part of the trip and enjoy fine dining some without having to eat nonstop every day of our trip. SO these were booked as 2 separate ressies.

2) My wife decided she would like to not have to move on the last night to BWV, and so I got on wait list for BVC for last night... it came through and so we had 2 ressies at BCV back to back... or at least we thought we did.

3) DVC, in their infinite wisdom decided to think for me, and the system merged my 2 ressies in to 1 "segmented" ressie.

4) When I called this AM to check on the DDP and get it booked just for my 1st ressie (2 night stay), they informed that since the system merged them, it was now 1 ressie and I had to book DDP for all 3 nights.

5) I politely asked to speak to supervisor (mainly because I wanted to verify that if I had, or will in the future, book 2 separate ressies, could I get DDP on only one ressie like I had in the past). The CM came back and said he had spoken again to a supervisor, and because my segmented ressie included a 1-day stay at the end, and that was the one I wanted no DDP for, they could do it for me. SO i was able to book DDP for just the 2 night stay.

A couple things for those out there still wondering if you can do anything.

1) They told me that if you are trying to avoid the DDP on your first night or on your last night (maybe you fly in late or leave early...), they can accommodate you and not book DDP for every night of your ressie. So for some of you that segmented, you may still be able to avoid DDP on the last segment or the 1st segment if they are only 1 night segments. Just ask.
BUT they made it clear, if you booked one of these 5 segment deals for a 5 night stay and want to skip days in middle or keep switching back and for the (DDP, then DxDDP, then DDP etc.) this would not be doable. They expressed that this approach was creating all kinds of problems so that's why they changed. Of course, we don't know for sure if that was it, but does makes sense.

2) They did say "yes" if I book in the future, all I have to do is make sure they book separate ressies (not segmented) and I can still get DDP on them as individual stays. Of course, that may change some day as well, but for now still fine.

3) Be polite! Seriously folks, I was as upset as many of you... I got up early to book at 7 months... got up early to do ADR's at 180 days... I worked hard to make this a special once-in-a-lifetime holiday trip to WDW. And this abrupt change messed everything up. Bottom line, DVC is or was not in control of this change (at least we have no evidence it was their choice), but clearly they want to help if they can, so be nice and give them more of a reason to help.

Good luck everyone!

I just got off the phone with MS again about my October reservation. They will not let me book my already segemented stay the way I would like.

I want two days deluxe(which were already segmented from my 11 month window) and the remaining 6 nights regular dining. They said "all or nothing" no exceptions.

Yesterday when I called, I got a different story. She said I could do that, but I may be changing rooms. I wanted to talk that over with my husband first. Since he said ok, go with it, I called today to pay for it and was told NO.

I asked if I could not have the dining plan on the first night as your said above, and she said NO, it's all or nothing.

You can book separate reservations with separate numbers (not segmenting) and book separate plans. However, you have to do that from the beginning when you book the room. I am 30 days out and that is not possible.

 

[Inkmahm]

I always include the tax in it. It does not raise the cost up much. And why can't you throw out another dollar in your tip. They don't make much an hour and its your tips that make them the money. Basically their hourly rate covers their income tax.

I disagree. I base the tip on total pretax, also. That is the "standard" calculation, including the one that Disney uses.