New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[dvcdisney]

I just don't understand how those who did not like DBD because they could not or would not call at 9am feel that this system is somehow better when in reality this new system puts them days behind people 'in line' versus a few hours.

Exactly!

 

[TyRy]

All,
I did a number on my back this weekend...so haven't been able to make good on my promise.

As soon as I'm back vertical, and can comfortably sit for more than 10 minutes, I PROMISE I'll put the poll up!

I just don't want anyone to think I backed out on them.....

OUCH - feel better soon - here's a little pixie dust that you heal quickly

Yes, thanks for the reply, sorry I was away this weekened and had to get caught up. It's the uneasiness about it all and the not knowing. Which kind of exists with the old system, but the only uneasiness was just that you needed to get through first thing in the morning on your DBD booking, and odds were that you'd get what you wanted via that method, noting there are still exceptions. The new system and walking introduces other factors which make it more unknown.

You are welcome - and I 100% agree with you...yes you had the anxiety of DBD if you wanted something or sometime that was special, but at least you had a shot.

I personally had a heart ache about it when it was announced and was one of the early posters about walking as a way to work the system, see like post #50 or something like that. I was trying to do a AK conceirge on a DBD and was failing miserably. Then the new system launched and tried get Memorial Sunday thru Wednesday. I called and booked 7 days on starting on that Saturday, and was able to get what I wanted. I canceled the Saturday and 2 days on the end to get me what I wanted. I learned that I didn't need to book a 7 day res, just that I could book up to 7 day res, so I learned from that. Yes, I agree that in the process of doing all of that I took up days that someone else may have wanted, which I agree is a bad part of the new system and walking to get what you want, but there isn't another way that I could come up with to ensure you really do get what you want and not just leave it up to chance.

Walking does seem like the only way to get exactly what you want. And while maybe some or all of us on the Disboards are true planners and really go the extra step to get what we want and in the minority, walking may really mess it up for the rest of the members. Maybe they are the same ones who complained they did not want to have to call DBD...wait till they figure out now they'll be calling DBD for a couple of months to walk their ressie instead of calling for just a week or so. As I said, I do in the "easy" times to get a reservation for DVC. But I may actually think about walking my reservation by a couple of weeks just so I can make sure I get what I want for out big family trip next year. Would never have thought about doing that when I at least had the same chance as everyone else. OH - and thinking about what Lisa S. said about walking screwing up WL's pushes me this way as well:

Based on what has been reported about how the wait list will work, I think people who end up on the waiting list due to "walkers" will probably not get their wait list filled, at least not without a lot of effort, unless MS does what dzorn is suggesting.

Example: I call to book my usual 6-night stay. The first few nights are not available, maybe one or more at the end are available but I cannot book them since I can't get the first night. My only option is to waitlist for all six nights. If the nights weren't available due to "walkers" then as they walk forward booking more nights and freeing up some nights, the early nights of my stay become available but my waitlist won't fill because all of the nights are not available. I expect those nights will go to the first caller who is able to make a reservation with them. The only way I can get them is to call at the right time -- soon after the night(s) become available -- and fill in some of the nights of my own wait list. Again, this is based on feedback reported here that the wait list is "all or nothing" but we can call and fill in individual nights of our own wait list if any of those nights happen to be available when we call.

So I am concerned that those of us who choose not to "walk" and end up on a wait list will need to call several times a day to have any chance of filling in our wait list for busy times of the year. I can just see the threads here on the boards asking "walkers" to post the time they will be calling MS that day to free up certain nights so those of us on the waitlist know when to call MS to try to grab those nights for our wait lists.

Yep - that will really cut down on the work for MS or the amount of phone calls all those members who hated DBD calling - this could possibly be a nightmare of wait times between walkers walking and people just calling to book their regular reservations. Perhaps Mr. Lewis and the other "management" who have this high on their list could spend a couple of weeks in the call center starting in November when the walking and regular calls begin for the holidays.

Ty

 

[Bopsmom]

Taking Thanksgiving with a 7 day ressie the Friday before walks over members as well. How many Teachers or families with kids will be shut out of a 4 day Holiday off because of that? Sorry-this is our new system.

I prefer blackouts or going back to the old system, but will use the tools provided.

I am a (MS) and a mother with a school (MS) aged child. I still wouldn't "walk" because it is still unethical.
Sorry, something can't "make" you do something that you know is wrong/unethical- the "system"

made me do it-right?
But then again, it's all about me.
You spin the wheel, you take a chance.

I have spent over an hour and a half on the phone with MS (member satisfaction) this morning talking about ways to regulate the potential for abuse. I intend to follow it up with a letter to go to their meeting.
They are considering charging for each change to a reservation.(hmmm) That should make people happy. While this will not harm commercial renters: they will just pass along the cost. It could/would harm those that have legitimate reasons for changing a reservation. Another suggestion (I suggested) was that you are allowed one change to a reservation(in case of emergency) after that,than you are cancelled and have to rebook. This won't hurt those who really "need" to make a change.
Something that also was mentioned was fees per each re-scheduleing. Great huh!
This thread is being checked into for ways to enforce restrictions and make it "fair" but I don't think it is in the ways you really want it.
If people really want "fair" than it should be "fair" for everyone regardless of the size of the contract.
Ya'll keep "working the system"they will have us up to a regular timeshare program in no time.
YMMV

 

[mjy]

I have spent over an hour and a half on the phone with MS (member satisfaction) this morning talking about ways to regulate the potential for abuse. I intend to follow it up with a letter to go to their meeting.

Oh my . . . this thread is about to get REAL interesting.

 

[jdg345]

The problem with DBD is that not every member knows about DBD booking. It's not something that is well publicized outside of websites like this one.

CM's were pretty liberal about sharing details of how it works. I imagine the same people that DBD'd are the same people that are going to Walk ... so what's the difference here? Other than someone booking a week before you versus a few hours before?

If the situation is that you feel most people did not know about DBD, but now everyone will know about booking based on arrival, don't you think that this will likely lessen the chances of those who could not book DBD? If very few knew about DBD, then very few would have a few hours head-start. With the new system, many many more would have several days head-start.

 

[jdg345]

I will be a walker, but I do agree with you.
Unfortunately it's a corner that DVC has backed us into, or at least some of us who need specific dates or specific rooms.

Change the rule back, and they'll be no walking..

MG

Exactly ... I agree as well, DBD at least was booking rooms people wanted. At the end of the day, people DBD'd to give themselves the best shot at their dates. Now they'll just do the same with walking -- the difference is that this ties up dates that others may want and now may not get.

This is precisely why the DBD system was better and more fair.

 

[danielle782001]

How is "walking" any different?

We always like to travel around Thanksgiving for a variety of reasons. We prefer the week after Thanksgiving, with an arrival the day after Thanksgiving. I don't like my chances of getting a day after Thanksgiving arrival under the new system. So I'll book an arrival the Friday before Thanksgiving and we'll go all of Thanksgiving week if we have to. However, just like you might prefer to stay in a different resort, I might prefer to arrive later in the week. So I'll secure what I can, and change to reservations to suit my needs if possible, all the while knowing I might have to use my existing reservation. I can't see DVC prohibiting all "walking" because what I just described is completely valid, and ethical.

I wish I didn't have to make a reservation for all of Thanksgiving week that we do not wish to use....we make it because we need the backup plan...we need to know we have a room around the time we prefer to travel...so we make the reservation we are entitled to make...and see if we can change to more desireable dates for that vacation...but we will keep our original reservation if we need to...we will only change the dates if something more desireable is available....and so the rest goes.

If you in fact plan to keep all of the original dates there is no difference...

However, that is not the goal of walking as far as a can see...When you walk a reservation your true "intension" is to book nights you are sure that you do not plan to use...The entire idea behind walking is that you plan to book nights on the front that you have no intension on ever using...

When a person books at 11 months at their home resort for a specific set of dates there is an intension to travel on those exact dates even if the person wants to change the resort (not the dates) at 7 months...The person booking at 11 months is not looking to add and then drop nights to make the system work...

DVC policies along with high membership and low inventory have created the need to book dates and locations that we do not really want...It is a shame that it has to be this way...

I hope that new DVC resorts/projects will help us all avoid having to use these tactics for booking our vacations for the entire life of our memberships.

 

[jdg345]

I like "persistent" better, since it is within the rules. But yes-the old system was better, but this has been forced on us. Then again-reserving a day you know you wont use, also means a day you know you will be giving back to the system within a few days. So you kind of only "borrow" them. That will either fill a WL and make someones day, or open days for new callers.

The issue with this is that due to the way the system works, it may or may not be FCFS. It's possible that I waitlist weeks ahead of you, but because you called right after someone cancelled, you get the room that my WL requires.

 

[Kathi OD]

If you don't want to use the word 'fair', that's fine ... but what would you prefer:

A system that allows all inventory to be available at 9am or
A system where you are competing for reduced inventory at 9am?

In the first case, even if you can't call in the morning, you're giving up what? A few hours?

In the second case, if you can't call in the morning, you're giving up over 7 days.

I just don't understand how those who did not like DBD because they could not or would not call at 9am feel that this system is somehow better when in reality this new system puts them days behind people 'in line' versus a few hours.

Actually, I've said that neither system is equitable or fair. I personally think booking based on check-out date only, with no DBD calls permitted, is probably the most equitable or fair system for all members.

 

[jdg345]

I think "peresistent "was what calling DBD was being. You were only taking a spot you knew you were going to use;no one was bothered or inconvenienced by the process(except MS I guess).

Look, I'm no or but, it sounds like a rationalization to me.
I can't/won't attempt to tell myself that walking a reservation others are going to benefit somehow. The system doesn't know you are "only borrowing" the room; nor do the other DVC'rs who call for their vacation times according to the rules. They don't know that the walkers will be "granting" their desired vacation by such an "act of kindness"; releasing a room that wasn't actually going to be used in the first place. Wow, what a benefactress I could be....

I know we have enough points to walk a couple of weeks at a time, but I don't think I could enjoy a vacation where I knew that my selfish act caused others to be placed on WL because they didn't have a many points as we do.

Walking a reservation, "walks" over other members of the program.
It is sad, but I won't let the system "make" me do something I know is not right.

YMMV

But those that do see the potential that rooms are only being borrowed and understand the WL process will likely be calling several times a day to see if they can get their dates. And this takes us back to: This is going to lower call volumes to MS? How?

 

[jdg345]

Hmmm...

Walking: Booking a room for a few days that you don't want, then cancelling them within a day or so, in order to get the days you do want. Apparently this is unethical.

Booking a reservation at your home resort at 11 months that you have no intention of using, then rebooking at a different resort at 7 months and cancelling the original reservation after tying it up for 4 months. Apparently this is a perfectly acceptable process.

Well, you might have had an intention of using that date at 11 months if you couldn't swap at 7.

With Walking, you have absolutely 0 intential of using those days. It's not a 'just in case' reservation, it's a "I'm holding a spot so I can get my reservation" situation.

 

[Chuck S]

They are considering charging for each change to a reservation.(hmmm) That should make people happy. While this will not harm commercial renters: they will just pass along the cost.
Something that also was mentioned was fees per each re-scheduleing. Great huh!

I don't think adding fees as they suggest would exactly be legal. I don't think they can put additional fees on making reservations to use our points at our home resorts. They could make us cancel the entire reservation. Or wait a few days after the 11 month window end date of the reservation to make changes, but I don't think charging to make use of your points at a resort you "legally" have a right to use under timeshare law, as long as the annual dues are paid, would work.

 

[kimberh]

As an SSR and BCV owner, here's what I'm going to do:
I will call tomorrow to book VWL for December 2009. I just have to book a ressie for 7mos + 7 days, then walk my ressie each day for the next year.

It's not a desperate joke given the stupidity with which this change was undertaken. I am only deciding how many months in advance I will start walking next year's Xmas/New Year's reservation. I actually considered starting to walk for Xmas 2009 this week, but think that I will probably do it just a couple of months in advance. I think that they have created a system where this is essential since our vacations are very limited in terms of the start dates and are almost always at the Xmas holidays. We will see how this plays out.

Doctor P, The top post is what I was referring to is a Desperate Joke. How could a SSR - BCV owner even begin to think he could walk a reservation over a year for VWL Dec 2009? I did highlight this in my original post. I think the whole situation is wrong. I think the Home resort owner should do whatever they need to do to secure their time that they have paid dearly for. I own at 4 DVC resorts, to stay there when I want to at the accommdations that I want to stay at. I have paid a pretty penny for this option (just as all owners have) After I have thought about the above example, I don't even think it is possible.

I have another situation for all of you to think about... I had a transfer made yesterday with Home resort points, the computer has a glitch with programing that it won't except the booking ahead reservation with transferred points, I have to wait until the end of the time frame and call back. Member Services said, " I did everything correct, it is the computer.

 

[Ragtime Gal]

My neighbor who owns at BWV called this morning to walk his April reservation forward. He has been walking all week with no problems. He was told this morning that in order to change his current reservation, he would have to cancel the whole thing and rebook. He hung up, got another person, and that person let him walk.

Do you think this is a change to the policy or just a member services person who didn't know how to add nights to a current reservation?

 

[Bopsmom]

If you in fact plan to keep all of the original dates there is no difference...

However, that is not the goal of walking as far as a can see...When you walk a reservation your true "intension" is to book nights you are sure that you do not plan to use...The entire idea behind walking is that you plan to book nights on the front that you have no intension on ever using...

When a person books at 11 months at their home resort for a specific set of dates there is an intension to travel on those exact dates even if the person wants to change the resort (not the dates) at 7 months...The person booking at 11 months is not looking to add and then drop nights to make the system work...

DVC policies along with high membership and low inventory have created the need to book dates and locations that we do not really want...It is a shame that it has to be this way...

I hope that new DVC resorts/projects will help us all avoid having to use these tactics for booking our vacations for the entire life of our memberships.

I don't think adding fees as they suggest would exactly be legal. I don't think they can put additional fees on making reservations to use our points at our home resorts.

MS only thought that people were "walking" for a 7month reservation. Ha Now they know, thanks to this thread, that people are planning to walk 14, 13, 12 months ahead at a "home" resort, instead of a 11+7. Now they should be really ready to stop the process.
If you really want to know how well a system works-post it then leave it up to the public, they will figure ways around it; then you can plug the holes.
That's probably why we haven't had the other shoe drop-restrictions.

 

[Kathi OD]

CM's were pretty liberal about sharing details of how it works. I imagine the same people that DBD'd are the same people that are going to Walk ... so what's the difference here? Other than someone booking a week before you versus a few hours before?

If the situation is that you feel most people did not know about DBD, but now everyone will know about booking based on arrival, don't you think that this will likely lessen the chances of those who could not book DBD? If very few knew about DBD, then very few would have a few hours head-start. With the new system, many many more would have several days head-start.

How do you define liberal? In the past 8 years I've probably made between 12 and 15 ressies and have never been told about booking DBD by any CM. That doesn't seem very liberal to me, but again, it's based on personal experience. I've only ever been told that I can waitlist, which, BTW, have always come through for me, again, there's that personal experience thing.

I don't think that nearly as many people will consider walking their ressie as the people on this thread seem to think will. My personal opinion is that some people will always looking for a way to manipulate systems for their own agenda and that most of the time the system can handle those few cases. It's not until the loopholes become publicized that system becomes overwhelmed and a change is necesary. DBD did it to the old system and walking will do it to the new system.

IMO, those looking to take advantage for their own gain are those who are sapping the flexibility from DVC. People have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[DisneyKidds]

If you in fact plan to keep all of the original dates there is no difference...

However, that is not the goal of walking as far as a can see...When you walk a reservation your true "intension" is to book nights you are sure that you do not plan to use...The entire idea behind walking is that you plan to book nights on the front that you have no intension on ever using...

When a person books at 11 months at their home resort for a specific set of dates there is an intension to travel on those exact dates even if the person wants to change the resort (not the dates) at 7 months...The person booking at 11 months is not looking to add and then drop nights to make the system work...

DVC policies along with high membership and low inventory have created the need to book dates and locations that we do not really want...It is a shame that it has to be this way...

I hope that new DVC resorts/projects will help us all avoid having to use these tactics for booking our vacations for the entire life of our memberships.

Who's to say that someone who was able to "walk" a reservation had no intention of keeping the reservation as originally booked? Sure, some people might never have any intention to use the original dates, but preventing all walking could also be detrimental to members who have no intention to abuse the system but still work within the rules to get the best possible vacation for their family. I just don't see how anyone can assign "intentions" to every walking scenario.

IMHO, DVC has created much more work for themselves with this new system, along with reducing overall fairness and flexibility for members. Not only will there be as many, or more, calls as before the change for reservations, but now management will have to devote time to evaluating the new (and flawed in my opinion) system and design abuse preventions........which in and of itself will be a never ending quagmire. They can prevent one thing, but then enterprising members will find another way to accomplish their goals....and so the cycle will continue.

I'm not sure DVC can even institute certain changes. For instance, under the terms of our contracts does DVC even have the right to institute fees for making changes to reservations? Think of the legal battles DVC could get themselves into if they don't have that right but do it anyway.

 

[robinb]

Based on what has been reported about how the wait list will work, I think people who end up on the waiting list due to "walkers" will probably not get their wait list filled, at least not without a lot of effort, unless MS does what dzorn is suggesting.

I think that if walkers wait until the last day to extend their reservation and release many days at once instead of one day at a time, then there is a better chance of fulfilling someone's waitlist. As an aside, If I called and had to waitlist for my 7-day vacation you better bet that I will call the next day and try to book a 6-day vacation to make my waitlist as small as possible!

 

[Kathi OD]

Well, you might have had an intention of using that date at 11 months if you couldn't swap at 7.

With Walking, you have absolutely 0 intential of using those days. It's not a 'just in case' reservation, it's a "I'm holding a spot so I can get my reservation" situation.

 

[jdg345]

Well I made a reservation this morning. I decided to do it cleanly for a test (did not walk into it). From my understanding it is one of the most difficult reservations to get during the summer, OKW grand villa 5 weekdays HH designations (there are only 4). I called exactly at 9AM and was able to book it.

Congratulations!