New "Membership Options" (formerly AP) Discussion Thread

[Epicnemesis]

I don’t think it’ll be a fixed amount of days. There is a reason they built out the flex pass. I think they stick with that system and that without Covid we would have transitioned to that model more gradually. Covid was just their excuse to pull the bandaid off quickly.

I maintain that you will see a pass that needs advanced booking every day it’s valid, a pass that you need reservations for busy days, and a pass that you are free to go whenever.

I’m really hoping that if I’m right, the flex pass stays relatively unchanged. It’s perfect for us assuming availability of reservations doesn’t become a barrier.

 

[kristensideaoffun]

I agree, way too complicated. People have a hard time with fast pass and even just buying day tickets online.

I do think they’ll go to some sort of reservation system, but I’m fine with that as long as you can reserve a few days at a time.

I agree. I think we will see something like different levels of the Flex pass. Disney was able to open and close the “attendance tap”, at least with Flex pass holders, by limiting the number of reservations on some days and by adding more availability when attendance was unexpectedly low. They already have that system in place and got pretty much a full year of data for how well it worked out. I doubt they are will be rewriting the book with something as confusing as a point system when they already have a tried reservation system in place.

 

[Evita_W]

I think the structure will be something like:

• Tier 1
  • No Discounts or other special perks
  • Weekends, major holiday periods (a week to two weeks at a time, not per holiday) and summer Blocked Out completely with no option for blackout date tickets
  • Reservations required for all other days and can be made no more than 2 weeks in advance
  • Valid for only one park per day
• Tier 2
  • Weekend days become available
  • Option to add park hopping on a per day basis for a cost of $40 per day
• Tier 3
  • Discounts and other perks become available, but discounts are 10% on food and merchandise unless there are special promotions
  • All dates, except Spring Break, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Thanksgiving and Christmas through New Years become available.
    • Blackout tickets available for 30% of the cost of a one day date based ticket
  • Many weekdays do not require reservations
  • Reservations at 30 days in advance
  • Park Hopping can be added for an additional per day cost or for a flat rate
• Tier 4
  • Higher discounts of 20% on food and merchandise and more special perks
  • Early entry on select days
  • Park Hopping included
  • Maxpass Included
  • No blackout dates
  • Reservation are still at 30 days, but you can make 4 at a time, Tiers 1-3 are limited to two at a time
• Tier 5
  • Ability to add other Disney parks (except Tokyo since it isn't owned by Disney) to pass
  • Reservations only required at "home resort"

In all cases the plans would be monthly only, with increasing discounts on the monthly rate if you sign a contract for:

• 3 Months - 5% off normal monthly rate
• 6 Months - 10% off normal monthly rate
• 12 Months - 20% off normal monthly rate
• 24 Months - 30% off normal monthly rate

The initial price is locked in for the length of the contract, after your contract expires, you would then get whatever discount you had off the then current monthly rate. In other words say you signed up for the 24 month contract, after the contract expires you would get 30% off whatever the current monthly rate is each month, meaning it can change after the initial contract. Additionally, if you terminate the contract early, there would be an early termination fee equal to the remaining number of payments in your contract, but Disney could be willing to wave that fee under certain extenuating circumstances.

And you would have the ability to pause your membership for up to a certain amount of time (say 90 days at a time), if you have a contract that paused time will be added to the length of the contract and again, exceptions could be made to the length of time on a case by case basis.

Obviously my Tier 5 option would also indicate Disney changes the AP system at all parks.

Family memberships could receive an additional discount.

An additional option would be the ability to add a second guest (at the same price) named as guest. They would only be able to enter when accompanied by the primary person on the card.

I am not saying this would be my preferred method and the names of the tiers would be different I am sure, but this would be an option.

 

[Malcon10t]

I think there will be one "premium" option that does not require reservations and has no limits on the number of visits monthly.

I think it will be quite a while before we get to the "No reservations required" level. So I doubt this will be offered for at least 2-3 years.

oh I think they’ll get access to the park, just not through their future AP. Like, if they’re blacked out or did not get a reservation, a stay at DLH will not remediate that.

But at least they would not be subject to a future ticketing reservation system. That would be the “perk.”

I think most hotel guests will be offered the perk of entry on their days at the hotel.

 

[starry_solo]

It would be nice to get either a 10-day pass to be used in a year, or a non-expiring 10-day ticket, like WDW had.

 

[gelatoni fan]

Just want to say, here are the lists of memberships that exist or have existed in other resorts that aren't an annual pass:
1. Hong Kong's Magic Access Program - basically an annual pass except you can also buy 2 year passes
2. Shanghai's seasonal (3 month) and 1/2 year passes
3. WDW's pass for the Mickey's Not so Scary
4. Funderful Disney for Tokyo that gives discounted tickets, special perks, free gifts, etc. - This is more like a super upgraded D23 that's park oriented

Here's the groups of customers I think the annual pass appeals to that Disney will try to separate:
1. People who go frequently but primarily just care about access to their favorite rides, shows or other standard park experiences on a regular basis. Such people may use the park as a place to hang out and this is the group that Disney wants to limit if they don't also fall into one of the other categories.
2. People who will visit the park for special events and activities. Think Food & Wine, new ride openings, Disneyland's Anniversary, etc. Since this group generates revenue by buying seasonal food/merch, it'll be a problem if Disney didn't allow them access on important days or blocked them out for entire seasons.
3. People who won't be willing to pay ticket prices but are willing to visit a few extra times a year to make an Annual Pass worth it such as those from out of town. Disney wants to keep an annual pass around for these people and wants a reasonable reservation system that they can work with.
4. People who buy a pass and forget about it or only do it for the bragging rights, sometimes forcing themselves to visit a few extra times to make the pass "worth it". Disney likes these people too.
5. Frequent spenders such as those who go to the parks to specifically have Disney themed food or regularly buy limited edition pins. A major risk of making the new membership program too restrictive is losing this profitable group of people.

The way I see it, a flex pass system seems like it would make the most sense for Disney because a shorter pass could price out a lot of the groups that make money. If they wanted to be fancy, they could also create a points system like what DVC has but I think that's unlikely.

An interesting thing to note is that the USD is falling against foreign currencies so there may be a big opportunity to shift focus to foreign guests in group 3 and especially Japanese guests who fall into group 2. Japanese spend way more on food and merchandise than the average US guest, are far more likely to stay at Disney hotels, and already make up a sizable portion of Hong Kong memberships and Aulani DVC.

 

[DLgal]

I think the structure will be something like:

• Tier 1
  • No Discounts or other special perks
  • Weekends, major holiday periods (a week to two weeks at a time, not per holiday) and summer Blocked Out completely with no option for blackout date tickets
  • Reservations required for all other days and can be made no more than 2 weeks in advance
  • Valid for only one park per day
• Tier 2
  • Weekend days become available
  • Option to add park hopping on a per day basis for a cost of $40 per day
• Tier 3
  • Discounts and other perks become available, but discounts are 10% on food and merchandise unless there are special promotions
  • All dates, except Spring Break, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Thanksgiving and Christmas through New Years become available.
    • Blackout tickets available for 30% of the cost of a one day date based ticket
  • Many weekdays do not require reservations
  • Reservations at 30 days in advance
  • Park Hopping can be added for an additional per day cost or for a flat rate
• Tier 4
  • Higher discounts of 20% on food and merchandise and more special perks
  • Early entry on select days
  • Park Hopping included
  • Maxpass Included
  • No blackout dates
  • Reservation are still at 30 days, but you can make 4 at a time, Tiers 1-3 are limited to two at a time
• Tier 5
  • Ability to add other Disney parks (except Tokyo since it isn't owned by Disney) to pass
  • Reservations only required at "home resort"

In all cases the plans would be monthly only, with increasing discounts on the monthly rate if you sign a contract for:

• 3 Months - 5% off normal monthly rate
• 6 Months - 10% off normal monthly rate
• 12 Months - 20% off normal monthly rate
• 24 Months - 30% off normal monthly rate

The initial price is locked in for the length of the contract, after your contract expires, you would then get whatever discount you had off the then current monthly rate. In other words say you signed up for the 24 month contract, after the contract expires you would get 30% off whatever the current monthly rate is each month, meaning it can change after the initial contract. Additionally, if you terminate the contract early, there would be an early termination fee equal to the remaining number of payments in your contract, but Disney could be willing to wave that fee under certain extenuating circumstances.

And you would have the ability to pause your membership for up to a certain amount of time (say 90 days at a time), if you have a contract that paused time will be added to the length of the contract and again, exceptions could be made to the length of time on a case by case basis.

Obviously my Tier 5 option would also indicate Disney changes the AP system at all parks.

Family memberships could receive an additional discount.

An additional option would be the ability to add a second guest (at the same price) named as guest. They would only be able to enter when accompanied by the primary person on the card.

I am not saying this would be my preferred method and the names of the tiers would be different I am sure, but this would be an option.

Well thought out. All of this sounds very plausible.

 

[Erin M]

This is a super fuzzy memory, and maybe I'm making it up, but I swear there was a time when the DL IT department accidentally showed us some "gold" and "silver" levels on the flex passes and the thought then was it was a possible change to the structure of how they would work. Did I make that up? I don't have much speculation at this point, but if they already had that "gold" level in the works back then...

 

[Erin M]

I didn't make it up! I found this from 10/2019! And maybe it has nothing to do with what we're looking at today because of course, no one could have known that a pandemic would shut it all down in 2020, but it's interesting.

Flex Gold Pass Discussion

 

[Iceman93]

I find it hilarious that anyone thinks a points system would be too complicated. While it may be complicated on the Disney end, maximizing revenue and valuing points accordingly, it's really pretty simple on the guest end. I suppose if you can't figure out DVC points, banking, use years, etc. then you might think a parks points system would also be "too complicated". But in reality it's simpler than the system Disney had in place before the pandemic with dynamic pricing, a whole bunch of AP tiers, flex passes, etc. not to mention virtual boarding groups for GE and then ROTR, FastPass, FastPass+, PhotoPass, various levels of AP, DVC, credit card, and D23 discounts at some venues but not others, Extra Magic Hours, Magic Mornings, and then at WDW MagicBands and Tables in Wonderland, plus Disney employee Main Entrance Passes (with their ever-increasing complexity of blackout dates around the globe).

Imagine streamlining all that with a points system that makes it clear what you get for what you pay.

 

[gelatoni fan]

I find it hilarious that anyone thinks a points system would be too complicated. While it may be complicated on the Disney end, maximizing revenue and valuing points accordingly, it's really pretty simple on the guest end. I suppose if you can't figure out DVC points, banking, use years, etc. then you might think a parks points system would also be "too complicated". But in reality it's simpler than the system Disney had in place before the pandemic with dynamic pricing, a whole bunch of AP tiers, flex passes, etc. not to mention virtual boarding groups for GE and then ROTR, FastPass, FastPass+, PhotoPass, various levels of AP, DVC, credit card, and D23 discounts at some venues but not others, Extra Magic Hours, Magic Mornings, and then at WDW MagicBands and Tables in Wonderland, plus Disney employee Main Entrance Passes (with their ever-increasing complexity of blackout dates around the globe).

Imagine streamlining all that with a points system that makes it clear what you get for what you pay.

A points system doesn't streamline all of that. It's just an alternate way of handling reservations to a Flex Pass. Disney would still have to figure out how Fastpass, discounts and photopass offerings work. Some tiers of Shanghai's Annual Pass does come with coupons to enter the park early but at Disneyland that would cannibalize hotels. Hong Kong's Magic Access program has a system where you can earn coupons for merchandise and dining based on spending which is possibly something that Disneyland may implement. Hong Kong and Shanghai also have paid fastpasses sold as Premier Access. Most annual passholders primarily care about how they will get access to the parks with all the other benefits being secondary. The question to answer is if access is going to be unlimited, a Flex Pass like system, a points based system, a coupon based system (ex. 10 entrances that expire in one year from purchase), or something else? The other extras are there to encourage members to spend more than they would otherwise or convince people on the fence to actually make the purchase.

 

[theluckyrabbit]

This is a super fuzzy memory, and maybe I'm making it up, but I swear there was a time when the DL IT department accidentally showed us some "gold" and "silver" levels on the flex passes and the thought then was it was a possible change to the structure of how they would work. Did I make that up? I don't have much speculation at this point, but if they already had that "gold" level in the works back then...

Good to see you back posting! Hope that you and your family are well and keeping safe.

 

[montreid]

I’m of the option that, whatever else the membership program has, there will always be a top tier option that includes: unlimited visits, no reservation, parking, & MaxPass. The cost may be high, but there are people who are willing to pay for that convenience.

Club33

 

[gelatoni fan]

To add on, one thing I haven't seen mentioned much is changing from an annual pass to a loyalty program more akin to what you see for hotels and airlines. For a certain amount of spending or trips, you'd earn points which can discount or pay for your next trip. At many different parks there have been magic milestones where if you entered the park a certain number of times or spent a certain amount of money, you'd get goodies like a free pin. Instead of doing merchandise, the reward could be park access.

A pure loyalty program would reward points for straight spending and after a certain amount of points, you can redeem for park tickets, hotel stays, etc. Alternatively, they could have a mixed annual pass and loyalty program where membership gives access to the parks subject to a lot of blockout days but you can earn access on blockout days by making purchases. For example, you'd be allowed in to the park if you have a pass and stay at a hotel or you could earn a blockout day ticket by making five purchases of at least $10 each. This means that the members who are at the parks on the busy days are those who have spent money in addition to the purchase price of their membership.

 

[upritbass]

A pure loyalty program would reward points for straight spending and after a certain amount of points, you can redeem for park tickets, hotel stays, etc.

Otherwise known as Disney Dollars...

 

[gelatoni fan]

Otherwise known as Disney Dollars...

If they go with a loyalty program route, it would absolutely make sense to merge points earned from Disneyland spending with Disney Rewards Dollars currently earned through the Chase Visa. But beyond just that, they could also ramp up the magic milestones program or add levels and perks like Castaway Club. If you had to earn your access to the bar at California Adventure by repeated spending in a loyalty program, it can feel a lot more special to visit there than if it was just a poorly publicized perk tacked on to an annual pass that a million people had access to.

 

[Epicnemesis]

AP sales alone are probably close to 1billion in revenue. There is no way Disney is going to turn their back on that huge chunk of their operating revenue. They aren’t changing that to a reward program. They want you buying annual passes. They just want more control over the flow of pass holders into the park.

They know that it’s a lot easier to get locals to buy a $500 annual pass than it is to get them in the park more than once at 150 per day.

Annual Passes isn’t some form of altruism from Disney, it’s a major piece of Disneyland’s profitability. They NEED a program that gets people in the park throughout the year.

 

[taaren]

I would love to see a 10 entry days per year membership pass. The day rate makes a short trip costly and most people I travel with do not need/want more then 3 days at DL so I can't take advantage of a 5 day ticket. Haha.

I would love to travel as a second set of hands for my sister's family to help wrangle little kids, make a couples trip in May, visit for a Halloween party, and then return for short trip at Christmas. Just popping in when airfare or time off work makes it feasible and I have enough notice to get a park reservation.

I wonder if they will do # of days memberships. Let's say 10, 20, 50 and possibly a 100. I wonder how locals would feel about something like that.

I would love to see this as well (my group was slated to get 12 days out of our FlexPass, 1 weekend every other month). But I think a more realistic would be tiered FlexPasses, where you get 2-4 reservations per month based off of what level you buy. Or perhaps x number of "Good to Go days" and x number of "Premium days" per month and increase by pricing level. This would go a long ways with the almost-local bucket (those of us from NorCal/Az/Or). They could also do it by park, such as 1 premium day each at DL and CA, but 5 GTG days of each, then you reserve each park separately and if you want to hop you use your 1 premium day for each at both parks.

 

[AquaDame]

AP sales alone are probably close to 1billion in revenue. There is no way Disney is going to turn their back on that huge chunk of their operating revenue. They aren’t changing that to a reward program. They want you buying annual passes. They just want more control over the flow of pass holders into the park.

They know that it’s a lot easier to get locals to buy a $500 annual pass than it is to get them in the park more than once at 150 per day.

Annual Passes isn’t some form of altruism from Disney, it’s a major piece of Disneyland’s profitability. They NEED a program that gets people in the park throughout the year.

They could also be using the time between cancelling it and unveiling to see just how MUCH they need it... starting it very slow and limited at the highest priced tiers and slowly expanding it from there.

 

[Evita_W]

They could also be using the time between cancelling it and unveiling to see just how MUCH they need it... starting it very slow and limited at the highest priced tiers and slowly expanding it from there.

True, as well as how large of crowds people will accept long term. I think even once they are allowed to return to precious max capacity people won't accept being shoulder to shoulder any more. I can't see them ever being able to get back to over about 75% of what their capacity was before because it won't be socially acceptable, not because of rules.

This will affect whatever membership program they come up with.