New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[jdg345]

I've been keeping out of this thread, although I am reading it with some interest. However, if I am understanding you correctly, I have to disagree with you here.

I think the problem did exist in the other booking paradigm as well. People would book day by day for prime holiday slots, thus keeping it away from other members. Then, they would end up putting those bookings on different rental threads attempting to rent them to interested people who were not in DVC. That was certainly not fair either.

No matter what system, there are always going to be those few who find ways around the system to use it to their own advantage -- often at the disadvantage of the other members. And it is those few that end up causing "corrections" to the system, and corrections to the corrections, and corrections to the corrections to the corrections, and...

I touched upon this earlier. The issue is that the new system makes it easier for spec renters to box out the weeks they want. They can very easily walk and extend their stays, and they can do several rooms and weeks together, all in one phone call. With DBD, they were competing with everyone else.

Now, how is this different? Well, the other system would have taken the spec renter more time, and they'd have to have reservation numbers, etc, so that they could be looked up and extended. If a day was unavailable by the time they got to reservation #8, they'd have to WL and keep notes, etc.

Now, how long does a spec renter hold out for that day (or days)? Remember, they can't rent a reservation with a hole (or holes) in it, so they typically release those back to the general pool and others' waitlists are filled.

You're correct in that the previous system did not prevent spec renting, but it certainly made it more difficult than the current system does.

 

[jdg345]

And when the time comes that MS implements these regulations, I can't begin to imagine what members will need to do to circumvent (within the guidelines of course) these rules. It'll be a whole new mess.

JUST BRING BACK THE OLD SYSTEM!

Exactly!

 

[jdg345]

that's a horse of a different color and a discussion for another day. I'm talking about members who want "DEC 4-10, so they book Nov 6-13 and walk day by day. then when another member calls for say, i dunno, Thanksgiving weekend, they can't get it because one or more of those days has been taken by the walking reservation. When the walker has finally secured his actual desired reservation, he cancels, But the person desiring thanksgiving has already been locked out and is at the mercy of the wailtist. - which we all know does not grab reservations real-time, but instead, allows for "real-time callers" to scoop up those recently released rooms. So, someone calling after another can get the same room someone else was denied. Not specific to this particular booking change, for sure, but certainly compounds the inherent problems.

Exactly! So much for FCFS!

 

[mopee3]

The advantage of setting up the WL for up to 7 nights on the first call is that it gets the member on the wait list as early as possible.

Lisa,
When MS tells you they can't reserve Sunday-Friday but do have Monday-Friday, why wouldn't one just tell MS that they wanted Monday-Friday and later come back and WL the Sunday. I realize they are hanging out and may have to switch from SS to BW for the one day but at least they would have 4 of the 5 days set up.

monty

 

[jdg345]

I do see the difference, and as I said in a subsequent post I put policy in quotes because I wasn't sure what to call it, since technically it wasn't an official policy. To me it was a loophole, because regardless of the fact that some MS reps allowed people to do it or told people to do it, never was it stated anywhere in the official rules and regulations that you could book a series of one day reservations but not be required to check out and check back in and be allowed stay in the same room for the whole time. Yes it's a timeshare based on daily rather than weekly reservations, but the rules and regulations required that the reservation be made from your check out date--that means you have to check out that day. Call it a situation, call it a lack of communication (which I totally agree with) but it wasn't a policy, because it wasn't written down anywhere that it was allowed.

Again, just because it's not written down doesn't make it unfair. And there is nothing that says they cannot make you change rooms DBD. They could very well do just that if they wanted to. The fact is, this is not in their best interest, so they won't do it (as they would have to clean and re-prep 2 rooms now, just for you, every day or your stay).

 

[dvcdisney]

Did you tell MS your real dates of stay so that will hold off sending any confirmation letters?

I think it would be funny to hear the conversation between MS and a member who is "walking" their reservation: "yes, I'd like to book my reservation for the Jan 1-8, 2009..... No, that's not the end of my vacation....when?...well, my check out date will be Dec 31, 2009 .

(Again, although I do not plan on walking my reservation, I can understand why some will. I also understand that this will inevitably affect me in a negative way. Although I will be booking for non peak periods, members may walk through my dates and not allow me to get the dates I wanted. But this is because of the new system. It provides reasons for "walking". The old system didn't.)

 

[aurorafan]

I did not know you could book ADR's 180+10. Does that in itself make it unfair? Nope. It makes me ignorant of the situation, that's all. There are tips and tricks to everything, and sometimes these things aren't widely published. That is not unfair.

But the 180+10 is published everywhere--on the Disney website, in guide books, etc. . If the information is available and you don't make yourself aware of it then yes, that's your fault. DBD wasn't published at all.

 

[jarestel]

Yes, but someone said a few posts back that MS is watching for walking which they consider an abuse of the system (I hope they mean excessive walking as many people need to change plans sometimes). If they consider walking an abuse then they will presumably take steps to stop it, whereas with DBD they didn't.

If they really want to discourage walking, it's easily identified and therefore simple to stop. After all, anyone who is calling DBD multiple times to drop & add days is obviously walking. Much different pattern from the person who calls once or twice to tweak a reservation. If TPTB decide that walking is thwarting the intent of the new policy, look for more changes and a whole new thread.

 

[dvcdisney]

The member satisfaction team has stated that they are monitoring the situation and will make changes if they find there is abuse of the system. Whatever that means is likely another 100 page thread all by itself.

So true!

 

[jdg345]

You have posted that you are currently walking a reservation. Did you tell MS your real dates of stay so that will hold off sending any confirmation letters?

No way to do that, and they won't not send a confirmation letter either ... so ... uhm ... I've decided to use it to wallpaper a room so it does not go to complete waste.

It seems that extending DBD for days 2-8 isn't handled the way DBD was originally. I don't know why that is. In the past, you would tell them what your desired LOS was and they would note it. In fact, they'd repeat it back to you to confirm when you extended. It doesn't seem like this is an option anymore.

Now, granted, I haven't asked about this again in awhile; I'll bring it up on the next leg (tomorrow) and see what they say.

Has anyone else booked longer than 7 days and given MS the full LOS information and had them successfully note it so when you call the following day to book Day-8, they already know that's what you want and just click it off? And, more importantly, prevents tons of confirmation letters from going out?

If no one has, I guess I can call later this afternoon and try to book 11+10 and see how they handle it?

 

[TyRy]

Yes, but someone said a few posts back that MS is watching for walking which they consider an abuse of the system (I hope they mean excessive walking as many people need to change plans sometimes). If they consider walking an abuse then they will presumably take steps to stop it, whereas with DBD they didn't.

My argument was that people keep saying DBD was fair--it may have been fair as far as the system went, but in practice it wasn't because it wasn't communicated to the WHOLE membership that it was allowed. Therefore those members who didn't know about it were at a disadvantage to others who did.

As others have already said (evil work getting in the way of my reading ) I didn't think DBD was an abuse. On my very FIRST call ever to MS to check and see if my week was fairly open they told me I should consider doing DBD and start booking right then and there. I wanted a Standard room at AKV and they said there were not many of those. So I did. They asked what my final checkout date was and said they would hold my confirmation until then. That seems like a system in place to me - did I get lucky w/a cast member who mentioned it, maybe, but it didn't seem like an abuse or way around the system. The whole concept of walking to me seems like an abuse and/or a way around the system.

Hopefully they will be watching for abuse (and I agree about the excessive walking, not changing a day or two), but since they can't seem to stop things like spec renting and didn't even come up with the walking scenario before they made this change I don't know if I'll be holding my breath.

Ty

 

[jdg345]

IMHO
It seems the DBD option is moot; it is no longer allowed. MS would have probably stopped the method had enough members written them a letter (a real letter) to complain. I actually thought it was a way to book-according to all the research I did.
The "walking a reservation" process is a new twist. It is not unknown to the MS agents it's just not been a method that has been complained about in writting-yet. It seems only real letters do the trick.
I do have to admit that if you need info on Disney or DVC than the Disboard members will always give you the "scoop". I have learned a ton from here. I checked here before I ever bought DVC and will keep coming to find all the "need to know" information. I am sure if "wallking" is allowed this will be the thread that thinks of all the ways to do it.

Just spit-balling here:
I kinda equate the process of "walking a reservation" to busy intersections and red-light cameras. (Booking though DVC)
You know not to run a red light(you should make your reservation according to check in +7) but you can cruise a yellow(walk a reservation) and stay in the intersection to catch that next green light (get that prime time))-whoops, but the lights aren't syncronized correctly, you are in a hurry, the other cars are doing it, etc. (the system isn't fair, I need "my" spot, I have to plan ahead, the kids are in school)
You and others may go ahead and block the intersection on someone else's green light, waiting for the next light to change-whoops again (walking a reservation).

Well, everyone knows that by doing that you are keeping cross traffic from using the intersection(throwing others on a WL and keeping them from planning their Disney Vacation), Oh, well.

It is only a small inconvience right-it's not just you and, as soon as the next light turns green you will move to give them space(when you give up the days you aren't going to use). Won't they be so happy you did this for them?
Well, if enough people do this it causes problems....
The powers that be decide that installing red light cameras at these intersections will ticket/penalize all of those that practice this. (set up restrictions, 1 change per reservation, cancel and rebook on 2nd change, no re-scheduling days into prime times, etc)
It should stop the problem, but what if there is an emergency, an ambulance needs the intersection and you move out of the way, or you can't stop because of a wet road....etc. (really need just one change in reservation)
Too bad, you have to pay the ticket (give up and rebook)
A few can change everything for everyone.


If you have a concern about walking, write to the Member Satisfaction Team. Don't think that just by reading the posts they will change a policy-that's how DBD came about-no one really complained.....

Actually, DBD is still very much allowed, in the process of walking. It's essentialy the same thing, except that there is no designated day to start ... the earlier you begin, the better off you are.

One solution you did not mention is simply going back to DBD ... that prevents all the ticketing and rebalances the system in one fells swoop.

If they want to reduce call volumes, implement online booking. It's pretty clear this change was not made because of member complaints or fairness. This change was made to improve their bottom line at the request of people who have no understanding of how the system works under the guise of 'listening to member requests'. After all, I have yet to hear from anyone who has seen this survey that went out about DBD first hand.

 

[LisaS]

Lisa,
When MS tells you they can't reserve Sunday-Friday but do have Monday-Friday, why wouldn't one just tell MS that they wanted Monday-Friday and later come back and WL the Sunday. I realize they are hanging out and may have to switch from SS to BW for the one day but at least they would have 4 of the 5 days set up.

monty

I'm not sure I understand your question. The new policy allows booking starting 7/11 months prior to check-in and allows you to book up to 7 nights. If you call for Sun-Fri at exactly 7/11 months prior to that Sunday night and Sunday night is not available but Mon-Fri is available, you cannot book the Mon-Fri nights. You can only book nights 2+ if your first night is available. If you called MS at 7/11 months prior to your second night (the Monday night) and were told that Sunday was booked but Mon-Fri was available, you could book Mon-Fri and WL for Sunday.

 

[jdg345]

Lisa,
When MS tells you they can't reserve Sunday-Friday but do have Monday-Friday, why wouldn't one just tell MS that they wanted Monday-Friday and later come back and WL the Sunday. I realize they are hanging out and may have to switch from SS to BW for the one day but at least they would have 4 of the 5 days set up.

monty

Because the 'rules' for booking 11+7 require that all [up to] (7) days are at the same resort in the same room/category and that the first night is available. If the first night is not available, you can either WL Day-1 and call back tomorrow or WL the entire 7 day stay and call back tomorrow. Using the latter, if Day2 is still not available, you can call on Day-3. If Day-3 is availble, you can book it and they'll adjust your WL into two separate WL's (one for days 1-2, and one for days 4-7). You can then call on Day-4, and see if you can plug that in.

There are several things disconcerting here. For one, it's further evidence that WL's are not automatic. After all, if they were, you should fill your WL right at 9am on Day-2. The previous poster did not get his. DVC has confirmed that when you call on subsequent days, you can manually fill in your waitlist.

I'm surprised more people don't call several times a day to see if a room is available for their WL and try to scoop it out from under someone who is waiting for the process to run. Or, maybe they do and they just don't post about it.

Reduced call volumes indeed.

 

[jdg345]

But the 180+10 is published everywhere--on the Disney website, in guide books, etc. . If the information is available and you don't make yourself aware of it then yes, that's your fault. DBD wasn't published at all.

I was using that just as an example. What of my examples for Airline Upgrades? Or Free Hotel Room upgrades? What about car rental breaks? There are plenty of 'Tips and Tricks for X' books available for purchase. These are written by individuals who have figured out little ways to get the most out of the system. These are not policy books written by Airline and Hotel companies.

Does that mean these tips and tricks are unfair? Certainly not. It just means we aren't well educated on the subject.

Again, not knowing about it does not make it unfair.

Being told that you cannot and I can just because they feel like it, That is unfair.

 

[jeankeri]

There are several things disconcerting here. For one, it's further evidence that WL's are not automatic. After all, if they were, you should fill your WL right at 9am on Day-2. The previous poster did not get his. DVC has confirmed that when you call on subsequent days, you can manually fill in your waitlist.

The waitlist does not go into effect until the last day of your waitlist. So, you are trying for Mon-Fri, Mon is not available so you can only WL for all days, the WL goes into effect on Fri. Anyone calling in Tue-Fri has first shot at all the days that were available when you originally called on Mon and are able to book those days.

 

[jdg345]

If they really want to discourage walking, it's easily identified and therefore simple to stop. After all, anyone who is calling DBD multiple times to drop & add days is obviously walking. Much different pattern from the person who calls once or twice to tweak a reservation. If TPTB decide that walking is thwarting the intent of the new policy, look for more changes and a whole new thread.

But this brings up an issue that Dean mentioned ... it becomes a grey area. How many adds/drops constitute walking and how many are needed? What if I was going to go one week, but then my employer changes my vacation period? Or a family member can't get that week off but can get the next week off? It's very possible someone would have the need to drop as many as 4,5, or 7 days from the front end and extend it on the back end.

If you leave it up to DVC to decide what is 'abuse' and what is not, then that creates a whole separate definition of fairness. We're going to leave it up to each individual CM to decide what is and isn't? Clearly, they haven't been able to do this to stop spec renters, so I don't see how they would be able to do this to stop walkers. Isn't spec renting easier to identify when someone has a dozen reservations, all during peak periods, under different unrelated names? Though I guess maybe I have a family reunion, every year, and I'm making reservations for everyone under my account. And if this latest policy decision was to improve their bottom line, are they really going to go after someone with the amount of points needed to do this? I'm sure they pay a pretty penny in MF -- I know I do. It's been said DVC loses Millions of Dollars to spec renters. They can't stop it, or they don't want to ... not sure. If the end result of walking is that the rooms are booked anyways, why does DVC care if they don't seem to be able to prevent the loss of millions to spec renters?

The solution will likely be that you can't walk more than 20 separate reservations a year, just like booking more than 20 separate reservations during the same period/season raises a red flag.

In either case, 20 is more than enough for me. And if it raises a red flag, so what? Nothing in the POS as it is written prevents me from doing so. Not even in the most recent version for AKV. That could change for BLT, but for now, nope.

EDIT: Let me be clear here, I would really much rather go back to DBD. I do not like the new policy at all, even with the ability to walk. Does the new policy make it easier or harder for me to do the things I want? It's irrelevent in terms of fairness. The old system made everything available to everyone at the same time. The new system allows some to box out others, and gives advantage to those with more points.

 

[mopee3]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

I was refering to your post to "The Prophet
May be a little late with this but.....", I really don't understand why they could book the Mon-Friday but not the Sunday?
Maybe it will take time to work out the kinks of this system, I just hope I am alive long enough!

M

 

[jdg345]

The waitlist does not go into effect until the last day of your waitlist. So, you are trying for Mon-Fri, Mon is not available so you can only WL for all days, the WL goes into effect on Fri. Anyone calling in Tue-Fri has first shot at all the days that were available when you originally called on Mon and are able to book those days.

Oh yes, that's right, I remember reading that now.

Again, I say: Reduced call volumes indeed.

 

[TisBit]

I find it funny that so many people think in order to stop "walking" would involve some complex penalties system, etc. You can pretty much eliminate "walking" with a simple rule that you cannot modify a reservation (i.e. cancel days) until the last day of the reservation. So if you call at 11+7 you cannot cancel a day until eleven months out exactly of checkout date. This would require people to either tie up points if they have them or wait. While some members with large point contracts might be able to reserve early and walk it a week at a time to reserve the room, it will tie up their points....if they aren't already being used for other reservations.

As far as online booking, I can see how it would be beneficial, but I don't see it as an end all. I could imagine the complaints when the system crashes or the phones go down. Than you have all the renters out there that can check dates easily or creating spec rentals using the online system and creating an unfair advantage to those members that don't have high speed internet! I just could imagine the countless threads about how the online booking system is creating havoc on the whole DVC system.