New ECV Rules Oct. 1?

[SueM in MN]

As promised, I took a picture of the bars at the Epcot bus stop for OKW.

Bus stops 1-8 had the permanent (and rather substantial) bars like this for the bus waiting lanes. They had no directions for where guests with mobility devices should wait, so there was confusion about where to go. It was possible to go in front of the barred line, but if guests with wheelchairs waited there, they were in the way of guests getting off the bus.

The OKW bus stop was a little different because it had no ways out from the time guests entered the line. So, once you got into the line, the only way to get on the bus was to continue to the end opening (where you can see people standing). The side closest to the the left of the picture was open at the end, but the other end was not open and had no chains to open.

Some of the other bus stops at Epcot had the same bars, but with different arrangements of openings (like a chain where the rear of the bus would be).

Downtown Disney bus stops were not changed at all (contrary to reports some people had heard).

MK was the same as before, with an opening at the 'back door' area which had a wheelchair symbol.

 

[maroo]

I guess waiting longer for a bus doesn't bother me. We did run into the mainstreamed lines at Epcot. Plain and simple, you get in the regular line, then you pop out at the wheelchair opening. Then you wait on the next bus to arrive and you board that bus first. Yes, there will probably be folks in behind you that get on board before you, but so what?

Honestly, I think the only time that will be a problem is park closing, so you get to bed a little later?? In the middle of the day when you may be going to another park or going to another resort for dinner and may have a time schedule, there will not be enough folks in the bus line for it to be an issue.

I do agree that the main problem will be park closing. And I, nor do any of my friends in wheelchairs that have talked about this this week, don't have any problem waiting for the next bus. In fact, I waited for the next bus quite a few times on my last trip - that isn't a problem.


The problem comes when it is late, everyone is tired, and they have a system that effectively causes someone in a wheelchair to wait 40 minutes longer than people walking. In my case, the reason I was even using a wheelchair was benign and I have no underlying things that would cause a problem for me waiting that long - but I have traveled with other families that will not be able to wait like that for the 5th bus.

I will be watching for future reports to see how we will plan to handle park closing as we travel.

Can someone tell me how long First Aid is open after a park closes??

Also - are there cabs that can transport a power wheelchair?

See, as Sue mentioned, everyone's needs are different. Maroo already said that she waited for FIVE busses. Why should I pop out of the mainstream line and wait for a second bus while everyone behind me gets to board? I am on a ventilator with a battery life and also tire very easily. Sometimes I don't realize just how long it will take me to get out of a park or I am suddenly in great pain. As to going to bed a little later, it's a very big deal for me. Not one size fits all.---Kathy

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Also - are there cabs that can transport a power wheelchair?

Yes. Mears (Yellow Cab, Checker Cab, etc.) has at least 20 lift-equipped taxis. They recommend reserving in advance as they may not all be in service at the same time or out of the area you need service. The cost is the same as their regular taxis (but I recently saw Orlando taxis are the 5th most expensive in the country). Call Mears at 407-422-2222 for more information or for reservations.

 

[mom_2a_sept_princess]

But what about the other people who crowd someone in a wheelchair. That aren't paying attention and trip over my daughter in line and get mad like it is her fault. What about the kid who keeps touching my daughter's wheelchair and the parents won't do anything to stop them. What about the person who backs up and my daughter is forced to back up too and hits someone behind her.

I am not worried about waiting for another bus. We will wait for our turn. I am just worried about all those people crammed into a line where there is no way for Emma to get out of line if we need to.

 

[Belle1997]

Wow I had no idea this was happening. A special wave to Kathy who I met on the DCL Transatlantic cruise. Her service dog is just wonderful.

I am not happy with this new system. I know I have waited in the accessible spot for a ride to the park even before this new system. Hearing alot of times I need to rent one of these. I have my own because I need it. I would then reply you would not want one when there are 2 scooters in front of you and the bus can only take 2 while there is plenty of space for people who walk on. Or if they sent a a bus that has no lift.

I have had times I wanted for 3 buses. First bus 2 scooters in front of me. Second a non accessible bus. It is not fun. Especially in the heat. I do travel alone to. So once in the line with no cover I can not leave? and get back in line. This is not good for me and my MS. Normal I would leave my scooter and shuffle to the shade. Now I can not do this. They better have shelter at every line.

As for waiting in line for rides not fun. I can not go in the normal cue of tower of terror because I do not have the strength to push myself in a wheelchair. They say scooter can not make it through the cue. When I say I have they tell me there is no way because you must transfer to a chair. I think I had some sensible Castmembers that realized my travel scooter was smaller than a lot of wheelchairs and let me in.

So why can they not make a box for scooters to go to to see if they can get aound the cue line. How hard is that. So it is not fair I do not get to the preshow of Tower of Terror if I travel alone. Nor pirates etc.


I see both sides. I have seen people take advantage of the scootesr since they are so easy to rent. It makes my blood boil.

I worry about the people who use ventilators in this new system. Does someone have to die for it to change. Lets say you are in line with no one else but a family with young kids. ( I know seems highly unlikely but not impossible. (Since I have ridden on a empty bus more than once time.) the little kid is playing around and dislodges the air flow tubing. NO problem the person can quicky give instructions on how to reattach it to the parents right. Nope they do not speak english. They do not understand what you are saying and the urgent need to respond.

This is a tragedy waiting to happen. I am sorry the needs of these people must come before any standing. Given the choice I would let that person stand in the cue box and when I got up to my chance on the bus I would give my spot to them. Would any else think to do this. Would there even be a safe place for a person to wait with these metal barriers.

Cathy I would definately write Disney with your concerns. I really do not think they thought it all out. I do hate to wait extra buses cause I have a scooter. It is not fair. It is not fair to be last off because it means a longer security line to wait in. So yes we got on first but in the end we get into the park last. I do not think guest thik about this when they see the scooters getting on first.

Has Disney really thought this through? Guests getting mad because they had to stand longer over someone that could be at sever health risk?

Have they talked to people who use wheelchairs and scooters daily.

Yes if this is going to be the new normal they do need a special GAC for transportation. For those that standing in a line who could be in grave danger they need this, I would not qualify but I will just learned to smile while I have to wait up to 3 buses. When I need to get to a reservation that I was sure would give me enough time to get to it. But I did not plan on waiting for extra buses.

I have found Disney to be lacking in knowledge on handling people who really need their mobility devices. A recent trip to WDW my scooter died, no power on the ramp up the exit of Space mountain. I waited to get some help for almost 1 1/2 hours. Since I was by myself and my scooter was dead. I was scared and afraid because I had no idea what to do. No lie this is a direct quote from a College castmember.

"Well you chose to either walk into this park or use a scooter. WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT I did not have the choice. Well I did. I would not be going to Magic Kingdom or anything more than 100 feet.

They really need to teach these kids some life lessons. Do they even have a clue.??

PS I did get a ride back to my room at POP but had to get back to Magic kingdom to get my scooter. If this ever happens again I will demand someone get me. Because it too me no lie 40 minutes to get from the POP bus line to walk to the gates of MK. But then again I Chose to to use a scooter to get into MK

Not looking forward to my next trip

 

[toocherie]

Wow I had no idea this was happening. A special wave to Kathy who I met on the DCL Transatlantic cruise. Her service dog is just wonderful.

I am not happy with this new system. I know I have waited in the accessible spot for a ride to the park even before this new system. Hearing alot of times I need to rent one of these. I have my own because I need it. I would then reply you would not want one when there are 2 scooters in front of you and the bus can only take 2 while there is plenty of space for people who walk on. Or if they sent a a bus that has no lift.

I have had times I wanted for 3 buses. First bus 2 scooters in front of me. Second a non accessible bus. It is not fun. Especially in the heat. I do travel alone to. So once in the line with no cover I can not leave? and get back in line. This is not good for me and my MS. Normal I would leave my scooter and shuffle to the shade. Now I can not do this. They better have shelter at every line.

As for waiting in line for rides not fun. I can not go in the normal cue of tower of terror because I do not have the strength to push myself in a wheelchair. They say scooter can not make it through the cue. When I say I have they tell me there is no way because you must transfer to a chair. I think I had some sensible Castmembers that realized my travel scooter was smaller than a lot of wheelchairs and let me in.

So why can they not make a box for scooters to go to to see if they can get aound the cue line. How hard is that. So it is not fair I do not get to the preshow of Tower of Terror if I travel alone. Nor pirates etc.


I see both sides. I have seen people take advantage of the scootesr since they are so easy to rent. It makes my blood boil.

I worry about the people who use ventilators in this new system. Does someone have to die for it to change. Lets say you are in line with no one else but a family with young kids. ( I know seems highly unlikely but not impossible. (Since I have ridden on a empty bus more than once time.) the little kid is playing around and dislodges the air flow tubing. NO problem the person can quicky give instructions on how to reattach it to the parents right. Nope they do not speak english. They do not understand what you are saying and the urgent need to respond.

This is a tragedy waiting to happen. I am sorry the needs of these people must come before any standing. Given the choice I would let that person stand in the cue box and when I got up to my chance on the bus I would give my spot to them. Would any else think to do this. Would there even be a safe place for a person to wait with these metal barriers.

Cathy I would definately write Disney with your concerns. I really do not think they thought it all out. I do hate to wait extra buses cause I have a scooter. It is not fair. It is not fair to be last off because it means a longer security line to wait in. So yes we got on first but in the end we get into the park last. I do not think guest thik about this when they see the scooters getting on first.

Has Disney really thought this through? Guests getting mad because they had to stand longer over someone that could be at sever health risk?

Have they talked to people who use wheelchairs and scooters daily.

Yes if this is going to be the new normal they do need a special GAC for transportation. For those that standing in a line who could be in grave danger they need this, I would not qualify but I will just learned to smile while I have to wait up to 3 buses. When I need to get to a reservation that I was sure would give me enough time to get to it. But I did not plan on waiting for extra buses.

I have found Disney to be lacking in knowledge on handling people who really need their mobility devices. A recent trip to WDW my scooter died, no power on the ramp up the exit of Space mountain. I waited to get some help for almost 1 1/2 hours. Since I was by myself and my scooter was dead. I was scared and afraid because I had no idea what to do. No lie this is a direct quote from a College castmember.

"Well you chose to either walk into this park or use a scooter. WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT I did not have the choice. Well I did. I would not be going to Magic Kingdom or anything more than 100 feet.

They really need to teach these kids some life lessons. Do they even have a clue.??

PS I did get a ride back to my room at POP but had to get back to Magic kingdom to get my scooter. If this ever happens again I will demand someone get me. Because it too me no lie 40 minutes to get from the POP bus line to walk to the gates of MK. But then again I Chose to to use a scooter to get into MK

Not looking forward to my next trip

Ruth: I am so sorry you had the issues you did at MK! Did you write a letter to Disney after this experience?

Cheryl

 

[Magicbus]

I new this topic would take off once it became known. But I don't think that people in ECVs/WCs should take it out on the drivers. We're just following the rules.

My most recent experience with the policy occured last week. A guest in an oversize ECV was at a MK load zone and even though it was clearly oversize, I loaded it. What am I supposed to do? Some how she got there, I had no choice. I'm a non-threatning, mild mannered, person. I try to keep things light. After loading the ECV, I politely informed them about the size restriction and that it wasn't a problem this time but they need to think about it on future visits. Well, it was like I told them the world had came to an end. They were put off and somewhat less than polite. I could hear them grumbling in the background as I took them to their resort. Things like, I guess we won't be coming back and Universal here we come.

After politely unhooking the monster ECV and unloading it, I didn't even get an acknowledgement of service or a thank you. They left in a huff. I watched them after they left the bus and I could tell they were angry. The man rushed into the lobby, I'm sure to complain about what I had just told him.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Sue, you're still down there at the World and OKW? That's a nice long trip! Enjoy, you deserved it with all the hard work on here and IRL.


Ruth; sorry you ran into a, how shall I put it nicely, idiotic CM at Space Mountain. Really am!

However it isn't my experience that CM's on general, or CM's on the college program on general for that matter, don't know how to deal with guests needs. They don't always know upfront how to deal with very specific needs some of us might have, but I can't say anything else than running into very knowledgable, capable, easygoing, nice CM's in at least 95% of the times. And I can tell you I'm a rolling problem waiting to happen. Don't go out looking for it, but things just happen.

Again nothing excuses the idiotic CM. If you didn't already; file a report! Whatever detail you can still remember; use it and file it. That needs to be addressed, simple as that. Having said all of this, I do wonder if CM's do have a different outlook on, additude towards and dealing with guests based on the type of mobility aid used. I'm not even going to assume it's on purpose, it can very well be unconcious IF there is such a difference. But I am wondering if there is a difference being made between guests using rentals and guests obviously using their own aid and perhaps even a third group; the second topped with a visuality of their disability being beyond "a simple mobility problem thingy".

There shouldn't be a difference on assuming bases, there should be questions (if need be) to find out a guests abilities and needs and act accordingly. But when reading the DIS and looking around at WDW it does now and again make me wonder if there is a difference in treatment between the "rental" and "owners" by CM's.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I new this topic would take off once it became known. But I don't think that people in ECVs/WCs should take it out on the drivers. We're just following the rules.

That goes without saying. That's just as stupid as the guests asking a CM "when is the 3 oclock parade?" and some more not so nice things. I know there will be some folks out there that will take it out on the driver, but those are the same type of folks that would've taken it out on the driver if they would've been standing or crawling for all I care.

My most recent experience with the policy occured last week. A guest in an oversize ECV was at a MK load zone and even though it was clearly oversize, I loaded it.

What am I supposed to do? Some how she got there, I had no choice. I'm a non-threatning, mild mannered, person. I try to keep things light. After loading the ECV, I politely informed them about the size restriction and that it wasn't a problem this time but they need to think about it on future visits.

Really enjoyed being allowed into your brain in this situation. I've come to "read" you on the DIS as a nice, customerfriendly person and you've proven it. I've also come to "read" you as something that finds safety really important, so I wouldn't have been surprised either if you would've informed her of the options (taxi), change or regulations and why the limit was set. Not because you're a "bad" guy, but because that safety thing. You really did walk that extra mile in this case to help along a guest eventhough you didn't have to or should've. As you didn't get one from her, I'll do it;

Well, it was like I told them the world had came to an end. They were put off and somewhat less than polite. I could hear them grumbling in the background as I took them to their resort. Things like, I guess we won't be coming back and Universal here we come.

Their loss, imho.

Sure regulations have changed but these sizes aren't new. They've been around since at least 2007 when I went on my first trip and knowing Disney a looooong time before. They could've and should've checked if the used aid fitted the max. sizes. Knowing it doesn't, you than know using Disney transportation is an added bonus if you are allowed but not something you should count on.

After politely unhooking the monster ECV and unloading it, I didn't even get an acknowledgement of service or a thank you. They left in a huff. I watched them after they left the bus and I could tell they were angry. The man rushed into the lobby, I'm sure to complain about what I had just told him.

Doesn't surprise me anymore by now. Heck, sounds like the type of guests that will argue the sizebox as "you used to allow it, eventhough official papers said otherwise, so you now owe it to me for life". Health doesn't discriminate when it comes to inconsiderate people with an I-am-entitled-to-complex.

Just wondering (I'm wondering a lot these days); do complaints get into drivers files no matter what? Or does the company do a little research into the validity of the complaint before "sticking it" to a CM or trashing it?

 

[kaytieeldr]

So why can they not make a box for scooters to go to to see if they can get aound the cue line. How hard is that. So it is not fair I do not get to the preshow of Tower of Terror if I travel alone. Nor pirates etc.

I've been told it's not a matter of what size scooters will fit, but as goofieslonglostsis points out in relation to the mainstream bus queues, individual Guests' abilities to navigate the turns. Many Guests using ECVs for the first time, or rarely for vacation, have too much trouble - and Walt Disney World won't offend anybody (or doesn't want to create 'issues' ) by saying, "Okay, you can take the ECV through the line, but you three people need to transfer".

One - admittedly potentially expensive - option might be to visit Disneyland. Tower of Terror there is ECV accessible. The entire queue, the library, and you can ride almost right up to the elevator.

 

[Magicbus]

do complaints get into drivers files no matter what? Or does the company do a little research into the validity of the complaint before "sticking it" to a CM or trashing it?

If a guest makes a complaint about a driver, they are pulled off the bus ASAP to meet with a manager. The manager gets the drivers side of the story and if there is a valid explanation, it's dropped. So IMO it's a fair process.

Early on I had a guest turn me in for closing the rear door on him. There are reasons why we don't want people boarding thru the rear door. There are signs that tell you not to board thru the rear door. Once the last guest gets off, the door is closed. If you try to beat the crowd and enter, the door will probably close on you because drivers visibilty is poor. I was pulled off the bus almost immediately after the complaint. I gave my side of the story and that was it.

As a result though, I don't close the door after the last guest gets off anymore. Ya, some people beat the line and board, but I don't want to have to answer to another unfounded complaint.

 

[disney david]

If a guest makes a complaint about a driver, they are pulled off the bus ASAP to meet with a manager. The manager gets the drivers side of the story and if there is a valid explanation, it's dropped. So IMO it's a fair process.

Early on I had a guest turn me in for closing the rear door on him. There are reasons why we don't want people boarding thru the rear door. There are signs that tell you not to board thru the rear door. Once the last guest gets off, the door is closed. If you try to beat the crowd and enter, the door will probably close on you because drivers visibilty is poor. I was pulled off the bus almost immediately after the complaint. I gave my side of the story and that was it.

As a result though, I don't close the door after the last guest gets off anymore. Ya, some people beat the line and board, but I don't want to have to answer to another unfounded complaint.

If you think they will complain and call your manager befor they complain will they go easier since you gave them the heads up. Or do you just have to wait just to follow the steps. Or in these cases do you think it be better to call the manager to explain the policy so there no chance of the driver getting compliant for following the rules because you know that they will say you was rude or make up thing that didn't happen. do you think it help if they paint on the buse stop a box saying if your chair dosnet fit you wont be able to ride and give them a number to call if they need more info on the policy. That way guest know before the bus gets their and my cut down in complaints.

 

[clkelley]

Really enjoyed being allowed into your brain in this situation. I've come to "read" you on the DIS as a nice, customerfriendly person and you've proven it. I've also come to "read" you as something that finds safety really important, so I wouldn't have been surprised either if you would've informed her of the options (taxi), change or regulations and why the limit was set. Not because you're a "bad" guy, but because that safety thing. You really did walk that extra mile in this case to help along a guest eventhough you didn't have to or should've. As you didn't get one from her, I'll do it;

I'll give MagicBus a too. Really nice guy in person too

 

[SueM in MN]

Sue, you're still down there at the World and OKW? That's a nice long trip! Enjoy, you deserved it with all the hard work on here and IRL.

No, I'm actually home. We were gone for 17 days though and had a great time!

Now, I'm just trying to catch up with everything.

I hope some day to meet some of the nice bus drivers who post here

 

[dclfun]

Just an FYI, I was incredulous at Ruth's issue with her scooter. Someone should have sent it to her resort vs. having her struggle to pick it up. She was staying on property, after all. I still don't understand how the CM's involved didn't realize that she didn't have the ability to get to the park and back to the resort w/o a scooter to start with!

There are two issues here, really- the size restrictions of ECV's and the new staging/queuing areas. I can understand that if someone has been visiting WDW for years in the same size scooter that they'd be upset to find out that the rules had changed. I have no solution as there's no way to send correspondence to every guest who might be using an ECV. Perhaps we don't know about it, but I'm surprised that driver's haven't been injured and buses damaged by ECV's that are really too large to navigate and fit safely on the ramps, esp. in the older buses. As to someone taking it out on the driver- that's a no-brainer. Don't shoot the messenger!

As to safety with the new queue areas, as I've mentioned it really will be a problem for me. I stay away from tight quarters as someone can easily dislodge some tubing and then I can't breathe. Skye can alert if something's loose but she can't put it back on. Kids often swing the chains or just fiddle with something when they're bored and parents don't notice what they're doing. Trust me on this one. I also don't have the physical tolerance to wait at the end of the day, or even in the middle of the day if I'm going back to the resort because I'm exhausted. Ruth brought up a good point about shade. I'm not about to subject my service dog to overheating on hot pavement or in the hot sun.
Again, I'll wait to read more reports. I do trust Disney to do the right thing as they do re-evaluate procedures that don't work. It just makes me think that alot of nondisabled guests have whined about having to wait for those of us with special needs. ---Kathy

 

[SueM in MN]

Just an FYI, I was incredulous at Ruth's issue with her scooter. Someone should have sent it to her resort vs. having her struggle to pick it up. She was staying on property, after all. I still don't understand how the CM's involved didn't realize that she didn't have the ability to get to the park and back to the resort w/o a scooter to start with!

Agree. That was really disturbing.

It just makes me think that alot of nondisabled guests have whined about having to wait for those of us with special needs. ---Kathy

I think it may be directly related to the practically once a week threads where people were whining about it and other posters were saying - "OK, don't complain here. Contact WDW and tell them your complaint."
If only a few did from each thread, that would be a lot of complaints.

While some people can wait in line and some people don't need a member of their party with them, people's needs vary a lot (as has been mentioned on this thread). I know a lot of people on those general threads don't understand that - many people posted that they don't see why anyone in a wheelchair can't wait alone while the rest of their party wait in line, etc, etc.

 

[Magicbus]

I'm surprised that driver's haven't been injured and buses damaged by ECV's that are really too large to navigate and fit safely on the ramps, esp. in the older buses.

Ahh, but they have and it doesn't have to be an oversize scooter. Drivers have been injured by ECVs. Just last week I was talking to a driver that needed fairly serious hand surgery. He was in the process of securing the scooter, the guest hadn't removed the key and accidentally hit the control. The scooter backed up over one of the drivers hands. It was resting on the floor helping to keep his balance while he was hooking the rear of the scooter.

Because there are guests waiting to board, we want to secure the scooter/WC as quickly as we can. We shouldn't, but we'll start securing the scooter without making sure that it's safe to do so. I've caught myself doing it.

 

[livndisney]

It just makes me think that alot of nondisabled guests have whined about having to wait for those of us with special needs. ---Kathy

I am sure this is the reason for the change. I am really disappointed that Disney is letting the whiners win. I fail to see how forcing wheelchair and ecv users to wait through several buses, while walkers behind the wheelchair board the bus is considered "equal access".

 

[lovetoscrap]

As to safety with the new queue areas, as I've mentioned it really will be a problem for me. I stay away from tight quarters as someone can easily dislodge some tubing and then I can't breathe. Skye can alert if something's loose but she can't put it back on. Kids often swing the chains or just fiddle with something when they're bored and parents don't notice what they're doing.

It isn't always the kids. I have had more than my fair share of adults that decide to squeeze past me to catch up with someone in line, knocking into my legs/feet, slamming a bag into my head, or sometimes actually moving my scooter as they force their way through. And the ones that decide that the back of my seat seems like a great place for them to rest by leaning on it.

I really have given up on the buses. While we agreed they were great when I was mobile it is just too much of a pain with the scooter. I have one that is lightweight, easy to load and park but I am tired of the wait and the issues. We have driven the last few times as a family and it has been so much easier in my van. I think that even if I decide to fly again I will plan to rent a car or van. Plus it makes it easier to go to the outlet stores!

 

[mytripsandraces]

I am sure this is the reason for the change. I am really disappointed that Disney is letting the whiners win. I fail to see how forcing wheelchair and ecv users to wait through several buses, while walkers behind the wheelchair board the bus is considered "equal access".

However they do it, someone has to wait while someone is given "preferred" access. Disney wouldn't have made this change if it weren't within the ADA regulations. If there have been incidents of driver injury due to unsafe wheelchair/ECV driving, then they've probably got the union (?), Mears, and/or OSHA to contend with, as well.