New pamphlet handed out yesterday...3/3/2012

[bouncycat]

We went to Epcot after BB yesterday, and of course I was in my powerchair, and we were handed a pamphlet on rules for disabled guests. I have NEVER seen this before, and I read it briefly, got upset, and then handed it to my DH. It basically said to watch other people, and give THEM room around you, don't go too fast, and basic etiquette on driving a scooter. We go to the parks all the time, and have never seen them hand this out! We were immediately offended, and went to GS, and got a very unhelpful CM. Our point was, are they handing this out to the walkers as well? with everyone wanting equal treatment, why was I the only one in my family who got this? It was handed to me at the Ticket turnstiles. I was wondering also if they gave this to people who rented the scooters? My take on this was that if we listened to their advice, and stopped when people got too close, I'd never get to move, cause people are ALWAYS coming close!!! It was totally offending to me, and I'm not sure how many others. GS did nothing, and DH threw the pamphlet away. I wished he wouldn't have, cause now I want to know ALL that it says, and lodge a complaint. I understand the needs for people in chairs to be careful, I get that. I don't hit too many people, unless I can't help it due to them walking in front of me. Anyways, just ranting, I knew you guys would understand, and it was totally humiliating since the lady at the turnstiles told me since I was in a wheelchair, I needed the pamphlet.

 

[Heva2015]

I'm guessing there has been an accident and Disney are trying to cover their backs...true though that the majority of ecv and wheelchair issues are caused by walkers who don't watch where they are going. Big hugs...I would have felt exactly the same.

 

[Bete]

This is totally out of character for Disney and disabled guests.

I think I would ask when we will have our own private walkways to use.

I have had a few close calls, but fortunately no hits to date.

This looks like it may become an explosive topic in the future.

 

[SueM in MN]

You are first to report this and i would be outraged too.

My guess is that it is the result of complaints similar to ones that show up on the Theme Parks Board. People complain about those things from ECV users, without realizing that they (walkers) are cutting people in ECVs and wheelchairs off, going into the following distance that the ECV or wheelchair user has purposelessly left, etc, etc, etc.
When several thousand people view a thread like that, with people posting ' you should contact Disney, I have no doubt that many do complain, even if they have not ever had/seen the problem themselves. There is currently a lot of hostility against people with disabilities in general on the internet.

Handing out something like that ONLY to guests using mobility devices IS discriminatory - treating everyone one in a class as 'guilty' without any evidence that the person has done any of those things.

If they hand it out to people who have been seen doing something unsafe, that is one thing, but to hand it out 'just because' is not OK.

The only way it would be equal treatment under the ADA would be if they hand some 'courtesy' rules out to ALL guests, including the same information that seems to be in this pamphlet for people using stroller and information for walking guests about not getting too close to guests using mobility devices, not cutting them off, not getting into their safe following space, etc.

That said, I DO think they have a responsibility when someone rents an ECV at the park to make sure they have explained how it works and the person as no questions. I can't tell you how many times DH or I have hown someone where the speed control is. Most of them were driving along on Rabbit because they did not know there was a way to slow it down.
They also have a responsibility to stop people who are carrying kids on their laps or letting a child drive the rental ECV. I have seen children who appear to be no older than 3 sitting on someone's lap or standing between their legs and actually being the driver of the ECV.
ALMOST all of the accidents or near misses we have seen have been due to a child on the lap or driving or a walker cutting off the ECV/wheelchair user.

 

[SueM in MN]

This is totally out of character for Disney and disabled guests.

I think I would ask when we will have our own private walkways to use.

I have had a few close calls, but fortunately no hits to date.

This looks like it may become an explosive topic in the future.

The one place that does have a marked walkway for guests with mobility devices is the entrance/exit to The Land.
And who is in it most of the time?

Guests walking 2 and 3 abreast who often will not move out of the way for a guest using a mobility device to share the path.

 

[Michigan]

I hope they hand out keep your stroller off the person in front of you rules. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone hit me from the rear with their stroller.

I know I've told this before but one time a man walked right over my daughter in her wheelchair and a woman grabbed him by the shirt sleeve spun him around and said go tell her you are sorry. On leap day my youngest was waiting to get out of the exit at speedway and a CM talking to a group coming in backed up and fell over my daughter. He felt so bad we laughed and told it it was ok. The point is not every wheelchair walking person incident is the person in the chairs fault.

 

[Mama Who]

It sounds like a very bad implementation of an idea that has a shred of merit at its core but got taken WAY too far.

I think every scooter rental should come with some basic reminders on operation and etiquette. If one is renting a scooter, one is probably not a daily user and could benefit from the information/reminder. Scooters can be dangerous when improperly used by new operators.

I see NO reason these things should be applied to a wheelchair and certainly it is offensive and inappropriate to tell you you NEED a pamphlet telling you how to move in your standard mode of transport. I imagine this will not go on for very long and someone will find themselves in hot water or out of a job entirely for this debacle. NOT okay, and I am so sorry you were treated that way.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

There may have been someone hurt in the restrooms too. I am not knocking anyone by any means so please do not take offense to this, but there was an one time in the bathroom in the MK, between Frontier Land and Adventure Land (near Swiss Family Robinson area) that a woman in a power scooter came flying in (yes flying super fast) and a child was starting to walk out where the hall area is (stalls down there) had the child come out a little sooner, this woman would have run her over. she never slowed down. She headed right to the handicap stall at the other end of the restroom on the left. She could care less about anyone in her way. This woman was in the wrong. I don't care how much you have to use the potty, you don't go into the area that fast not knowing who will be coming out or in your way. She never even said excuse me or move... nothing.. just bee-lined to that end.
Most who are in the scooters do not do this. In fact, I had never seen anyone like her before nor have I yet. Most are watching out for others... this one wasn't. All it takes is just one major injury from an uncaring guest, and yes, it will feel as if they are targeting all scooter users. They aren't, but they don't know who will watch out and who won't.. so they may have to "legally" give out warnings now. I wonder if they are giving them out to manual wheelchairs.. I would think not, as they aren't the powerful machines the scooters are. When a motor is involved, there are more chances of personal injury... what I think is what Disney is trying to avoid..

Weigh a scooter, weigh a wheelchair and weigh a stroller. Which one is going to do more harm to a small child if they are run over by it.. it takes on bad apple to spoil the bunch and that may be what happened.

 

[Chickenlady]

I also received this handout (on Friday, I believe). I was taken aback and after reading through it I just threw it away. I wondered if I somehow "looked" like the type that would drive like a crazy person....or maybe they knew I was the type that wouldn't sit quietly by while everyone walked in front of me. I'd been there all week and was very tired of being ignored and walked in front of in lines.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I will be in at work at the AK Gate on Wednesday and will find out about it. I will also voice comments to management based on the reactions here.

 

[SueM in MN]

I will be in at work at the AK Gate on Wednesday and will find out about it. I will also voice comments to management based on the reactions here.

Thank you.

 

[disney david]

Who hands you this pamphlet was it a bus driver cm and the turn style a cm walking around or a manager. Did it have Disney in it was it official looking or was this a cm that made them and handed them Out in their own did you go to guest device to complain because Disney dose not read these boards the best way to let them know they did wrong or you don't like it is to go ti guest services and complain. Then write them to express how mad you are so more people at Disney knows.

 

[SueM in MN]

Who hands you this pamphlet was it a bus driver cm and the turn style a cm walking around or a manager. Did it have Disney in it was it official looking or was this a cm that made them and handed them Out in their own did you go to guest device to complain because Disney dose not read these boards the best way to let them know they did wrong or you don't like it is to go ti guest services and complain. Then write them to express how mad you are so more people at Disney knows.

She indicated it was a CM at the turnstiles who handed it to her.

She said they did go to Guest Services to complain,

She also said that she wanted to make a complaint and wished they had not thrown the pamphlet away because she does not have it for making her complaints.

We went to Epcot after BB yesterday, and of course I was in my powerchair, and we were handed a pamphlet on rules for disabled guests. I have NEVER seen this before, and I read it briefly, got upset, and then handed it to my DH. It basically said to watch other people, and give THEM room around you, don't go too fast, and basic etiquette on driving a scooter. We go to the parks all the time, and have never seen them hand this out! We were immediately offended, and went to GS, and got a very unhelpful CM. Our point was, are they handing this out to the walkers as well? with everyone wanting equal treatment, why was I the only one in my family who got this? It was handed to me at the Ticket turnstiles. I was wondering also if they gave this to people who rented the scooters? My take on this was that if we listened to their advice, and stopped when people got too close, I'd never get to move, cause people are ALWAYS coming close!!! It was totally offending to me, and I'm not sure how many others. GS did nothing, and DH threw the pamphlet away. I wished he wouldn't have, cause now I want to know ALL that it says, and lodge a complaint. I understand the needs for people in chairs to be careful, I get that. I don't hit too many people, unless I can't help it due to them walking in front of me. Anyways, just ranting, I knew you guys would understand, and it was totally humiliating since the lady at the turnstiles told me since I was in a wheelchair, I needed the pamphlet.

 

[bouncycat]

I'm guessing there has been an accident and Disney are trying to cover their backs...true though that the majority of ecv and wheelchair issues are caused by walkers who don't watch where they are going. Big hugs...I would have felt exactly the same.

That's what we were thinking as well...but unfortunately there wasn't any others around me coming in at the time we were that was also in a chair. DH was just as mad as I was, and on the way to GS, a little girl got free of her mom's hand, and ran right towards me. I was able to stop in time, but as the pamphlet said to keep other guests at a distance, in that situation we couldn't. We did tell GS that as well, the lady there didn't seem to understand what we were saying.

This is totally out of character for Disney and disabled guests.

I think I would ask when we will have our own private walkways to use.

I have had a few close calls, but fortunately no hits to date.

This looks like it may become an explosive topic in the future.

Yea no kidding huh? I thought it was out of character as well. I've hit a small handful of people, most of them being either the tour groups, or latests ones have been the cheerleaders. They look down right at me, and then walk right in front of me. Drives me bonkers when people do that!!!

You are first to report this and i would be outraged too.

My guess is that it is the result of complaints similar to ones that show up on the Theme Parks Board. People complain about those things from ECV users, without realizing that they (walkers) are cutting people in ECVs and wheelchairs off, going into the following distance that the ECV or wheelchair user has purposelessly left, etc, etc, etc.
When several thousand people view a thread like that, with people posting ' you should contact Disney, I have no doubt that many do complain, even if they have not ever had/seen the problem themselves. There is currently a lot of hostility against people with disabilities in general on the internet.

Handing out something like that ONLY to guests using mobility devices IS discriminatory - treating everyone one in a class as 'guilty' without any evidence that the person has done any of those things.

If they hand it out to people who have been seen doing something unsafe, that is one thing, but to hand it out 'just because' is not OK.

The only way it would be equal treatment under the ADA would be if they hand some 'courtesy' rules out to ALL guests, including the same information that seems to be in this pamphlet for people using stroller and information for walking guests about not getting too close to guests using mobility devices, not cutting them off, not getting into their safe following space, etc.

That said, I DO think they have a responsibility when someone rents an ECV at the park to make sure they have explained how it works and the person as no questions. I can't tell you how many times DH or I have hown someone where the speed control is. Most of them were driving along on Rabbit because they did not know there was a way to slow it down.
They also have a responsibility to stop people who are carrying kids on their laps or letting a child drive the rental ECV. I have seen children who appear to be no older than 3 sitting on someone's lap or standing between their legs and actually being the driver of the ECV.
ALMOST all of the accidents or near misses we have seen have been due to a child on the lap or driving or a walker cutting off the ECV/wheelchair user.

I agree Sue. see alot of that going on since we're there so much. I was surprised to get a person at GS that wasn't helpful at all. We didn't even think she understood what we were trying to say. I do believe I'm gonna write a letter, and let them know about this. It was out of line for them, and totally uncharacteristic as well. I do know that a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us, but like you said, it was like I was guilty of doing these things in their eyes, without even doing so!! I'm always SUPER careful of when I'm driving, and if people wanted to complain, it's easy to describe my chair!! it's painted orange with black stripes LOL

The one place that does have a marked walkway for guests with mobility devices is the entrance/exit to The Land.
And who is in it most of the time?

Guests walking 2 and 3 abreast who often will not move out of the way for a guest using a mobility device to share the path.

saw that last night as well.

I hope they hand out keep your stroller off the person in front of you rules. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone hit me from the rear with their stroller.

I know I've told this before but one time a man walked right over my daughter in her wheelchair and a woman grabbed him by the shirt sleeve spun him around and said go tell her you are sorry. On leap day my youngest was waiting to get out of the exit at speedway and a CM talking to a group coming in backed up and fell over my daughter. He felt so bad we laughed and told it it was ok. The point is not every wheelchair walking person incident is the person in the chairs fault.

Exactly!!! Most people are nice if they cut me off or almost fall on me, when people look right at me, and then walk right in front of me...that's what makes me crazy!!!

It sounds like a very bad implementation of an idea that has a shred of merit at its core but got taken WAY too far.

I think every scooter rental should come with some basic reminders on operation and etiquette. If one is renting a scooter, one is probably not a daily user and could benefit from the information/reminder. Scooters can be dangerous when improperly used by new operators.

I see NO reason these things should be applied to a wheelchair and certainly it is offensive and inappropriate to tell you you NEED a pamphlet telling you how to move in your standard mode of transport. I imagine this will not go on for very long and someone will find themselves in hot water or out of a job entirely for this debacle. NOT okay, and I am so sorry you were treated that way.

Thanks!!!

There may have been someone hurt in the restrooms too. I am not knocking anyone by any means so please do not take offense to this, but there was an one time in the bathroom in the MK, between Frontier Land and Adventure Land (near Swiss Family Robinson area) that a woman in a power scooter came flying in (yes flying super fast) and a child was starting to walk out where the hall area is (stalls down there) had the child come out a little sooner, this woman would have run her over. she never slowed down. She headed right to the handicap stall at the other end of the restroom on the left. She could care less about anyone in her way. This woman was in the wrong. I don't care how much you have to use the potty, you don't go into the area that fast not knowing who will be coming out or in your way. She never even said excuse me or move... nothing.. just bee-lined to that end.
Most who are in the scooters do not do this. In fact, I had never seen anyone like her before nor have I yet. Most are watching out for others... this one wasn't. All it takes is just one major injury from an uncaring guest, and yes, it will feel as if they are targeting all scooter users. They aren't, but they don't know who will watch out and who won't.. so they may have to "legally" give out warnings now. I wonder if they are giving them out to manual wheelchairs.. I would think not, as they aren't the powerful machines the scooters are. When a motor is involved, there are more chances of personal injury... what I think is what Disney is trying to avoid..

Weigh a scooter, weigh a wheelchair and weigh a stroller. Which one is going to do more harm to a small child if they are run over by it.. it takes on bad apple to spoil the bunch and that may be what happened.

There are some bad drivers out there, and the mess in the bathrooms is why I don't take my chair in with me anymore. It's just been too crazy in there!! So I park it outside and walk in.

I also received this handout (on Friday, I believe). I was taken aback and after reading through it I just threw it away. I wondered if I somehow "looked" like the type that would drive like a crazy person....or maybe they knew I was the type that wouldn't sit quietly by while everyone walked in front of me. I'd been there all week and was very tired of being ignored and walked in front of in lines.

Kinda glad we aren't the only ones that felt that way as well!!

I will be in at work at the AK Gate on Wednesday and will find out about it. I will also voice comments to management based on the reactions here.

Thanks CF!!! Let us know how it turns out!!

Who hands you this pamphlet was it a bus driver cm and the turn style a cm walking around or a manager. Did it have Disney in it was it official looking or was this a cm that made them and handed them Out in their own did you go to guest device to complain because Disney dose not read these boards the best way to let them know they did wrong or you don't like it is to go ti guest services and complain. Then write them to express how mad you are so more people at Disney knows.

It was a turnstile CM, and it was printed, kinda like the times guide for the parks, and had bunch of rules of using an ECV on it. I am gonna have my DH help me with a letter to them, cause a PP was right, it's descrimination!! My DH and DS went thru different turnstiles, and didn't get this handout. The lady told me because I was in a chair, I needed to get it.

 

[disney david]

That's what we were thinking as well...but unfortunately there wasn't any others around me coming in at the time we were that was also in a chair. DH was just as mad as I was, and on the way to GS, a little girl got free of her mom's hand, and ran right towards me. I was able to stop in time, but as the pamphlet said to keep other guests at a distance, in that situation we couldn't. We did tell GS that as well, the lady there didn't seem to understand what we were saying.



Yea no kidding huh? I thought it was out of character as well. I've hit a small handful of people, most of them being either the tour groups, or latests ones have been the cheerleaders. They look down right at me, and then walk right in front of me. Drives me bonkers when people do that!!!



I agree Sue. see alot of that going on since we're there so much. I was surprised to get a person at GS that wasn't helpful at all. We didn't even think she understood what we were trying to say. I do believe I'm gonna write a letter, and let them know about this. It was out of line for them, and totally uncharacteristic as well. I do know that a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us, but like you said, it was like I was guilty of doing these things in their eyes, without even doing so!! I'm always SUPER careful of when I'm driving, and if people wanted to complain, it's easy to describe my chair!! it's painted orange with black stripes LOL



saw that last night as well.



Exactly!!! Most people are nice if they cut me off or almost fall on me, when people look right at me, and then walk right in front of me...that's what makes me crazy!!!




Thanks!!!



There are some bad drivers out there, and the mess in the bathrooms is why I don't take my chair in with me anymore. It's just been too crazy in there!! So I park it outside and walk in.



Kinda glad we aren't the only ones that felt that way as well!!



Thanks CF!!! Let us know how it turns out!!



It was a turnstile CM, and it was printed, kinda like the times guide for the parks, and had bunch of rules of using an ECV on it. I am gonna have my DH help me with a letter to them, cause a PP was right, it's descrimination!! My DH and DS went thru different turnstiles, and didn't get this handout. The lady told me because I was in a chair, I needed to get it.

Sorry I missed that in your post they should not be handing out them and let's hope they stop and corect what they be doing lately and make things right. If they want to hand out pamphlets then they shoul give every one one with all the rules of Disney.

 

[disney david]

She indicated it was a CM at the turnstiles who handed it to her.

She said they did go to Guest Services to complain,

She also said that she wanted to make a complaint and wished they had not thrown the pamphlet away because she does not have it for making her complaints.

Thanks sue I was reading this in costco and missed that part thought may be it was a cm doing this on their own couldn't believe Disney would even think about Handing them out Sorry sue and op.

 

[I Love Pluto]

I don't think I'll be offended when they hand me the pamphlet - as long as they are handing them to everyone else who is on an ECV or power chair.

I was the victim of an ECV accident at Pop. A lady smashed into my ankle at the drink counter. I was using a walker, making it obvious to others to please be careful. She ran her ECV directly into my ankle.

The woman popped off of her ECV - filled six cups with soda & juice - carried them to her family - came back for the ECV she did NOT need - ignored me the entire time and never apologized. We spoke different languages, but "I'm sorry" isn't hard.

I didn't report this at the time because I didn't want to make a fuss over nothing. FIVE surgeries later, two of them fusions, I am able to use my ankle somewhat. I can't believe what I went through because someone was careless on an ECV.

My guess is something like this might have happened. A word of caution never hurt anyone.

And - just for the record - I now use an ECV due to an advanced spinal disease. I don't mind being handed the pamphlet.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Thanks sue I was reading this in costco and missed that part thought may be it was a cm doing this on their own couldn't believe Disney would even think about Handing them out Sorry sue and op.

reading the boards while in Costco I cannot do that, I cannot walk, and read.. which is another reason why I don't bother with texting for my phone.. I know, off topic.. I just thought it was funny..

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I don't think I'll be offended when they hand me the pamphlet - as long as they are handing them to everyone else who is on an ECV or power chair.

I was the victim of an ECV accident at Pop. A lady smashed into my ankle at the drink counter. I was using a walker, making it obvious to others to please be careful. She ran her ECV directly into my ankle.

The woman popped off of her ECV - filled six cups with soda & juice - carried them to her family - came back for the ECV she did NOT need - ignored me the entire time and never apologized. We spoke different languages, but "I'm sorry" isn't hard.

I didn't report this at the time because I didn't want to make a fuss over nothing. FIVE surgeries later, two of them fusions, I am able to use my ankle somewhat. I can't believe what I went through because someone was careless on an ECV.

My guess is something like this might have happened. A word of caution never hurt anyone.

And - just for the record - I now use an ECV due to an advanced spinal disease. I don't mind being handed the pamphlet.

wow... and you are so correct, I'm sorry has many ways to be expressed in other languages. Can you imagine if the scooter hit a small child how much damage it can do to them... I do think this is the only reason Disney is handing them out. As I said, one bad apple can spoil the bunch.. and that is more than likely what happened.

I do wonder if they are handing them out to manual chairs though.. I know they can do damage, but only when on purpose per say (when they ram you hard) I was hit by one of them.. on purpose. The woman wanted me out of her way when watching a show at the Castle. She didn't want to go to the area where the wheelchairs were, and felt that everyone in front of her should move so she can go up front. We were there way before her so she started pushing her way thru with her chair and got me in the ankle. She actually bullied her way up with her chair, and when she saw I wasn't moving, she started to ram me really hard in the back of the ankle over and over again. I called a CM over and he removed her. Her adult son was embarrassed too.. he kept telling her to stop. Others moved the first time she hit them. I am sorry, I wasn't moving. You don't bully your way up like that, not when there is an area for you and you don't want to go there. If you want the front area, you wait like everyone else does.. or you don't get it. I know this sounds cruel but she had an alternative and didn't want that.

I am sorry that you must now use a scooter due to your spine, but glad that you can see why and how the electric scooters can be a danger in some hands. It is sad that Disney must do this, but to protect everyone involved (as well as their pockets) they may have to legally have something in writing for the guests using these. Maybe it takes the liability off of them and onto the "user" if someone is hurt, sort of like the "Beware of Dog" sign.. if you have it you are somewhat protected, without it..you are up the creek if your dog bites someone on your property!

 

[disney david]

reading the boards while in Costco I cannot do that, I cannot walk, and read.. which is another reason why I don't bother with texting for my phone.. I know, off topic.. I just thought it was funny..

i am suprised they have not put a computer in shopping carts yet because if they are out of something you have a computer right their to order it.