No more Prince or Princesses

Status
Not open for further replies.
My nephew (8), who wears his hair long and occasionally in a ponytail ended up miserable at dinner one night as he kept getting called Princess by a waiter despite us correcting him, so we raised that with GR who apologised and said they’d take it on board.
 
Or if you had a magic band you could program it into your app?
I thought about this but MBs don't pop up nearly as often as CMs (like in stores, etc). FWIW, I have a kid who identifies as they/them and we wear a button for them when we're out and about (if this is going to come up).
 
  • Like
Reactions: MPD
Just for future reference Wikipedia is not the best source of information. People literally go in and “edit” history. I am NOT saying this is the case in your post, just be aware of this.
Don't trust Wikipedia! :hyper:

OK, how about this, then: My wife and I independently know about this. My family is from Eastern Europe and my grandparents experienced all of this first hand. My grandma's brother was a proud bolshevik (until he...wasn't.) My grandma and her brother recounted found memories of calling people "tovarishch" in earnest, at first, then ironically, with a hidden sneer, later. Yes, they really were that old (and I guess that makes me pretty old, too.)

My wife grew up in PRC. Their equivalent is 同志 (in Pinyin, TongZhi.) I just now asked her, and she knew the phrase and it's intended usage immediately, of course.

Question: when does "friend" not imply "friendship?"
Answer: When you are politically required to call total strangers that.
 
Friendship implies a mutual familiarity which some people may rightly feels needs to be earned rather than simply assumed by one party. While the terms Prince or Princess are intended to elevate the standing of the other party, and doesn't imply any mutual familiarity (just the opposite, in fact.)

If two total strangers meet each other for the first time, I think it is reasonable to assume they haven't yet established mutual "friendship." Unless they both mutually agree to use the term "friend" to address each other, it is presumptuous to do so. And it can feel creepy or even offensive to some people in some situations.

This reminds me of the regional practice for some women in the service industry to call their customers "honey" or "darling." That is also meant as a term of endearment and familiarity by them. I don't mind it when my waitress calls me honey or sweetie. I find it charming and endearing, as intended.

But, if a male waiter did that to my wife, it would be less charming and slightly creepy. If a male colleague did to to a coworker, that would be borderline sexual harassment.

We are all living in the same culture, so we understand what the boundaries are and usually avoid overstepping them. But that doesn't always work: in some regions (and time periods) it was/is perfectly acceptable to call strange females "darling" "honey" and "sweetie." And I can imagine that some wives may find it disturbing for an attractive waitress to call their husband "darling" in front of his family.

Assuming and imposing too much familiarity can sometimes cause offense even if it's intent was entirely positive. And simply assuming that everyone will feel it's "OK" just because you do is not very inclusive or compasionate.
I just don't get this (what seems like weird animosity to being nice - trust me, I'm all about resisting forced intimacy but "friend"). Maybe we could just say, "Hi, @#$^$#%$" as they might in some places, lol.
 

I just don't get this (what seems like weird animosity to being nice - trust me, I'm all about resisting forced intimacy but "friend"). Maybe we could just say, "Hi, @#$^$#%$" as they might in some places, lol.
Well, I'm pretty sure that calling people Sir and Madam is also intended to be nice.

Look, if you believe a certain way, that fine. But don't impose on me how I'm supposed to feel about something, just because you "don't get it." Isn't that kind of the point of this whole discussion?

I don't really like being called "friend" by total strangers. And just because other people think I should like it and it shouldn't matter to me, that's not going to change how I personally feel.
 
For those who don't dream or aren't friends with strangers ... aren't there scripts used in places like Star Tours or Wilderness Canyon or wherever where there's something brought up that might not apply to you (I'm not a padawan, wookie, OR a jedi!) and you just think, "oh okay that just isn't for me" and move on (that I know of - and I realize I'm in the dark on this - padwans, jedis, etc are not gendered). Toys works awesomely in Toy Story Land - or are folks like Buzz and adamant that they're not toys!
 
Well, I'm pretty sure that calling people Sir and Madam is also intended to be nice.

Look, if you believe a certain way, that fine. But don't impose on me how I'm supposed to feel about something, just because you "don't get it." Isn't that kind of the point of this whole discussion?

I don't really like being called "friend" by total strangers. And just because other people think I should like it and it shouldn't matter to me, that's not going to change how I personally feel.
Right - but there are clear markers around identity (with Sir or Ma'am - though, I am in a position where often people around me refer to some people as Sir - we've also had a discussion about why people are reticent to refer to people as ma'am as - where I am - there's more of an age identity marker associated with those and people are less comfortable doing that - it's all very fascinating). "Friends" has no such marker (and - I mean). "Friends" doesn't necessarily mean "my friend", which is what someone was articulating earlier. "Friends" could indicate "friends of ____" or "you have friends" (for instance, when I've worked for groups and weddings, if I'm referring to the party, I might say, "friends of ___" and "friends" interchangeably - doesn't make me part of their circle - just identifies how they're together in this place. And sure - you have a thing about not being someone's friend so I'll make sure to never call you that. For me, I have and would use friends - hearing some people's anxiety or anger about assuming friendship, I might go back to folks or everyone. And yeah, people will chafe there, too (just as people will chafe at using no terms at all and just saying, "Hi - come this way" instead of "Hi ___ - come this way." As folks have pointed out, there's no perfect solution - so, you try to find one that doesn't harm people and move forward.
 
For those who don't dream or aren't friends with strangers ... aren't there scripts used in places like Star Tours or Wilderness Canyon or wherever where there's something brought up that might not apply to you (I'm not a padawan, wookie, OR a jedi!) and you just think, "oh okay that just isn't for me" and move on (that I know of - and I realize I'm in the dark on this - padwans, jedis, etc are not gendered). Toys works awesomely in Toy Story Land - or are folks like Buzz and adamant that they're not toys!

Well, as the one who doesn't like the term "dreamer" I honestly don't care much and do just move on. I was just illustrating a point that nothing will ever apply to everyone nor make everyone happy, and the feelings of those who dislike specific terms are just as valid as anyone else's.
 
For those who don't dream or aren't friends with strangers ... aren't there scripts used in places like Star Tours or Wilderness Canyon or wherever where there's something brought up that might not apply to you (I'm not a padawan, wookie, OR a jedi!) and you just think, "oh okay that just isn't for me" and move on (that I know of - and I realize I'm in the dark on this - padwans, jedis, etc are not gendered). Toys works awesomely in Toy Story Land - or are folks like Buzz and adamant that they're not toys!

in Galaxy's Edge, you can say "recruits" at Rise of the Resistance or "crew" at Smuggler's Run.

At Pirates, I would occasionally say, "welcome buccaneers!" or some such thing.
 
Well, as the one who doesn't like the term "dreamer" I honestly don't care much and do just move on. I was just illustrating a point that nothing will ever apply to everyone nor make everyone happy, and the feelings of those who dislike specific terms are just as valid as anyone else's.

All opinions are valid.

Some opinions are more valid than others.
 
Right - but there are clear markers around identity (with Sir or Ma'am - though, I am in a position where often people around me refer to some people as Sir - we've also had a discussion about why people are reticent to refer to people as ma'am as - where I am - there's more of an age identity marker associated with those and people are less comfortable doing that - it's all very fascinating). "Friends" has no such marker (and - I mean). "Friends" doesn't necessarily mean "my friend", which is what someone was articulating earlier. "Friends" could indicate "friends of ____" or "you have friends" (for instance, when I've worked for groups and weddings, if I'm referring to the party, I might say, "friends of ___" and "friends" interchangeably - doesn't make me part of their circle - just identifies how they're together in this place. And sure - you have a thing about not being someone's friend so I'll make sure to never call you that. For me, I have and would use friends - hearing some people's anxiety or anger about assuming friendship, I might go back to folks or everyone. And yeah, people will chafe there, too (just as people will chafe at using no terms at all and just saying, "Hi - come this way" instead of "Hi ___ - come this way." As folks have pointed out, there's no perfect solution - so, you try to find one that doesn't harm people and move forward.
I believe that it’s impossible to avoid offending people because they are looking to be offended. Being offended let’s them get on some soapbox and demand that everyone change to accommodate them. It won’t be long before they are offended by being called people.
 
No. I have many visible tattoos. Not my point.

The point is Disney’s rule change was supposed to allow for a limited number of small ones being visible and that’s already totally out the window.
Remember you're supposed to be the magic now so why should it matter how a CM looks.
 
Fair enough, but there is enough outright dismissiveness on this tread to go around. It's kind of ironic really.
I hope the impact of what I've said isn't feeling dismissed - I don't want that to be the case and if it is, I apologize. I really do wonder how to find a catch-all that won't harm people and if you feel harmed by general words (and I understand it can feel that way) - the world should keep looking for something that will work. Y'all means all, to me (by which I mean, I want everyone included)
 
Right - but there are clear markers around identity (with Sir or Ma'am - though, I am in a position where often people around me refer to some people as Sir - we've also had a discussion about why people are reticent to refer to people as ma'am as - where I am - there's more of an age identity marker associated with those and people are less comfortable doing that - it's all very fascinating). "Friends" has no such marker (and - I mean). "Friends" doesn't necessarily mean "my friend", which is what someone was articulating earlier. "Friends" could indicate "friends of ____" or "you have friends" (for instance, when I've worked for groups and weddings, if I'm referring to the party, I might say, "friends of ___" and "friends" interchangeably - doesn't make me part of their circle - just identifies how they're together in this place. And sure - you have a thing about not being someone's friend so I'll make sure to never call you that. For me, I have and would use friends - hearing some people's anxiety or anger about assuming friendship, I might go back to folks or everyone. And yeah, people will chafe there, too (just as people will chafe at using no terms at all and just saying, "Hi - come this way" instead of "Hi ___ - come this way." As folks have pointed out, there's no perfect solution - so, you try to find one that doesn't harm people and move forward.

Sorry, totally strangers calling each other "friend" for PC reasons (in this case, to avoid having to use any words associated with gender, biological or otherwise) reminds me of stories of the "old country" where people also used an equivalent term for political reasons.

The more people try to convince me and shove this down my throat, that more it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

And, what's really annoying is how awkward it is to object to someone using "friend" in a way that I, personally, find inappropriate.

What am I supposed to say? "I'm not your friend, so please don't call me that?" That sounds terrible and impolite!

Whereas, if someone called me "Sir", and I identified as female, I could politely reply "I don't identify as male, so please don't call me 'Sir'." That's a completely acceptable response that doesn't sound nearly as "unfriendly" (pun intended.)

Again, could I wear a button that says "please don't call me your friend?" Well, perhaps you would, but I wouldn't.

But I could plausibly wear a button that lists my pronouns, or whatever. That's a totally socially acceptable solution.

You can go on and on about how you want to define the word "friend", and how you think other people should interpret its use. Honestly, I could care less. I know how it makes me, personally, feel to hear it being used by a total stranger. I don't like it, I have personal history that motivates that feeling, and no amount of persuasion will ever change it. Either accept it or not, that's your choice, "Friend."
 
I hope the impact of what I've said isn't feeling dismissed - I don't want that to be the case and if it is, I apologize. I really do wonder how to find a catch-all that won't harm people and if you feel harmed by general words (and I understand it can feel that way) - the world should keep looking for something that will work. Y'all means all, to me (by which I mean, I want everyone included)

Oh, I don't really think so - you're fine. It's just that in general everyone is arguing these semantics, which actually proves the point that words have different meaning sto different people, and with various degrees of power. That's why I don't think that inclusiveness can really stem from proscribed rules, but rather through conversation and actual connections between people.
 
Sorry, totally strangers calling each other "friend" for PC reasons (in this case, to avoid having to use any words associated with gender, biological or otherwise) reminds me of stories of the "old country" where people also used an equivalent term for political reasons.

The more people try to convince me and shove this down my throat, that more it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

And, what's really annoying is how awkward it is to object to someone using "friend" in a way that I, personally, find inappropriate.

What am I supposed to say? "I'm not your friend, so please don't call me that?" That sounds terrible and impolite!

Whereas, if someone called me "Sir", and I identified as female, I could politely reply "I don't identify as male, so please don't call me 'Sir'." That's a completely acceptable response that doesn't sound nearly as "unfriendly" (pun intended.)

Again, could I wear a button that says "please don't call me your friend?" Well, perhaps you would, but I wouldn't.

But I could plausibly wear a button that lists my pronouns, or whatever. That's a totally socially acceptable solution.

You can go on and on about how you want to define the word "friend", and how you think other people should interpret its use. Honestly, I could care less. I know how it makes me, personally, feel to hear it being used by a total stranger. I don't like it, I have personal history that motivates that feeling, and no amount of persuasion will ever change it. Either accept it or not, that's your choice, "Friend."
Sup peeps?!

I get it, more. I think it's like pal (not pal Mickey) or buddy. It's chummy, uncomfortably so for some people.
 
Oh, I don't really think so - you're fine. It's just that in general everyone is arguing these semantics, which actually proves the point that words have different meaning sto different people, and with various degrees of power. That's why I don't think that inclusiveness can really stem from proscribed rules, but rather through conversation and actual connections between people.
Word.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.














Save Up to 30% on Rooms at Walt Disney World!

Save up to 30% on rooms at select Disney Resorts Collection hotels when you stay 5 consecutive nights or longer in late summer and early fall. Plus, enjoy other savings for shorter stays.This offer is valid for stays most nights from August 1 to October 11, 2025.
CLICK HERE







New Posts







DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top