New dress code

[crusader]

Well, I pretty much agree with Matt 100% here. Very well said.

This especially:

DB, the problem with selective enforcement is that invariably, somebody being turned away for a t-shirt will spot somebody in a t-shirt not turned away. Now, you are open to accusations of discrimination, even if that wasn't the intent. Not to mention the "fun" position the CM has been put into.

Which is an excellent point. This information is now in the public domain which means the policy management will be monitored online. So where does Disney intend to draw the line here?

Can somebody clarify for me if this has always been the policy and it's just now being made an issue?

When DS & DD start to whine because that can't wear the same cloths they've had on for a week, Mom and Dad need to explain why it is proper to dress appropriately

That's all well and good for an adolescent on down.

But what about that whole demographic of young working class adults soon to become the next generation of family who will strongly buck this system if imposed on them now? They'll go elsewhere with a pretty determined conviction. Is this really the message Disney wants to deliver?

 

[mitros]

Ain't it great having a debate w/o the debate board? Debate board, we don't need no stinking debate board!

 

[FrozenTundra]

My point Crusader is that parents can't let a whole generation go uninformed about the proper protocol that is expected at fine dining locations or other social graces we all take for granted.

IMO there is signage out now at Yatchsman and other locations because parents have been too lax.

----" But what about that whole demographic of young working class adults soon to become the next generation of family who will strongly buck this system if imposed on them now? They'll go elsewhere with a pretty determined conviction. Is this really the message Disney wants to deliver?"----
Confusing first sentence, let me see if I understand it correctly: The kids aren't adults yet, but when they are -and then have kids - they won't subject their kids to the standards their parents forced on them ? Sorry, but that logic has been used for generations and applies to every aspect of raising a child & in most cases these new parents realize their parents weren't so dumb after all. You do need to brush your teeth. Peas really are good for you. And sometimes you need to put on your Sunday best to go out to dinner.

We all know that Disney is never going to turn away some young guy or gal for not dressing appropriately. But someday they may be terribly embarrassed when they are turned away from a restaurant that doesn't just recommend a certain attiare, they demand it.

 

[raidermatt]

Sorry, but that logic has been used for generations and applies to every aspect of raising a child & in most cases these new parents realize their parents weren't so dumb after all.

Apparently, one of those exceptions is how folks dress for dinner. Otherwise, we wouldn't even need to be having this discussion, because we'd all still be wearing suits and dresses to dinner, and for that matter, to the parks.

Again, to most, WDW presents a more casual atmosphere than even the average places outside WDW. Its just not a good idea for WDW to try to buck that trend. I'm not saying thousands will rebel and never visit again because they couldn't wear flip flops. But if one's standards are such that flip flops are acceptable in all but the most formal occasions, which is becoming very much so the case now, then those folks are going to feel a little more restricted and a little less welcome in general.

Its just not worth doing this just because some aren't comfortable with these new social standards. And please remember I'm not talking about the whole speedo direct from the pool thing. I'd hardly say that has become the social norm in sit-down dining at casual locales, whereas flip flops and/or clean t-shirts have.

 

[FrozenTundra]

I don't know Matt. It sounds like you're in favor of letting WDW become a free for all. Disney shouldn't impose any rules or standards. People should be allowed to dress as they please, swim where they want, park where they want.

Why bother going to WDW when I can save a fortune & go to Six Flags in my back yard.

 

[pouncingpluto]

Believe it or not, there is a small but still significant type of guest that brings dress up clothes to WDW for that "one special evening".

Honestly, I thought that was the norm, rather than a small group. I do usually bring one dress for a night out, the favorite destination being California Grill. But honestly, pretty much anything I wear out to dinner any night to a non-counter service restaurant would fit that dress code... and not just minimally. And I'm not "old"... I'm a 27-year-old woman who considers myself relatively fashionable. Flip flops are not fashion... they're a fad. And they're comfortable... and I wear them to the grocery store... and walking the dog... and to the pool. But not out to a nice restaurant.

I consider my office to have a very casual dress code... too casual to even be considered business casual. And it is about what is being asked by these restaurants. No flip flops. No tshirts. No big deal.

 

[raidermatt]

I don't know Matt. It sounds like you're in favor of letting WDW become a free for all. Disney shouldn't impose any rules or standards. People should be allowed to dress as they please, swim where they want, park where they want.

Wow. That was quite a leap you took. I'll just repost this:

And please remember I'm not talking about the whole speedo direct from the pool thing. I'd hardly say that has become the social norm in sit-down dining at casual locales, whereas flip flops and/or clean t-shirts have.

So, no, I'm not in favor of a free-for-all.

Flip flops are not fashion... they're a fad. And they're comfortable... and I wear them to the grocery store... and walking the dog... and to the pool. But not out to a nice restaurant.

And nobody is saying you should do otherwise. Virtually all fashion, however, is a fad to a certain extent. Many dresses deemed perfectly acceptable today would not even get you in the door at various times in the past.

As for comparing it to the office, that's a mistake as well. Entirely different situations with entirely different considerations. An employee is more likely to accept those restrictions in the office than to accept them as a guest at WDW. As Disney is in the business of attracting guests, restrictions and exclusions must be VERY carefully considered, especially if they are moving in the more restrictive/exclusive direction.

And I mean, really, if its no big deal, are you REALLY going to give it anything more than a passing thought if you see an otherwise well-groomed and well dressed girl with flip flops at another table, or walking by? Do you REALLY want to send that person away because of that? More to the point, is it REALLY in Disney's best interest to send that girl, and her family/friends, away?

 

[bretsytwo]

I heard about this thread and HAD to reregister to say that I 100% completely agree with Pirate and Crusader. Get my seat in car1 dustedoff, i'm going for a ride.

Disney should require socially acceptable wear, nothing more.

Scoop, as usual, is [edited by moderator].

 

[crusader]

My point Crusader is that parents can't let a whole generation go uninformed about the proper protocol that is expected at fine dining locations or other social graces we all take for granted.

This is the problem. A nice quiet sit down restaurant which doesn't have a buffet or sports bar at the deluxe disney resorts does not constitute "fine dining".

It's like saying, my HDTV is better than yours simply because I paid more for it. You pay a premium for a great steak at yachtsman that you can obtain elsewhere only because you're at Disney and you're onsite - you're certainly not getting a 3:1 ratio of servers to patrons per table to help you digest that $45.00 filet.

Disney knows this. That's why they aren't imposing even a business casual attire here.

V & A is fine dining. The Rainbow Room in NYC is fine dining. Flying Fish isn't.

Therefore .............................

Disney should require socially acceptable wear, nothing more.

Exactly.

Confusing first sentence, let me see if I understand it correctly: The kids aren't adults yet, but when they are -and then have kids - they won't subject their kids to the standards their parents forced on them ?

No. You've missed the demographic entirely. They're already 21 - 35 now. They're at disney and they want to have dinner at Jiko's. The women put on their skirts or whatever, and their straps and thier expensive thong flips looking pretty darn put together for a night out. They show up and read a sign which basically excludes their entire wardrobe from entering this eating establishment.

What do think happens next?

I say, they reply "screw you" and go elsewhere and never give the place a second chance.

They're who Disney needs to be thinking about here. They're next in line to patronize this enterprise and position themselves well within our society.

 

[tjkraz]

IMHO, the bottom line is that WDW guests as a whole will determine the success or failure of this move. If dining traffic stays as-is or increases, it will stick. If dining traffic declines, the rules will change again.

It's not even worth trying to evaluate and/or predict acceptable social standards....society will do that.

 

[Villain Dude]

It's about time they started this ... (IMHO).

-Dude

 

[DancingBear]

They're already 21 - 35 now. They're at disney and they want to have dinner at Jiko's. The women put on their skirts or whatever, and their straps and thier expensive thong flips looking pretty darn put together for a night out. They show up and read a sign which basically excludes their entire wardrobe from entering this eating establishment.

What do think happens next?

I say, they reply "screw you" and go elsewhere and never give the place a second chance.

And I say they get seated without comment and have a wonderful meal.

Your hypothetical gal cared enough to put herself together for a night out. If she even notices the sign, she's unlikely to go storming off; she may be motivated to ask the hostess if she needs to change, and be told there's no problem.

This is just about sending a signal to all that this group of restaurants is shooting for something a little bit nicer, and sending a signal to the guests who have complained that Disney recognizes their concerns.

 

[FrozenTundra]

This is just about sending a signal to all that this group of restaurants is shooting for something a little bit nicer, and sending a signal to the guests who have complained that Disney recognizes their concerns.

Exactly.

On a side note, this is the first thread in a long time that I can recall where "birds of a feather" aren't "sticking together" . It's actually very refreshing to see - actually,read.

Even have Bret2.1 moving into his prefered Car.

 

[manning]

Tundra, what's 'Party For the Senses'? They said no shorts? This is ridiculous.

As for the code, it seems senseless to me. They are filling these places to capacity as it is what is the incentive? If I'm on vacation and I'm at the Park in a Disney T-shirt, shorts and tennis shoes why are they expecting me to go back to my room and change?

Sniff, sniff, sniff.

 

[bretsytwo]

Forgive me ahead of time--I know this will be a rambling and disjointed post.

This is a bad policy that flies in the face of what Disney World is supposed to be and what Disney is supposed to stand for.

It's a seperate issue from prices. Prices (should) coralate to what you are paying for. A 50 dolalr room or park ticket should contain the same value as a 500 dolalr room or park ticket.

This is not Disney offering a service, it's Disney placing a demand on their guests. All the guests get is the knowledge that during their dinner they won't be bothered by using the same restroom as some guy in a mickey tee.

Things can bother people at dinner. Noise, smell, what have you. If sandals are one of these I don't know what to say for you.

This is central Florida. Sandals, T shirts, and shorts are part of the natural wardrobe. I'm not advocating bikinis or speedos. The only times those are allowed in public are in water areas where as clothing they are functional.

The inappropriateness for any non water setting, Disney or not, means that they are appropriatly outlawed from resaurants and theme parks (technically they aren't allowed)

The sexuality of such certainly ruins the family environment.

But we are talking about Disney World, where every guest is equal. When you walk in the parks or into restaurants you do so as an equal with executives that could utilize the resort every day of their life and not feel the wallet pich one bit, and with the families of five that saved up for ten years pinching every penny so that they could have a once in a lifetime experience. Business suit or Tee shirt everyone is equal and everyone gets the same treatment.

That feeling of equality is what this policy kills.

Just by having the standards that you must dress yourself more than the casual person means that people will start questioning themselves. Is this GOOD enough for Disney? What if they don't like what I am wearing? Maybe I'm not good enough for this restaurant. Maybe I shouldn't go at all. Do I even belong?

For disney not only should you always belong, you should always be welcome. Not sure you are welcome so long as you adhere to rules placed above normal society.

Personally I crawl around property. I eat at some of these nice places on a whim. During the off season you can walk into places like the California Grill. I've done it. The thought that a family could be going through the parks, hear about the fireworks from the grill, and call to make priority seating arrangements only to hear that they aren't allowd to sit there because their nice clothes are back home an hour away in tampa, and their sandals, team mickey shorts, and winnie the pooh t-shirt isn't up to the standards placed upon Disney's guests...is apalling.

No matter if you choose to dress up or dress down for dinner all that matters is your behavior and if your check clears. A 50/50 poly blend of free Disney advertising that cost someone 15 bucks to buy shouldn't impact anyones dinner or how they are treated as a guest.

Once you hit Disney property your social status should never hit your mind. This policy has the risk of making guests feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. That seems to be the exact opposite of what Disney should be doing.

 

[Moobooks]

The only shoes I own are Merrills (they're sneakers).
The only pants I own are jeans.
I'm not a kid, but a middle-aged guy who is his own boss and runs a successful company.
I'm not about to buy wardrobe I don't own to eat in their restaurants, and they just lost a regular customer.

 

[mitros]

Personally, after walking around the parks a good part of the day, we prefer to go back to the room, clean up, re-dress in some cloths that are not soaked with sweet and grime, and go back out to eat. Since all of the restaurants with this new code are at resorts anyway, you have to leave the parks to get to them. We don't particularly care to wallow in our own filth while enjoying ourselves in a "nice" restaurant....but that's us!

Moobooks: I'm sure Disney will be very upset that they lost you as a customer Sorry, that was mean.

 

[DancingBear]

The only shoes I own are Merrills (they're sneakers).
The only pants I own are jeans.
I'm not a kid, but a middle-aged guy who is his own boss and runs a successful company.
I'm not about to buy wardrobe I don't own to eat in their restaurants, and they just lost a regular customer.

Uhhhh, sneakers and jeans are allowed.

 

[DancingBear]

Forgive me ahead of time--I know this will be a rambling and disjointed post.

This is a bad policy that flies in the face of what Disney World is supposed to be and what Disney is supposed to stand for.

It's a seperate issue from prices. Prices (should) coralate to what you are paying for. A 50 dolalr room or park ticket should contain the same value as a 500 dolalr room or park ticket.

This is not Disney offering a service, it's Disney placing a demand on their guests. All the guests get is the knowledge that during their dinner they won't be bothered by using the same restroom as some guy in a mickey tee.

Things can bother people at dinner. Noise, smell, what have you. If sandals are one of these I don't know what to say for you.

This is central Florida. Sandals, T shirts, and shorts are part of the natural wardrobe.

First, sandals and most shorts are allowed.

Second, Disney is placing this demand on its guests because OTHER guests ARE bothered. Why do those guests not deserve to be heard by Disney? Why does the lowest common denominator rule?

I'm not one of those folks who is bothered by well-behaved folks in t-shirts and flip-flops, but I'm perfectly happy dressing in accordance with the standards the restaurant sets out.

As has been said above, the Guests as a whole will ultimately be the ones who decide whether this is a successful policy or not.

But we are talking about Disney World, where every guest is equal. When you walk in the parks or into restaurants you do so as an equal with executives that could utilize the resort every day of their life and not feel the wallet pich one bit, and with the families of five that saved up for ten years pinching every penny so that they could have a once in a lifetime experience. Business suit or Tee shirt everyone is equal and everyone gets the same treatment.

That feeling of equality is what this policy kills.

Not true. It's intended to "kill the feeling of equality" between Cali Grill and the Concourse Steakhouse, not the equality among Guests.

 

[airlarry!]

Let's inject some common sense into this discussion.

A policy to enforce walking shorts and polo shirts is appropriate for resort-only dining...where other reasonable options are provided.

Asking that patrons refrain from wearing t-shirts, sandals, and exercise shorts (which I wear frequently to the parks) at a RESORT's signature restaurant is not elitist...instead it attempts to create a mood or an atmosphere.

I don't believe I've seen any picket lines in front of any of Disney's golf courses just because they require collared (unless you're Duval or Tiger) shirts to play and eat. It's tradition. So don't say that this is necessarily a new policy, because people have been succumbing to golf course wear for years, be it ties and knickers or walking shorts/slacks and polos, without permanent mental anguish.

Now, I'll join in Boo's opinion if they start messing with the public areas of the parks. There, the issue is convenience.