New Issue with the buses as well as an old one

[disney david]

Op was this an old bus with a lift or the new bus with a ramp I think if it the lift one that why it a safety issue. Rather then being one about tieing you I now in the past they had trouble with guest on the old bus with bags getting hurt. They are replacing those old buses with the new low floor ones so it might not be a problem for much longer.

 

[seashoreCM]

I have a ventilator ...

How about a sign (3x5 index card taped on) with something like "Medical Equipment, Do Not Disconnect Or Remove"? (For backpacks containing applicable items)

And even a fake IV bag on a short pole (with or without a flag and low enough to clear the bus door) at the back of the wheelchair with a tube going into the backpack.

 

[LisaBi]

I just got home last night. I never had an issue with bags on the wheelchair. Note that I do have DS walk onto the bus, and fold up the chair. They never said anything about removing the bags first. (They did not prevent the chair from being folded to as narrow as it could possibly be.)

Question about the comment above about the lines changing: I did notice the absence of a queue area for wheelchairs at some parks, and was flat out confused. Most of the time we were there at slow times(less than 10 or 15 people waiting to board), so it wasn't an issue. But one time we happened to walk up just as a supervisor was walking by. I started to get in line, but he directed me to the "normal" W/C waiting area (even though it wasn't really there).

Anyway - so do they now officially want us to wait in line, then have to wait for another bus if there is no room for W/C by the time we get to front of line? I'm OK waiting for a second bus if there was more than a full bus load already waiting when we arrive, but I don't think I'd be OK with it if there was space left when we got to the front, but then we couldn't board b/c there was no space to manuever the W/C on.

 

[Mama Who]

AB = able bodied

There is nothing in the ADA that says what you wrote.
A bus driver had told me and sent me a link to a federal transportation law about buses. I lost the link and can no longer find it so I don't have a 'source of truth' for that information. It was NEVER in the ADA though.
The main points were if a bus pulled up to a stop, a person with a wheelchair Was waiting, but could not be loaded onto the bus, that bus was considered "full" at that stop and could not load any other passengers at that stop.

Yep, not an ADA requirement but how some municipalities have chosen to avoid accusations of denying equal access. In Berkeley, CA for years (I don't know if it still happens) if a bus arrived with a broken lift at a stop with a passenger who needed it, the bus would not go on until a replacement arrived. It was a matter of, "if we ruin everyone's day then we can't be accused of discrimination."

 

[pmdeve]

I just got home last night. I never had an issue with bags on the wheelchair. Note that I do have DS walk onto the bus, and fold up the chair. They never said anything about removing the bags first. (They did not prevent the chair from being folded to as narrow as it could possibly be.)

Question about the comment above about the lines changing: I did notice the absence of a queue area for wheelchairs at some parks, and was flat out confused. Most of the time we were there at slow times(less than 10 or 15 people waiting to board), so it wasn't an issue. But one time we happened to walk up just as a supervisor was walking by. I started to get in line, but he directed me to the "normal" W/C waiting area (even though it wasn't really there).

Anyway - so do they now officially want us to wait in line, then have to wait
for another bus if there is no room for W/C by the time we get to front of line? I'm OK waiting for a second bus if there was more than a full bus load already waiting when we arrive, but I don't think I'd be OK with it if there was
space left when we got to the front, but then we couldn't board b/c there was no space to manuever the W/C on.

I would like to know how this works also. I have to use an ECV and by the end of the day it is difficult to maneuver onto the bus. Hopefully someone has already experienced this and can share. Thanks

 

[Talking Hands]

Op was this an old bus with a lift or the new bus with a ramp I think if it the lift one that why it a safety issue. Rather then being one about tieing you I now in the past they had trouble with guest on the old bus with bags getting hurt. They are replacing those old buses with the new low floor ones so it might not be a problem for much longer.

It was a ramp bus not a lift bus.

 

[BillSears]

About the backpack issue...

I think the ramps on some of the buses may be too steep. I think some of them are not the standard 1 foot length for every 1 inch rise in height. Because of this I notice that my wheelchair can tip over backwards if I'm not careful when I push myself up the ramp. On my last trip I started removing my backpack from the back of my chair and holding it in my lap to shift my center of balance further forward and make it less likely that I would tip over.

This problem mostly occurred in the areas where the ramps were lowered onto a street level instead of onto a sidewalk. The extra 6 inches of height of the sidewalk made the ramp seem normal but when they lower it all the way to street level it was tough going up the ramp. I wonder if the buses were designed for normal city use where the ramp would extend out onto a sidewalk and Disney using them on street level is not a normal use?

I've gone up many ramps in my years of using a wheelchair and the Disney bus ramps are steeper than almost any normal ADA style ramp that I've run into.

 

[BillSears]

I did some research on the bus ramp requirements and while a fixed ramp normally requires the 1:12 rule the bus ramp rules are a bit different. The 1991 rules, which I think are still in effect, vary based on how high above a 6 inch curb the bus is. So for example a bus that is 3 inches above the curb would have a minimum of 1:4. But a bus 3-6 inches above the curb requires a 1:6, 6-9 inches above the curb is 1:8 and 9 inches above the curb is 1:12. I'd guess the reasoning is that the longer the ramp is the more shallow the slope.

But in the 1991 rules a bus that opens onto the roadway level and not at a curb can have a slope as steep as 1:4 no matter how long the ramp is. So the ramps for the buses that open onto the road can be 3 times as steep as a normal ramp. No wonder I have problems with them!

The new proposed rules will require at least a 1:6 rise on all ramps. This will probably mean a 1:6 on roadways and a much easier ramp on curbs. It's still not great because it's twice as steep as a "normal" ramp but at least it's better than the 1:4.

http://www.federalregister.gov/arti...bility-guidelines-for-transportation-vehicles

 

[disney david]

Bill thanks for the info I pretty sure the buses meet Ada standards they are made by nova and other by gillig hey make the same buses for public transportion. So they haveto build them to Ada standards so they can't make them different for Disney only think Disney can change is paying more for wider doors. I thought it was a lift bus not a ramp bus because didn't think it was a problem getting up the ramp but maybe their afraid of you tipping during movement or going up the ramp. Now it could be the curb that might be low but it built not to be too steep.

 

[pmdeve]

Last trip when I was getting on and off the bus at the MK there was little room to clear the ramp. I looked at where the bus was parked and it was was parked correctly. It appeared as if the metal gates were closer. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[disney david]

hear a you tube video it from 2008 from mk of the gillig buses which is tone of the new low floor buses. It shows a family pushing a wheelchair on the bus with a bag on the back. It also show well atleast it looks to me that the bus can kneel because after he loads them he tilts the bus back and goes to the front and you see the buses move down but i could be wrong.

it also good if you never rode a bus at home how they load you so you know what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxDFPPnIFE&feature=related

 

[IrishIz]

No there were 3 able bodied people with the 2 non walking. When each of my n on walking kids rode the ride anyone in the disability section that could stand up and walk was put on the ride. You don't have to have anyone with you to ride the ride if you are unable to walk which means there must be cast members to assist in the event of an evacuation. Also when they load 5 people from the disability spot to ride the ride none of them should be able to walk down the stairs unassisted if they can they don't need disability access.

I'm going to take a second to educate you.

I have a child who can walk down the stairs unassisted. That doesn't mean he doesn't have joint pain and joints popping out of socket.

I have a child who usually can walk down the stairs unassisted. That doesn't mean she doesn't tire or have pain.

I'm sorry but your comment is VERY ignorant.

 

[IrishIz]

Also the new system at Magic Kingdom is not equal access for all. They are doing it in a manner that requires the wheelchair guest to wait for another bus even if they would have been able to board if they were not using a wheelchair. This as I said is not equal access especially when they continue to load people not in wheelchairs that are behind me in line. Sorry that doesn't cut it. If they make me wait then everyone behind me needs to wait as well. THAT IS EQUAL ACCESS!

What? If there's room on the bus for regular people and not a wheelchair why wouldn't you let others on? Sometimes we have to wait in life and that's just well...life.

So send a partially full bus? Childish.

 

[dclfun]

What? If there's room on the bus for regular people and not a wheelchair why wouldn't you let others on? Sometimes we have to wait in life and that's just well...life.

So send a partially full bus? Childish.

I probably shouldn't say anything as I see you are new, but so far in your last two posts you have called one frequent poster ignorant and another childish. Really????? It's not necessary to call names, but at any rate, welcome to the DisAbilities section where we do try and support each other..---Kathy

 

[leebee]

I probably shouldn't say anything as I see you are new, but so far in your last two posts you have called one frequent poster ignorant and another childish. Really????? It's not necessary to call names, but at any rate, welcome to the DisAbilities section where we do try and support each other..---Kathy

 

[Michigan]

I'm going to take a second to educate you.

I have a child who can walk down the stairs unassisted. That doesn't mean he doesn't have joint pain and joints popping out of socket.

I have a child who usually can walk down the stairs unassisted. That doesn't mean she doesn't tire or have pain.

I'm sorry but your comment is VERY ignorant.

Boy did you miss the whole point of the post. The point is people use the disability entrance because they have a disability. Ok so your kids can go down stairs unassisted so can mine but they crawl down them. Now if they asked you when you get on the ride can your kids go down 5 flights of narrow stairs in a hurry unassisted would you still answer yes or have to say no? If you said no then your kids wouldn't be able to ride together. I know if my two girls could ride together with their grandfather who would walk on the ride in the event of an evacuation they would have an easier time getting down then he would but he isn't questioned because he can stand and walk for short distances. The last time we went on spaceship earth youngest daughter and I were loaded with 2 people that said they couldn't walk up the ramp to get on the ride and needed their wheelchairs until they got to the top of the ramp. So if they can't go up the ramp what makes the cm think they are going to be able to go down the stairs in an evacuation?

 

[IrishIz]

I probably shouldn't say anything as I see you are new, but so far in your last two posts you have called one frequent poster ignorant and another childish. Really????? It's not necessary to call names, but at any rate, welcome to the DisAbilities section where we do try and support each other..---Kathy

I was stating it towards the actions and words...not them.

Expecting a bus not full to leave because you can't get on so nobody else should...I find it childish. Sorry.

Stating that people who can walk stairs don't belong in a disability line is offensive to somebody who has children who can walk down stairs.

Sorry...I was offended.

 

[IrishIz]

"Also when they load 5 people from the disability spot to ride the ride none of them should be able to walk down the stairs unassisted if they can they don't need disability access."



That statement is rude in my opinion. That is suggesting that my kids who can walk up and down stairs do not belong in the disability access area. WRONG!

When they load us they are loading 7 people. There is 1 infant. There are 3 adult sized people. There are 3 kids...2 with physical issues and 1 with Aspergers.

I'm reading the sentence as it is and I'm sorry but I find it ignorant and slightly offensive. The number of stairs my children can do has nothing to do with their right to use the disability access entrance.

I'm not new to the world of disabilities or boards. I am new to seeing people with disabilities in their lives draw lines as to who deserves what and when.

 

[disney david]

I was stating it towards the actions and words...not them.

Expecting a bus not full to leave because you can't get on so nobody else should...I find it childish. Sorry.

Stating that people who can walk stairs don't belong in a disability line is offensive to somebody who has children who can walk down stairs.

Sorry...I was offended.

Sorry I was wrong adopt it being law it not just Disney policy

 

[Michigan]

"Also when they load 5 people from the disability spot to ride the ride none of them should be able to walk down the stairs unassisted if they can they don't need disability access."



That statement is rude in my opinion. That is suggesting that my kids who can walk up and down stairs do not belong in the disability access area. WRONG!

When they load us they are loading 7 people. There is 1 infant. There are 3 adult sized people. There are 3 kids...2 with physical issues and 1 with Aspergers.

I'm reading the sentence as it is and I'm sorry but I find it ignorant and slightly offensive. The number of stairs my children can do has nothing to do with their right to use the disability access entrance.

I'm not new to the world of disabilities or boards. I am new to seeing people with disabilities in their lives draw lines as to who deserves what and when.

Again you don't get it. The reason my kids can't ride together is because they can't walk down 5 flights of stairs unassisted (although they could crawl down unassisted) and neither can yours so under disney's new standard not what they used to do but what they now do your kids would be told they couldn't ride the same ride cycle and it doesn't matter how many people you have with you. I had 3 adults who could do the stairs with 2 kids that can't and they would not allowed to ride together.

As for the bus issue the ADA law says their has to be equal access which means if she can't get on the bus when it's her turn then nobody else can. Disney's way around that in the past was to load wheelchairs first but people complained that anyone in a wheelchair should have to wait like everyone else. So if they take the position that chairs now wait then they will have to follow the equal access part of the law.