NO MORE free valet parking for DVC members.

[MELSMICE]

Two questions for those who want to keep the free valet parking perk for DVC members:

1. How can DVC justify raising dues at SSR, HHI, OKW & VB, VGC, et al to provide a perk / service that is not offered at those resorts? I'm not even sure they legally could.

2. Why should owners at VWL, BCV, BWV, BLT pay more in dues so that all DVC members can use the valet for free? It would make more sense to me if it were offered free only to those staying on points at the resort offering it.

If it's a perk for all DVC members, & a dues increase would have been inevitable to keep the perk then all members dues would need to be raised. Every member has the right to use the perk. Whether you choose to use it or not if your option.

I'm an OKW owner & certainly don't think that owners at VWL, BCV, BWV or BLT should be the only members that would see an increase. A DVC perk is something that can benefit all members & the cost of that should be shared by all who can take advantage.

No conspiracy. Its OK to disagree. It’s more about the decision rational. We had a perk for ten years and all the sudden, some one has to “pay to play”. I’m curious why….whats changed? I tend to question most everything.

Agreed - there was no real explanation as to what changed - of course, I could have missed it - just that dues would have increased.

The 'Complimentary' Activities would be very easy to handle as pay to play, yet those are still incorporated into our dues as well. Is that the next 'perk' to disappear?

There are many things that are easy to handle as pay to play, Internet, Activities, etc. It's strange that they would pick Valet and do so as quickly as they did. There was little to no warning/notification (yet we get those wonderful Deevy emails all the time ). It reeks of a breakdown in negotiations.

Again, agreed!

 

[Chuck S]

If it's a perk for all DVC members, & a dues increase would have been inevitable to keep the perk then all members dues would need to be raised. Every member has the right to use the perk. Whether you choose to use it or not if your option.

I'm an OKW owner & certainly don't think that owners at VWL, BCV, BWV or BLT should be the only members that would see an increase. A DVC perk is something that can benefit all members & the cost of that should be shared by all who can take advantage.

Except that dues, by law, need to reflect true resort operation cost for the resort at which we own. That is why the dues vary from resort to resort. Parking at BWV is not a cost that in any way could be considered an operational cost for OKW. It would likely be challenged, and won, by members when taken to the FL timeshare board...just as it was challenged when OKW extended the contracts and did not initially provide for lower reserve fund fees for the members that did not extend the contract.


And remember that internet service WAS pay to play for several years, until the initial investment of wiring the resorts was recouped by the vendor...THEN a lower price was negotiated that made the "free" offering (assume offset by dues) a cost efficient and viable dues option. Internet is a decreasing cost, valet is labor intensive and a constantly increasing cost.

 

[dmoore22]

While reading these posts I can't help but think of one of the laws of economics right out of the undergrad econ course and John Stuart Mill: "Opportunity Cost" which basically states you must give up something to get something. This comes into play everyday. An example would be the person who has $15 can either buy a CD or a shirt. If he buys the shirt the opportunity cost is the CD and if he buys the CD the opportunity cost is the shirt. Or a person who invests $10,000 in a stock denies herself or himself the interest that could have accrued by leaving the $10,000 in a bank account instead. The opportunity cost of the decision to invest in stock is the value of the interest.

What is the opportunity cost for DVC/DVD in giving up valet parking? At this point in time its not obvious. We've been in DVC long enough to experience the evolving/revolving perks. When we first bought in there were no AP/PAP discounts. Now we have them. With our family of 6 kids I don't know what we would do without that member perk. That perk alone makes up for the loss of valet parking with a little left over.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

valet is labor intensive and a constantly increasing cost.

Thanks Chuck, finally someone with facts-could you share the valet costs for DVC members staying at BWV each of the last 5 to 7 years since before and after ME express started? I just wrongly assumed that even with labor costs increasing-far fewer members would be driving cars (because of ME) each year to offset that and actually drive it down. TIA.

 

[Chuck S]

Thanks Chuck, finally someone with facts-could you share the valet costs for DVC members staying at BWV each of the last 5 to 7 years since before and after ME express started? I just wrongly assumed that even with labor costs increasing-far fewer members would be driving cars (because of ME) each year to offset that and actually drive it down. TIA.

Remember that there are many set costs, whether 10 cars park, or whether 100 cars park. Minimum you'd need 8 full time and 2 part time people to provide around the clock valet service at any resort. Add benefits, taxes, accounting costs, etc, and you are looking at a nice chunk of change. If paid minimum wage under FL law (even considering tips) and benefits you are likely looking at $150K+ per year, whether anyone parks or not. And if more people park, an employee would need to be added to each shift.

It still boils down to who should pay those costs, the DVC Owners through dues, or the individuals using the service. If, as you surmise, fewer people are driving, then dues would be subsiding a relatively expensive perk for fewer and fewer members.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Remember that there are many set costs, whether 10 cars park, or whether 100 cars park. Minimum you'd need 8 full time and 2 part time people to provide around the clock valet service at any resort. Add benefits, taxes, accounting costs, etc, and you are looking at a nice chunk of change. If paid minimum wage under FL law (even considering tips) and benefits you are likely looking at $150K+ per year, whether anyone parks or not. And if more people park, an employee would need to be added to each shift.

It still boils down to who should pay those costs, the DVC Owners through dues, or the individuals using the service. If, as you surmise, fewer people are driving, then dues would be subsiding a relatively expensive perk for fewer and fewer members.

Thanks Chuck, was just hoping you could share the yearly costs, but your right-if business is down 90% and it is still costing more it should be dumped.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Magical Express and garden grocer type services probably did cut the number of people renting cars from the airport and parking at Walt Disney World.

However, I submit that quite a few of the people with cars actually live within driving distance to Walt Disney World, or even live long distances but prefer to drive due to the price of airfare for entire families.

Either way, valet always seemed to have plenty to do before the valet perk ended.

 

[jdg345]

Magical Express and garden grocer type services probably did cut the number of people renting cars from the airport and parking at Walt Disney World.

However, I submit that quite a few of the people with cars actually live within driving distance to Walt Disney World, or even live long distances but prefer to drive due to the price of airfare for entire families.

Either way, valet always seemed to have plenty to do before the valet perk ended.

Agreed, which would lead us to the conclusion that the majority of those that took advantage of valet parking were DVC members.

 

[MELSMICE]

Except that dues, by law, need to reflect true resort operation cost for the resort at which we own. That is why the dues vary from resort to resort. Parking at BWV is not a cost that in any way could be considered an operational cost for OKW. It would likely be challenged, and won, by members when taken to the FL timeshare board...just as it was challenged when OKW extended the contracts and did not initially provide for lower reserve fund fees for the members that did not extend the contract.

Then why do they state that dues would have increased for all members in the information posted below which came from their web-site? (bolded)

It's on DVCMember.com under the NEWS menu:

Quote:
Complimentary valet parking for Disney Vacation Club Members at Disney Vacation Club Resorts at the Walt Disney World® Resort was discontinued effective October 11, 2009.

Similar to other fee-based services, such as additional housekeeping service or additional room amenities, only those Members who choose to valet park will be charged, instead of increasing the annual dues for all Members to cover the costs.

Self parking will continue to be complimentary at all Disney Vacation Club resorts. For drivers choosing to use the valet service, the cost is $12 a day, effective October 11, 2009. Members and Guests with disabilities will continue to receive complimentary valet parking.

Once paid, the valet parking service can be used for the entire day at any resort without paying the fee again.

 

[Chuck S]

Then why do they state that dues would have increased for all members in the information posted below which came from their web-site? (bolded)

Probably because it was self explanatory.

You'll notice they also said that:

Complimentary valet parking for Disney Vacation Club Members at Disney Vacation Club Resorts at the Walt Disney World® Resort was discontinued effective October 11, 2009.

Rather than:

Complimentary valet parking for Disney Vacation Club Members at Disney's BCV, AKV, VWL, and BLT at the Walt Disney World® Resort was discontinued effective October 11, 2009.

It was self explanatory, as there never was valet offered at OKW and SSR, even though their wording could imply that had been available at ALL WDW DVC resorts.

After all, if costs were shared between resorts, all the dues would be the same per point, regardless of the resort you own.

 

[Dean]

No conspiracy. Its OK to disagree. It’s more about the decision rational. We had a perk for ten years and all the sudden, some one has to “pay to play”. I’m curious why….whats changed? I tend to question most everything.

This is not about disagreeing per se. No one argues that we do not have specifics of the negotiations or contracts. But we do have the ultimate end points of free valet at no cost to both members and Disney before and a real cost of $12/day after that someone has to pay. IMO how much one was promised during a sales presentation or how long it's been a perk really doesn't mean much in this light. It wasn't just taken away arbitrarily though it was implemented poorly. But as I said several times earlier in this thread, if one really wants to know specifics, make a trip down to celebration and meet with DVC.

The 'Complimentary' Activities would be very easy to handle as pay to play, yet those are still incorporated into our dues as well. Is that the next 'perk' to disappear?

There are many things that are easy to handle as pay to play, Internet, Activities, etc. It's strange that they would pick Valet and do so as quickly as they did. There was little to no warning/notification (yet we get those wonderful Deevy emails all the time ). It reeks of a breakdown in negotiations.

Given the financial issues I don't see it strange at all, the strange part to me is that it was ever included. Many of us have speculated on exactly what happened and why it was implemented so quickly and none of us know why and I have not heard any second hand info that would give any explanation. My "best guess" is that there was a clause in the contract that kicked in rather than a new contract negotiation but as I said, it's a guess. Still, IMO, they should have announced it and floated it for a couple of weeks and should have been far more forthcoming as to specifics. Even if it were reasonable to pass the cost on to members, which is currently is not, it would not have been reasonable to pass it on to all members equally and likely would have only been covered by members at each resort in question.

Thanks Chuck, finally someone with facts-could you share the valet costs for DVC members staying at BWV each of the last 5 to 7 years since before and after ME express started? I just wrongly assumed that even with labor costs increasing-far fewer members would be driving cars (because of ME) each year to offset that and actually drive it down. TIA.

I don't know how they allotted the costs when it was free to all, when it was free to DVC pre ME but done by Disney nor post ME but we do know how the costs were allotted after valet was farmed out. The cost was eaten by the contractor as a requisite to get the contract. I did look over the 2003 & 2004 budgets which was pre ME but after valet was being charged to non DVC I believe and could not get a line on any cost that would likely have included valet.

I can see the rationale for spreading SOME of the cost to other members but the reality is that the cost for those that use valet while not staying at a given resort who own at non valet resorts would be a small fraction of those staying at a given resort. Owners at a given resort pay for their own fees even if those facilities are used by others and vice versa. The only way around this would be pay to play and there are resorts that charge extra utility fees or charge to use the AC or charge non members for some parking options but not members.

Agreed, which would lead us to the conclusion that the majority of those that took advantage of valet parking were DVC members.

That's likely true and I don't recall anyone suggesting that DVC members weren't a significant portion of the valet for all resorts in question but it's still a minority of the membership and likely a minority of the guests at a given resort at any one time. And it will vary by resort, at BWV you'd expect it'd be a large majority of the total cars that use valet, at VWL or BCV not so much but still an important number. However, unless it's an overwhelming majority of the membership at that resort, I don't think it's relevant to the decision in question unless there is a significant volume discount which does not currently appear to be the case.

 

[dmoore22]

Holy Cow -- It's already day 51 of this thread!!! I can't contain myself!!!!

Alas, this thread has been surpassed by the "Max Occupancy in DVC Resorts" thread. RIP Free Valet Parking.

 

[Erikarate]

COMPLAIN

Send them your complaints, until they come for something that affects YOU you sit idly by. Don't take it! Make it heard that it us unacceptable to pick our pockets on an already expensive trip.

Complain for yourself complain for us that are very affected by this change.

wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

www.dvcmembersatisfactionteam@disneyvacationclub.com

 

[Erikarate]

We hold two contracts with DVC and pay a substantial amount of dues which gets harder and harder to justify the monthly expense.

I think the vast majority will not use the valet service as at $12. per day plus tipping. Thus overtaxing an already strained self park option.

Now I have to look forward to over full self park lots as they were over full before this change and I expect it even harder to find a spot after especially at peak vacation times. Florida rains, carrying grocery bags from distant parking lots ie. Boardwalk which is across the street. Transporting small children to and from the resort....

I had already been thinking about how I had after a trip and adding up what I totally spent my pockets had been picked at every opportunity.

 

[CarolMN]

Send them your complaints, until they come for something that affects YOU you sit idly by. Don't take it! Make it heard that it us unacceptable to pick our pockets on an already expensive trip.

Complain for yourself complain for us that are very affected by this change.

wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

www.dvcmembersatisfactionteam@disneyvacationclub.com

I will not be complaining. Based on the explanations given, I support the decision to change valet parking to pay-for-play.

 

[dianeschlicht]

COMPLAIN

Send them your complaints, until they come for something that affects YOU you sit idly by. Don't take it! Make it heard that it us unacceptable to pick our pockets on an already expensive trip.

Complain for yourself complain for us that are very affected by this change.

wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

www.dvcmembersatisfactionteam@disneyvacationclub.com

I agree with Carol on this one. No need for me to complain, because even though I always rent a car, I never valet park. It's just not something I would do, and if I felt I must do it, I'd expect to pay for it.

 

[Dean]

We hold two contracts with DVC and pay a substantial amount of dues which gets harder and harder to justify the monthly expense.

I think the vast majority will not use the valet service as at $12. per day plus tipping. Thus overtaxing an already strained self park option.

Now I have to look forward to over full self park lots as they were over full before this change and I expect it even harder to find a spot after especially at peak vacation times. Florida rains, carrying grocery bags from distant parking lots ie. Boardwalk which is across the street. Transporting small children to and from the resort....

I had already been thinking about how I had after a trip and adding up what I totally spent my pockets had been picked at every opportunity.

Certainly one should complain if they feel it is appropriate to do so ANd those that feel the policy is an appropriate one should let DVC know that as well, as I have.

 

[Deb & Bill]

We hold two contracts with DVC and pay a substantial amount of dues which gets harder and harder to justify the monthly expense.

I think the vast majority will not use the valet service as at $12. per day plus tipping. Thus overtaxing an already strained self park option.

Now I have to look forward to over full self park lots as they were over full before this change and I expect it even harder to find a spot after especially at peak vacation times. Florida rains, carrying grocery bags from distant parking lots ie. Boardwalk which is across the street. Transporting small children to and from the resort....

I had already been thinking about how I had after a trip and adding up what I totally spent my pockets had been picked at every opportunity.

There's nothing to stop you from dropping off the rest of the family with the goods at the door, parking the car and going back to the room.

The biggest problem I had with the no more free valet was the way it was announced.

 

[VLee]

There's nothing to stop you from dropping off the rest of the family with the goods at the door, parking the car and going back to the room.

Unless....you are the single adult, with very small children--too small to be left alone!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Unless....you are the single adult, with very small children--too small to be left alone!

Then you pay to valet.