New code watch - October/November

[lillygator]

There are two issues: one is with the new mechanism for discounting, the second is with the amounts of discounts.

As for the latter, the days of $250 concierge rooms, are, I'm afraid, well behind us. Travel has rebounded well enough that the steep discounting of the past is no longer required. In Disney's opinion, for every Buddy Bear that is upset because the deals aren't as good as they used to be, there is another new passholder who is thrilled to get a flat $70 off. Whether Disney is right or not (or even, if right, whether this is a sound business decision or not) is certainly open for debate.

exactly - I for one, am a passholder who likes the system so far....

 

[Tink10]

This issue is so much more than just about money. Let me give you a short list:

1. Not everybody is comfortable gving a credit card number online.

There is always the option of booking with a travel agent

2. There is no "warm & fuzzy" feeling when booking on your computer (cast members are much nicer).

That's debatable (kidding)

3. The non-refundable one night deposit which no other resort/hotel company has this policy. (late cancellation fees yes, but not a non-refundable policy).

Actually, quite a few companies have this policy. If you want the "special" discount rates that Starwood offers, then the ressie must be totally prepaid & nonrefundable. The same holds true with Expedia "Special Rates", Some available on Travelocity, Orbitz & another that comes to mind is Wyndham.

4. My reservation spans a peak and value season so now I have to make two reservations with two non-refundable policies or I get charged for the peak season rate for my entire stay.

When booking on the cusp of value season & holiday season in December, they're offering the discounted value season for the entire duration of the stay.

5. Disney hasn't made a firm decision on whether the Best Rate program will replace the regular passholder rate so people like myself are still holding out hope. As a matter of fact, had they made a decision sometime ago I would have booked a standard room and be done with it, but it has dragged out so long there are no standard rooms left.

Currently, this is mere speculation on the boards. At one time, CRO reps were telling people to keep checking, now when you call & ask about AP rates, the CM's will tell you that Best Rate is the only way to book anything at a passholder discount.

6. I don't have faith in the online booking system. I feel much more comfortable having a cast member check to see what is available and asking them to search their database for different types of rooms. The computer isn't going to give me helpful suggestions on how I can book my vacation.

Again, there is always the option of booking through a travel agent. If you want suggestions & tips, give Disney a call, they'll be more than happy to answer any questions you have

This subject is NOT up for debate, it is hands-down a bad idea! I have no problem with this being optional, but not mandatory.

Obviously it is up for debate, because we're here debating it

In Disney's opinion, for every Buddy Bear that is upset because the deals aren't as good as they used to be, there is another new passholder who is thrilled to get a flat $70 off. Whether Disney is right or not (or even, if right, whether this is a sound business decision or not) is certainly open for debate.

Brian, you're 100% correct in the first part of your statement. Many people, regardless of whether they're old or new AP holders, thrilled or bothered by the BR program, will still book through it because they want the discounts.

As far as it being a sound business decision, how could anyone say it's not? Some here think it's a good idea, some think it's a bad idea, but in reality, it's saving Disney a ton in lost revenue, which is why they implemented it in the first place.

 

[Buddy Bear]

Many people, regardless of whether they're old or new AP holders, thrilled or bothered by the BR program, will still book through it because they want the discounts.

Yes, you are correct; there are many people who will not "take a stand" and try to effect a change; they will acquiesce and move on.

I don't understand the comment in regard to "saving Disney a ton of lost revenue".

Prior to the Best Rate program you have to assume that evey passholder that was aware of potential resort savings participated; hence 100% participation.

With the Best Rate program there are clearly people not happy with the policy so you will have less than 100% participation.

Therefore, the revenue was not "lost" before, but clearly lost now.

Besides there is no correlation between Disney saving "a ton" of money and customer service.

 

[Tink10]

In order to understand the revenue situation, you need to look at more than just the number of rooms not booked by those who don't like the program. Disney's not stupid and I'm sure they ran surveys to see if passholders would be accepting of the program.

The small number of AP holders who will not book with BR is not a large amount of money lost. The Best Rate program was implemented to increase revenue in two ways:

1) To reduce payroll at CRO. The bulk of CRO's payroll hours & overtime came when AP rates or other major promos were released. Having been a CM for quite awhile, I have no problem saying that Disney has a major issue with excess payroll, particularly overtime. Because of this, I imagine we'll probably be seeing more "special" rates that will only be bookable online.

2) By requiring a 1 night non-refundable deposit, they put an end to the many people who booked rooms at the AP rate, only to cancel them days before the deadline. Again, every one of these cancelled rooms are esentially lost revenue. They could have gone to another passholder or even to someone booking at rack rate during particularly busy seasons.

When you combine the payroll expenses with the revenue lost from the rooms, it greatly outweighs the money lost from the small number of people who won't book because they don't like the new system. Just as there are people who don't like BR & won't book online, I'm sure there are those who will now book BR because it is available online. (I became one of those people).

When I first became an AP holder, I too got all caught up in the waiting & hysteria that is so prevalent on these boards. I finally got sick of it because it just wasn't worth it. I wasn't an overly picky person who had to stay at a particular resort or particular room type, so I just said forget it & bought DVC.

Now that best rates are available online, I'll definately be booking our non-point nights through the BR site, as I'm sure many others will.

 

[Tink10]

Besides there is no correlation between Disney saving "a ton" of money and customer service.

Disney is a business, so the bottom line here is, in fact, revenue. I would imagine that CRO would be able to provide better customer service once people stop calling in for rates & codes. There should be shorter hold times & generally happier CM's.

 

[Aanna]

Just like ATM's saved banks oodles of money in teller costs, I'm sure that Disney's hoping to save oodles on customer service by funneling reservations through their website.

Of course, they better not skimp on their IT payroll or they're lose money on more Florida rate glitches.

As a member of the "general public" rather than a passholder, it seems to me it's mostly resistance to change as the issue. I'm still hoping lovely general public codes come out: that way all of us will benefit.

 

[Buddy Bear]

In order to understand the revenue situation, you need to look at more than just the number of rooms not booked by those who don't like the program. Disney's not stupid and I'm sure they ran surveys to see if passholders would be accepting of the program.

The small number of AP holders who will not book with BR is not a large amount of money lost. The Best Rate program was implemented to increase revenue in two ways:

1) To reduce payroll at CRO. The bulk of CRO's payroll hours & overtime came when AP rates or other major promos were released. Having been a CM for quite awhile, I have no problem saying that Disney has a major issue with excess payroll, particularly overtime. Because of this, I imagine we'll probably be seeing more "special" rates that will only be bookable online.

2) By requiring a 1 night non-refundable deposit, they put an end to the many people who booked rooms at the AP rate, only to cancel them days before the deadline. Again, every one of these cancelled rooms are esentially lost revenue. They could have gone to another passholder or even to someone booking at rack rate during particularly busy seasons.

When you combine the payroll expenses with the revenue lost from the rooms, it greatly outweighs the money lost from the small number of people who won't book because they don't like the new system. Just as there are people who don't like BR & won't book online, I'm sure there are those who will now book BR because it is available online. (I became one of those people).

When I first became an AP holder, I too got all caught up in the waiting & hysteria that is so prevalent on these boards. I finally got sick of it because it just wasn't worth it. I wasn't an overly picky person who had to stay at a particular resort or particular room type, so I just said forget it & bought DVC.

Now that best rates are available online, I'll definately be booking our non-point nights through the BR site, as I'm sure many others will.

Most of the statements you make are based on what is best for Disney and not necessarily what is best for the consumer. Many companies have to deal with high payroll, and overtime and Disney is no exception.

Cancellations are also part of the hotel/resort industry and I don't know of any other hotel/resort company that requires a non-refundable deposit.

Disney is often a forward-thinking company and on the cutting edge of many ideas, but being one of the first in the industry to require a non-refundable deposit is just a BAD decision.

Disney Cruise Line took a smarter approach in that they moved their cancellation dates out from in most cases 60 to 90 days to allow time to book the cancelled rooms.

From reading some of the responses I am absolutely "taken aback" that anyone would argue for this program. My current room rate at WL is $395; through the Best Rate program a concierge level room at AKL would be $457 (WL is not available). Could some please explaine to me how $457 is a BEST RATE?

 

[Brian Noble]

You keep saying it's not about the money, but you keep complaining about the rates you are seeing being too high. I'm also not sure why you are surprised that Disney is cutting its costs by placing more burdens on the consumer---this is what the modern stockholder demands, and every public company is beholden to the stockholders. Early returns suggest that enough of the consumers are willing to take on these burdens. Some of the consumers even like booking on line *better* than calling CRO, on CRO's schedule, with CRO's notorious hold times.

As for whether it's lost revenue or not: if it were the case that every night not booked by an AP holder (at a discounted rate) is replaced by a day guest paying rack rate (or even the AAA rate), then the Disney resorts come out ahead, rather than behind.

This is certainly possible. Except for DVC, there aren't *any* more on-property rooms in 2005 than there were in 2004. But, based on the reports we're getting from the travel industry, I'm guessing that more people will visit WDW in 2005 than in 2004, and they'll be paying a higher average room rate (because there have been fewer, less generous discounts).

The *rates* offered by the best rates program are different than you are used to because it would appear that they don't need to discount the rooms as heavily as they once did to fill them adequately.

The *terms* required by the best rates program I can't explain, and (for example) I'm not sure why AP holders should have stricter cancellation penalties than day guests (and I'm a day guest).

 

[Tink10]

Most of the statements you make are based on what is best for Disney and not necessarily what is best for the consumer. Many companies have to deal with high payroll, and overtime and Disney is no exception.

Cancellations are also part of the hotel/resort industry and I don't know of any other hotel/resort company that requires a non-refundable deposit.

Disney is often a forward-thinking company and on the cutting edge of many ideas, but being one of the first in the industry to require a non-refundable deposit is just a BAD decision.

Disney Cruise Line took a smarter approach in that they moved their cancellation dates out from in most cases 60 to 90 days to allow time to book the cancelled rooms.

From reading some of the responses I am absolutely "taken aback" that anyone would argue for this program. My current room rate at WL is $395; through the Best Rate program a concierge level room at AKL would be $457 (WL is not available). Could some please explaine to me how $457 is a BEST RATE?

Having been a manager with Disney for quite awhile, I'll admit that I'm looking at the BR program as something that will increase revenue. It's a smart business decision, plain & simple. Many companies also take measures to cut operating expenses, particularly payroll as often as they deem necessary. It's part of running a business.

If Disney has a perfectly reasonable solution to cut those expenses then they's be stupid not to implement it. The same holds true for the non-refundable deposits. As I've said before, many companies offer rooms at reduced rated that are totally nonrefundale, nonchangeable & are totally prepaid. If you doubt this, then check Starwood (Sheraton & Westin), Wyndham, and again, Expedia. It's becoming more & more common in the hotel industry to offer guests a lower rate if they'll commit.

I'm not a cruise fan, so I can't really comment on the cruise line's policies, but the "receive a discount" when you totally prepay is evident in the cruise industry as well. Holland America is the one biggie that comes to mind.

Speaking now as a consumer, I think the BR program is long overdue. Too many people abused the old AP policies and they are partially responsible for this change in the first place. The ones that were abusing it seem to be the ones who were originally the most vocal against it.

I completely agree with those who don't like the booking window and think that any leftover BR's should be made available to last minute travelers via the web or TA. But the non-refundable deposits should stay to keep those, who have no intention of even buying an AP or those who want to hold multiple rooms, from taking up the rooms that others would be happy to have.

As far as the availability of concierge via Best Rate, when I've looked, there has been very little, if any concierge availability. It appears that they're not offering many, if any concierge rooms with the discount.

 

[Buddy Bear]

You keep saying it's not about the money, but you keep complaining about the rates you are seeing being too high.

No, I said, "the issue is much more than just money". I continue to complain about the rates because they are insulting. They are supposed to be Best Rates and they are not even remotely "Good Rates" so the program is a misnomer at best.

 

[Tink10]

You keep saying it's not about the money, but you keep complaining about the rates you are seeing being too high. I'm also not sure why you are surprised that Disney is cutting its costs by placing more burdens on the consumer---this is what the modern stockholder demands, and every public company is beholden to the stockholders. Early returns suggest that enough of the consumers are willing to take on these burdens. Some of the consumers even like booking on line *better* than calling CRO, on CRO's schedule, with CRO's notorious hold times.

As for whether it's lost revenue or not: if it were the case that every night not booked by an AP holder (at a discounted rate) is replaced by a day guest paying rack rate (or even the AAA rate), then the Disney resorts come out ahead, rather than behind.

This is certainly possible. Except for DVC, there aren't *any* more on-property rooms in 2005 than there were in 2004. But, based on the reports we're getting from the travel industry, I'm guessing that more people will visit WDW in 2005 than in 2004, and they'll be paying a higher average room rate (because there have been fewer, less generous discounts).

The *rates* offered by the best rates program are different than you are used to because it would appear that they don't need to discount the rooms as heavily as they once did to fill them adequately.

The *terms* required by the best rates program I can't explain, and (for example) I'm not sure why AP holders should have stricter cancellation penalties than day guests (and I'm a day guest).

Those are great points Brian!

I have no doubt in my mind that the additional penalties with the BR stem from the large number of rooms cancelled by people booking at an AP rate. It is widely known on this, as well as other boards, that you can book the room at a very attractive discount and cancel at just about the last minute with no penalty whatsoever, for whatever reason.

The liklihood that Disney will fill the rooms cancelled at 4 - 5 days out is pretty slim, so they are left empty.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

I'd love it if Disney would put ALL their special offers online, including AAA packages, so I could book it myself. I don't feel I need the help of a CM at CRO or TA and would much rather handle it myself then go through them. As long as the website is working I'd love to know that everything was exactly as I wanted it without having to ask someone else.

I do think that one night nonrefundable deposit is pretty restrictive because anyone can have something happen that they could not foresee. It would be much better to have a set amount like $50 or so as some room deposits lost at $500+ would be tough to swallow! I also feel it probably came about because of abuses by people who held a ressie "just in case" and then cancelled on short notice. That's a shame. There are a lot of resorts/hotels in the travel industry that do that now though on their internet rates - totally nonrefundable. I'm thankful Disney hasn't started saying you have to book 3 nights min or something like that. Several hotels on beaches I looked at last summer had that restriction also.

 

[srfrgrl07]

No, I said, "the issue is much more than just money". I continue to complain about the rates because they are insulting. They are supposed to be Best Rates and they are not even remotely "Good Rates" so the program is a misnomer at best.

I don't mean to add to the debate here as it seems it keeps going back and forth between you and other posters..not many other people have stated their dislike for the program or have just given up in posting. But the "Best Rate" is the lowest available rate, hence the name. It's subject to opinion whether it's a "Good Rate" and it's not "The AP Rates of the Past" program. I'm sorry that you're dissastisfied with it, and I encourage you to continue to make that known, but I think it is true that more people are traveling and that impacts the way a tourism company chooses to operate it's business, whether the frequest vistors like it or not.

 

[kimmbagley]

Amen Sista!

 

[Cookie Princess]

We finally gave up hope and have downgraded from a deluxe to a mod with the AAA discount. The good news...we added the meal plan!

 

[RichieGraciemom]

cookie? when did you do this and when are you going? we have tried to get aaa at mod but they tell me none are left for what we need. nov 11=14. thanks.

 

[Cookie Princess]

cookie? when did you do this and when are you going? we have tried to get aaa at mod but they tell me none are left for what we need. nov 11=14. thanks.

I had to go through our local AAA agency to get this deal. I just booked with them yesterday afternoon. Good luck!

 

[ToyStory]

I booked my vacation through DU and was able to get POR during the same timeframe.

 

[Cookie Princess]

I booked my vacation through DU and was able to get POR during the same timeframe.

That is where we are staying as well! We will be easy to recognize, DS and I will be going full commando speed and DH will be dragging along way behind grumbling that his coffee hasn't kicked in yet. See you there...

 

[Minnie's Mate]

But the "Best Rate" is the lowest available rate, hence the name. It's subject to opinion whether it's a "Good Rate" and it's not "The AP Rates of the Past" program.

I for one stated earlier that this program is not for me. And yes, I have written WDW and let them know as well as voice my dislike for the program with the CM's I have spoken with on the phone.

However, you are incorrect that the "Best Rate" is the lowest available rate. It is touted as the lowest rate available to the general public. The AP rates have always been lower than the rates available to the general public, if by only $5-$10. The disclaimer clearly states that the "Best Rate" does not include group rates or special offerings, i.e. post card rates, etc. The AAA rate is a group rate, so there is no guarantee that it will be lower than that rate. You are correct that "it's not "The AP Rates of the Past" program. Quiet frankly, it stinks because of the non-refundable deposit. If not for that, and the poorer discounts, I wouldn't care so much.

We purchase AP's because we go so often and will continue to purchase them. It wasn't until we began using the AP discounts (discovered on these boards) that we started staying on Disney property. Now without them, we will have to go to staying off-property again. As Disney has tried to cut the discounts and recapture some of the money they thought they were loosing with the room discounts, they are just loosing more of my money to off-site property hotels. This might encourage me to start looking at discounts for hotels at Universal.

My eight-year-old son who loves dinosaurs has been begging to go to Universal Studios Islands of Adventures so he can go to Jurassic Park. I know once we do, he will want to go there on every trip. Then I will probably have to buy annual passes for Universal. If we get a good deal at one of the US hotels we might start spending one or more of our limited FL vacation days at US instead of WDW parks. This may start a new trend with my family. This would mean a lot of our souvenir money would start going toward US t-shirts and US polo shirts and toys instead of WDW souvenirs (We average $250-$300 per trip for clothes and 90% of our kids Christmas gifts). Then WDW has lost more than a few $$ on a few nights hotel room. One of the reasons WDW started the bus service was to reduce the need for guest to need rental cars. The idea was if guest didn't have rental cars, they wouldn't/couldn't leave WDW property and would spend all of their vacation $$ with WDW. Now that may change with their more loyal guest who have stayed on-property in the past. If you check my signature line below, you will see that my family has been one of the loyal families that has kept spending at WDW during the travel bust after 9/11 and during the last recession; all of those visits have been on-property when we could get AP discounts, others were off WDW property--usually at the Swan/Dolphin with teacher discount.

The Best Rate Program was a business decision just like many of the others that WDW has made over the last 3-4 years in an attempt to boost profits and like so many of the policies that we have seen come and go, only time will tell if this one will be another ill-conceived attempt to boost the bottom line and fall by the way side like many others or become a new permanent way of visiting the Mouse.