New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[Dean]

Dean, this is a valid idea if the priority is contiguous reservations, not equal and fair access.

bookwormde

There is NO system that is totally equal and fair. There will always be losers in any and EVERY system.

Which you could have done under the old system too.

If available. The chances for this situation are significantly improved under the new system.

Given there are only so many rooms and so many points and assuming all the negative concerns many have, there is really only one way an individual could lose out under the new system compared to the old one. That is if they fall on the back side or a high demand time such as NYE after Xmas. But the reality is that any time that one can't get a room, there was always someone who couldn't get that room before. It may have been a different person but likely it will be the same people being successful now as then with extremely few exceptions.

That said, I think folks are smart enough that if there is a way to give themselves an advantage, within the rules (or not, in some cases), they are going to use it if they feel they need to.

Realizing that DVC makes the rules when it comes to reservations, how would one go about being outside the rules. I understand it's possible (actually likely with Disney) to get variable enforcement. The only way I could think of for an individual to be outside the rules in a way under their control would be to have someone on the inside giving them preferential treatment.

 

[BroganMc]

I, too, apologize if this has been mentioned already, but does anyone think the timing of this is strange? Just when BLT points are about to be available, they make this announcement. My first thought was that DVC wants us all to panic and purchase a lot of points at BLT in order to have an edge when it comes to making reservations. Maybe I'm way off base.

I doubt DVC needs to do anything other than offer BLT for sale to make money on that venture.

More than likely they looked at how other timeshares, including Interval, manage bookings and thought it would make an easy copy for DVC. What they failed to realize is that DVC has always been a nightly points based system so works differently.

For example, I know with Marriott I am booking a full week every time I go. My only concern is what night I'm going to start. And even then, they have changed things to allow for more check-in days at their resorts. (Used to be only Friday-Sunday but now they're adding Mon, Tues & Thurs.)

With Disney I tend to check-in Sunday so I can have 5 days of low points. I have stayed for a week or more but always in a way to minimize the weekend nights. And when I fly down I down short stays. To date all my high demand times (early December and NYE) have been 3-5 days. NYE required DBD 9am bookings. Early December required me spending double points on a 1bedroom because no HA studios were left.

BTW, I emailed DVC Member Satisfaction about my concerns regarding booking HA rooms. I got a call back this weekend and had a long chat with them about the ramifications of such a policy. It pretty much means my expectation of getting a HA studio for NYE '09/'10 has gone down to CRT status... wing and a prayer. I don't fancy walking my ressie (though my December Use Year makes it possible) or competing with the other Christmas week guests just for my measly 3 day trip. And there's no way I'm blowing 108 points just for 3 nights in a 1bedroom.

 

[robinb]

Questions:
- On the last two days when I drop 23pts. each day, what happens to those points, do they go in holding?

No, as long as you cancel those days at least 31 days before the start of your vacation.

- Am I forced to use them during that use year?

Nope. You can borrow them into the previous UY and you can bank them forward if you cancel your reservation within your banking period.

- How does it work if I had to borrow points (say 20 points) from the next year to fill the original 156 pt. reservation (I had 136 current use year), but now I don't need those 20 points for my final reservation (I only need 110 to cover my final reservation)?

Borrowed/banked points are the last to be removed from your reservation no matter what day they were used in booking. The 20 points that you would receive back would be from your current UY.

 

[Dean]

I don't agree with this because it assumes that I don't have as much right to booking my reservation as someone who had a vacation planned before myself.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, at least up to the points of a full reservation which we could define as 1 week or two, you pick. But having one holding a day and you getting every day thereafter with them not getting it is not "fair" either.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

With Disney I tend to check-in Sunday so I can have 5 days of low points. I have stayed for a week or more but always in a way to minimize the weekend nights. And when I fly down I down short stays. To date all my high demand times (early December and NYE) have been 3-5 days. NYE required DBD 9am bookings. Early December required me spending double points on a 1bedroom because no HA studios were left.

.

Two questions BroganMc - did you do your early Dec. stay day by day at 11 months as well? And HA is a guaranteed booking? I'm assuming it would have to be but at one time got the impression from someone else that even that was just a request - not that I see how it could be.

I've developed even more concerns since I wrote to DVC and plan on writing again.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

DVC Grandpa

Here is a reprint of my previous response to his concern

They could still do that at the 11 month mark which in most cases would not be a problem unless the wanted concierge or 2 studios for the week of Christmas.

This is not a must; it just stops some avenues of gaming the system and reduces serial renters from grabbing chunks of rooms with 1 call. It might work if you could only do 1 reservation per call or per hour rather than restricting it totally during the 11+7 period. Members with 2 separate contracts (under different formal names could still do it).

boowkormde

Still, why should I as a member in good standing, not be able to make four reservations for my family at the same time…all who are associate members. What you have to realize, we go as a family, all 18 of us, and if we get “locked out” of the last room we don’t go. I own at BCV and only four rooms would work. Rescind this new “enhanced” policy!

 

[Cinderelli]

I've been watching this thread for several days now and have read ALL the posts. Thank goodness I'm on summer break. I work with the school system and am only able to vacation during school holidays. We so love DVC that we decided to add on BWV points (to our original OKW purchase) so that we could do a NYE vacation every few years. We are a family of 5 and need a 2 bedroom and understood that we would only be able to "afford" 3 nights in a 2 bedroom every 3 years over NYE. But, that is specifically why we purchased our add-on. I feel fortunate and blessed to have experienced that vacation this past NYE. It very well may be our first/last. I imagine there are other members that have purchased add-ons similar to ours, for the express purpose of staying in a certain resort, in a certain type room (2 bedroom), at a specific time of year.

With this new policy, I think we can kiss our every 3 year trip goodbye. Yes, if we were fortunate enough we could buy points and be able to "walk" our days, but we only have enough points to walk 3 days early. Bottom line, we now cannot compete for this valued NYE trip with other members who can book days before us.

Perhaps those that own more points should have an advantage. I'm not here to judge. I just want to say that previously Disney had a policy in place that made it advantageous for us to fork out an extra few thousand dollars for the chance to have this NYE experience that is so important to us. Now that chance has virtually been eliminated. Even if we didn't call at exactly at 9 AM we were pretty much assured a room (regardless of SV or PV). But we were on the same footing that day as every one else.

If I want to have even a remote chance, I have to "walk" my reservation. But, seeing how I need a 2 bedroom and can only "afford" 3 nights, I can only start "walking" 3 nights early. That means I'm still behind all of those who can stalk "walking" a week early.

I can't decide if I'll email DVC or not. My DH wants to just sell our BWV points, I want to keep the points.

From my perspective, the only people who NEEDED/WANTED to call DBD are the same ones who NEED/WANT to call DBD now (peak seasons), and this matter hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is the fact that now people will be "walking" these reservations, thus tying up rooms on days that they don't need, that other members could book and keep. It was better before.

And, the chance of our family purchasing a BLT add-on for those "specific times of year in a specific room" (which I was really hoping to do) have vanished..........."poof".............all with the change of this policy.

Thanks for hearing my vent.

Lissa

 

[toyboy]

Cinderelli,
I agree with you. I was toying with purchasing BLT when it became available in a smaller increment that would let me borrow and bank for one trip every three years for a 5 or 6 night vacation. But with the rule change I am questioning that logic. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars only to find out I can't get a reservation when I need it because someone has already booked rooms 1 or 2 days before me. Maybe DVC will stand up and notice when more of its membership decide not to do an add-on because of the new policy. Hopefully they listen to some of the advice here on the DIS to revert back to the old system, or fix the new one by forcing a 14 day lockout to reservation changes. I don't think anything will change until they feel it will affect the bottom line.

 

[Cinderelli]

Thanks Toyboy! I waited for a couple of days before posting and I can only think there are many more of us out there that haven't posted at all, but will be reconsidering add-ons because of this change. We definately won't be adding on at this point. I guess we'll wait and see.

Lissa

 

[AKV707]

OK, it's getting late, I'm tired, and have been a DVC member for less than a year. So no flames please.

Under the old system, couldn't a member with enough points "walk" anyway?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I haven't read the bizillion posts on this thread, nor am I likely to at some later date.

I just can't imagine how this will be a good system, other than not having to call everyday for difficult ressies.

It may be good for MS, but not the member.

MG

 

[Deb & Bill]

OK, it's getting late, I'm tired, and have been a DVC member for less than a year. So no flames please.

Under the old system, couldn't a member with enough points "walk" anyway?

But on day one everyone was equal. Everyone had the same chance to call as soon as MS opened on that day. And if you needed to call DBD, you could. Now, the first day you call, your first day and the next five days may already be gone.

 

[robinb]

With this new policy, I think we can kiss our every 3 year trip goodbye. Yes, if we were fortunate enough we could buy points and be able to "walk" our days, but we only have enough points to walk 3 days early. Bottom line, we now cannot compete for this valued NYE trip with other members who can book days before us.

I sincerely feel for you. We are only a family of 3, so I can "walk" a studio if I need to. A 1 BR (even with 200 points) over NYE is more problematic.

FWIW, I think that you have a VERY GOOD chance of getting your reservation anyway if a preferred view is OK with you. You may even be able to "walk" your waitlist to keep a higher WL priority. Good luck! Maybe we'll see you over NYE at BWV in 2008 .

 

[tidefan]

... not the booking system.

It is becoming more and more apparent to me that the big problem here is getting NYE at the BWV. Again, I question that if there are only so many rooms available and the demand is truly that high, then SOMEBODY is going to get left out, regardless of when they can book. Demand is too high apparently at BWV on NYE. A previous poster indicated that they bought specifically to do this. I guess I question if you HAD to have a specific time at a specific resort, why buy into DVC at all? Given that DVC is a flexible booking system, then you can have numerous members all vying for the same time. Only a fixed system would guarantee a member the exact nights they need. Since most on this board, I would imagine, would not like to give up that flexibility, over-demand at a resort during certain times is a price that we have to pay for not having a fixed system. If I HAD to HAVE a certain night at a certain resort (i.e. NYE) then wouldn't just making a reservation at BWI, for instance, through CRO be easier to do?

I think that DVC tries to mitigate this by increasing points for those times. Again, it really seems to me that the easy way for DVC to address this issue is by examining the point charts. As long as that Std view studio is as low as 16 points for NYE, lots of folks will try to grab it. Would as many try if the point cost was, say, 25 points? I think DVC needs to look at demand and look at reallocating IF THERE IS ACTUALLY A PROBLEM. Again, until we go through one booking cycle with the new policy, we are only speculating. We don't really know if all of these rooms will fill up day 1. If they do, then DVC needs to look at the points, if not, then the system will work OK and we will have gotten all up in arms over speculation (which in a way is what is happening with oil right now, but I digress...).

I just think that we may be jumping the gun a bit...

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The biggest change I see with the new system is that we no longer have a level playing field where all members have the same opportunity to reserve a specific date. Even with day-by-day reservations, everyone had the same opportunity to reserve each date. Under the new policy it is entirely possible that some reservations will not be available to members calling exactly at 11 months from their check-in date.

Okay, okay... I decided to skim the thread.

The above excerpt from Doc's post sums up my thoughts exactly.

MG

 

[dvcdisney]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, at least up to the points of a full reservation which we could define as 1 week or two, you pick. But having one holding a day and you getting every day thereafter with them not getting it is not "fair" either.

Yes, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I understand fully what you are saying, however, I don't understand why it would not be fair if I call each day and get the rooms I want and at the same time, some other member is not getting it. We do have the same opportunity to call on the same day at 9am. If that person chooses not to call at that time doesn't mean it's not fair. What is not fair is if I was allowed to call at 8am that day and the other member was not...then it wouldn't be fair. But that is not the case. That member has the same chance as I do, along with all the other members, to get that room. I just don't see this as not being fair. When everyone has no advantage over another to get a specific room (of course, all being equal in Home Resort Priority), then we're all in the same boat.

And for a member to be able to book that date and room (and subsequent days and rooms) before I am even "allowed" to call is what I think is not fair. Just because that member has a vacation that is a day or two (or even 6 days) before mine, doesn't mean they should have access to booking that room before myself. Just like, just because I have a vacation before someone else, doesn't mean I should have the priority over them for the next 7 days. This is why so many are considering the "walking" method.

There was no need to "walk" a vacation in the old system since it did not give you any advantage over anyone. You book the days you wanted without trying to "game the system". You didn't feel that you needed to book early so as to take a day or two (or even 6 days) ahead of your intended dates in order to have priority over someone else. You just booked the dates you wanted.

Again, I agree. We have to agree to disagree because we're obviously seeing this topic from different perspectives. However, again, I cannot see how members having equal footing for each day is unfair.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

Keep those Letters coming. It is the only way to get to get our message across.

Mr. James Lewis
Senior Vice President - Disney Vacation Club
Executive Office
Walt Disney Resort
PO Box 10000
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-1000

Jim.m.lewis@disney.com


Mr. Robert Iger
Walt Disney Corporation
500 So Buena Vista
Burbank, CA 91521-9722



DVCMemberSatisfactionTeam@disneyvacationclub.com

 

[Dean]

Yes, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I understand fully what you are saying, however, I don't understand why it would not be fair if I call each day and get the rooms I want and at the same time, some other member is not getting it. We do have the same opportunity to call on the same day at 9am.

So you agree it's OK for one to get what they want and another not to even if they call at 9 am 11 months out. With than in mind assume both the people above are calling exactly at 9 am but just by luck of when they hit the button or who answers their phone first you get it and the other person doesn't. Also assume the next day it works the other way and the other person gets the room and you don't. Now you're each holding a day the other needs and wait listed for what the other holds. But at least if we agree it's OK for one person to call at 11 months and not get what they want, it then becomes a question of how to decide who gets what. Is it by luck of who/when they answer the phone or by reserving a contiguous reservation on one phone call. I feel both are OK and there are some advantages to both some members and to the system with the change. It may very well be it is to your disadvantage and I say that is OK (it likely is to my disadvantage also).

And for a member to be able to book that date and room (and subsequent days and rooms) before I am even "allowed" to call is what I think is not fair. Just because that member has a vacation that is a day or two (or even 6 days) before mine, doesn't mean they should have access to booking that room before myself.

I guess that's where we really disagree. I do think it's appropriate to ensure one person gets the entire reservation in this situation at the expense of another not getting it. Again, it's simply a question of who gets it and who doesn't "11 months" out.

 

[JLitfin]

Do you find this new system is only going to be a problem during certain times only, Christmas week and F&W in October and for certain room types. I don't have enough pts to walk a reservation but I also don't go to WDW during these peak times. Do you think members will have an issue getting reservations during other times of the year? We usually go to WDW in late January. For the first time since I've own pts, I was planning on booking a studio in 2009 during the 1st or 2nd week of December, will I have a problem getting this reservation with the new system? I was planning on calling DBD in order to book at my home resort with the old rules. After reading this thread I'm concerned whether I'll get my reservation or not.

I've been reading this thread daily and trying to figure everything out in my head how hard it's really going to be when I go to make my reservations. Like I said I don't have enough pts to walk a reservation, so am I going to be shut out on being able to reserve a unit at my home resort. I usually plan and reserve 11 months out.

I was also planning on adding on about 50 pts at BLT but now I'll have to see how things pan out with the new reservation system. If I won't be able to get reservations every three years than it's not worth purchasing the pts.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Do you find this new system is only going to be a problem during certain times only, Christmas week and F&W in October and for certain room types. I don't have enough pts to walk a reservation but I also don't go to WDW during these peak times. Do you think members will have an issue getting reservations during other times of the year? We usually go to WDW in late January. For the first time since I've own pts, I was planning on booking a studio in 2009 during the 1st or 2nd week of December, will I have a problem getting this reservation with the new system? I was planning on calling DBD in order to book at my home resort with the old rules. After reading this thread I'm concerned whether I'll get my reservation or not.

I've been reading this thread daily and trying to figure everything out in my head how hard it's really going to be when I go to make my reservations. Like I said I don't have enough pts to walk a reservation, so am I going to be shut out on being able to reserve a unit at my home resort. I usually plan and reserve 11 months out.

I was also planning on adding on about 50 pts at BLT but now I'll have to see how things pan out with the new reservation system. If I won't be able to get reservations every three years than it's not worth purchasing the pts.

I do NOT think it will matter to the majority of the members who use their points in the way you do. The only real issue is for those holiday times or for the hard to get ressies like AKV concierge, or value...BWV standard or boardwalk view, and BCV dedicated 2 bedroom with 2 beds. I did tell Joy that also when I spoke with her. We do have to be careful that we don't react too violently, because that would be unreasonable too. All I ask for is that EVERYONE have the same opportunity to book those hard to get reservations and rooms, and the only way for that to be possible is if no one can call ahead of the 11 month window for any specific room. With this new system, you could call and book the last concierge 2 bedroom for my time period 7 days before I could even make the first call. THAT is the unfair part of it.