New Four Seasons Timeshare on Disney Property and Value Oriented West Side

[MassJester]

Last year AB stopped publishing estimates, so we only have numbers through 2005, but Disney has made it clear through the grapevine that attendence was lower then expected at WDW for the 50th and constant rumors about bad attendence in 2006.

"made it clear through the grapevine'??

That's a source?

 

[MassJester]

Disney slams Universal in 2005 theme park attendance
2005-12-27
By Robert Niles: More big news today:

The Walt Disney Company's decision to mark flagship theme park Disneyland's 50th anniversary with newly installed shows and attractions at all its theme parks around the world paid off with significant attendance gains. Amusement Buisness magazine's annual estimate of global theme park attendance gives Disney's parks in the U.S., Japan and France the top 8 spots.

In North America, Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom continued to lead the nation, with an increase of 6.5 percent, pushing the park's 2005 attendance to more than 16 million visitors. Nationwide, attendance at the nation's top 50 parks increased 4.2 percent.

The big loser in this year's report was Disney's archrival, Universal, which saw attendance at all three of its U.S. parks decrease, led by twin 8.5 percent slides at Universal Orlando's Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure. Apparently, new "Fear Factor" shows on both coasts weren't anywhere near enough to draw fans from the competing Disney parks down the road.

Universal's Islands of Adventure lost the top spot in the annual Theme Park Insider Awards to Tokyo DisneySea this summer, in part due to a lack of new attractions at the Orlando park. Now IoA has suffered the further indignity of dropping behind Disney's California Adventure in annual attendance. (Though it must be noted that DCA's attendance was helped greatly by sopping up the overflow crowds from Disneyland's blockbuster 50th aniversary celebration.)

Here are the numbers for the top 25 parks in North America, courtesy Amusement Business:


Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 16.1 million, +6.5 percent
Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif. 14.5 million, +8.5 percent
Epcot at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 9.9 million, +5.5 percent
Disney-MGM Studios at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 8.6 million, +5 percent
Disney's Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 8.2 million, +5 percent
Universal Studios Florida at Universal Orlando, 6.1 million, -8.5 percent
Disney's California Adventure in Anaheim, Calif., 5.8 million, +3.6 percent
Universal's Islands of Adventure at Universal Orlando, 5.76 million, -8.5 percent
SeaWorld Orlando, 5.6 million, +0.2 percent
Universal Studios Hollywood, 4.7 million, -6 percent
Adventuredome at Circus Circus in Las Vegas, 4.5 million, +2.3 percent
Busch Gardens Tampa Bay, 4.3 million, +5.1 percent
SeaWorld San Diego, 4.1 million, +2.5 percent
Paramount Canada's Wonderland in Maple, Ontario, 3.6 million, +7 percent
Knott's Berry Farm in Buena Park, Calif., 3.47 million, -3 percent
Paramount's Kings Island in Kings Island, Ohio, 3.3 million, -5.1 percent
Morey's Piers in Wildwood, N.J., 3.1 million, +1 percent
Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio, 3.1 million, -2 percent
Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk in Santa Cruz, Calif., 3 million, flat
Six Flags Great Adventure in Jackson, N.J., 2.9 million, +6 percent
Six Flags Great America in Gurnee, Ill., 2.8 million, +24 percent
Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, Calif., 2.8 million, +5 percent
Hersheypark in Hershey, Pa., 2.7 million, flat
Busch Gardens Williamsburg, 2.6 million, +8.3 percent
Dollywood in Pigeon Forge, Tenn., 2.3 million, +7.3 percent

This is the nearest bit of information I could find. I thought I read someone quote MK attendance in 2000 as 15 million, but I'll keep looking.

 

[YoHo]

"made it clear through the grapevine'??

That's a source?

I have no interest in causing trouble for those in a position to know what's going on in Burbank.

Would you prefer if I said "Deep Throat?"

There are sources for information which cannot be confirmed by news media. When taken with the AB info, it paints a single logical picture.

I suppose I should dig up the info. Hold on.

 

[YoHo]

I could only find the info for DL, I'm pretty sure Raidermatt knows where it is.

 

[MassJester]

I could only find the info for DL, I'm pretty sure Raidermatt knows where it is.

I thought the AB numbers posted above told a nice story. Not exactly the depressed picture you'd expect after reading how badly everything is going.

 

[YoHo]

Those are for one year. How does that matter when we're talking about the year 2000?

 

[Another Voice]

It's simple - if Disney was hitting record attendance you'd hear it trumpted at each and every report, news conference and rope drop announcement the company made. Disney is a business - you know. Those kinds of things not only help the stock price, but they stroke the management's ego to no end. Yes, being up 6.5% from a previous low number is wonderful - but the company has never said it's even fully recovered to 9/11 levels, let alone peak attendance in 2000.

Hell, if Dollywood can post a 7.3% growth compared to my merger 5%, I'd be embarassed too.

And where are your facts and figures that everything is so happy. Where are your record crowds, where are your higher than ever occupancy rates.

Let's hear some figures from you to back up your statements*.

But discussions about attendance is all a gimick anyway. You know in your gut that hotel discounts, free food and "Year of a Million Turkey Legs" all really points to. Cheap debating techniques aren't going to hide the real problem, even if you try to deny it.

How many years did we get "Disney is happy with the returns from their Feature Animation offerings" during the years of Emperor's New Groove and Atlantis. Corporate camels always spin and spew - right up until the day they have to justify closing down the same unit they just hyped up.

So, continue to spin. Next month we'll get to hear why it's so wonderful that Disney doesn't have to operate its sit down restuaruants any more. Then we'll hear about this unit or that unit being sold off - and how it's all for the best. Every move the company makes is wonderful.

Except for the one that cuts off your paycheck.


* - Since I won't be around to get your answer, I'll just assume the old high school debating club trick "I'm not making the allegation, so I don't have to prove anything" non-answer and move on from there.

 

[MassJester]

This is the best I could find from the following web site:

http://www.wdisneyw.co.uk/attend.html

Of course, it is not an unidentified/unamed source in the know, but perhaps it moves the discussion forward.

2003

Magic Kingdom - 14 million

Epcot - 8.6 million

Disney-MGM Studios - 7.9 million

Animal Kingdom - 7.3 million

Universal Studios Florida - 6.9 million

Islands of Adventure - 6.1 million

SeaWorld Florida - 5.2 million



2002

Magic Kingdom - 14 million

Epcot - 8.3 million

Disney-MGM Studios - 8 million

Animal Kingdom - 7.3 million

Universal Studios Florida - 6.9 million

Islands of Adventure - 6.1 million

SeaWorld Florida - 5 million



2001

Magic Kingdom - 14.7 million

Epcot - 9 million

Disney-MGM Studios - 8.3 million

Animal Kingdom - 7.7 million

Universal Studios Florida - 7.2 million

Islands of Adventure - 5.5 million

SeaWorld Florida - 5.1 million



2000

Magic Kingdom - 15.4 million

Epcot - 10.6 million

Disney-MGM Studios - 8.9 million

Animal Kingdom - 8.3 million

Universal Studios Florida - 8.1 million

Islands of Adventure - 6 million

SeaWorld Florida - 5.2 million



1999

Magic Kingdom - 15.2 million

Epcot - 10.1 million

Disney-MGM Studios - 8.7 million

Animal Kingdom - 8.6 million.

 

[hopemax]

As a project, awhile back, I gathered these numbers:

http://www.geocities.com/hopemax.geo/wdwattendence.htm

 

[MassJester]

Let's hear some figures from you to back up your statements*.

You're a riot. You make the assertion, and when I question where you get your facts you come back with "prove me wrong." Have you ever worked for the Bush Administration?

So, continue to spin. Next month we'll get to hear why it's so wonderful that Disney doesn't have to operate its sit down restuaruants any more. Then we'll hear about this unit or that unit being sold off - and how it's all for the best. Every move the company makes is wonderful.

You sloganeering is so compelling, it almost makes one forget that you offer no facts to back up your points.

Except for the one that cuts off your paycheck.

They'd have a hard time affecting my paycheck.

* - Since I won't be around to get your answer, I'll just assume the old high school debating club trick "I'm not making the allegation, so I don't have to prove anything" non-answer and move on from there.

Trick? No trick at all my good DISer--you got caught making statements you can't support.


Safe travels.

 

[YoHo]

So MK appears to be hitting a record attendence level, but WDW overall is still off.

And as AV says, it's including all sorts of gimicks to get you there like free food and discounts.

 

[MassJester]

So MK appears to be hitting a record attendence level, but WDW overall is still off.

And as AV says, it's including all sorts of gimicks to get you there like free food and discounts.

And yet revenues are up -- no tripple secret source for that, the annual report will do. So these "gimicks" can't be very costly.

 

[DancingBear]

And yet revenues are up -- no tripple secret source for that, the annual report will do. So these "gimicks" can't be very costly.

Better provide your citations for park revenues and the time periods you are comparing.

 

[DancingBear]

Here's some interesting figures (sources are the 2000 and 2006 10-Ks):

2000 Parks and Resorts Revenue: $6.8 billion
2006 Parks and Resorts Revenue: $9.9 billion

2000 Parks and Resorts Operating Income: $1.62 billion
2006 Parks and Resorts Operating Income: $1.53 billion.

So, MJ is correct that revenues have increased. But it looks like costs have increased at a much greater rate.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Hmmm.......no mention of the fact that inflationary factors could cause the revenues to be up, even if overall attendance were static, or even down.

But that wouldn't fit the argument very well I suppose.

 

[YoHo]

Which is interesting considering the number of cuts since 2000.

 

[raidermatt]

There are also more Disney parks and hotels open in 2006 than in 2000. Tokyo DisneySeas, DCA, Disney Studios Paris, Hong Kong Disneyland, Pop Century, Beach Club Villas, Saratoga Springs DVC, and DLR's Downtown Disney all opened after 2000 (parts of DLR's DTD opened during 2000 I believe). The Boardwalk Villas DVC, Vero Beach DVC and Hilton Head DVC were also all still selling in 2000.

Forgive me if I missed anything.

I sure would hope that revenues would be up. Doesn't really tell us much though.

The stock price has underperformed vs. both the DJIA and S&P 500 at the 5, 10 and 15 year comparison marks.

While that doesn't address the comparison of a hypothetical Disney vs. the current Disney, it does tell us Disney's performance vs. other coroporate entities has been less than steller over the long haul.

 

[LuvDuke]

And yet revenues are up -- no tripple secret source for that, the annual report will do. So these "gimicks" can't be very costly.

For crying out loud, you don't have to be a genius to figure out how Disney's revenues went up.

Here's a basic law of economics: When you charge more per head than the cost of gimmicks, you make a profit. Disney raised their prices twice last year. They raised their parking fees. They raised the prices of AP's and renewals. That's how they made their money. And, btw, that's how they lost this longtime customer and AP'r.

 

[manning]

They raised the prices of AP's and renewals. That's how they made their money. And, btw, that's how they lost this longtime customer and AP'r.

I hear ya. I own DVC and the last two visits (25 days each) very little time and money was spent at Disney. And when we didn't go off property we mostly stayed in our room and ate in. Even ordered pizza off property.

 

[larry_poppins]

Hey LuvDuke and Manning you can beat Disney at their own game. You can use Magical Express to go to DVC and then when you are their you can rent a car for the days you need it to go off property. Then use Magical Express to get back to the airport. You save money on airport transportation. You only rent a car for the days you need it. And instead of trapping you on property you are able to Magical Express allows you to come and go on and save money.

Larry