New buses and ECVs

[SteveMouse]

A scooter should NEVER tip if properly secured. The restraints are built so that when used properly, even if the bus rolls the scooter should stay in place. Not doubting those of you who saw one start to tip. But that was not secured properly. Imagine if one tipped over on someone and they were hurt.

A huge issue is that there are great inconsistencies in wheelchair and ECV design with respect to where and how to tie down the equipment properly. If you've seen one ECV, you've only seen one- the next model may be completely different. And not to mention that there is often a person on the ECV as someone is trying to tie it down.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Been riding on new busses this week several times. Pictures show less seating on first level, but there’s actually about as much as old busses. The difference is that most of the lower seats are like the stadium or theater seats that automatically flip up when empty, on a spring of some sort. So, if there is not a wheelchair in the spot, you just pull down the individual seat to sit.

 

[lanejudy]

So, if there is not a wheelchair in the spot, you just pull down the individual seat to sit.

If all the wheelchair/ECV spots are in use, how many seats are available on the first level for others?

 

[HopperFan]

If all the wheelchair/ECV spots are in use, how many seats are available on the first level for others?

I rode them two weeks ago. There were no permanent seats. All folded up for the devices. When we got on as second party, all seats were folded up. Group in front of us immediately folded a section, most of us walked through to go up to second level. I looked down to see another group reach and the whole section folded down for them. I didn't watch the remaining seats get folded. Perhaps if wheelchairs sit in the two larger spots and the seats work independently you might get a seat folded. Even without devices there were less seats than the old buses.

Been riding on new busses this week several times. Pictures show less seating on first level, but there’s actually about as much as old busses. The difference is that most of the lower seats are like the stadium or theater seats that automatically flip up when empty, on a spring of some sort. So, if there is not a wheelchair in the spot, you just pull down the individual seat to sit.

Not true.

Old buses have parking for two devices forfeiting 6 seats, and if there are two devices on the bus there is still @ 9 stationary seats for other guests to sit.

New buses have parking for three devices and if there three devices on the bus there will be no seats for other guests to sit because all the seats on that level are fold up for the devices. Even with only two devices there would still be only 3-4 seats for other guests.

Old bus - that entire side to left of photo, and front ones on right are stationery.



New bus - none are stationery they fold up for the devices to fit.

 

[mamabunny]

I rode them two weeks ago. There were no permanent seats. All folded up for the devices. When we got on as second party, all seats were folded up. Group in front of us immediately folded a section, most of us walked through to go up to second level. I looked down to see another group reach and the whole section folded down for them. I didn't watch the remaining seats get folded. Perhaps if wheelchairs sit in the two larger spots and the seats work independently you might get a seat folded. Even without devices there were less seats than the old buses.



Not true.

Old buses have parking for two devices forfeiting 6 seats, and if there are two devices on the bus there is still @ 9 stationary seats for other guests to sit.

New buses have parking for three devices and if there three devices on the bus there will be no seats for other guests to sit because all the seats on that level are fold up for the devices. Even with only two devices there would still be only 3-4 seats for other guests.

Old bus - that entire side to left of photo, and front ones on right are stationery.

View attachment 840823

New bus - none are stationery they fold up for the devices to fit.

View attachment 840825

Did you happen to observe anyone using the new "squeezers"? (sorry, I know they have a proper name, it's just... that's what they do to you & your device ) I'm really curious about how they work; if they are actually fast in real world applications, and if they hold mobility devices snugly, but without causing damage.

 

[SueM in MN]

Did you happen to observe anyone using the new "squeezers"? (sorry, I know they have a proper name, it's just... that's what they do to you & your device ) I'm really curious about how they work; if they are actually fast in real world applications, and if they hold mobility devices snugly, but without causing damage.

We haven't been to WDW yet to see them, but they are in use in city transit in buses. From the videos I've seen, they appear to work well for power wheelchairs and ECVs. One of the issues with ECVs is that they tend to tip over sideways, even if correctly tied down - especially the 3 wheeled ones. The areas they can be tied down on are relatively low.
We won't be able to use the new restraint devices with our daughter's manual wheelchair. Hers is transit ready and crash tested; the documentation says it MUST be forward facing.

 

[queeny]

In reading about the new buses, and the fact that there will be fewer seats, meaning more people will have to stand, I was reminded of something-it's far less likely that ECV riders will be given the option to transfer to a seat on any bus. I can remember, just a few years ago, that there was a sign on the buses reminding ECV riders that "Please transfer to a seat-It is NOT safe to ride on your ECV while on the bus." Yet, in all my trips on buses at WDW, even though they were all the "old" style buses, I noted that the signs about Safety with ECV riders were gone, and not one bus driver gave me the option to transfer to a seat. They just immediately strapped the seat belt on. So apparently it's now safe for ECV riders to remain on their ECVs on buses? Maybe the new buses have enhanced safety features, but all buses are now deemed safer?

Most definitely not safe, and I speak from experience!

I'm currently at WDW and last week I was on one of their transport buses (scooter strapped in and seat belt on me), as it turned a corner the entire scooter fell over with me still strapped to it!!

The straps didn't hold it down and the seatbelt didn't lock meaning I ended up stuck on my side in the scooter with the seatbelt still all the way round me!

I'm not a particularly large lady, and I wasn't leaning or doing anything else to cause it to happen. One minute I was scrolling on Facebook with my hands and phone on my lap and the next minute I'm slamming into the ground!

I ended up at urgent care needing xrays due to the bruising across my shoulder and elbow (at my own cost), and after a week I still have no sign of reimbursement from WDW guest claims

Since then I have told them on every bus they I WILL be transferring out of the scooter, I refuse to stay in one now

 

[queeny]

Good point @Simba's Mom.

Based on the way the new restraint system works, I may be willing to give it a try on my next trip. That's not until 2025, so there's plenty of time to hear feedback on how well the new system works for passengers staying in their ECV's. However, I have no qualms about insisting on transferring to a seat if I don't feel safe.

Please don't see my reply further down about what happened with me and my ECV on a WDW bus last week! It's just not worth the risk I have ended up with bad bruising, unable to use my right arm (which is usually my only usable one) and we lost 4 days in parks because I couldn't do anything

 

[SueM in MN]

Most definitely not safe, and I speak from experience!

I'm currently at WDW and last week I was on one of their transport buses (scooter strapped in and seat belt on me), as it turned a corner the entire scooter fell over with me still strapped to it!!

The straps didn't hold it down and the seatbelt didn't lock meaning I ended up stuck on my side in the scooter with the seatbelt still all the way round me!

I'm not a particularly large lady, and I wasn't leaning or doing anything else to cause it to happen. One minute I was scrolling on Facebook with my hands and phone on my lap and the next minute I'm slamming into the ground!

I ended up at urgent care needing xrays due to the bruising across my shoulder and elbow (at my own cost), and after a week I still have no sign of reimbursement from WDW guest claims

Since then I have told them on every bus they I WILL be transferring out of the scooter, I refuse to stay in one now

Sorry that happened to you! Must have been very scary!
I'm curious if it was a 3 or 4 wheel scooter? I have seen some reports over the years of 3 wheel scooters tipping over, but not 4 wheeled ones.
No matter how well a scooter is tied down, they are not designed for that and don't have specific spots to tie them down, so it's never going to be fully secure.
I'm always happy to see someone transfer off of a scooter - much safer

 

[queeny]

Sorry that happened to you! Must have been very scary!
I'm curious if it was a 3 or 4 wheel scooter? I have seen some reports over the years of 3 wheel scooters tipping over, but not 4 wheeled ones.
No matter how well a scooter is tied down, they are not designed for that and don't have specific spots to tie them down, so it's never going to be fully secure.
I'm always happy to see someone transfer off of a scooter - much safer

 

[queeny]

It was very scary. My daughter is only 7 and was screaming as my husband tried to lift the whole scooter with me in it as the belt release was under me. It was a 3 wheeler, however I have never had to use one before (I use a walking stick for shorter distances at home and I drive) so was going under the guidance of the bus drivers. Not a single one even suggested transferring out, and actually since then I have had several look confused when I have said that I do not want to stay in it for the journey

 

[MinnieMSue]

It was very scary. My daughter is only 7 and was screaming as my husband tried to lift the whole scooter with me in it as the belt release was under me. It was a 3 wheeler, however I have never had to use one before (I use a walking stick for shorter distances at home and I drive) so was going under the guidance of the bus drivers. Not a single one even suggested transferring out, and actually since then I have had several look confused when I have said that I do not want to stay in it for the journey

I’m so sorry that happened to you. I did notice when we were there last week most of the scooter riders transferred to seats. I saw several walking up the ramp with their cane or assist from family and the bus drivers taking the scooter up. I was actually surprised at how many did this. I will add I saw a few scooters exit and many did not go straight down the ramp and turned too soon. Most drivers noticed and told them to straighten it out until they were off the ramp. I was glad none tipped over on the ramp because of this.

 

[Groot]

A few years ago (before I upgraded to a powerchair), I was sitting in my scooter on the bus and I thought the driver had strapped the back of the scooter down too, but as soon as the bus made its first turn, the scooter got tipped over and I fell over onto my left side (I was on the right hand scooter spot),and it would’ve pinned my arm down if it wasn’t for a folded up stroller that was next to me. (The bus was at standing room only, but not enough to be considered a “Sardine Bus”). Some bystanders helped me out and got the scooter back right side up while the driver (who thankfully was pulled over to the shoulder) placed the straps back on and this time everyone was eagle-eyed to make sure that the back was tied down too.

 

[queeny]

A few years ago (before I upgraded to a powerchair), I was sitting in my scooter on the bus and I thought the driver had strapped the back of the scooter down too, but as soon as the bus made its first turn, the scooter got tipped over and I fell over onto my left side (I was on the right hand scooter spot),and it would’ve pinned my arm down if it wasn’t for a folded up stroller that was next to me. (The bus was at standing room only, but not enough to be considered a “Sardine Bus”). Some bystanders helped me out and got the scooter back right side up while the driver (who thankfully was pulled over to the shoulder) placed the straps back on and this time everyone was eagle-eyed to make sure that the back was tied down too.

We were very lucky that there was only 1 other family on the bus at the time! I dread to think what would have happened if a child had been standing next to me when the scooter tipped! I was also lucky that I had my arms inside the arm rests at the time because I was scrolling Facebook on my phone, else it could have easily pinned my arm

 

[LoveToDisney]

I always hold onto the folded up ADA seats next to me when I stay on my scooter strapped into a bus. There was a lady that started to tip on a large scooter ahead of me once before my husband caught her. I’m always alert when the bus goes around a corner because of that. I haven’t been in the new bus “reverse” ADA locations yet so not sure how stable those are.

 

[Evita_W]

Most definitely not safe, and I speak from experience!

I'm currently at WDW and last week I was on one of their transport buses (scooter strapped in and seat belt on me), as it turned a corner the entire scooter fell over with me still strapped to it!!

The straps didn't hold it down and the seatbelt didn't lock meaning I ended up stuck on my side in the scooter with the seatbelt still all the way round me!

I'm not a particularly large lady, and I wasn't leaning or doing anything else to cause it to happen. One minute I was scrolling on Facebook with my hands and phone on my lap and the next minute I'm slamming into the ground!

I ended up at urgent care needing xrays due to the bruising across my shoulder and elbow (at my own cost), and after a week I still have no sign of reimbursement from WDW guest claims

Since then I have told them on every bus they I WILL be transferring out of the scooter, I refuse to stay in one now

Wow, you got lucky at Disneyland a friend was on the Toy Story bus and the driver didn't properly strip her scooter down with her on it. It fell over on a turn and broke her femur. DH won't stay on either.

 

[SueM in MN]

This picture is from the Kilimanjaro Safari, which has tie down hooks similar to the buses. I put it here for illustration.
My daughter's power and manual wheelchairs both are designed for transit with tie down loops on the front and back. Green circle on the photo shows one of the back ones; there is one on each side, back and front. I marked them with bright colored tape, so I can tell the driver to look for that. Most are appreciative.
Both her wheelchairs are even crash tested. Since she can't stand or sit securely on a bus seat, she does stay in her wheelchair because it's safer for her situation.

I watch the tie down like a hawk because I have occasionally found the driver to be attaching the hooks someplace they shouldn't be - for example on the rigidizer bar or canes marked with red X. Pretty much always, the driver is happy when I point it out.
We had one time when the driver refused; he argued that doing it up higher was 'safer' and refused to move it. I said if he wasn't going to move it to the correct spot, he needed to let us off the bus.
We ended up getting off his bus and calling Transportation to put in a complaint

 

[voxparse]

This picture is from the Kilimanjaro Safari, which has tie down hooks similar to the buses. I put it here for illustration.
My daughter's power and manual wheelchairs both are designed for transit with tie down loops on the front and back. Green circle on the photo shows one of the back ones; there is one on each side, back and front. I marked them with bright colored tape, so I can tell the driver to look for that. Most are appreciative.
Both her wheelchairs are even crash tested. Since she can't stand or sit securely on a bus seat, she does stay in her wheelchair because it's safer for her situation.

I watch the tie down like a hawk because I have occasionally found the driver to be attaching the hooks someplace they shouldn't be - for example on the rigidizer bar or canes marked with red X. Pretty much always, the driver is happy when I point it out.
We had one time when the driver refused; he argued that doing it up higher was 'safer' and refused to move it. I said if he wasn't going to move it to the correct spot, he needed to let us off the bus.
We ended up getting off his bus and calling Transportation to put in a complaintView attachment 887128

I don't have specific tie downs on my chair but I micromanage the driver through the whole tie down process. Luckily I have long arms and can do most of the tie down myself. If you don't tell them/show them where to tie your chair down they will attach it in complete insane places (like our $500+ spinergys which I also see on your daughters chair). I feel for the drivers to some extent. Every chair is so different they can't possibly know them all but also there are some common sense places where tie downs should never go. I also feel for folks with ECVs as many are relatively new to their mobility aid (keep in mind I've had a wheelchair for over 40 years now) and a lot of this stuff is learned the hard way.

 

[Groot]

This picture is from the Kilimanjaro Safari, which has tie down hooks similar to the buses. I put it here for illustration.
My daughter's power and manual wheelchairs both are designed for transit with tie down loops on the front and back. Green circle on the photo shows one of the back ones; there is one on each side, back and front. I marked them with bright colored tape, so I can tell the driver to look for that. Most are appreciative.
Both her wheelchairs are even crash tested. Since she can't stand or sit securely on a bus seat, she does stay in her wheelchair because it's safer for her situation.

I watch the tie down like a hawk because I have occasionally found the driver to be attaching the hooks someplace they shouldn't be - for example on the rigidizer bar or canes marked with red X. Pretty much always, the driver is happy when I point it out.
We had one time when the driver refused; he argued that doing it up higher was 'safer' and refused to move it. I said if he wasn't going to move it to the correct spot, he needed to let us off the bus.
We ended up getting off his bus and calling Transportation to put in a complaintView attachment 887128

You’d think the drivers would be trained to look for/ask where the the tie down points are (if equipped). I think that they’re starting to realize that some chairs DO have this feature because in March some drivers asked if my powerchair had the hooks (it doesn’t, but when I get my custom manual that I recently got approved for it’ll more than likely have a transit system on it.)

 

[SueM in MN]

You’d think the drivers would be trained to look for/ask where the the tie down points are (if equipped). I think that they’re starting to realize that some chairs DO have this feature because in March some drivers asked if my powerchair had the hooks (it doesn’t, but when I get my custom manual that I recently got approved for it’ll more than likely have a transit system on it.)

Custom power chairs do have tiedowns installed as part of the chair since they don't fold or break down for transit. The foldable chairs and most of the more generic power chairs don't have them installed because they are not designed to be ridden on during transit.

For custom manual chairs, it's usually an extra cost option. Many who can transfer out prefer not to spend the extra