New Policy for Adding Dining Plan

[otterpop]

I think this would be awesome! I don't see it as Disney would be losing money, because now they would be making it more "enticing" to those who would have not purchased the dining plan in the first place.

Also, I realize this thread has started to take a different direction with comparing TIW to the DDP. I recently posted in another thread comparing the two from a cost only stand point, and this is what I came up with. Please keep in mind that the below example is not true for all restaurants and also who is in your dining "party" (i.e. how many adults versus kids).

------------------

For example, if you went to a character meal, lets say a dinner at Akershus. The cost of the dinner for a child 9 and under would normally be $22.35 (includes tax). The basic DP for a child 9 and under for one day is 11.99, which also includes a counter service meal and one snack for the day. If you include the price of the CS meal (approx $5.00) and one snack (approx. $3.00), then the savings by using the DP would be about $18. TIW would give you a savings of about $6 (20% off of $30).

Lets look at the same scenario, but for an adult. The cost of the dinner for an adult at Akershus would normally be $40.46 (includes tax). The basic DP for an adult for one day is 45.99, which also includes a counter service meal and one snack for the day. If you include the price of the CS meal (approx $14.00) and one snack (approx. $3.00), then the savings by using the DP would be about $11.47. TIW would give you a savings of about $11.49 (20% off of $57.46). Basically it's a wash.

So, unless I am missing something or made a bad calculation, then it would appear that if you have kids, the dining plan is really worth it. If you do not have kids, then it doesn't matter. But, as almost everyone has mentioned, TIW gives you the flexibility of eating what you want and with the DP, you are locked into eating what Disney gives you (does everyone really need to have a dessert with every meal, probably not, but then again..you are on vacation!!!!).

Also as what was just mentioned, don't forget the $75 you need to spend for TIW up front...

------------------------------

Evan

 

[dzorn]

I think this would be awesome! I don't see it as Disney would be losing money, because now they would be making it more "enticing" to those who would have not purchased the dining plan in the first place.

Also, I realize this thread has started to take a different direction with comparing TIW to the DDP. I recently posted in another thread comparing the two from a cost only stand point, and this is what I came up with. Please keep in mind that the below example is not true for all restaurants and also who is in your dining "party" (i.e. how many adults versus kids).

------------------

For example, if you went to a character meal, lets say a dinner at Akershus. The cost of the dinner for a child 9 and under would normally be $22.35 (includes tax). The basic DP for a child 9 and under for one day is 11.99, which also includes a counter service meal and one snack for the day. If you include the price of the CS meal (approx $5.00) and one snack (approx. $3.00), then the savings by using the DP would be about $18. TIW would give you a savings of about $6 (20% off of $30).

Lets look at the same scenario, but for an adult. The cost of the dinner for an adult at Akershus would normally be $40.46 (includes tax). The basic DP for an adult for one day is 45.99, which also includes a counter service meal and one snack for the day. If you include the price of the CS meal (approx $14.00) and one snack (approx. $3.00), then the savings by using the DP would be about $11.47. TIW would give you a savings of about $11.49 (20% off of $57.46). Basically it's a wash.

So, unless I am missing something or made a bad calculation, then it would appear that if you have kids, the dining plan is really worth it. If you do not have kids, then it doesn't matter. But, as almost everyone has mentioned, TIW gives you the flexibility of eating what you want and with the DP, you are locked into eating what Disney gives you (does everyone really need to have a dessert with every meal, probably not, but then again..you are on vacation!!!!).

Also as what was just mentioned, don't forget the $75 you need to spend for TIW up front...

------------------------------

Evan

We did not purchase the dining plan last trip because it is just too much food to many days in a row. I would probably purchase it if we could buy only a few days credits and use them during the whole stay.

Denise in MI

 

[bookwormde]

I would never in the past do DDP when I was in a villa, and we just eat our meals in the vills, but they just might tempt me to do a day or 2 of DDP

bookwormde

 

[dr&momto2boys]

20% discount...mandatory 18% tip....for $75??? Thanks but no thanks.

Run the numbers, you'd be surprised! It always comes out better for us than any of the dining plans! And 18% tip is savings for us! We usually tip 20% What do you tip?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Run the numbers, you'd be surprised! It always comes out better for us than any of the dining plans! And 18% tip is savings for us! We usually tip 20% What do you tip?

Yup.. We eat at signatures most every night and don't hold back. The booze flows, and the bill climbs. The 20% off the booze is a huge savings over the course of a year. Heck, two visits with my wife to the Green Cabin Room covers the price of the TIW card. I estimate the TIW card saves me at least $1000 per year.
That said, there is no law against having a TIW card in addition to the DP, and using it for things that the DP doesn't cover.

MG

 

[mdsd8700]

I am always jealous of those who get the TIW Card . We live in IL and do not get annual passes, so we can't get it. However we love the nicer resturants and especially the "signature" ones. Enjoy a bottle of wine or a few drinks at every meal and generally tip 20% unless the service was less than satisfactory. There are 4 of us 2 adults, 2 kids (Disney Adults) so even at the $75 yearly cost I beleive it would save money on possibly one longer trip and definately 2 per year. Oh well all I can do is dream.

 

[cseca]

I am always jealous of those who get the TIW Card . We live in IL and do not get annual passes, so we can't get it. However we love the nicer resturants and especially the "signature" ones. Enjoy a bottle of wine or a few drinks at every meal and generally tip 20% unless the service was less than satisfactory. There are 4 of us 2 adults, 2 kids (Disney Adults) so even at the $75 yearly cost I beleive it would save money on possibly one longer trip and definately 2 per year. Oh well all I can do is dream.

I know how you feel...
BTW, have you run the numbers for buying just 1 AP to get the TIW card?

It would all depend on how many people in your party, how often you eat TS meals, how many days you go and of course what type of ticket you usually get of course.

But it'd be interesting to see some number crunching in certain cases...

 

[tjkraz]

I think this would be awesome! I don't see it as Disney would be losing money, because now they would be making it more "enticing" to those who would have not purchased the dining plan in the first place.

Perhaps but it also opens the door to people leveraging the dining plan simply to save on a couple of meals.

Part of the premise of the dining plan is a hedge that buyers will:

1. NOT eat at the most expensive locations / most expensive meals / highest priced menu items every single day. In your example, dinner at Akerhaus obviously costs much more than at sit-down breakfast at Olivia's. But many DDP participants still choose to use credits for those lower priced locations and meals simply because they don't want to have beef tenderloin for dinner every night.

If Disney gives guests the ability to selectively purchase the dining plan for only certain nights, you better believe that most people will bend over backward to maximize the value of those credits. In other words, NOBODY is buying 2 nights worth of DDP credits (over a much longer trip) and using credits for breakfast at Olivia's.


2. Some credits will go unused simply because people tire of the experience. I'm not going to pretend that this is a huge number but certainly SOME percentage of the credits are unused. Could be just a TS or CS credit here and there or a few snack credits that were ignored. Whatever the circumstances--early flight, sick family member, poor planning, inability to get ADRs--it DOES happen.

And again, if Disney allows guests to selectively buy the plan for less than their total length of stay, this unused quantity will disappear.

In general, I tend to not agree with the idea that "if 'X' cost less, Disney would make more money because more people would buy it." If that were true, Disney would just reduce prices across the board and watch its profits soar!

In reality, price reductions result in a lower profit margin on each item sold. The question is whether you can recoup those lost sales via an increase in volume. That's particularly tough to do in the restaurant industry where seating capacity limits the number of diners you can service in a given day.

IMO, something like this would make the most sense if Disney intended on charging a higher rate for people buying a dining plan for less than their full length of stay. A few months ago Disney started giving people the option to ADD credits to their dining plan purchase. Turned out that they were charging about 1.5x the normal nightly rate for that privilege. I could see something similar happening here.

From Disney's perspective, allowing selective DDP purchases defeats the purpose of having a meal plan in the first place.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Perhaps but it also opens the door to people leveraging the dining plan simply to save on a couple of meals.

Part of the premise of the dining plan is a hedge that buyers will:

1. NOT eat at the most expensive locations / most expensive meals / highest priced menu items every single day. In your example, dinner at Akerhaus obviously costs much more than at sit-down breakfast at Olivia's. But many DDP participants still choose to use credits for those lower priced locations and meals simply because they don't want to have beef tenderloin for dinner every night.

If Disney gives guests the ability to selectively purchase the dining plan for only certain nights, you better believe that most people will bend over backward to maximize the value of those credits. In other words, NOBODY is buying 2 nights worth of DDP credits (over a much longer trip) and using credits for breakfast at Olivia's.


2. Some credits will go unused simply because people tire of the experience. I'm not going to pretend that this is a huge number but certainly SOME percentage of the credits are unused. Could be just a TS or CS credit here and there or a few snack credits that were ignored. Whatever the circumstances--early flight, sick family member, poor planning, inability to get ADRs--it DOES happen.

And again, if Disney allows guests to selectively buy the plan for less than their total length of stay, this unused quantity will disappear.

In general, I tend to not agree with the idea that "if 'X' cost less, Disney would make more money because more people would buy it." If that were true, Disney would just reduce prices across the board and watch its profits soar!

In reality, price reductions result in a lower profit margin on each item sold. The question is whether you can recoup those lost sales via an increase in volume. That's particularly tough to do in the restaurant industry where seating capacity limits the number of diners you can service in a given day.

IMO, something like this would make the most sense if Disney intended on charging a higher rate for people buying a dining plan for less than their full length of stay. A few months ago Disney started giving people the option to ADD credits to their dining plan purchase. Turned out that they were charging about 1.5x the normal nightly rate for that privilege. I could see something similar happening here.

From Disney's perspective, allowing selective DDP purchases defeats the purpose of having a meal plan in the first place.

I totally agree.

MG

 

[MAGICFOR2]

maybe it would work like a la carte dining credits.... you get a discount if you purchase a package of 5,10,20, etc dining credits that could be used for table or QS by anyone on your party.

might not be too difficult to pull off froma WDW point of view... they just add your prepurchased credits to your KTTW card at the beginning of the trip.....


hmmm.....the possibilities......

Now that sounds like a great idea - like the vouchers we bought in 2004. We paid $11 a piece for paper vouchers which were for CS meals - an entree, a side, a dessert and a drink! We bought 10 of them and paid OOP for a couple of TS meals - we shared quite a few meals and it worked great! I would love to see that again.

 

[Tiger926]

Perhaps but it also opens the door to people leveraging the dining plan simply to save on a couple of meals.

Part of the premise of the dining plan is a hedge that buyers will:

1. NOT eat at the most expensive locations / most expensive meals / highest priced menu items every single day. In your example, dinner at Akerhaus obviously costs much more than at sit-down breakfast at Olivia's. But many DDP participants still choose to use credits for those lower priced locations and meals simply because they don't want to have beef tenderloin for dinner every night.

If Disney gives guests the ability to selectively purchase the dining plan for only certain nights, you better believe that most people will bend over backward to maximize the value of those credits. In other words, NOBODY is buying 2 nights worth of DDP credits (over a much longer trip) and using credits for breakfast at Olivia's.


2. Some credits will go unused simply because people tire of the experience. I'm not going to pretend that this is a huge number but certainly SOME percentage of the credits are unused. Could be just a TS or CS credit here and there or a few snack credits that were ignored. Whatever the circumstances--early flight, sick family member, poor planning, inability to get ADRs--it DOES happen.

And again, if Disney allows guests to selectively buy the plan for less than their total length of stay, this unused quantity will disappear.

In general, I tend to not agree with the idea that "if 'X' cost less, Disney would make more money because more people would buy it." If that were true, Disney would just reduce prices across the board and watch its profits soar!

In reality, price reductions result in a lower profit margin on each item sold. The question is whether you can recoup those lost sales via an increase in volume. That's particularly tough to do in the restaurant industry where seating capacity limits the number of diners you can service in a given day.

IMO, something like this would make the most sense if Disney intended on charging a higher rate for people buying a dining plan for less than their full length of stay. A few months ago Disney started giving people the option to ADD credits to their dining plan purchase. Turned out that they were charging about 1.5x the normal nightly rate for that privilege. I could see something similar happening here.

From Disney's perspective, allowing selective DDP purchases defeats the purpose of having a meal plan in the first place.

I totally agree as well! They are probablly going to charge a premium price per credit, so you could purchase what you want, but you will pay a premium price for having this flexibility.

It makes no sense to me, as explained by the OP of this thread. And, as I already mentioned, if it costs Disney money in maintenance for doing it that way (extra cards, more Concierge staff to handle it, etc.), then they are going to charge for that as well.

Disney is all about making money, so I totally agree that this particular plan is not going to look like what most people on this thread are hoping for. That totally defeats the purprose of the plan.

If it didn't, then Disney would have left the appetizers and tips as part of the Regular DP. If it were all about saving money for the guests, the DP would look different than it does now, IMHO.

Tiger

 

[Dean]

I think this would be awesome! I don't see it as Disney would be losing money, because now they would be making it more "enticing" to those who would have not purchased the dining plan in the first place.

Also, I realize this thread has started to take a different direction with comparing TIW to the DDP. I recently posted in another thread comparing the two from a cost only stand point, and this is what I came up with. Please keep in mind that the below example is not true for all restaurants and also who is in your dining "party" (i.e. how many adults versus kids).

------------------

For example, if you went to a character meal, lets say a dinner at Akershus. The cost of the dinner for a child 9 and under would normally be $22.35 (includes tax). The basic DP for a child 9 and under for one day is 11.99, which also includes a counter service meal and one snack for the day. If you include the price of the CS meal (approx $5.00) and one snack (approx. $3.00), then the savings by using the DP would be about $18. TIW would give you a savings of about $6 (20% off of $30).

Lets look at the same scenario, but for an adult. The cost of the dinner for an adult at Akershus would normally be $40.46 (includes tax). The basic DP for an adult for one day is 45.99, which also includes a counter service meal and one snack for the day. If you include the price of the CS meal (approx $14.00) and one snack (approx. $3.00), then the savings by using the DP would be about $11.47. TIW would give you a savings of about $11.49 (20% off of $57.46). Basically it's a wash.

So, unless I am missing something or made a bad calculation, then it would appear that if you have kids, the dining plan is really worth it. If you do not have kids, then it doesn't matter. But, as almost everyone has mentioned, TIW gives you the flexibility of eating what you want and with the DP, you are locked into eating what Disney gives you (does everyone really need to have a dessert with every meal, probably not, but then again..you are on vacation!!!!).

Also as what was just mentioned, don't forget the $75 you need to spend for TIW up front...

------------------------------

Evan

The reason for the current rules, and similar rules for past programs, is to make money overall. Get people to eat out more, eat more Disney meals, spend more when they do and spend more of their time on Disney property than otherwise. Past programs have offered some flexibility on the LOS theme but not nearly as much as postulated. For example, with the Food n Fun card you could drop the first or last day and if sometimes they would allow you to drop both.

It would be great for me if they did allow such flexibility as the OP suggests they were told but I can't imagine the program surviving more than a few months to a year with those changes. Thus IF anything similar becomes available, you better use it quick as it's essentially guaranteed to change for the worse OR to be eliminated altogether. Of course the program was really only designed to direct behavior and to go away once enough people were indoctrinated anyway.

I do think some flexibility is reasonable such as allowing one to drop the first and/or last day and to allow different programs for different groups even within one room. We'll see if they do anything. Past history suggests that every time such a program changes, it's for the worse, not the better. I'll reference both the Food n Fun card and it's successor as examples.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I am always jealous of those who get the TIW Card . We live in IL and do not get annual passes, so we can't get it. However we love the nicer resturants and especially the "signature" ones. Enjoy a bottle of wine or a few drinks at every meal and generally tip 20% unless the service was less than satisfactory. There are 4 of us 2 adults, 2 kids (Disney Adults) so even at the $75 yearly cost I beleive it would save money on possibly one longer trip and definately 2 per year. Oh well all I can do is dream.

We live in Minnesota, and we always buy annual passes and TIW cards. I'm not sure why you don't feel you can if you live in Illinois. If you only take one trip a year, just arrange it so they are 51 weeks apart and do both trips on one annual pass each. Getting two trips a year on an annual pass is easy, and the TIW card is good for 13 months, so you are covered there too. That's what we used to do before the DVC discount on the AP. Now that we get the discount, we tend to add trips. Before the discount we would buy APs and use them for two trips in the manner I described above, and then we would take a year or 11 months off from Disney trips. The following year we would buy APs again and start the process over. Now with the discount, we do something similar, but we travel at least 2 trips EVERY year. Then instead of renewing our APs, we let them expire and get new ones on our next planned trip so we don't have to waste the clock ticking on the tickets when we aren't traveling to WDW.

That above plan has saved us a lot on passes and dining over the years. I think the DVC AP discount is the BEST perk of all, and that includes the ability to do the TIW card.

Now, as for DDP and being able to have it for a fewer number of days...I might take advantage of that if I thought it was a good deal for some of the signatures we like to do, but I'll probably avoid the hassle and just stick to our TIW card. To me the DDP "credits" and how frequently they get messed up is a headache I don't like to have on vacation.

 

[TisBit]

If Disney gives guests the ability to selectively purchase the dining plan for only certain nights, you better believe that most people will bend over backward to maximize the value of those credits. In other words, NOBODY is buying 2 nights worth of DDP credits (over a much longer trip) and using credits for breakfast at Olivia's.

I completely agree that across that Disney would lose out if they made this available to ALL guests. But, if Disney has figured out that the % of DVC guests using the DP or even the on site restaurants has dropped or is very low, this could be a way to get those guests back into the restaurants, at least some.

Also, you scenario works with a loss of revenue, only if you figure that breakfast at Olivia's is significantly less costly for Disney to provide, then a meal somewhere else. Yes, DVC members would maximize their credits, but if it gets them back out into the restaurants, it is a win win for Disney.

 

[tjkraz]

I completely agree that across that Disney would lose out if they made this available to ALL guests. But, if Disney has figured out that the % of DVC guests using the DP or even the on site restaurants has dropped or is very low, this could be a way to get those guests back into the restaurants, at least some.

DVC members are a drop in the bucket compared to the full population of Disney park guests. If they were concerned about a decline in restaurant traffic, they wouldn't be raising the price of the basic DDP by 12% in 2011.

In fact, Disney stands to lose more than it would gain (IMO) by offering a selective purchase option even to DVC members. Yes they would gain some DDP buys from people who just want one or two days in a trip. But they would lose business from many others who would have otherwise just bitten the proverbial bullet and purchased the DDP for their entire length of stay.

Also, you scenario works with a loss of revenue, only if you figure that breakfast at Olivia's is significantly less costly for Disney to provide, then a meal somewhere else. Yes, DVC members would maximize their credits, but if it gets them back out into the restaurants, it is a win win for Disney.

Since the DDP credit price is fixed (currently $41.99 per adult), it goes without saying that Disney has much more to gain when a credit is used toward an $11 omelet rather than a $35 beef tenderloin or $31 mahi mahi.

Credits DO get used for omelets and other low-priced menu options when the LOS is mandated. But the ratios would tip dramatically toward the high-end establishments and menu items if guests were allowed to purchase only a minimal number of credits.

 

[jakenjess]

We live in Minnesota, and we always buy annual passes and TIW cards. I'm not sure why you don't feel you can if you live in Illinois. If you only take one trip a year, just arrange it so they are 51 weeks apart and do both trips on one annual pass each. Getting two trips a year on an annual pass is easy, and the TIW card is good for 13 months, so you are covered there too. That's what we used to do before the DVC discount on the AP. Now that we get the discount, we tend to add trips. Before the discount we would buy APs and use them for two trips in the manner I described above, and then we would take a year or 11 months off from Disney trips. The following year we would buy APs again and start the process over. Now with the discount, we do something similar, but we travel at least 2 trips EVERY year. Then instead of renewing our APs, we let them expire and get new ones on our next planned trip so we don't have to waste the clock ticking on the tickets when we aren't traveling to WDW.

That above plan has saved us a lot on passes and dining over the years. I think the DVC AP discount is the BEST perk of all, and that includes the ability to do the TIW card.

Now, as for DDP and being able to have it for a fewer number of days...I might take advantage of that if I thought it was a good deal for some of the signatures we like to do, but I'll probably avoid the hassle and just stick to our TIW card. To me the DDP "credits" and how frequently they get messed up is a headache I don't like to have on vacation.

I agree that the AP and TIW is the best deal. That's what we've done for the past few visits. The DDP just doesn't work out in our favor due to the fact the kids are now adult prices and we don't do many character meals, we don't get our money's worth.

However, now that we're in the high school years, the times we can visit are drastically limited, so I don't see the AP being a good option for the next few years. We're looking at Feb. vacation in 2011, and I'm going crazy trying to figure out which ticket media to go with. If we could do the DDP for just two or three nights, I think that would work well.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Math really isn't my thing, especially before 9 AM. But I just did some quick calculating and I think the TIW is better for us no matter what.

The example I tried was DxDDP, breakfast at Crystal Palace and dinner at Flying Fish. Since the plan is $79 per person, per day we would be out $237. Add the tip on top of that and we'd be looking at $287ish for 2 meals and 2 snacks for 3 people.

I think we'll pass. Even if DS14 could eat an adult appetizer, entree, and dessert (which he can't) we still come out ahead with TIW.

 

[dbs1228]

Okay I have an AP pass that I bought in May can I still purchase the TIW? We are traveling in Dec for 5 nights and again in Feb. We usually eat in the villas but in Dec we have a ressie for Le Collier for my DH's birthday, 4 adults. We do use CS and snacks in the parks with our 3 teen DD's. From this thread it looks like TIW will save on snacks, adult drinks at dinner and CS? Is there any restuarants that do not except the card? Last questions where do I purchase it? Thanks in advance.

 

[tjkraz]

Okay I have an AP pass that I bought in May can I still purchase the TIW? We are traveling in Dec for 5 nights and again in Feb. We usually eat in the villas but in Dec we have a ressie for Le Collier for my DH's birthday, 4 adults. We do use CS and snacks in the parks with our 3 teen DD's. From this thread it looks like TIW will save on snacks, adult drinks at dinner and CS? Is there any restuarants that do not except the card? Last questions where do I purchase it? Thanks in advance.

Yes you can still purchase TIW. You have to do it at Guest Relations--same spot you got your AP. The card will be valid for about 13 months following the purchase even if your AP expires during that period.

Generally speaking Counter Service locations are excluded with the main exception being those at Animal Kingdom. Snack carts are also excluded. Here is the current list:

http://allears.net/din/tiwlist.htm

The 20% discount is valid for up to 10 diners on the same check and it covers all food and alcohol purchases.

 

[SFD998]

I have had several interesting conversations with member services and had to share.

It seems that starting sometime in 2011, DVC members will be allowed to add the dining plan to any number of days of their vacation that they wish and in any combination. For example, for a seven night stay, you might decide to do the DxDDP for 2 nights and the regular DDP for 2 nights and no DP for the remainder. In addition, the CM said that you could opt for the dining plan for some members of your group and not others. I have now confirmed this with two CMs. They said they are changing over their whole system right now and things might be confused for a while. One CM told me to call back in January to add my partial DxDDP to my March trip, the other told me to call back in Oct.

This could be an amazing perk as one night on the DxDDP could equal two sit down dinners.

That would be great. One of the perks we found by hotel hopping was being able to book different levels of the dining plan. For those times that we stay put it would be nice to have this option.