New Sorcerer Pass - Does it require a blue member card?

But, they are only going to pay for them if it helps the bottom line at the end of the day---and the thing that pays for DVD's bottom line is new timeshare sales, not existing members. I suspect offering the 2nd-tier pass is going to be enough of a carrot for Guides to make hay out of, and that's all DVD needs.

I have no idea what the numbers are -- but I'd suspect current members purchase quite a few more points than new members do in any given year.

Don't forget that you can't just look at the revenue side of the ledger. The cost of getting a new member to sign up is A LOT higher than the cost to get a current member to add more points.
 
We have the economic disaster due to the pandemic and the 50th. In the past, Disney has always viewed both economic disasters and big Disney celebrations as reasons to raise prices significantly on just about everything (including DVC point prices). Now we have the combination of both those events so what we are seeing, such as an effectively a 38% price increase for the gold pass when you consider you now have to pay extra for photo pass, and the addition of the Genie+ and separate other ride prices to add to your ticket price, is undoubtedly just the beginning.

meanwhile, back at the Disney board room.

Smiling%20Leo%20Perfect%20GIF.gif
 
Disney tracks dollars spent per guest in hotels and increased revenue for admissions and experiences in their annual report every year. Year over year it has gone up around 5% - 7% (looking at 2019 and not 2020 obviously). Disney knows who their guests are, how much they spend, how often they come and how to maximize that profit. To me, what this says is Disney knows that the biggest bang for their buck is the once in a lifetime to once a year guests. Like it or not, this AP system, with blackout dates, reservation requirements and higher costs (not to mention the fine print that they could sell out) is going to continue to cater to the once a year guest and not the 15+ day per year guest. You can get the same bottom dollar if you had twice as many people at half the cost or twice as much cost with half the people. They are definitely moving to lower people at higher costs and probably have a reason for it.

They also know exactly their demand and this pandemic probably gives them a very long runway to get this accepted since vacationing is so stacked up and demand for travel is high. Look at the parks now with essentially no international guests. Think of all those people that over the next 12 - 18 months will want to make their Disney trip, not to mention the rest of America (like me) who has been pushing their trip for months. Disney probably isn't interested in having locals and DVC members come and visit the park 20 days per year where all they are realizing is AP income and maybe some merch and food. They want a family of four coming for the 7 to 10 day trip, spending $8,000 on hotels and tickets, buying $800 worth of Genie+, spending $1,000 on food and $500 on merchandise. Unfortunately for us, DVC is kind of getting left in the dust of all of this with no real acknowledgement of our unique value.

That being said, the AP system, Genie+, attraction selections, increased food costs all point to Disney maximizing return on guests. For me, this does make me rethink about adding points. I would love to do 10 - 15 days per year over 2 trips to make an AP 'worth it', but at this point the vacation is just too expensive, even with DVC. For me, I would rather add a smaller contract so I can spend my 7 or 8 days with my family in a 1 BR every year or every other year and buy the Genie+, some attraction selections, car service to and from airport, Ubers around property, etc... In the future, I may add more points to accommodate different seasons or 2 BR units, but I really have no interest in trying to stretch points to longer stays because the price of everything outside of DVC is going to keep going up.

I agree with your assessment of their thinking.

I just don't agree that it is in Disney's long term interest to behave this way. Maximizing short term profits by squeezing your customers does not promote a sense of loyalty. I was about as hardcore disney as they come, but the last two years (with DVC management messing with point charts and abusing the lockoff structure -- and now all this pricing), the pixie dust is quickly leaving my body and I'm crashing back down to earth.

DVC and AP holders were the crazies that helped keep the lights on during this pandemic. We were understanding and patient with all the cutbacks that had to be made under the circumstances.

Our reward for that patience?

Get less and pay more.

I saw someone else correctly identify what is going on -- Disney went from being focused on increasing market share to now maximizing revenue per head. Not going to lie -- Disney has disappointed me.

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After my APs run out -- I will likely start renting out my DVC points and using that money for trips to Universal. I will also hope and pray Chapek does not get his contract renewed in a couple years.
 
We have platinum APs expiring in December, can I call to get them renewed now? I think a few weeks ago I read somebody saying they are allowing this because of the park pass system.
I called on Sunday and was told I could not renew early, even with a reservation after the pass expiration. I called back today and the lovely person I spoke to noticed that our reservations included New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day. Because of that, she said she would ask for permission for us to renew early. After about 15 minutes, she came back and said we could renew early due to the fact that our reservations spanned those two extremely busy days. I’m relieved because I thought I would be told no since we only had gold passes but we got very lucky.
 

I called on Sunday and was told I could not renew early, even with a reservation after the pass expiration. I called back today and the lovely person I spoke to noticed that our reservations included New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day. Because of that, she said she would ask for permission for us to renew early. After about 15 minutes, she came back and said we could renew early due to the fact that our reservations spanned those two extremely busy days. I’m relieved because I thought I would be told no since we only had gold passes but we got very lucky.

did they renew the gold pass at the old price or sell you sorcerer's pass at new price?
 
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I just don't agree that it is in Disney's long term interest to behave this way. Maximizing short term profits by squeezing your customers does not promote a sense of loyalty. I was about as hardcore disney as they come, but the last two years (with DVC management messing with point charts and abusing the lockoff structure -- and now all this pricing), the pixie dust is quickly leaving my body and I'm crashing back down to earth.
I actually think Disney is behaving correctly given the current circumstances. While it sucks to be a hardcore fan, Disney can take advantage of the high travel demand, especially with so many places are running low on rental cars.

once the pandemic subsided, they will still have strong international demand To satisfy. Once all of that is done it’ll be 2-3 years of fat profits. After that they can do a mea culpa to DVC and AP holders and offer more benefits to bring them back and most will happily accept the benefits increase after losing so much between 2020-2023/4.

hopefully they take the large profits from these years and build a 3rd US resort/parks to handle future demand for their parks.
 
Disney tracks dollars spent per guest in hotels and increased revenue for admissions and experiences in their annual report every year. Year over year it has gone up around 5% - 7% (looking at 2019 and not 2020 obviously). Disney knows who their guests are, how much they spend, how often they come and how to maximize that profit. To me, what this says is Disney knows that the biggest bang for their buck is the once in a lifetime to once a year guests. Like it or not, this AP system, with blackout dates, reservation requirements and higher costs (not to mention the fine print that they could sell out) is going to continue to cater to the once a year guest and not the 15+ day per year guest. You can get the same bottom dollar if you had twice as many people at half the cost or twice as much cost with half the people. They are definitely moving to lower people at higher costs and probably have a reason for it.
A lot of Disney guests pay cash or use a Disney gift card for purchases and so they can not track those purchases. My husband and I pay cash or with gift cards while vacationing at WDW because our banks flag our cards (if we don't let them know beforehand) and deny transactions in FL. So, to save the hassle, we bring $1200 on GCs and $$$$ . we do not charge back to the room.
 
A lot of Disney guests pay cash or use a Disney gift card for purchases and so they can not track those purchases. My husband and I pay cash or with gift cards while vacationing at WDW because our banks flag our cards (if we don't let them know beforehand) and deny transactions in FL. So, to save the hassle, we bring $1200 on GCs and $$$$ . we do not charge back to the room.
I would imagine you are in the vast minority of disney guests. Probably less than 5%...especially now that they have practically forced people to do online check-in.
 
I agree with your assessment of their thinking.

I just don't agree that it is in Disney's long term interest to behave this way. Maximizing short term profits by squeezing your customers does not promote a sense of loyalty.

I agree with most of what you say except this. I strongly believe this is not maximizing 'short term' profits. I think this is maximizing profit.....period. People will keep coming, spending money and spending more money. Meaning, more profit. I think they can keep increasing price as long as they maintain or increase what they offer. And I don't consider Genie+ as 'removing FP+'. IMO I thought FP+ was built for people that played the game and really made it hard for the casual visitor to have a good experience. I think a paid system offers everyone a level playing field on the day of the visit.

I think conveniences they are taking away that could negatively impact experience are things like Magical Express, Parades, Shows, Bus Service. If they want to increase price and offer more then so be it.

The people who will take issue with this are those that are more frequent visitors. But I think that is a very calculated move by Disney and something they are anticipating.
 
I agree with most of what you say except this. I strongly believe this is not maximizing 'short term' profits. I think this is maximizing profit.....period. People will keep coming, spending money and spending more money. Meaning, more profit. I think they can keep increasing price as long as they maintain or increase what they offer. And I don't consider Genie+ as 'removing FP+'. IMO I thought FP+ was built for people that played the game and really made it hard for the casual visitor to have a good experience. I think a paid system offers everyone a level playing field on the day of the visit.

I think conveniences they are taking away that could negatively impact experience are things like Magical Express, Parades, Shows, Bus Service. If they want to increase price and offer more then so be it.

The people who will take issue with this are those that are more frequent visitors. But I think that is a very calculated move by Disney and something they are anticipating.

The parades and shows better come back. That’s part of the magic of Disney.

But, who the heck knows anymore. :worried:
 
I agree with most of what you say except this. I strongly believe this is not maximizing 'short term' profits. I think this is maximizing profit.....period. People will keep coming, spending money and spending more money. Meaning, more profit. I think they can keep increasing price as long as they maintain or increase what they offer. And I don't consider Genie+ as 'removing FP+'. IMO I thought FP+ was built for people that played the game and really made it hard for the casual visitor to have a good experience. I think a paid system offers everyone a level playing field on the day of the visit.

I think conveniences they are taking away that could negatively impact experience are things like Magical Express, Parades, Shows, Bus Service. If they want to increase price and offer more then so be it.

The people who will take issue with this are those that are more frequent visitors. But I think that is a very calculated move by Disney and something they are anticipating.

I largely agree.

Only thing I'm wondering about is people seem to be making the assumption that disney is operating at 100% -- and if they lose an existing customer, it is being filled another, more high paying customer, and therefore, they aren't losing out on any revenue.

Obviously -- I do not know Disney's numbers -- but I would be shocked if they are at 100%. Sure, there are times when the parks are busy (the first week of august this year being an example I can personally attest to) -- but that is certainly not the case year-round. And that's where AP holders and DVC members help out. Most businesses love having that constant flow of repeat customers to keep the lights on and operations budget paid for. You can then focus on grabbing some of those one-time big-spenders to really drive home the profits.

I always thought DVC did a great balance of this with the upsell events to really go after that higher end market (VIP tours especially).
 
I largely agree.

Only thing I'm wondering about is people seem to be making the assumption that disney is operating at 100% -- and if they lose an existing customer, it is being filled another, more high paying customer, and therefore, they aren't losing out on any revenue.

Obviously -- I do not know Disney's numbers -- but I would be shocked if they are at 100%. Sure, there are times when the parks are busy (the first week of august this year being an example I can personally attest to) -- but that is certainly not the case year-round. And that's where AP holders and DVC members help out. Most businesses love having that constant flow of repeat customers to keep the lights on and operations budget paid for. You can then focus on grabbing some of those one-time big-spenders to really drive home the profits.

I always thought DVC did a great balance of this with the upsell events to really go after that higher end market (VIP tours especially).
My assumption is that they have a yearly target on guests and they want to increase revenue per guest. So, if they drop 10% of guests but make 15% more per guest they are ahead of the game.
 
And one thing to consider with all these price increases is the things they have done (not just things they are taking away). I took a long hiatus on WDW until I had kids of my own. Went in 2019 and have been several times since and was surprised with how much was new. In just the past 5 years in domestic parks they have added Pandora, Toy Story Land, 2 galaxy’s edges, avengers campus, mickeys and Minnie runaway, remy, and are building tron and guardians of the galaxy. While also building the skyliner and starting a complete overhaul of EPCOT. Fairly significant amount of work.
 
LOL, same! VGF2 is not happening now. The gold/sorcerer is quite an increase and the old platinum to incredi-pass is around a 50% increase. I cannot beleive they didn't throw a $100 discount on the top tier. Too many hits (DME, G+, AP) at once.
Yup. Only buying enough for a week every year or other year.
 
A lot of Disney guests pay cash or use a Disney gift card for purchases and so they can not track those purchases. My husband and I pay cash or with gift cards while vacationing at WDW because our banks flag our cards (if we don't let them know beforehand) and deny transactions in FL. So, to save the hassle, we bring $1200 on GCs and $$$$ . we do not charge back to the room.
This is our exact situation. We don’t charge to the room and they have no way of knowing how much we spend ..... which is a lot!
 



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