New Ships - What could you do WITHOUT?

[Expatriat]

I'm not entirely certain that I agree with this sentiment, especially the dismay at increasing the size of the ships. On the one hand, I prefer the Magic class ships and agree with the sentiment that the middle-sized ships would have been preferable to more of the same, but the increase in size isn't really appreciable compared to the size of the current class of ships (129,000 tons vs 135,000 tons; that's a 4% increase in size). We're not really talking them producing a Quantum class luxury-casino-liner like RCCL here (225,000 gross tons and 2,700 staterooms), we're talking a slight increase over the Dream class and approximately the same number of staterooms (which will still be just outside of the top 25 cruise ships in the world in terms of size). And the trade-off could be new destinations by being able to move the older ships to new ports/new itineraries.

I'm personally dismayed at the steady price increase same as pretty much everybody else (except Mr. Iger), especially now that my family's growing and it won't be just the two of us, but I think that saying that it's not worth it to have new ships (which will eventually lead to increased profits and more new ships, even if it's not within my personal lifetime ) if they're not going to be the size that I want them to be isn't necessarily the most productive line of reasoning.

I am well aware that the new ships will not compare to Quantum class. My disappointment is primarily based on conversations with some higher-ups quite some time ago who assured me (always subject to change) that the next ships would be in between Magic class and Dream class size, because so many were "requesting" it. But the size is NOT my main reason for thinking DCL should not expand at this time. As I stated, it is that I have noticed the quality, level of service and "pixie dust" declining steadily since they have 4 ships instead of two, so it is only my personal opinion that they are not yet ready to expand to six. Will they be profitable? Of course! Disney fans will always fork over those Disney dollars for the latest Disney experience. THAT is of course the reason they will build!

 

[truck1]

No. There's a reef offshore of the Keys and the only way in in a boat that draws as much water as a cruise ship does is through the channel. Tendering would not be feasible at all. The Dream and Fantasy are too large/wide to get through that channel without serious tug help, and that's just the way the Key West locals want it. The place gets crowded enough when there are three cruise ships, dozens of daytripping tour buses full of Miami visitors and Ft. Myers ferry boats in town. I can't imagine if they allowed boats the size of the Dream or Fantasy to come in. It would be ridiculous.

We won't even get into the environmental impacts that cruise ships have on the Keys through turbidity, ballast water discharge, wastewater discharge, etc. It's not insignificant, and there are several excursion operators that won't even accept cruise ship business because of it.

Actually its not true. The reason that the Dream class size ships don't go into Key West, is the width of the channel. What happens is, and I forget the exact numbers off hand, is that there is a almost continuous wind, or breeze in KW. The Dream class, Freedom class, and other ships that size will fit no problem. What ends up happening, is that under the right conditions, even though the ship is moving forward, the bow or stern may crowd 1 side of the channel. In which case the normally safe fudge factor is reduced by a considerable amount. The channel itself is like 300 feet wide, and the Dream class is about 120ish,, which puts about 90 feet on each side. But if 1 end crowds the channel edge, due to the breeze that 90 foot margin becomes 10 foot real quick. So the pilots get a little nervous. The actual rule reads that if the winds are under a certain speed and direction, any ship the size of the Dream class, or Freedom class can enter and tie up to the pier. Since that doesn't happen too often, cruise lines leave KW off the bigger ship lists.

 

[truck1]

I've never been to Key West. It sounds like the Dream and Fantasy are too large to dock there, correct? Not that I want them to, but is this a port where they could anchor offshore and use tender boats?

Its the near constant wind/breeze that keep ships that size out. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at this, there are too many reefs nearby that make anchoring impractical. See my above post for a more detailed explanation.

 

[phinz]

Actually its not true. The reason that the Dream class size ships don't go into Key West, is the width of the channel.

Like I said:

The Dream and Fantasy are too large/wide to get through that channel without serious tug help

Now, *technically* they could transit the channel, but the potential for serious crabbing with the winds as they are oftentimes means that the Dream and Fantasy *are* effectively too large/wide to get through that channel without tug help, which is what I meant by my statement. Additionally, tugs are uncommon in EYW.

http://www.cityofkeywest-fl.gov/egov/documents/1372338411_97252.pdf

 

[phinz]

Quantum class luxury-casino-liner like RCCL here (225,000 gross tons and 2,700 staterooms)

Actually, Quantum of the Seas has just over 2000 staterooms, and she's not much bigger than Fantasy. She's 22 feet longer and only 900 more passengers when maxed out. We were moored right next to her in Puerto Rico last February.

 

[brussrus]

Definitely Shutters and the Art Gallery.

I would also like a new deck party/show with fireworks. On our December cruise, due to weather, the pirate party was moved indoors and the fireworks were incorporated into the frozen deck party. Now, I'm not saying the new show should be frozen themed, but it was nice to see how they made the fireworks a part of that different show. I would just love to see something new that would still have fireworks at sea. At this point we usually skip the deck party/show and just find some place to watch the fireworks.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Just for the record, the Quantum is also +/- 28' wider and 168,000 gross tons (2), max passengers 4905 . The Fantasy is 130,000 gross tons (2), max passengers 4,000. So the Quantum is a good deal bigger. That extra beam makes all the difference.

The Quantum is not a liner, she is a cruise ship. The only liners around now is the Cunard Queens and hopefully the SS United States coming out again.

AKK

 

[Flossbolna]

I think only the QM2 is an ocean liner, the other two Cunard Queens are dedicated cruise ships.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I think only the QM2 is an ocean liner, the other two Cunard Queens are dedicated cruise ships.

Well, you have a point. All 3 have the lines and design to handle the north Atlantic and the QM2 is a really true liner, with hull strength and power to run a steady north Atlantic run. The QV and the QE are more limited as a cruiser is, but still have reinforced steel in the bows, stern and partially along the water line.

So in fairness I have to give you your point, to a limit.

There is talk of a refit on all 3 Queens to modify them more as liner for the round the world trade. We will have to see what happens.

AKK

 

[QuiltTeddy]

This is not accurate at all. There are some that go the the adult only pool area because they choose to, it was a design flaw for sure. But to say everyone must go through, is just an outright false statement.

Pardon me for being inaccurate. I MEANT, for those utilizing the forward elevator. To further elaborate would be a waste of time. I completely forgot how people read into each and every word on here, and I should have been more explicit so as to avoid any confusion.

 

[MHTorringjan]

Actually, Quantum of the Seas has just over 2000 staterooms, and she's not much bigger than Fantasy. She's 22 feet longer and only 900 more passengers when maxed out. We were moored right next to her in Puerto Rico last February.

Ah, okay, that's actually my mistake, I am getting my classes mixed up. I was referencing the newest and largest class that I found on the Wikipedia list of largest ships in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_world's_largest_cruise_ships

The ones I was referencing were the Allure and Oasis of the Seas, totally thought we were still calling them Quantum class. My bad.

 

[MHTorringjan]

I am well aware that the new ships will not compare to Quantum class. My disappointment is primarily based on conversations with some higher-ups quite some time ago who assured me (always subject to change) that the next ships would be in between Magic class and Dream class size, because so many were "requesting" it. But the size is NOT my main reason for thinking DCL should not expand at this time. As I stated, it is that I have noticed the quality, level of service and "pixie dust" declining steadily since they have 4 ships instead of two, so it is only my personal opinion that they are not yet ready to expand to six. Will they be profitable? Of course! Disney fans will always fork over those Disney dollars for the latest Disney experience. THAT is of course the reason they will build!

Whoah there, it sounds a bit like you're taking my post personally, I truly didn't mean it as such! We're all friends here.

Like I said, I would have preferred the same size you and others were asking for as well. And as for the decline in service and pixie dust, I can see what you mean (I've been cruising DCL since 2004 and have observed some similar changes that make the trip less fun than back in the day; no midnight dessert buffet, fewer interactive activities for adults in the evening, etc), but I think that's less of an argument for not expanding the fleet than it is an argument for people filling out the comment cards, sharing thoughts at the CC reception with appropriate cast members, or emailing the company directly (although the only person I know who does that is my dad, and I think they just screen his emails out at this point ). Or just voting with our feet/wallets (which is a strategy that really relies on large numbers of people doing it at once).

 

[mcd2745]

I personally don't get the desire for smaller ships. I can agree with a smaller passenger load, though. Not realistic, of course, but what would be ideal is a ship the size of the Dream/Fantasy (or the newly announced ships) and all the activities and amenities that come with it, with a max passenger load equal to the Magic/Wonder. The smaller ships are fine for short 3 or 4 night cruises, however, for a seven night or longer...I prefer the more recreational & entertainment options that the bigger ships offer.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I personally don't get the desire for smaller ships. I can agree with a smaller passenger load, though. Not realistic, of course, but what would be ideal is a ship the size of the Dream/Fantasy (or the newly announced ships) and all the activities and amenities that come with it, with a max passenger load equal to the Magic/Wonder. The smaller ships are fine for short 3 or night cruises, however, for a seven night or longer...I prefer the more recreational & entertainment options that the bigger ships offer.

While we, on the other hand, prefer the smaller (size/passenger load) for all our cruises - long or short.

 

[phinz]

The ones I was referencing were the Allure and Oasis of the Seas, totally thought we were still calling them Quantum class. My bad.

Ah. Yeah. The Allure and Oasis are massive. They're fascinating, but holy crap are they big.

 

[Expatriat]

Whoah there, it sounds a bit like you're taking my post personally, I truly didn't mean it as such! We're all friends here.

Like I said, I would have preferred the same size you and others were asking for as well. And as for the decline in service and pixie dust, I can see what you mean (I've been cruising DCL since 2004 and have observed some similar changes that make the trip less fun than back in the day; no midnight dessert buffet, fewer interactive activities for adults in the evening, etc), but I think that's less of an argument for not expanding the fleet than it is an argument for people filling out the comment cards, sharing thoughts at the CC reception with appropriate cast members, or emailing the company directly (although the only person I know who does that is my dad, and I think they just screen his emails out at this point ). Or just voting with our feet/wallets (which is a strategy that really relies on large numbers of people doing it at once).

No worries. I did not take it personally, but felt the need to stress that although the size is a major disappointment (to me and some others), that was not the foundation of why I thought they should not expand at this time. It was mostly the decline in service since their expansion to even 4 ships. My biggest reason is that the quality of service seems to be on a steady decline. I think their #1 priority should be to bring all the ships to a reliably consistent level of "excellent" service throughout, as it used to be, before expanding further. That's all.

 

[Hundredacre]

I am surprised to hear people say they want more adult stuff because it is clear to me that disney is marketing to kids and families. The adult areas are token and they do not enforce the adult only rules (i.e. kids are more important than adults on dcl). If I didnt have kids who begged for dcl, there is no way I would be going on dcl. It shocks me that there are people without kids or grandkids who go on dcl regularly. Way too expensive. And as adult only parties you are heavily subsidizing kids activities. We are actually forcing our disney crazed kids to take other lines this upcoming year.

 

[Hundredacre]

I like the smaller ships too, but I suspect they are going big in an effort to make it more affordable. Kind of like the value resorts at wdw are huge.

 

[DynamicDisneyDuo]

I like the smaller ships too, but I suspect they are going big in an effort to make it more affordable. Kind of like the value resorts at wdw are huge.

DCL affordable? They are gonna have to pay those billion-dollar boondoggles off and affordable ain't gonna get it done. I wonder if the Dream class will even be paid off before these enter service?

 

[truck1]

DCL affordable? They are gonna have to pay those billion-dollar boondoggles off and affordable ain't gonna get it done. I wonder if the Dream class will even be paid off before these enter service?

There already paid off. If not real close to it. The initial pay off dates were about 5 years after delivery.