NJ - Education Crisis

[shelly3girls]

The district I work in is 100%, as are many Bergen County schools. Schools with lower % cuts are generally Abbott/City Districts. As for condensing smaller districts into 1 large regional district, it is a great idea, but the way to go about that is not to completely cut state funding. Christie could have restructured districts instead. It truly is the students, who will suffer now, but I guess Christie doesn't care because his own children are in private schools.

This was proposed several years ago and shot down very quickly. There was total public outrage. People don't want high taxes but they don't want to lose their small town schools either.

 

[allison443]

I understand the need for cuts. I'm willing to take cuts. Freeze my salary. Lower my salary by 1%, 3%, 5% even! Make me pay a little more towards my health benefits.

You sound reasonable...however, in my town, on the day the cuts were announced, the union president announced that there is absolutely NO WAY our teachers would accept any pay cuts or benefit changes, nor would they forego the raise they are getting for the next three years. That is also the sentiment of individual teachers here.

I am sorry for what you are going through. I bet if teachers and parents got together, they would find many areas to cut.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I'm in a K-8 district as a music teacher.
My job is in jeopardy if the budget doesn't pass.

We're losing over $1million in funds from the state. This translates to laying off all teacher aides, cafeteria help, part-time teachers and 11-15 full time TENURED teachers, elimination of sports, music, extra-curricular programs like homework club, National Junior Honor Society and more.

I've been teaching in my district for 12 years. I am devastated at the prospect of losing my job because it's going to mean that we're going to have to sell our house or go into foreclosure/bankruptcy or move out of state (which I'm not opposed to, but I have two young children with friends here and they'd be heartbroken) or collect unemployment or get some kind of job that would cover our bills. Forget vacations, eating out, gifts for the kids, birthday parties....I mean things we take for granted will now be things we struggle to do.

Christie should cut salaries of the top paid people in his office AND tax their earnings. Why do the middle class suffer for their greed!?!?

The children of the state of NJ are going to be in larger classes, which will not be a good thing. They will lose the opportunity for sports and music programs that allow students to reach goals and even earn college scholarships for their abilities.

Don't think "oh 5% is not a lot." It's a lot and enough to make education in the state plummet!

It is really, really disheartening, frusturating and so, so sad.

Well I would fire you in a heartbeat. Music has no place in a school system that is strapped for cash. I want my taxes to go to reading, math, science.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Oh so that's the answer, some kind of "survival of the fitess" death match. If your kid doesn't pass the "able" specifics, oops sorry we don't feel like he's viable so we're going to kick them out.

That experiment was tried in Russia with millions of oprhans left in their cribs also. That proved to be a huge failure also.

So I'll officially go on record as saying that I rather live in a broke state rather then ever discard a person because they are no longer deemed "worth" educating.

Oh please - there are kids in schools who have NO business being there. Heck - go to the Disabilities board and you will see what I mean.

Kids who will never learn the alphabet, or how to read or basic math. Why are they in school? Children who do not know the material should never be able to move up to the next grade.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Well I would fire you in a heartbeat. Music has no place in a school system that is strapped for cash. I want my taxes to go to reading, math, science.

If you are trying to do away with music as a whole, then the NJCCC would have to be revised, b/c music is part of the NJCCC.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Oh please - there are kids in schools who have NO business being there. Heck - go to the Disabilities board and you will see what I mean.

Kids who will never learn the alphabet, or how to read or basic math. Why are they in school? Children who do not know the material should never be able to move up to the next grade.

I am not so sure you would be saying this if your child was classified as having some sort of disability.
So, if my child has downs, my child should not receive some sort of an education? Even if her education is slightly different focusing moreso on life skills (which includes basic math and reading) than on algebra? Give me a break, I'm sick reading your comment!

 

[shelly3girls]

I think you're incorrect.

I understand the need for cuts. I'm willing to take cuts. Freeze my salary. Lower my salary by 1%, 3%, 5% even! Make me pay a little more towards my health benefits.

But cut my position so that big shots up in Trenton can make over $400k per year and not be taxed on it? That, my friend, is where the problem is. GREED!!! So if you're one of those lucky ones that's making oodles of $$$ and have been reprieved of your tax responsibilities, good for you.

Don't judge until you walk in the shoes of those going through the crisis.

I have seen several references to those over $400k not paying taxes. This post says "in Trenton" but others have been more general. Tax cuts for the wealthy? Can someone provide a link with more information?

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I am not so sure you would be saying this if your child was classified as having some sort of disability.
So, if my child has downs, my child should not receive some sort of an education? Even if her education is slightly different focusing moreso on life skills (which includes basic math and reading) than on algebra? Give me a break, I'm sick reading your comment!

Yes to some sort of education - with others at the same ability level. Not in a school. Some place where they can learn life skills.
NOT in a classroom with non-special ed students.

 

[allison443]

We're losing over $1million in funds from the state. This translates to laying off all teacher aides, cafeteria help, part-time teachers and 11-15 full time TENURED teachers, elimination of sports, music, extra-curricular programs like homework club, National Junior Honor Society and more.

Two of the extra curriculars you mention seem completely expendable to me.

National Junior Honor Society-what is that? Just have an honor roll, post it on the bulletin board or whatever. Cost is free!

Homework club-what is that? Kids stay after school to get help with their homework? My dd's Catholic school has that, a teacher stays after school (unpaid ) and they have peer tutoring-older kids helping younger kids. Cost is free!

How much could those two things possibly cost? Is the cost for the teacher to stay after school and be the moderator?

I can't imagine that's going to be a big savings. Wait until we hear the outcry when districts try to cut something like football.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Yes to some sort of education - with others at the same ability level. Not in a school. Some place where they can learn life skills.
NOT in a classroom with non-special ed students.

But I am pretty sure if everyone is trying so hard and wishing to cut out the special ed programs then that includes these life skills types of programs that children are sent out for. AND if your trying to rid these children and say that they do not have a right to a public education then isn't that like...segregation? Didn't we deal with that in the 60s?

 

[luvsJack]

Been reading through the comments and I may have missed the answer to my question but for all of you that think that the schools should stop teaching the disabled, what exactly do you propose happens to them?

If they are not taught life skills in school; where should they be taught? And how do you think that is going to be cheaper on the state than teaching them in school? All parents cannot provide that kind of assistance for their child, so before you say "its the parents responsibility"; what happens to those who cannot afford it? Will it not cost more in the long run if the state has to provide care for all these future adults who would have learned to take care of themselves in school?

And if it is the responsibility of the parents of a disabled child to provide education; is it not then the responsibility of ALL parents to provide their child's education? Maybe they should just start charging tuition for all children in public school? Would that not be more fair?

 

[JoiseyMom]

I think you're incorrect.

I understand the need for cuts. I'm willing to take cuts. Freeze my salary. Lower my salary by 1%, 3%, 5% even! Make me pay a little more towards my health benefits.

But cut my position so that big shots up in Trenton can make over $400k per year and not be taxed on it? That, my friend, is where the problem is. GREED!!! So if you're one of those lucky ones that's making oodles of $$$ and have been reprieved of your tax responsibilities, good for you.

Don't judge until you walk in the shoes of those going through the crisis.

As a parent of school age children I applaud you for being willing to take cuts. Unfortunately your Union is destroying everything! I think wage freezes and cuts in salaries and no more tenure and no more unions and cuts in adminstrative salaries would go a long way.. but the NJEA will never agree. The NJEA turned down about 500 million in fed aid last year. Not sure of all the details..but the NJEA has to go!

We need to cut..soemthing has to be done. I have a local regional school district for k-8 and a rather larger regional district for HS.

I see lots of waste in my DD middle school. When I went on the tour 2 years ago, I was like...wth..why do they have a fitness center, with an arcade DDR?? Umm...parents can't pay for the kids to join a gym? There is no need for this in the school.

I also think cuts can be made in sports and after school activities. If you kid wants to join a team..fine..but you pay! Will it happen..I doubt it.

I didn't vote for Christie (or Corzine for that matter), but Christie is making some hard choices. The money isn't there. You can't spend what they don't have.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Been reading through the comments and I may have missed the answer to my question but for all of you that think that the schools should stop teaching the disabled, what exactly do you propose happens to them?

If they are not taught life skills in school; where should they be taught? And how do you think that is going to be cheaper on the state than teaching them in school? All parents cannot provide that kind of assistance for their child, so before you say "its the parents responsibility"; what happens to those who cannot afford it? Will it not cost more in the long run if the state has to provide care for all these future adults who would have learned to take care of themselves in school?

And if it is the responsibility of the parents of a disabled child to provide education; is it not then the responsibility of ALL parents to provide their child's education? Maybe they should just start charging tuition for all children in public school? Would that not be more fair?[/QUOTE]

Ditto, I was just thinking the same thing!

 

[IDoDis]

We're not asking them to fix any thing. we are simply asking for the same thing every other citizen gets. Why shouldn't a child with disabities get the same opportunity a so called "normal" child gets? If my child goes to public school he is entitled to the same level of education as a fully abled child. I believe the ADA ensures that.

Sorry if you believe a child with autism should some how be able to thrown in a class room and simple "deal" with the class.

Why do I have to bail out the casinoes? why can't the owners fix them, themselves. why is the government so happy to "fix" trump but not a kid with a physical disability?

 

[agnes!]

I'm in a K-8 district as a music teacher.
My job is in jeopardy if the budget doesn't pass. ...

The children of the state of NJ are going to be in larger classes, which will not be a good thing. They will lose the opportunity for sports and music programs that allow students to reach goals and even earn college scholarships for their abilities.

Don't think "oh 5% is not a lot." It's a lot and enough to make education in the state plummet!

It is really, really disheartening, frusturating and so, so sad.

Well I would fire you in a heartbeat. Music has no place in a school system that is strapped for cash. I want my taxes to go to reading, math, science.

What makes you think that music doesn't help teach some of these subjects? Your statements imply that there is some sort of hierarchical order and that reading, math and science somehow outrank mere lowly music and that there are no connections to be forged between these four subjects.

Before you confine "music" to the trashbin of subjects to be discarded, maybe take a look at these links with a rather more open mind...
http://members.cox.net/mathmistakes/music.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics
http://cnx.org/content/m11638/latest/

Music is based on precision, based on fractions, based on rhythms, has different Bases as a foundation for counting out measure....oh, wait that's *another* mathematical principle in one of the lowly arts. oops.

And teaching reading...well, let's get rid of all the plays...can't have those...no Shakespeare, no Arthur Miller, no Samuel Beckett...let's not teach any form of public speaking or performance, let's not have any plays or any music or any band or even any banging on found instruments...let's not teach children how American music was informed and formed by all its immigrants - the various cultures that gave rise to the blues, the only true American musical form, let's not teach them how clogging and tap-dancing are related, let's not teach them the ways the call & response forms of music from the African-Americans continues to have an influence on our popular music today...
LET'S NOT TEACH THEM.

Yes to some sort of education - with others at the same ability level. Not in a school. Some place where they can learn life skills.
NOT in a classroom with non-special ed students.

What makes you think that your way would be cheaper? Having a separate system or building for these children seems to me to be but one more redundancy placed upon a system that already duplicates so many efforts.

Yes, we can do oh so much better for our children, but in my opinion painting the arts with the broad brush of prejudice is not the best way to do so. I think that eliminating some of the sheer aggravating bluk of administrators would do much toward improving the health of all our schools for all our children.

agnes!

 

[scanne]

Well I would fire you in a heartbeat. Music has no place in a school system that is strapped for cash. I want my taxes to go to reading, math, science.

Wow. You are a gem. Thanks!

Why don't you take the time to read how the arts actually help students perform better in their math, reading and science classes. That music teaches discipline, critical thinking, plus they learn to appreciate the finer things in life - which sadly is a skill that (proven by your heartless comment) is in dire need of being learned.

Shame on you for not seeing the big picture and shame on you for being crass, heartless and ignorant as to WHY schools teach so many subjects.

Music is mandated by the state of NJ as a Core Curriculum Standard for grades K-12.
The following is a sampling of information regarding the positive benefits music has on a child’s
life. We hope you take the time to review the list.
* Music majors are the most likely group of college grads to be admitted to medical school.
~Lewis Thomas, Case for Music in the Schools, Phi Delta Kappa, 1994
* Students who participate in school band or orchestra have the lowest levels of current and
lifelong use of alcohol, tobacco and illicit drugs among any group in our society.
~ H. Con. Res. 266, United States Senate, June 13, 2000
* High school music students have been shown to hold higher grade point averages (GPA) than
non-musicians in the same school.
~ National Educational Longitudinal Study of 1988
* 78% of Americans feel learning a musical instrument helps students perform better in other
subjects.
~ Gallup Poll, "American Attitudes Toward Music," 2003
* Nine out of ten adults and teenagers who play instruments agree that music making brings the
family closer together.
~ Music Making and Our Schools, American Music Conference, 2000
* With music in schools, students connect to each other better-greater camaraderie, fewer fights,
less racism and reduced use of hurtful sarcasm.
~ Eric Jensen, Arts With the Brain in Mind, 2001
* 71% of Americans surveyed by the Gallup Poll believe that teenagers who play an instrument
are less likely to have disciplinary problems.
~ Gallup Poll, "American Attitudes Toward Music," 2003
* A study of 7,500 university students revealed that music majors scored the highest reading
scores among all majors including English, biology, chemistry and math.
~ The Case for Music in the Schools, Phi Delta Kappa, 1994
Also, to those people who propose that the special needs students get educated elsewhere, I'll have you know that I teach autistic children, downs children, asperger's children, etc. that are mainstreamed into my music classes. And do you know what? They THRIVE in there! They love music and performing! They learn to be more confident, they learn life skills, they learn to share but most importantly, they learn that they are ACCEPTED MEMBERS OF OUR SCHOOL COMMUNITY which is a wonderful thing!

So shame on all of you who want to throw out funding to these children's needs, that think music is 'fluff' and think that the only valuable subjects are math, reading and science.

All subjects have their importance and their value. Students are ALL different whether they're regular ed, special ed, classified, etc. You never know when a child will find his/her strengths - it may be that child who is successful in a music classroom, art classroom, technology classroom and then takes that confidence and applies it to other subject areas.

It takes compassion and understanding and a willingness to help kids succeed to be a great teacher. No matter the subject. And education is not black or white. It's a colorful rainbow of opportunity and some of the comments I have read on this thread show how ignorant so many people are when it comes to their ideas of what "a good education" is all about.

So again, shame on you for your ignorance.

I hope I can stay in my field as a music teacher because I know that I make a difference in the lives of children. And that, my friends, is what being a good teacher is all about!

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I live in NJ and I don't have children, but I do support public education and always have. NJ ranks very high nationally for our achievements in education, K-12. Many people (parents, teachers, tax payers, etc) have had a hand in helping NJ raise the public education bar.

Been reading through the comments and I may have missed the answer to my question but for all of you that think that the schools should stop teaching the disabled, what exactly do you propose happens to them?

If they are not taught life skills in school; where should they be taught? And how do you think that is going to be cheaper on the state than teaching them in school? All parents cannot provide that kind of assistance for their child, so before you say "its the parents responsibility"; what happens to those who cannot afford it? Will it not cost more in the long run if the state has to provide care for all these future adults who would have learned to take care of themselves in school?

And if it is the responsibility of the parents of a disabled child to provide education; is it not then the responsibility of ALL parents to provide their child's education? Maybe they should just start charging tuition for all children in public school? Would that not be more fair?

I agree with your post 100%.

Again, I don't have kids, but I think the primary focus of public education is to educate our children to a minimum level, and if the funding is there to advance past that, then that is extra.

I don't agree with cutting the special needs programs. Sure there are some kids that will never learn to a miminum level, but there are many kids that do. The early intervention programs are having great results, and I have personally seen kids with autism and other learning challenges being streamlined into regular classes because they received extra attention early. My neighbors son is autistic and started school at 3. He will be mainstreamed next year, and I personally know several families where the results have been the same. For the disabled that will never meet the minimum requirements, maybe we do need to come up with a different game plan. These kids still need help and services, and not all parents have the money for these programs.

I'm just so surprised at how some people have no understanding or empathy for special needs kids.

I hope the BOE's are able to cut from the administrative side first, before they touch the programs that directly help the kids.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...And if it is the responsibility of the parents of a disabled child to provide education; is it not then the responsibility of ALL parents to provide their child's education? Maybe they should just start charging tuition for all children in public school? Would that not be more fair?

This is how it should work, but collectivists will never allow it. Stop collecting these taxes and let the parents pay for thier children's education. The poor can be given a stipend or grant for this purpose. It would improve schools, as they would be forced to survive in a competitive market, and all things in private industry are more efficient than the same things run by the government, so the costs would go down (overall).

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...I'm just so surprised at how some people have no understanding or empathy for special needs kids...

This isn't about empathy. Do you really believe that?

This is about facing reality. We cannot continue walking down this path. It leads to ruin.

 

[pixiedust23]

Wouldn't that choice be the parents to make? Why is it someone else's responsibility? Why does the government have to attempt to fix everything?

When Christie completes his budget cuts, including police and emergency services and you call because someone is breaking into your home, and get an automated message telling you to wait b/c they are understaffed, remember that you wanted everything to be your own responsibility. So please purchase the gun this country entitles you to and protect yourself my friend, b/c you clearly don't want any help from the government.

As for special needs children, how dare you. Do you realize how lucky you are not to have a special needs child, if you don't. Each child is entitled to an education here in America. I'm not saying that this country hasn't gone IEP and 504 crazy, but how can you turn your back on people who don't even have the capacity to fight you back or defend themselves.