New career options for a teacher

[Gumbo4x4]

Part of the problem with teaching is everyone feels qualified to give their opinion on it. Look at the other thread about refusal rates. One poster flat out said that teachers should just teach and they should let business people run the schools. Sorry, but if you've never been a teacher you're not qualified to run a school.

I think that's true of many professions - look at lawyers, for example LOL

As for non-teachers running a school, that comment does have merit, particularly at the "building" level.

 

[undertheradar]

Part of the problem with teaching is everyone feels qualified to give their opinion on it. Look at the other thread about refusal rates. One poster flat out said that teachers should just teach and they should let business people run the schools. Sorry, but if you've never been a teacher you're not qualified to run a school.

I'm "that" poster and I stand behind it 100%!

 

[undertheradar]

I'm not sure how what you posted has anything to do with my post you quoted. I was simply pointing out what the payment method is legally considered to be.

I was simply trying to point out that they are exactly the same thing. If compensation for a 200 day contract is spread out into 12 monthly payments, it is the same as a 200 day contract being out in 9 monthly payments. You are still being paid the same wage, just receiving it in a different number of payments. It is simply perception and the idea that someone chooses to be compensated either way still means that they are earning "X" salary per contract year.

 

[undertheradar]

One other crazy thing. What other fields do you know of where so many offer to come in and help you with your work?

 

[kimmar067]

Yes, I know its "possible". But I find it improbable that all the teachers in the PP's area are working year round.

....gadzooks, I sure hope not!

 

[kimmar067]

Getting way off topic but it is not federal law to pay overtime to someone who works over 40 hours a week if they are in a position that is considered exempt.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

...sweat shops are exempt.

 

[cbellasmomma]

It is funny you should write this. It is right about this time of year I start envying all the teachers with summer break coming up. Just remember most other jobs have two to three weeks of vacation a year. So far this year I haven't taken a single vacation day and over the holidays I was only off a couple. I realize teaching is stressful, but most jobs are and no one I know will be retiring before age 60. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Teachers do not get paid for this "time off". And if you saw my husband's salary - and he went to law school so he is on the "higher" end - their salary doesn't compensate for these weeks either.

 

[ilovefh]

One other crazy thing. What other fields do you know of where so many offer to come in and help you with your work?

I've NEVER had anyone come in and help me with my work. Not one time in any district that I taught in.

And people don't "question" other professions quite as openly as they do teaching. Perhaps I just see it more because I am a teacher, but you don't see people telling doctors how to diagnose, you don't see people telling accountants how to use the tax laws, you don't see people telling lawyers how to use the laws to defend their clients. Sure people discuss their opinion on these things, but never to the level they do of teachers. These professions don't have politicians, who have never been in education, telling them how to do their job and proclaiming that "many doctors, lawyers and accountants are bad at their job." The problem is most people think they could just step into the classroom and teach. They go by the old adage of "those who can't, teach." This is just simply not true.

familyoffive I didn't realize it was you who stated that business people should run schools. If I had to guess I would bet that you've never been in the education field, and being a student does not count. Schools are not businesses. Teaching is not the same as running a business and no matter what the outside opinion is, it will never be like running a business.

 

[disykat]

Why does it matter whether you consider summer break "paid" or "unpaid"? Let's say a teacher is being paid $40K/year. You can look at that as being paid $40K to work 10 months and have two months off (unpaid), or they're being paid $40K including two months paid vacation. Either way, the teacher is working the same amount of hours and being paid the same amount. Arguing over whether summer is "paid" or "unpaid" is silly IMO. It all depends on how you look at it.

It matters because people resent teachers greatly because they are "Paid to sit at home all summer."

Very few of us here are arguing that teachers don't get some time off in the summers. I think there was only one whose contract was really long enough to equate to a normal work schedule. Many of us enjoy the time off, but we are not compensated for it monetarily. It is not silly to want people to know that. If you had two months without work or pay and had to listen about people griping about how you were being paid for it, I doubt it would seem silly to you. My guess is you would tell them the truth.

There are jobs where you get paid vacation and there are jobs where you only get paid for the days you work. Teachers are in the second category. There are lots of benefits to being a teacher, but vacation pay isn't one of them.

 

[sam_gordon]

It matters because people resent teachers greatly because they are "Paid to sit at home all summer."

Very few of us here are arguing that teachers don't get some time off in the summers. I think there was only one whose contract was really long enough to equate to a normal work schedule. Many of us enjoy the time off, but we are not compensated for it monetarily. It is not silly to want people to know that. If you had two months without work or pay and had to listen about people griping about how you were being paid for it, I doubt it would seem silly to you. My guess is you would tell them the truth.

There are jobs where you get paid vacation and there are jobs where you only get paid for the days you work. Teachers are in the second category. There are lots of benefits to being a teacher, but vacation pay isn't one of them.

Again, it all depends on how you look at it. You're paid $x to teach. You can look at it two different ways...

Option 1
You are being paid $x to work 10 months. This means you have two months unpaid vacation

Option 2
You are being paid $x to 'work' 12 months. 99.9% of your work happens within 10 months, but you're still being paid for 12. So you get 2 months 'paid' vacation.

Either way, you get $x for the year. This is similar to someone who is salaried. They don't punch a clock. They get paid $x/year regardless of how many hours/days they work.

Here's another lesson for you... you can't control other's reaction. If you want to convince them they're wrong, go right ahead. But it sounds like it's a losing battle. Why do you care what other people think?

 

[undertheradar]

I've NEVER had anyone come in and help me with my work. Not one time in any district that I taught in.

And people don't "question" other professions quite as openly as they do teaching. Perhaps I just see it more because I am a teacher, but you don't see people telling doctors how to diagnose, you don't see people telling accountants how to use the tax laws, you don't see people telling lawyers how to use the laws to defend their clients. Sure people discuss their opinion on these things, but never to the level they do of teachers. These professions don't have politicians, who have never been in education, telling them how to do their job and proclaiming that "many doctors, lawyers and accountants are bad at their job." The problem is most people think they could just step into the classroom and teach. They go by the old adage of "those who can't, teach." This is just simply not true.

familyoffive I didn't realize it was you who stated that business people should run schools. If I had to guess I would bet that you've never been in the education field, and being a student does not count. Schools are not businesses. Teaching is not the same as running a business and no matter what the outside opinion is, it will never be like running a business.

Every vocation gets "second guessed," you just notice it more in your field.

The rationale for having business people run schools is simple, you remove all emotion from the equation. The business people are given a set budget and have to best apply those dollars to satisfy the most amount of need. When you have educators running schools, they have so much passion that the realistic amount of dollars is lost in the need to satisfy everyone. Since there is not an endless supply of money, you need the business people to stretch the money the furthest.

 

[disykat]

Again, it all depends on how you look at it. You're paid $x to teach. You can look at it two different ways...

Option 1
You are being paid $x to work 10 months. This means you have two months unpaid vacation

Option 2
You are being paid $x to 'work' 12 months. 99.9% of your work happens within 10 months, but you're still being paid for 12. So you get 2 months 'paid' vacation.

Either way, you get $x for the year. This is similar to someone who is salaried. They don't punch a clock. They get paid $x/year regardless of how many hours/days they work.

Here's another lesson for you... you can't control other's reaction. If you want to convince them they're wrong, go right ahead. But it sounds like it's a losing battle. Why do you care what other people think?

We're having a conversation. If no one gave opinions we wouldn't have much of a discussion board would we? You asked a question and I answered. Now you chastise me for answering?

I'm not trying to convince anyone they're wrong. I'm stating facts. Teachers are paid based on the number of days they are required to work and don't get vacation pay. You can choose to pretend we get paid for not working in the summer, but that doesn't make it true.

I would not want to live a world where people stopped caring about the perceptions of others. I care what people think about my profession and I will defend it to people who think we get paid to sit home all summer.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

We're having a conversation. If no one gave opinions we wouldn't have much of a discussion board would we? You asked a question and I answered. Now you chastise me for answering?

I'm not trying to convince anyone they're wrong. I'm stating facts. Teachers are paid based on the number of days they are required to work and don't get vacation pay. You can choose to pretend we get paid for not working in the summer, but that doesn't make it true.

I would not want to live a world where people stopped caring about the perceptions of others. I care what people think about my profession and I will defend it to people who think we get paid to sit home all summer.

Other industries figure days off into the pay scale as well. Plenty of people have passed up better money for a job that has a more generous vacation package. Teaching just takes that notion to the extreme

The main difference is, as a teacher you have no say in when your days off will be, whereas that is less common in other industries.

 

[disykat]

I'm curious. Do people who work Monday through Friday with no work assigned to them on Saturdays and Sundays consider those days to be paid vacation time? Do they divide their salary by 7 and think they are making x amount each day they aren't working? OR - do they divide their weekly salary only by the days they work and consider the weekends unpaid? I would venture a guess that for most it's the latter - I know it always has been for me.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm curious. Do people who work Monday through Friday with no work assigned to them on Saturdays and Sundays consider those days to be paid vacation time? Do they divide their salary by 7 and think they are making x amount each day they aren't working? OR - do they divide their weekly salary only by the days they work and consider the weekends unpaid? I would venture a guess that for most it's the latter - I know it always has been for me.

I think most salaried people think in terms of how much they make "per year".

They are hired at an annual salary, with a specified # of days off.

As a teacher, you are hired at an annual salary with a specified number of days off.


Sounds like apples & apples to me

 

[declansdad]

Teachers are generally contracted for XXX number of days/year, in our area it's 230 days, which includes student contact days and workshop days before and during the school year. They get 2 personal days that are paid and no "vacation" days. Given that a 52 week year has 260 days....teachers really do not work fewer days then those in the corporate world with 10 paid holidays (Christmas, etc.) and 20+ days of PTO. I'll let you do the math on that.

I've looked at a few contracts for Minnesota teachers and haven't read any over 185 days. Where do you get those other days from?

 

[kimmar067]

Again, it all depends on how you look at it. You're paid $x to teach. You can look at it two different ways...

Option 1
You are being paid $x to work 10 months. This means you have two months unpaid vacation

Option 2
You are being paid $x to 'work' 12 months. 99.9% of your work happens within 10 months, but you're still being paid for 12. So you get 2 months 'paid' vacation.

....sorry, but that is incorrect. Every contract that I have personally seen, signed, known about, or was told about, states the 'Begin Date' [usually Sept 1 of that year] to the "End Date" [June 30 of the next year] [of course, I am speaking of a school year that goes from Sept-June. It's August-May in some states, or depends how the school year runs]. No contracts run for the entire year [ie: July 1, xxxx to June 30, xxxx], unless the district happens to BE a year-round school.

 

[declansdad]

Again, it all depends on how you look at it. You're paid $x to teach. You can look at it two different ways...

Option 1
You are being paid $x to work 10 months. This means you have two months unpaid vacation

Option 2
You are being paid $x to 'work' 12 months. 99.9% of your work happens within 10 months, but you're still being paid for 12. So you get 2 months 'paid' vacation.

Either way, you get $x for the year. This is similar to someone who is salaried. They don't punch a clock. They get paid $x/year regardless of how many hours/days they work.

Here's another lesson for you... you can't control other's reaction. If you want to convince them they're wrong, go right ahead. But it sounds like it's a losing battle. Why do you care what other people think?

In most cases, your option 2 is not how the contracts are written, it is option 1.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

I find it a little hard to believe that you could have hundreds of friends who have all shared such intimate details about their compensation with you.

Not every single one has but many have and most of them know what happens at their competitors plants. For non factory friends, I've known most of them since middle and high school. We are very open since it's pretty easy to find anything about anyone on the net.

 

[SandiR]

In my district which is on Long Island the average Teacher is making over $ 100,000 per year. They need this amount of salary to make it here which has a very high cost of living.

They are contracted for 182 days per year. High School and Middle School teachers are required to teach four classes per day which last about 52 minutes. They must get at least one free lunch period per day and have one period for classroom prep. One period must be spent providing some sort of supervision. One 30 minute session of morning extra help per week and One 30 minute session of afterschool extra help per week. Attend two parent teacher conferences nights. There is also a requirement for bus duty. The school schedule is 180 days in which 15 days per year are allocated for testing ( Midterms, finals, and State Regents Testing). They are allocated 7 days of Sick or Personal time. If not used this time can be saved and cashed out after a certain level is achieved or at termination/retirement. If the private Sector did this, they would go broke.

So the 182 days is contracted, but the Salary is an annual one, so yes the 10 week summer break is a paid vacation.

I don't know what district you're in, but average teacher salary in LI is less than 60k.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Public-School-Teacher-Salary-Details-Nassau-NY.aspx

Also, I'm pretty sure New York teachers can cash in banked sick days at only a fraction of their salary. I think my mother got 50 bucks for each day when she retired.

Why would this make the private sector broke?