NO MORE free valet parking for DVC members.

One would believe that Disney/DVC would have already run the financial projections before deciding not to continue the funding, and likely they didn't show a projected significant drop off in dining revenue. Disney makes very few decisions without looking at the finances.

FWIW, my understanding was that this was more of a knee-jerk decision made during the renegotiation of the contract. I'm not sure how much projecting they actually did with this one (though I agree, most of the time they do weigh decisions out with finance).
 
With both the new and old set up a given member must decide whether to use it or not. IMO, 5-10¢ a point (my guess) is a lot to pass on to those that did not use it. Plus it's likely that ONLY the resorts that actually have valet would have been paying, not all members which likely pushes the 10¢ a point level or more. While there are items where the costs are shared by all that not everyone uses, there is NOT another item that is comparable to the valet parking that I can think of. The internet option is by far the closest and there is still a major difference there. Ultimately to me the question is why would anyone think others should pay their way. IF there are items that one feels they do not use and the costs should not be shared by all, make that case to DVC. We've already seen other items (towels, shampoo, etc) go pay to play for extras. There certainly are other areas that could do so including multiple reservation fees, cancelation fees, banking/borrowing fees, etc. The question isn't whether to draw the line but WHERE to draw the line. I wouldn't vote to have the costs shared unless there were a significant economy of scale by doing so and/or there were significant costs in enforcement and my info suggests neither is true in this situation, at least at the present time.

For those that think this should be a shared expense, what rationale would you say to those that don't think so since you'd be trying to convince the majority they should pay for the minorities costs? I don't think that "it was free before", "everyone pays for things they don't use" or "it's only an extra $15-30 out of your pocket" or similar would convince others.

There are perks that are win/win but they all cost nothing or almost nothing like dining and AP discounts. Unfortunately this particular perk is AT BEST win/lose with the majority subsidizing the minority if the costs were rolled into dues. The only question was whether those that used it were going to "lose" by having to pay the costs of whether some that didn't use it were going to lose by subsidizing those that did use it. The only way to make it win/win would be to negotiate a price that cut the TOTAL cost to around 20-30% of what the costs would have been assuming no change in volume after the price change. Of course there could be further losses such as a total loss of valet going forward as well which wouldn't surprise me at the DVC resorts in question.

The members at a given resort pay a prorated portion of transportation and other items for that resort only. If I recall correctly they use a formula that approximates the number of people occupying a given resort for each year and for the mixed use properties, prorate the costs between the DVC and none DVC component. When a given item also is shared with other resorts, they use the same formula to calculate the costs to each resort. This all came to the forefront a few years ago with transportation costs for BWV & BCV.

Well, we all do pay for many of the 'complimentary' member activities. Sure, some have an additional (usually minor) charge, but quite a few are free as Tim mentioned in a previous post. Is that next to get cut? Maybe they pull Internet back out of the mix as well.

While I agree that it would be a minority of DVC membership that uses valet, I would also say that the majority of valet parkers were DVC members; this seems to be supported by the recent antecdotal evidence. Like you said, where do you draw the line?
 
btw, as an update to my experiment:

I used TIW on (3) different days, at two different resorts to Valet Park. I did not show my TIW card when parking at the resort I'm staying at. Coincidently (?), when I look at my bill I am only charged the $12 valet fee for the nights where I did not use my TIW card. How is this possible unless they are tracking this centrally? By all accounts, I should have been charged the $12 for every day of my stay.

Next time I head out here, I'm going to try to have an ADR for each day so I can use my TIW card and see how it works out. Worst case I can expect to pay the rate, but so far so good this trip. :thumbsup2
 
Why do you think Disney originally offered DVC members free valet parking? Why would they offer such a great convenience to guests (with kitchens) to visit resorts that feature restaurants and gift shops? I think it’s the same reason Disney builds gift shops at the exit point of theme park rides…..to get you to spend money.

Then again....the elimination of the valet perk might not have anything to do with costs. It could be due to free dining. Why give free valet parking to restaurants that offer free food?
I chose not to see this as a conspiracy issue but rather the situation changed and a decision had to be made accordingly. I don't think you have to look for hidden agenda's. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you try to read between the lines on every item when the likely explanation is the obvious one. None of us know all the details either before or now other than the end result. Remember that valet used to be free for everyone. I think the more interesting question is why did they cont it free for DVC when they started charging everyone else. My guess is as a marketing tool but at the time it was all smoke and mirrors since the valet was just another Disney arm. Then the next interesting question is how were they able to keep it free when they outsourced. My guess, and it's just that, is that the contractor was desperate enough to get the contract to agree to it but now their not or at least they feel they have the upper hand in such negotiations.

Obviously, you can't please everyone, however, dues will continue to rise over the course of time. Continuing to take away benefits that people have enjoyed is not good business practice.
This is not a business decision per se, it's a timeshare maint fee expenditure decision. See above.

Yes, but did DVC/DVD confirm that dues would have gone up if free valet would have been continued?
They have privately to many people but not the numbers as well as what's posted on the website. Obviously there is a cost else no one would be complaining, what the dues would have ended up really is irrelevant. Even if due would have gone down it's still not an appropriate item to charge to the entire membership.
 

I chose not to see this as a conspiracy issue but rather the situation changed and a decision had to be made accordingly. I don't think you have to look for hidden agenda's. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you try to read between the lines on every item when the likely explanation is the obvious one. None of us know all the details either before or now other than the end result. Remember that valet used to be free for everyone. I think the more interesting question is why did they cont it free for DVC when they started charging everyone else. My guess is as a marketing tool but at the time it was all smoke and mirrors since the valet was just another Disney arm. Then the next interesting question is how were they able to keep it free when they outsourced. My guess, and it's just that, is that the contractor was desperate enough to get the contract to agree to it but now their not or at least they feel they have the upper hand in such negotiations..

I don’t see it as a conspiracy….., I think the carousel of progress / capitalism is great. I truly want to see Disney make good decisions that benefit both DVC members and the company’s future.

I think Disney kept free valet parking for DVC members because we’re most likely to travel off site. After the 10th WDW vacation, it’s not unusual to see what Orlando has to offer. Once Disney outsourced valet services, I feel they lost a tool to keep long term members on-site. If outsourcing valet parking and free dining did cause the loss of free valet parking for DVC members, its interesting how it effects DVC. Time will tell if long term DVC members spend more money off site.
 
I agree with this point. It seems many times when something is taken away that people don't use, they chime in positively with a comment like, "I didn't use it anyways, now I'm glad I don't have to pay for it". The reality is as you state: we all are paying for stuff we don't necessarily use. If perks continue to disappear, those folks that were happy about the loss of this perk may not find anyone willing to speak for them when one of 'their' perks gets removed. :confused3
IMO, a resort should look at each one of these options and weigh the positives and negatives of each option individually based on how widely the option is used, any volume savings, the cost and what the cost would be for enforcement (as a partial list). IMO every option becomes a potential to pay to play based on these factors including banking, borrowing, even housekeeping. I guess to me I haven't seen any erosion of core benefits, the rest is just fluff, IMO.

I don’t see it as a conspiracy….., I think the carousel of progress / capitalism is great. I truly want to see Disney make good decisions that benefit both DVC members and the company’s future.

I think Disney kept free valet parking for DVC members because we’re most likely to travel off site. After the 10th WDW vacation, it’s not unusual to see what Orlando has to offer. Once Disney outsourced valet services, I feel they lost a tool to keep long term members on-site. If outsourcing valet parking and free dining did cause the loss of free valet parking for DVC members, its interesting how it effects DVC. Time will tell if long term DVC members spend more money off site.
Regardless, I think you're looking for hidden meanings that simply aren't there or at least, are not a significant part of the decision. IMO it is as simple as somebody has to pay, who is it going to be. In this situation there really was only one reasonable decision, IMO, pay to play. Trying to look further for "business decisions" is not necessary in this situation and is making it a lot more complicated than it really is. And to be honest, I think it is looking for conspiracies whether one wants to label it as such or not.
 
Even if due would have gone down it's still not an appropriate item to charge to the entire membership.
Then what one thing that not every member takes advantage of would be appropriate to charge the entire membership for?
 
Then what one thing that not every member takes advantage of would be appropriate to charge the entire membership for?
The reason that this is not appropriate includes that it's an expensive item, that it's a relative small % of the guests at a given time (or the membership as a whole), that it's easy to target and not any more expensive to charge than not to. IMO there are some things that are not currently pay to play that could reasonable be. Here are a few examples of some of the common items that could be pay to play or included, it's not meant to be all inclusive and I'm sure you can come up with many others.

Pool - considered by most to be a requisite of a resort, difficult and expensive to monitor and/or charge and used by a larger % of people at least part of the time. BCV does monitor it at times and does pay to do so.

Exercise room - reasonable to do pay to play from some aspects but likely more expensive to monitor and charge than it's worth unless it's tied to a spa which is monitored anyway though I could think of ways to do so.

Trash and Towel - reasonable to do pay to play but likely a low expense overall with a significant economy of scale.

Internet - cheap, major economy of scale, used by a larger % of people.

DVD's - cheap, staff already in place that monitor it but certainly hard to argue against pay to play for such an item.

Weekly housekeeping - obviously there is a requirement for cleaning every unit but I could easily see DVC charging extra for stays that were shorter than say 3-4 nights or even less than a full week.

The list could go on. The point is that each resort must DECIDE what's appropriate to include and spread to everyone and what's appropriate to do pay to play. Conscious decisions must be made based on facts, costs, etc. There are many items that are currently pay to play including dining, water-craft, fishing excursions, certain activities, park admission, etc. And MOST of those are actually far more reasonable to include and spread the cost to everyone than is valet parking though I think we would all agree that pay to play is reasonable for all of them as well. I can think of no valid argument in favor of valet parking included unless a significant volume discount is forthcoming as a result (none is apparent at this time) and I have seen NO arguments that would support having the entire membership or all owners at a given resort pay for the use by a minority.
 
The reason that this is not appropriate includes that it's an expensive item, that it's a relative small % of the guests at a given time (or the membership as a whole), that it's easy to target and not any more expensive to charge than not to. IMO there are some things that are not currently pay to play that could reasonable be. Here are a few examples of some of the common items that could be pay to play or included, it's not meant to be all inclusive and I'm sure you can come up with many others.

Pool - considered by most to be a requisite of a resort, difficult and expensive to monitor and/or charge and used by a larger % of people at least part of the time. BCV does monitor it at times and does pay to do so.

Exercise room - reasonable to do pay to play from some aspects but likely more expensive to monitor and charge than it's worth unless it's tied to a spa which is monitored anyway though I could think of ways to do so.

Trash and Towel - reasonable to do pay to play but likely a low expense overall with a significant economy of scale.

Internet - cheap, major economy of scale, used by a larger % of people.

DVD's - cheap, staff already in place that monitor it but certainly hard to argue against pay to play for such an item.

Weekly housekeeping - obviously there is a requirement for cleaning every unit but I could easily see DVC charging extra for stays that were shorter than say 3-4 nights or even less than a full week.

The list could go on. The point is that each resort must DECIDE what's appropriate to include and spread to everyone and what's appropriate to do pay to play. Conscious decisions must be made based on facts, costs, etc. There are many items that are currently pay to play including dining, water-craft, fishing excursions, certain activities, park admission, etc. And MOST of those are actually far more reasonable to include and spread the cost to everyone than is valet parking though I think we would all agree that pay to play is reasonable for all of them as well. I can think of no valid argument in favor of valet parking included unless a significant volume discount is forthcoming as a result (none is apparent at this time) and I have seen NO arguments that would support having the entire membership or all owners at a given resort pay for the use by a minority.
I'm confused by the part of your post that I've bolded. Are you saying that you think it would be reasonable to have all members pay for others to dine, use water craft & fishing excursions & park admissions? IMO that would be unreasonable - unless you're saying offer discounts, which they do.

Offering a discount is not unreasonable at all, especially because I'm sure if there still wasn't a profit made even after the discount then it would not be offered at all.
 
Two questions for those who want to keep the free valet parking perk for DVC members:

1. How can DVC justify raising dues at SSR, HHI, OKW & VB, VGC, et al to provide a perk / service that is not offered at those resorts? I'm not even sure they legally could.

2. Why should owners at VWL, BCV, BWV, BLT pay more in dues so that all DVC members can use the valet for free? It would make more sense to me if it were offered free only to those staying on points at the resort offering it.
 
Two questions for those who want to keep the free valet parking perk for DVC members:

1. How can DVC justify raising dues at SSR, HHI, OKW & VB, VGC, et al to provide a perk / service that is not offered at those resorts? I'm not even sure they legally could.

2. Why should owners at VWL, BCV, BWV, BLT pay more in dues so that all DVC members can use the valet for free? It would make more sense to me if it were offered free only to those staying on points at the resort offering it.

I totally agree, Carol! I also can NOT believe this thread is still going!!!:eek:
 
I'm confused by the part of your post that I've bolded. Are you saying that you think it would be reasonable to have all members pay for others to dine, use water craft & fishing excursions & park admissions? IMO that would be unreasonable - unless you're saying offer discounts, which they do.

Offering a discount is not unreasonable at all, especially because I'm sure if there still wasn't a profit made even after the discount then it would not be offered at all.
I'm saying you must draw the line somewhere and that there are items CURRENTLY on each side of that line. All Inclusive resorts often provide many or all of the type of benefits I mentioned. What I'm really saying it is FAR more reasonable to pay for many of those items that you and I both agree would not be appropriate to include that you re-listed than it is to pay for valet parking though I don't think any of them should be paid for out of dues.
 
Regardless, I think you're looking for hidden meanings that simply aren't there or at least, are not a significant part of the decision. IMO it is as simple as somebody has to pay, who is it going to be. In this situation there really was only one reasonable decision, IMO, pay to play. Trying to look further for "business decisions" is not necessary in this situation and is making it a lot more complicated than it really is. And to be honest, I think it is looking for conspiracies whether one wants to label it as such or not.


No conspiracy. Its OK to disagree. It’s more about the decision rational. We had a perk for ten years and all the sudden, some one has to “pay to play”. I’m curious why….whats changed? I tend to question most everything.
 
No conspiracy. Its OK to disagree. It’s more about the decision rational. We had a perk for ten years and all the sudden, some one has to “pay to play”. I’m curious why….whats changed? I tend to question most everything.

We can look at it as if one of two things happened:

The contract renewed. When the third parties were bidding to get the contract for Valet from Disney, this particular vendor kept the perk in to entice Disney to chose them. Now that they're in and it's renegotiation time, they decided to pull it back out.

The other option, simply, is that DVD Marketing decided they weren't going to subsidize this anymore.

It's interesting that this coincided with the increase. And as Disney has a revenue sharing agreement with the vendor, it's in their best interest to charge for this.

IMO, this was due to economic reasons, Disney figured they could stem some losses and make a few dollars here. I don't believe Disney can technically 'profit' on Member Dues, so to fund it through Transportation wouldn't have met both of their goals.
 
I'm saying you must draw the line somewhere and that there are items CURRENTLY on each side of that line. All Inclusive resorts often provide many or all of the type of benefits I mentioned. What I'm really saying it is FAR more reasonable to pay for many of those items that you and I both agree would not be appropriate to include that you re-listed than it is to pay for valet parking though I don't think any of them should be paid for out of dues.

The 'Complimentary' Activities would be very easy to handle as pay to play, yet those are still incorporated into our dues as well. Is that the next 'perk' to disappear? :confused3

There are many things that are easy to handle as pay to play, Internet, Activities, etc. It's strange that they would pick Valet and do so as quickly as they did. There was little to no warning/notification (yet we get those wonderful Deevy emails all the time :sad2:). It reeks of a breakdown in negotiations. :confused3
 



















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