New dress code

[DancingBear]

Regarding the "class conscious" element of this discussion, I was thinking back to when a dinner at one of these places was really a stretch for us, and it occurred to me that, in fact, it was in those times that we were, if anything, more likely to treat such a dinner as a special event and get a bit dressed up for it.

Based on what I often see in restaurants, it's not the "working class" folks who dress down for such meals, but the "well-off" folks who (1) eat in such places on a regular basis, and (2) are somewhat more likely to have a "screw you, I'll wear what I want to wear (or I'll take my business somewhere else)" attitude.

 

[tjkraz]

Good point, DancingBear. But I'm left to wonder what impact the MYW dining has had...particularly with the "free" packages offered in the late summer. That kinda throws the financial element out the window. When dining is free, suddenly a meal a Jiko or Yachtsman isn't such a special event--it's just another meal to which the guest is entitled.

 

[bretsytwo]

First, sandals and most shorts are allowed.

Call, I've done it several times. They will tell you no sandals and no t shirts. Enforcement is another issue, but not really viable to this discussion.

Not true. It's intended to "kill the feeling of equality" between Cali Grill and the Concourse Steakhouse, not the equality among Guests.

I don't care what it is intended to do, I'm stating what it DOES do.

You want to kill the feeling of equality between two restaurants? Make the level of the restaurants...not the patrons...different.

Not that I think anyone would foolishly believe those two restaurants are equal just because they both might feature guys in Buffett shirts.

Second, Disney is placing this demand on its guests because OTHER guests ARE bothered. Why do those guests not deserve to be heard by Disney? Why does the lowest common denominator rule?

Yes and baron has wanted things like limits on 30K guests into the park to improve his stay.

Neither policy supports this:

Give the MOST guests the BEST time they can have.

Take a look at this thread and notice the following. Half the people are pissed. Half of the remaining don't mind the rule, but also aren't bothered by the sandaled masses during their meals.

Looks like what pleases the most guests is the old way, and it smells to me that this is pleasing the most pompous guests so that they continue purchasing $150 bottles of wine on Disney property. Don't worry, you can escape those casual people here....

There, the issue is convenience.

Larry try being one of those guests that skimps on a hotel so that they can eat fancy every night, and then figure out what time you'd have to leave the magic kingdom, grab a bus, ride to the all stars, chance, grab another bus to wherever dinner is, all while making sure you give yourself enough time to not be late.

Then tell me about conveniance.

It sure takes away from guests trying to get the most out of their Disney experience.

Asking that patrons refrain from wearing t-shirts, sandals, and exercise shorts (which I wear frequently to the parks) at a RESORT's signature restaurant is not elitist...instead it attempts to create a mood or an atmosphere.

It is NOT the job of the guest to create the atmosphere, it is Disney's job to PROVIDE it.

They don't make you talk or dress like a pirate in the pirates queue, but no one complains that it takes away from the caribbean pirates atmosphere.

A fancy restaurant is not made fancy by what their paying guests are wearing.

...there is nothing in this policy that violates Disney tradition. The Club always has. Golf courses have. V&A does. And those are very strict policies

Golf in itself, as do cruises, have a natural tradition of their own. Build someplace called the "prom dinner" and you can make people dress formal or whatever. Put in a chain restaurant at DTD that has a dress policy at every other restaurant, fine.

but Disney was always a place where you could dine casually under crystal chandelliers.

And im not talking about any 1989 tradition at Eisners Grand Floridian.

In this case, Disney wants to eliminate beach wear and workout clothes from its signature category restaurants. Not sandals. Not walking shorts. Not require collared shirts. Just create, in a very limited number of places, a situation where a couple or family on a special evening won't end up next to a couple just out of the pool or weight room.

OK, has anybody called??????

I've done this 5 or 6 times in the last month. They tell you no sandals, they tell you no t shirts, they tell you collared shirts. they tell you no sandals, they tell you khaki shorts.

CALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And as was already stated, swim wear outside of water places is never publicly acceptable, and was never allowed anyway. As far as workouts go, STENCH is an entirely different manner. Sweat shirts and running pants that are clean shouldn't bother a soul.

Regarding the "class conscious" element of this discussion, I was thinking back to when a dinner at one of these places was really a stretch for us, and it occurred to me that, in fact, it was in those times that we were, if anything, more likely to treat such a dinner as a special event and get a bit dressed up for it.

I'm not sure this has a point at all except to say what your personal preference is and why it's ok for you. Fine. Lot's of people dress up. Lots of people want to look nicer than usual. No one is banning that. It shouldn't be FORCED.

 

[bretsytwo]

oh and scoop, please send me a picture of your planned wardrobe for when we meet. I'll tell you if it's good enough for me.

I'm trying to create an atmosphere of class whenever anyone sees boo. Not by being classy myself, but by forcing others to.

 

[bretsytwo]

who was argue khaki shorts or closed toed shoes?

when you call they tell you collared shirts. Was he lying to you? No, but you pressed for specifics, and they aren't about to kick you out or keep you from coming. It's intimidation.

They say to you, are you aware such and such has a dress code? And you say no...what is it, and they rattle off the list.

Now yeah, if you press them about the fact that you are wearing a dressy shirt, and 44 thousand dollar sandals they'll let you sit.

Call back and ask if your universal T-shirt, jean shorts, and nice but open toed sandals will be acceptable since you plan on going straight from universal to wherever you dine.

By the way, for the big Curling/Boo/Pirate/Scoop soiree, I'll probably be wearing sand brown walking shorts, my Destination Gracie's Girl golf shirt, and the aforementioned Clarks.

Put a bag over your head and it's a go. I've seen your picture.

 

[manning]

I like to dine casually (shorts/blue jeans etc.) and business casually. And I like to dine refreshed and among those refreshed. Not with those in from a hot day in the park. There are some who can turn off your appetite.

Let's have choice.

 

[mt2]

Yes and baron has wanted things like limits on 30K guests into the park to improve his stay.


This would be great!

Maybe WDW has noticed that the casual diner is a bit too casual. I have seen some young women (and a few older that are acting like they are younger) wear nice shorts that are too short in both directions. I have also seen young men (again with the older) wear short that are nice but too big.

In both cases you see cracks! I don't want to see this for any reason. Is this extreme? Maybe but it is at the parks.

Maybe they want to reel it back in a bit. Wear shorts but don't show cheeks and cracks.

I know this doesn't really apply but when I was in Honduras last October we got in and were hungry by the time we made it through customs. We stopped at Schlostsky's from a quick bite. We wore khaki shorts and Polos with tennis shoes. We were under dressed! Everyone was dressed up. The ladies and young girls were in dresses and skirts. The men were in dress slacks, button up shirts and dress shoes. It is expected to dress this way when you leave the house no matter where you go. My DH's grandmother loves this country because, "You can go to the mall in pants. You don't even have to comb your hair if you don't want to. Noone would know the difference."

Just a thought.

 

[crusader]

And I say they get seated without comment and have a wonderful meal.

What are we back in the 70's where the doorman decides if you're worthy of a pass? If they get in, everybody should. Otherwise, the Company just wrongly afforded one person rights over another based entirely on bias and subjectivity. That's the biggest problem with the qualifiers on this dumb policy .

Short of no swimwear, and shirt and shoes being required there's nothing more they should be imposing on the guests.

A policy to enforce walking shorts and polo shirts is appropriate for resort-only dining...where other reasonable options are provided.

That's not the whole policy. You can wear jeans and sneakers but your t-shirt and thong flips require you to be escorted from the Flying Fish to the ESPN club. It's not business casual and it's not remotely reasonable. It's splitting hairs to the point of irrational stupidity. People are questioning the width of a strap on a sleeveless top to determine what the definition of a tank is? This is moronic.

 

[Uncleromulus]

I doubt anyone will want to know what I REALLY think about all this--.

SO--my $35.00 brand spanking new Disney T' which says "'IT all started with a Mouse" is totally unacceptable, while my Wal-Mart $8.. polo with a collar--is just peachy. Have I got that right??
Now what's the difference?? Lets' see-the writing, of course. But who wants to see THAT sort of writing on a shirt at WDW?? Disgusting and most inappropriate. Who could eat alongside a clod dressed like that??
And there's that doggone collar--now THAT is important. Changes everything!!! Of course, without the collar it looks mighty like a T'--but that's just me.

I see a new CM job opportunity here--"upscale" restaurant dress code enforcement officer. With appropriate training on how to properly drag patrons out who aren't correctly dressed. And about those who are in the restauant acting "out", drunk, etc etc. Who cares?? They LOOK good, and that's where it's at.

 

[airlarry!]

Exactly.

Its not about the money, its about the look.

And what's ironic is how the T-Shirt Shock Troopers will eventually eat each other.

"T-shirts and tennis are fine!"

"No, T-shirts and flip flops must be the standard, or I start punching people!"

"No way, you pretentious putz, Muscle sleeves and sandals are my right as a vacationer--this is Disney World!"

"You arrogant fop, I want to go in my bathing suit. It looks just like shorts! Get out of the way, Mr. CM, or I'll have be wearing your name tag on my ****!"

Dinner is served. Please wipe your mouth with a paper cloth as you feast on each other's hypocrisy. I'll be in the back room enjoying a little peace and quiet.

Oh yeah, remind me to cancel that invite to Boo for Osprey Ridge. When I'm putting, I don't need the distraction of Disney security removing him for ripping off his shirt in protest on the 8th hole.

 

[manning]

Rights....some are talking about their rights. The only right here is the right of the establishment to set standards and refuse service, if they want, to those who don't meet their standards.

We aren't talking Constitution here.

 

[peter11435]

Just by having the standards that you must dress yourself more than the casual person means that people will start questioning themselves.

Wow, what kind of world do we live in. Do you honestly think that needing to dress up for dinner is something that should be avoided because it makes people "question themselves."

It not about what you are wearing, the fact is that one should know when you should and should not wear certain items. The feeling of not fitting in shouldn’t be an issue. One should KNOW that flip flops are NOT acceptable attire for a restaurant like the California Grill. If someone honestly thinks they are acceptable attire then maybe they don't belong in the restaurant. Not because they are not dressed properly but because they have no sense of manners, etiquette, and accepted social behavior.

 

[Peter Pirate]

I disagree peter, I live in the Key's are our sense of acceptable is different than yours perhaps but is borune of necessity in living in the heat. Flip flops, shorts and T's are acceptable in the Key's at every restaurant I know of...I haven't tried Shula's in Key West yet but soon we'll see about them as well. Orlando swelters in the summer and some folks find flip flops cooler, they are a hot fashion trend and are they any worse than tennis shoes?

As for T's, I go back to my original statement echoed by Uncleromulous that say's it's unfathomable that a WDW restaurant wouldn't let a family in wearing expensive Mickey Mouse T's...

I agree that some standards should be looked at. I guess I can agree that tanks for men are suspect, although I've personally wore a muscle tank to FF and AP and never received a second look from anyone. Peoples clothes should be clean and cared for, but I disagree with making a distiction between walking shorts and athletic shorts, for example. If they're nice and clean, they are OK.

As far as the "questioning themselves" comment, I think folks on vacation at WDW should never have to worry if they're 'dessed' enough for dinner. Come as you are has always worked well I think.

 

[peter11435]

I disagree peter, I live in the Key's are our sense of acceptable is different than yours perhaps but is borune of necessity in living in the heat. Flip flops, shorts and T's are acceptable in the Key's at every restaurant I know of...I haven't tried Shula's in Key West yet but soon we'll see about them as well. Orlando swelters in the summer and some folks find flip flops cooler, they are a hot fashion trend and are they any worse than tennis shoes?

As for T's, I go back to my original statement echoed by Uncleromulous that say's it's unfathomable that a WDW restaurant wouldn't let a family in wearing expensive Mickey Mouse T's...

I agree that some standards should be looked at. I guess I can agree that tanks for men are suspect, although I've personally wore a muscle tank to FF and AP and never received a second look from anyone. Peoples clothes should be clean and cared for, but I disagree with making a distiction between walking shorts and athletic shorts, for example. If they're nice and clean, they are OK.

As far as the "questioning themselves" comment, I think folks on vacation at WDW should never have to worry if they're 'dessed' enough for dinner. Come as you are has always worked well I think.

You make valid points. And I have to regretfully agree with your statement about acceptable clothing being based on ones own perspective and environment.

 

[bretsytwo]

"Wow, what kind of world do we live in. Do you honestly think that needing to dress up for dinner is something that should be avoided because it makes people "question themselves.'"

I point this out because I think it's the slipping in the entire arguement.

I'm not talking about restaurants in NYC, or in crossroads, or anywhere like the "world we live in" I'm talking about Disney World. An entirely different world then the one we live in.

Yes any restaurant has the right to refuse servicve, and certainly Disney on the whole is the same. If someone were to argue "they have no right to do this" I would argue against them.

This is nothing more than a discussion on SHOULD Disney be doing this.

For most restaurants the answer is "hey if they want to" and in many cases it probably helps keeping riff raff like me out.

But Disney isn't supposed to have riff raff. Everyone is a guest. Everyone is a VIP, and VIP's in the real world don't get turned down from the nicest places in T shirts. Mr. Eisner can wear an ABC T in any restaurant in this country and waiters would be fighting to serve him. (of course for those who have dabbled in his autobiography or disney wars knows that as a child he was always forced to wear a tie to dinner).

And the thing is I've heard many guests and even members of my own family say they could never stay at the Floridian or the Poly because is makes them feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong.

And I think to myself, that's too bad, because Disney welcomes everyone. If you can afford a room in the poly they don't do a backup check to see if you might have a pickup you'll be parking in the parking lot. They allow you to walk through their lobbies on the way to the pool in smacking flip flops and neon colored swimming trunks with a towel over your shoulder.

And I think to myself that's good. I think to myself that Disney is showing these people that even with their casual lifestyle they deserve good things--and Disney is happy to provide them.

And the only difference between that and the restaurants is that food is involved, and without water clothing that reveals too much skin is innappropriate for a family atmosphere...and if you see me shirtless you'll lose your appetite quickly. That's it.

But I expect Disney to be the same welcoming company that calls everyone guests in their theme parks, resorts, and restaurants. Clearly this doesn't do that.

Instead you have people like Peter saying that maybe in fact someone who would dare to wear sandals doesn't belong on the balcony of the grill watching Illuminations, the electrical water pageant, and wishes from 15 glorious floors up. They have proven themselves not good enough for that sort of magic.

And I think to myself, maybe not in the real world, but that would break my heart in Disney World...

 

[Moobooks]

If sneakers and jeans are allowed, then calling it "business casual" is just plain wrong.
I don't know of anywhere in the country where business casual includes sneakers and jeans.

 

[airlarry!]

Hmmm....is it too late to delete my posts?

 

[bretsytwo]

well scoop, I'll answer them for you!

1. and 2. I draw the line at socially acceptable and I realize that it sounds vague, so I'll go further. Swim wear is designed for swim wear and so if it shows too much skin, say more than your average evening dress (and I have no idea what it is, in all my years I've yet to see any woman wear anything that shows too much skin) Swim wear is acceptable in water, and any wear is acceptable in private, but I go by standard acceptable wear shown on the streets.

Of course the premise of a modest swimsuit and a wrap cover are shown as extremes, but I'll say this, let's throw a chaquita banana hat on her head, and a goofy hat on her husbands, I don't care as a top. As a bottom, I didn't see anything that may stop the bathing suit from directly showing too much leg or going up and outlining her butt like underwear, so it'd be against the rules, but assuming your wrap does that then my only quesiton is this:

Does she have the available funds to pay for dinner?

If it's not disgusting, and it isn't inappropriate for the family, then it shouldn't be turned down.

3.Socially acceptable, aka, the old standard. Don't come in with bikinis so that my 12 year old son gets a sex education at Jikos, and don't come in with a speedo cause I wouldn't want Kidds drooling in his food.

4. (and the rest) I don't want VandA's to have a special policy.

 

[DisneyKidds]

calling it "business casual" is just plain wrong.

Don't they call is "resort casual"?

 

[renknt]

8 pages on "can a resturant set dress standards"

I guess some people will bicker about any thing. Does this reall detract from your WDW experince?

and Peter Pirate "the Keys" are more laid back than anywhere in the world not a fair comparison