New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[pilferk]

That's exactly how I booked, all of my days based on departure date, and how I believe it should be, with no DBD or walking permitted. You either get it or you don't.

DBD caused problems for members who for lots of different reasons were not able to use it, but primarily not being aware of the ability to do so. Irregardless of what some people posting here think, it was not something that most members would think to do, nor was it well publicized by MS, with only some members being advised to use it to secure their ressies, giving them an advantage over those who were not "in the know."

DBD didn't cause the problems.

Their lives did. Their priorities did. Not that they were really "problems", but the root of "not being able to use it" had zero to do with the system. The system would have been perfectly able, ready, and happy to take their phone call and give them their room (provided nobody else was "faster").

There's a big difference. Really, there is.

As for how widely publicized it was....I don't know. I can only speak for myself. We were advised of it the minute we mentioned, to our guide during the purchase process back in '07, we were considering booking an early December trip in '08. It was mentioned again by MS when we called to bank points last September, and mentioned to the cast member we were going to be doing an early December trip this year in casual conversation. It was mentioned AGAIN by MS when we called the day we were booking the trip...they told US we were booking dbd, and asked for our final check out date. Before we could tell them.....

You were never told. Anecdotally, that's interesting. I was told 3 times, by DVC reps, within about a 1 year span. Also anecdotally interesting.

I'm just not sure why YOU assume you're in the majority, and not the other way around. I admit, if it was not communicated to all members...that's a problem. It seems to be a common one...the lack of communication. I just wonder why the fix is to revamp the system....rather than simply communicating the options to the membership, something at least a decent sized portion of MS reps were already doing.

 

[pilferk]

I think this is just spin and nonsense on their part. Anyone that booked DBD knows that the first call takes just as long as a regular reservation, and the subsequent calls take just a few seconds. It takes longer to confirm you are who you say you are than it does to extend a DBD reservation. I'm sure MS spends more time with someone on the phone checking inventory prior to someone's 7 month window than they do with a DBD extension.

This brings up a good point:

If they're looking to reduce call volume, I'm not sure this system, as it is now, will do that. ESPECIALLY if "walking" becomes widespread.

While DBD calls were, after the first, quick hit and runs, I'd think the "walking" calls would be a bit more lengthy, right? I've never called to add and remove days, but I'd think there's a bit more involved than the minute or so it would take to extend a DBD ressie. It might reduce VOLUME, I suppose, but I'm not sure it will actually reduce resource useage. The average call might get longer, if walking becomes the SOP.

What do you all think? Anyone gone through both (DBD and adding/removing days) processes?

 

[DVC Mike]

In this thread, people have talked about selling all together, people have talked about selling one contract and buying more at their remaining resort so they can walk and/or book check-in +7, people have said that they will no longer buy add-ons at new resorts, people have said they will no longer recommend DVC to others, people have said that they will "walk" for possibly weeks and months to get prime reservations, people have considered renting out their points and then paying cash in order to get a prime reservation, people have referenced that speculative renters now have it made, etc. etc.

I can't believe the fear and uncertainty this thread is provoking among DVC members here on the DISboards. Yes, a certain amount of uncertainty is allowable for any untested change, but the FUD has grown to an enormous size when people are talking about making massive changes (selling their membership or re-balancing their points) without any proof that the new policy is going to harm them.

People are just speculating at this point as to what the new policy may mean to them -- but at this point it is just speculation on a discussion board. I, for one, am satisfied with the new policy, but I can certainly understand those who aren't. I would just caution those from making rash decisions until we see how this all plays out.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I can't believe the fear and uncertainty this thread is provoking among DVC members here on the DISboards. Yes, a certain amount of uncertainty is allowable for any untested change, but the FUD has grown to an enormous size when people are talking about making massive changes (selling their membership or re-balancing their points) without any proof that the new policy is going to harm them.

Believe it, Mike! This untested change was thrust upon the membership with no advance notice and now we are seeing the results of this foolish decision.
Lots of anxiety on the part of members seems to be quite justified. There is no telling what new simple changes they will throw at us next! I've already told MS that I would not consider any add-ons and I would not recommend DVC to anyone until they sort out this whole mess. That decision is not due to any fear or uncertainty on my part. It is due to the way that this change was implemented.

People are just speculating at this point as to what the new policy may mean to them -- but at this point it is just speculation on a discussion board. I, for one, am satisfied with the new policy, but I can certainly understand those who aren't. I would just caution those from making rash decisions until we see how this all plays out.

And you are just speculating as well. The first rash decision made was the one that changed the way that we utilize our membership. That was DVC's decision. All members are doing now is reacting to that original decision. Certainly, MS should have known that many would be upset.

 

[aurorafan]

DBD didn't cause the problems.

As for how widely publicized it was....I don't know. I can only speak for myself. We were advised of it the minute we mentioned, to our guide during the purchase process back in '07, we were considering booking an early December trip in '08. It was mentioned again by MS when we called to bank points last September, and mentioned to the cast member we were going to be doing an early December trip this year in casual conversation. It was mentioned AGAIN by MS when we called the day we were booking the trip...they told US we were booking dbd, and asked for our final check out date. Before we could tell them.....

You were never told. Anecdotally, that's interesting. I was told 3 times, by DVC reps, within about a 1 year span. Also anecdotally interesting.

I'm just not sure why YOU assume you're in the majority, and not the other way around. I admit, if it was not communicated to all members...that's a problem. It seems to be a common one...the lack of communication. I just wonder why the fix is to revamp the system....rather than simply communicating the options to the membership, something at least a decent sized portion of MS reps were already doing.

Jumping back in to add in regards to the section I bolded--I've seen at least one other post in this thread stating that the poster was NOT told about DBD booking by MS. I was not told about it, either by my guide or by MS when I made my reservations. It is not in the literature anywhere, nor on the website (well, until they mentioned it as a reason for changing the new policy ). I've seen several posts here and on other boards by people saying essentially "I'm new to DVC and didn't know I needed to book DBD..." Whether or not a majority or minority knew I don't know, but the fact remains that some of the members didn't know, so they were at a disadvantage to those who did (yes, I'll concede a disadvantage caused by DVC not by the system itself). I personally feel that because it was NOT communicated to the entire membership that DBD was an option the "policy" was unfair, as some people had the advantage of knowing about it while others did not.

 

[pyrxtc]

Actually, I've said that neither system is equitable or fair. I personally think booking based on check-out date only, with no DBD calls permitted, is probably the most equitable or fair system for all members.

well, if this is most equitable, then how is it different than booking on your start date? There are still a lot of people who can book before you since they are leaving before you.

 

[rantnnravin]

Jumping back in to add in regards to the section I bolded--I've seen at least one other post in this thread stating that the poster was NOT told about DBD booking by MS. I was not told about it, either by my guide or by MS when I made my reservations. It is not in the literature anywhere, nor on the website (well, until they mentioned it as a reason for changing the new policy ). I've seen several posts here and on other boards by people saying essentially "I'm new to DVC and didn't know I needed to book DBD..." Whether or not a majority or minority knew I don't know, but the fact remains that some of the members didn't know, so they were at a disadvantage to those who did (yes, I'll concede a disadvantage caused by DVC not by the system itself). I personally feel that because it was NOT communicated to the entire membership that DBD was an option the "policy" was unfair, as some people had the advantage of knowing about it while others did not.

no. the idea that the option of DBD booking was not communicated to members doesn't make the "policy" unfair, it makes the distribution of information unfair.
big difference.

DVC Mike,
I have to disagree with you here. Being aware of and discussing the inherent problems in the new system is not panic - it's pragmatism. Even if members normally book off-peak times, spec renters and others who are wishing to secure their preferred dates by walking reservations can be holding dates that they have no intention of keeping and effectively lokcing others out of the dates that they want. This problem simply does not exist in the previous booking paradigm.

 

[aurorafan]

no. the idea that the option of DBD booking was not communicated to members doesn't make the "policy" unfair, it makes the distribution of information unfair.
big difference.

I put the word policy in quotes because honestly I wasn't sure how to describe it, considering it wasn't actually an official policy . However you want to phrase it--the idea of it, the distribution of information, the situation--it was unfair because some knew about it and some didn't. People keep getting into semantics while still insisting DBD was fair. Argue if you want that the system was, but the implementation (because some were informed about the option and others were not) was not.

 

[Inkmahm]

But by "venturing", Dean, you're speaking for other's people's motives...which you can't possibly really know. The fact that's your thought process shows you don't really understand the alternate POV. Not really. So again, just by pigeonholing, you're diplaying a lack of understanding of those with the alternate POV. By "venturing"...it looks like you're just trying to find an easy way to "discredit" the opposing POV. I don't necessarily think that's your goal, here....I'll give you more credit than that...but again: I'll bet there are a lot of those with the opposing viewpoint who feel like that's what you're doing and, quite frankly, I'll bet they're a bit offended. Again, probably not your intent.

You SAY you get it. But every time you explain it.....you show you don't. It's just a disconnect....we're just belaboring it.

In any event, I think we've gone off on THAT tangent long enough. Suffice to say, any discussion with you on the subject is going to get down to the fundamental disconnect that I think all those with an alternate viewpoint have identified. I think that's good, actually. But not likely something either POV is going to overcome....

Another excellent post. I think you've pegged the problem perfectly. And yes, Dean's comments as to motive ARE offensive to me.

 

[dvcdisney]

Yes, but now we're giving advantage to the Porche again..

MG

No, I don't believe we are.

Again, the fact that the Porsche may have an advantage doesn't mean that it's not fair. At a red light, both are at front, at this point, the system is fair. Whether the Porsche takes off doesn't make a difference to the idea of Fairness. The only way this would be unfair is if the Toyota's lane had the starting point at 3 or 4 car lengths back. Then, yes, in this situation, the Porsche would clearly have the advantage (and so would a bicycle). But the fact that the Porsche has a faster acceleration, doesn't mean it's not fair for the Toyota.

Again, I want to reiterate (and this is what started the discussion with another poster) that I don't feel that "walking" can be held as the same fairness as DBD. Not because some members have more points or less, but because the time/date at which it would be considered fair cannot be determined. Technically to get the same opportunity for a day would mean making sure that you "walk" as far ahead as someone who wants those same dates, and there is no way to know.

That is why the old system was fair (IMO) since each day can be considered as a start point for each day (11/7 mths prior). In the old system, if I call today for a day in 11 months, other members have the same opportunity to call (whether they call or not is their choice) as myself. Now with the new system, I can call today, but other members had the opportunity for the last 7 days to call, and therefore I didn't have the same chance. Now with walking, I could go back 7 days, but what about the ones who had walked a month or 6 months, then we all do not have the same opportunity to call at the same time.

This is why I don't believe the new system, whether you walk or not is at all FAIR to ALLmembers (not just those who have less points, or have to take their children to school or has to work early etc). Like some other poster said, Life may not be fair, but the system should be.

As I said, I am not planning to walk, but I understand why others would. The old system of DBD was fair and it did not require someone to "walk" their reservation. Each member had the same opportunity to call, nothing in the new system provides this FAIRNESS.

But as some members have pointed out, it's not all about fairness, it's all about decreasing the call volumes.

 

[rantnnravin]

Again, I want to reiterate (and this is what started the discussion with another poster) that I don't feel that "walking" can be held as the same fairness as DBD. Not because some members have more points or less, but because the time/date at which it would be considered fair cannot be determined. Technically to get the same opportunity for a day would mean making sure that you "walk" as far ahead as someone who wants those same dates, and there is no way to know.

That is why the old system was fair (IMO) since each day can be considered as a start point for each day (11/7 mths prior). In the old system, if I call today for a day in 11 months, other members have the same opportunity to call (whether they call or not is their choice) as myself. Now with the new system, I can call today, but other members had the opportunity for the last 7 days to call, and therefore I didn't have the same chance. Now with walking, I could go back 7 days, but what about the ones who had walked a month or 6 months, then we all do not have the same opportunity to call at the same time.

This is why I don't believe the new system, whether you walk or not is at all FAIR to ALLmembers (not just those who have less points, or have to take their children to school or has to work early etc). Like some other poster said, Life may not be fair, but the system should be.

As I said, I am not planning to walk, but I understand why others would. The old system of DBD was fair and it did not require someone to "walk" their reservation. Each member had the same opportunity to call, nothing in the new system provides this FAIRNESS.

But as some members have pointed out, it's not all about fairness, it's all about decreasing the call volumes.

well said.
and in order to "fix" the inherent problems with this new unfair system, they are considering adding cumbersome rules, regulations and sanctions??? Like my dad always used to say..."if ain't broke..."

 

[dvcdisney]

Believe it, Mike! This untested change was thrust upon the membership with no advance notice and now we are seeing the results of this foolish decision.
Lots of anxiety on the part of members seems to be quite justified. There is no telling what new simple changes they will throw at us next! I've already told MS that I would not consider any add-ons and I would not recommend DVC to anyone until they sort out this whole mess. That decision is not due to any fear or uncertainty on my part. It is due to the way that this change was implemented.



And you are just speculating as well. The first rash decision made was the one that changed the way that we utilize our membership. That was DVC's decision. All members are doing now is reacting to that original decision. Certainly, MS should have known that many would be upset.

Exactly!

 

[aurorafan]

well said.
and in order to "fix" the inherent problems with this new unfair system, they are considering adding cumbersome rules, regulations and sanctions??? Like my dad always used to say..."if ain't broke..."

Just a question (and I'm being sincere, not trying to be smart alecky)--do we know DVC itself is considering new rules etc. to "fix" the problem? I was under the impression that all the "rules, regulations and sanctions" are just conjecture from this thread, not things that DVC is actually considering implementing?

 

[dvcdisney]

well said.
and in order to "fix" the inherent problems with this new unfair system, they are considering adding cumbersome rules, regulations and sanctions??? Like my dad always used to say..."if ain't broke..."

And when the time comes that MS implements these regulations, I can't begin to imagine what members will need to do to circumvent (within the guidelines of course) these rules. It'll be a whole new mess.

JUST BRING BACK THE OLD SYSTEM!

 

[mjy]

spec renters and others who are wishing to secure their preferred dates by walking reservations can be holding dates that they have no intention of keeping and effectively lokcing others out of the dates that they want. This problem simply does not exist in the previous booking paradigm.

I've been keeping out of this thread, although I am reading it with some interest. However, if I am understanding you correctly, I have to disagree with you here.

I think the problem did exist in the other booking paradigm as well. People would book day by day for prime holiday slots, thus keeping it away from other members. Then, they would end up putting those bookings on different rental threads attempting to rent them to interested people who were not in DVC. That was certainly not fair either.

No matter what system, there are always going to be those few who find ways around the system to use it to their own advantage -- often at the disadvantage of the other members. And it is those few that end up causing "corrections" to the system, and corrections to the corrections, and corrections to the corrections to the corrections, and...

 

[dvcdisney]

Just a question (and I'm being sincere, not trying to be smart alecky)--do we know DVC itself is considering new rules etc. to "fix" the problem? I was under the impression that all the "rules, regulations and sanctions" are just conjecture from this thread, not things that DVC is actually considering implementing?

A few post back, I believe someone mentioned that they spoke to Joy or Sheila (at MS) and was told they were looking to prevent "walking" (which they considered abuse of the policy). They were aware of the problem.

However, I get your point, I've read a few posts about spec renters (which I do not know much about) and that DVC has been trying deal with this issue and apparently has not been able to.

 

[rantnnravin]

I've been keeping out of this thread, although I am reading it with some interest. However, if I am understanding you correctly, I have to disagree with you here.

I think the problem did exist in the other booking paradigm as well. People would book day by day for prime holiday slots, thus keeping it away from other members. Then, they would end up putting those bookings on different rental threads attempting to rent them to interested people who were not in DVC. That was certainly not fair either.

No matter what system, there are always going to be those few who find ways around the system to use it to their own advantage -- often at the disadvantage of the other members. And it is those few that end up causing "corrections" to the system, and corrections to the corrections, and corrections to the corrections to the corrections, and...

that's a horse of a different color and a discussion for another day. I'm talking about members who want "DEC 4-10, so they book Nov 6-13 and walk day by day. then when another member calls for say, i dunno, Thanksgiving weekend, they can't get it because one or more of those days has been taken by the walking reservation. When the walker has finally secured his actual desired reservation, he cancels, But the person desiring thanksgiving has already been locked out and is at the mercy of the wailtist. - which we all know does not grab reservations real-time, but instead, allows for "real-time callers" to scoop up those recently released rooms. So, someone calling after another can get the same room someone else was denied. Not specific to this particular booking change, for sure, but certainly compounds the inherent problems.

 

[dzorn]

Has anyone been denied a reservation yet due to the new system?

How would you know you would not have lost out with the old system?

Denise in MI

 

[dzorn]

May be a little late with this but.....

I have a Sunday - Friday stay for President's Week in February 2009 at SSR
Sunday is February 15, which means that the 7th month window started for me today.
I called Member Services at exactly 9:00AM this morning to try to change to Beach Club or Boardwalk.

Nothing at Boardwalk, however Monday through Friday was available at the Beach Club.
They were unable to book the four days at the Beach Club because I was one day shy of the 7 month window, even though I would be wait-listed for one night.

Now I need to call tomorrow to see if the four nights are still available.
Not sure if this anyone anticipated this scenario, but right now many people, including those who work at Member Services are still working through this change

The Prophet

We are going at the same time. I also tried to change over to Boardwalk or VWL and neither was available. Mom duty called and I did not get on the phone until 9:15 but waited on hold less that a minute. I did wait list for Boardwalk for the whole time because I do not want to move from AKV for anything less than the five days I have booked there. I was trying for a 2bedroom is that matters.

Denise in MI

 

[jade1]

People keep getting into semantics while still insisting DBD was fair. Argue if you want that the system was, but the implementation (because some were informed about the option and others were not) was not.

There is a points chart that you use to reserve a night at a resort. For example it may take 8 points for an OKW studio one night. Thats how you know how many points you have used for that night-and how many you still have left for more nights if you want. That is a one night reservation. You then can call and reserve the next night if you want (and have enough points available)-and the points chart lets you know how many points that will take. If you have enough points you can keep doing this is along as you want at 11 months out. Technically you do have to check out, have your bags moved, and check into another room. Your old room then has to be cleaned as well. It is likely however that the resort will just say "why dont you just stay in the same room the whole time", that way you dont have to move and they dont have to clean etc. But the only thing for sure is the points chart is provided with points used per day, because it is a per day time share system, and one day reservations are completey allowed and expected-even in succession.