No Debates About The Illegal Immigrants Issue?

[ducklite]

I don't understand this. Why would you want to extend this much power to the government? Should this be law?

It is in Canada , and it's working very well to protect their citizen's from unemployment issues due to immigrants taking job for less money. I think it's a good idea. It protects jobs while still allowing employers to hire from outside the country if they can prove the inability to find a suitable employee from the pool of talent already here. It's not allowing the government to set prevailing wages. It's allowing the government to protect jobs.

Anne

 

[Independent]

We also live in an area highly populated by illegal immigrants. I know our "legal" teenagers have a heck of a time finding part time work due to the fact that all the traditional jobs that teenagers used to do - ie: fast food and other lower pay jobs are now all being taken by the illegal immigrants. The city has had to implement all sorts of teen programs, costing even more tax dollars, to help teens find jobs. Most would give their eye teeth to take on some of those lower paid jobs to help save for college expenses or just plain adult life.

I also find it a sad commentary on our country that we "need" to exploit our foreign neighbors to survive because supposedly our own people will not do the trash jobs.

 

[ducklite]

We also live in an area highly populated by illegal immigrants. I know our "legal" teenagers have a heck of a time finding part time work due to the fact that all the traditional jobs that teenagers used to do - ie: fast food and other lower pay jobs are now all being taken by the illegal immigrants. The city has had to implement all sorts of teen programs, costing even more tax dollars, to help teens find jobs. Most would give their eye teeth to take on some of those lower paid jobs to help save for college expenses or just plain adult life.

I also find it a sad commentary on our country that we "need" to exploit our foreign neighbors to survive because supposedly our own people will not do the trash jobs.

The problem is NOT immigrants. It's NOT jobs. It's the employers hiring undocumented workers. If the INS would only enforce the laws already in place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I don't think that allowing people to come in to this country legally and work at jobs that an employer has not been able to fill with suitable candidates already here is exploitation. They would be paid a prevailing wage. Taxed but for that receive benefits and service. Is that wage enough to buy a corvette with? No, but it is enough to live on in a manner better than how they are living in their country of origin. And if they play by the rules they might eventually have the opportunity to live here permantly and build a future for themselves and their families.

Anne

 

[Independent]

I remember back in the 50s and early 60s when the immigration department actually did raids on employers they knew were employing illegals. The illegals were sent home and the employers fined big time.

They could make huge dent in the problem by simply targeting a few industries in this country that are known to employ illegals. The building industry alone should be targeted and fined big time. Yes, we might see an increase in house prices for awhile because the builders would actually have to hire legal qualified workers and pay them a decent wage and benefits. It would all settle out in the end, because the builders can't stay in business if houses are so expensive no one buys them. The legal workers would put money back into the system. The excuse that we need illegal workers to keep industry going in this country is just that, an excuse.

I'll probably get flamed for this next statement. This country is a melting pot formed by people from many parts of the world. I love that fact. We've have a rich history from many cultures. Now, at least in this area, I see that blend of cultures being smothered by one culture.

The media and businesses are starting to cater to this culture because of their large numbers. While I enjoy hearing a foreign language spoken occasionally, I don't think English should become the second language of this country. To tell you the truth, I am really sick of hearing Latin music blaring everywhere I go. Do to the building going on behind me, I wake up to it each morning.

I encourage controlled numbers of immigrants from around the world to make the US their home. I don't want the current culture of this country to be drowned out in a wave of Hispanic illegals.

You won't be flamed by me. I too am sorry to see the wonderful melting pot of cultures deteriorating in this country.

Which is why it pains me to agree with the Shrub on the guest worker policy. But open it up to all countries, not just Latin America. I like the idea of controlling the inflow to jobs available, and for the guests to be paying taxes for extras such as medical care and education.

We also need to provide support to our legal guests to help them asimilate in our country better. I often wonder how many additional taxes it now takes to print everything, from road signs to every legal document, in two languages rather than providing intense English as a second language training for our guests.

 

[Independent]

The problem is NOT immigrants. It's NOT jobs. It's the employers hiring undocumented workers. If the INS would only enforce the laws already in place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I don't think that allowing people to come in to this country legally and work at jobs that an employer has not been able to fill with suitable candidates already here is exploitation. They would be paid a prevailing wage. Taxed but for that receive benefits and service. Is that wage enough to buy a corvette with? No, but it is enough to live on in a manner better than how they are living in their country of origin. And if they play by the rules they might eventually have the opportunity to live here permantly and build a future for themselves and their families.

Anne

Anne,

I fully agree with you, just probably did not word it correctly. I do find it awful that companies "claim" that no one will fill their jobs and they just HAVE to exploit our neighbors with lower wages and no benefits, just to put more profits in their pockets.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The problem is NOT immigrants. It's NOT jobs. It's the employers hiring undocumented workers. If the INS would only enforce the laws already in place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But Anne--the whole "well who will do the work for a pittance then" is the justification that others have presented for not putting up a wall and just leaving the illegals alone (aka--let them keep crossing over illegally).

If they want to work in a cornfield, or Publix, or in health care or whatever---it needs to be LEGAL.


the exploitation is turning a blind eye to the problem and letting the infiltration continue.


Whoever wants to work at Mcdonalds--be my guess. Get a SSN or TaxID and pay your gosh durn taxes!

 

[Feralpeg]

Just an interesting fact I heard on the local news this evening. The Hispanic population in the Orlando area has increased 48 percent in the last two years. Unfortunately, 30 percent of the population in the Orlando area cannot find adequate housing. I'm not sure what they mean exactly by "adequate", but I doubt it is fancy. What will happen to this area if this trend continues. I love living in Orlando. I'd hate to see it decline because two many people coming into the area making low wages that forces multiple families to live in rundown areas.

 

[Charade]

The problem is NOT immigrants. It's NOT jobs. It's the employers hiring undocumented workers. If the INS would only enforce the laws already in place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I don't think that allowing people to come in to this country legally and work at jobs that an employer has not been able to fill with suitable candidates already here is exploitation. They would be paid a prevailing wage. Taxed but for that receive benefits and service. Is that wage enough to buy a corvette with? No, but it is enough to live on in a manner better than how they are living in their country of origin. And if they play by the rules they might eventually have the opportunity to live here permantly and build a future for themselves and their families.

Anne

The problem is people breaking the law. This includes BOTH the illegal aliens, and the employers. If the employers didn't have a pool of illegal aliens to draw from, they would have to find workers elsewhere. They would have to pay prevailing wages. Right now, prevailing wages is what the illegals are willing to accept. I've heard that they even turn down work because the pay is too low.

I don't understand why you seem to be giving the illegal aliens a pass.

 

[bsnyder]

You won't be flamed by me. I too am sorry to see the wonderful melting pot of cultures deteriorating in this country.

The cult of multiculturalism in this country no longer ascribe to the "melting pot" theory. That's been replaced by the "salad bowl" theory. And it's had very negative implications on our country for legal immigation as well.

 

[ducklite]

You won't be flamed by me. I too am sorry to see the wonderful melting pot of cultures deteriorating in this country.

Which is why it pains me to agree with the Shrub on the guest worker policy. But open it up to all countries, not just Latin America. I like the idea of controlling the inflow to jobs available, and for the guests to be paying taxes for extras such as medical care and education.

The Shrub? Love it!

I agree, I think that we should allow workers from other countries in as well, under the same guidelines and restrictions, and ONLY when there is a provable need for that type of worker. In other words, we do NOT need any more technical workers from Asian and Eastern European countries, we've got too many highly skilled technical workers on unemployment or under employed here already. British teachers willing to teach in inner city schools? Bring 'em on! Medical technicians from Singapore? The door's wide open! Laborer's from (insert name of third world country here) why not?

We also need to provide support to our legal guests to help them asimilate in our country better. I often wonder how many additional taxes it now takes to print everything, from road signs to every legal document, in two languages rather than providing intense English as a second language training for our guests.

I agree with this. I DO NOT like the idea of spending a single DIME of tax payer money to print signs in dual languages. No one did it for our forefathers, and we've all made out just fine. If private companies wish to do so, that is their perogative. And for the record, the company I work for prints a lot of things dual-language. That is our choice.

Anne

 

[tuckerkeys]

i live in a tourist area, and yes we have a lot of "illegals". What i have found interesting is that as a business owner, MANY of these "illegals" have working papers!!! we ALL know that they are probably falsified, but our local economy where i live depend on them so much that they are even working for local govt!! ( trash removal, public works) they have the 'papers" to work, and i'm sure the names on them aren't their real names. they also have bank accts, ss#'s , CARS, insurance..... it seems as if in my area there are 3 states where the paperwork comes from. PA, WI and MI. apparently in these 3 states it is easy to get working papers in ???...... we have a huge problem in my area where nobody wants to work " entry level" jobs in restaurants, landscaping etc etc....they are the backbone of our local economy. our local business' have even had meetings about what to do when presented w/ papers that they suspected were false, and we were advised NOT to cause a stir, b/c if they were indeed legal and we accused them of not being legal, we could have a potential lawsuit!!! can you believe this!!! so everyone around here hires "illegals" with "papers" that may or may not be legal--they just look the other way. one person i know hired a kid who was no more than 18 but his "papers" said he was in his 30's....hummm....

 

[ducklite]

But Anne--the whole "well who will do the work for a pittance then" is the justification that others have presented for not putting up a wall and just leaving the illegals alone (aka--let them keep crossing over illegally).

If they want to work in a cornfield, or Publix, or in health care or whatever---it needs to be LEGAL.


the exploitation is turning a blind eye to the problem and letting the infiltration continue.


Whoever wants to work at Mcdonalds--be my guess. Get a SSN or TaxID and pay your gosh durn taxes!

I agree 100%, all workers need to be documented. I never said they didn't. My point is that we need to crack down on those already here illegally and toss 'em out. Then we need to allow only those in who we've got jobs for--jobs we can't find citizens to fill at a prevailing wage. But we can't shut the doors entirely, we do need to allow "laborer's" who are documented in to work.

Anne

 

[bsnyder]

My point is that we need to crack down on those already here illegally and toss 'em out.
Anne

That's a non-starter, politically. It'll never happen.

 

[ducklite]

Just an interesting fact I heard on the local news this evening. The Hispanic population in the Orlando area has increased 48 percent in the last two years. Unfortunately, 30 percent of the population in the Orlando area cannot find adequate housing. I'm not sure what they mean exactly by "adequate", but I doubt it is fancy. What will happen to this area if this trend continues. I love living in Orlando. I'd hate to see it decline because two many people coming into the area making low wages that forces multiple families to live in rundown areas.

They need to throw out the undocumented ones, and only allow back those who we've got jobs for--legally and after a search has been exhausted to hire citizen's.

Housing issues in Orlando aren't limited to immigrants and the poor. The area is growing more rapidly than builders can build, and that's driving housing prices up dramatically. While it's going to have the biggest impact on the poor, it's affecting middle class families as well. The population boom in this are is not restricted to poor hispanic illegal aliens. Thousands of Brits and northerners are moving in just as fast. While some are wealthy, just as many of the "Northerners" are middle income or lower middle income looking for a fresh start in the land of Mickey. We both see it every week on these boards.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

The problem is people breaking the law. This includes BOTH the illegal aliens, and the employers. If the employers didn't have a pool of illegal aliens to draw from, they would have to find workers elsewhere. They would have to pay prevailing wages. Right now, prevailing wages is what the illegals are willing to accept. I've heard that they even turn down work because the pay is too low.

I don't understand why you seem to be giving the illegal aliens a pass.

I'm not! I think anyone caught here illegally needs a fast pass to the nearest border! But the best way to find them is to crack down on the employers. The harder the mployers are squeezed to not hire illegals, the more difficult it will be for them to find work, and some will leave. Others won't but when the word gets passed back home that there are no jobs for undocumented aliens, they will stop coming illegally.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

That's a non-starter, politically. It'll never happen.

It will if the citizens who vote send a loud and clear message to Washington.

Anne

 

[bsnyder]

It will if the citizens who vote send a loud and clear message to Washington.

Anne

I disagree. I don't think we have a majority who thinks the illegals should be thrown out. And just wait until the MSM starts doing non-stop sob stories on the individual people we're threatening to send back. Our collective guilt trip, irrational as it may be, would be too much to bear.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I disagree. I don't think we have a majority who thinks the illegals should be thrown out. And just wait until the MSM starts doing non-stop sob stories on the individual people we're threatening to send back. Our collective guilt trip, irrational as it may be, would be too much to bear.

Yep.

A chorus of "This is not how we should be treated in America".


Well--we who are here legally are not treated like that.


One thing that would work is clean slate. Unfortunately--it would be announced that those here as of this date are given amnesty. Then there would be a rush for the border before it closes.

It would have to be an "as of today" type thing.

It is our country's right to protect its borders.

And unfortunately--from what others are saying is that the amnesty thing has been done....so it is a huge circle.

Those who do not support border control (the wall) and wants the illegals left alone (i.e. keep saving those who come illegally)--should be responsible for their welfare.

 

[bicker]

The problem is NOT immigrants. It's NOT jobs.

The problem is people breaking the law.

There is nothing that is "the problem." There are a variety of problems, and all of these things mentioned are indeed problems, including breaking the law. So many people have no compunction against working the system, regardless of the context, to get an advantage to themselves, regardless of the expense to others.

 

[ducklite]

I don't think a wall would help, there are illegals here from hundreds of nations, and most of them didn't cross over the Mexican border.

The problem needs to be gotten to at the root--with the employers. Make it so expensive to be caught and perhaps punishable with jail for an employer that they will stop hiring illegals.

Once there are no jobs, there will be no reason to come.

I also like the idea of no automatic citizenship for children born here...although here's an interesting scenario:

I know a girl who was born here in the US to a US citizen dad and a naturailized Dominican mom. She married a Dominican man and lives in the DR. When she was seven months pregnant with each child, she flew back to the US to have the children. Not having insurance, she applied for Welfare, saying the childrens father had abandoned her in the DR. So Welfare paid for her to have her babies in US hospitals and they received US birth certificates/citizenship. Now due to the mothers US citizenship, I don't have a problem with the children getting US citizenship. But I do have a problem with Welfare paying for her medical care.

Anne