new blog: Guest Assistance Cards Vs. FastPass+

[SueM in MN]

I think that the title of this blog is causing much of the discussion/concern as well as some of the content - I mean "let the battle begin"?
I found out abou the blog when I saw a link posted here and agree with the other posters on this thread that there are many problems with it.

First, Disneyland is a much different place than DisneyWorld.
Many of the attractions at Disneyland are NOT accessible thru the regular line.
At WDW, most attractions are.

Second, there is not one ‘thing’ that Guest Assistance Cards do – there are different stamps put on the card to meet the needs of the person. In some cases, it is to wait in a different area. In some cases, it is to use the ‘wheelchair entrance’.
At WDW, that usually means the regular line. There is sometimes a different boarding area, but the bypass that goes there is usually very close to the regular boarding area.
For example, at Buzz Lightyear, the whole line is accessible, but at the boarding area, walking guests make a 180 degree turn to get into their ride car. When guests who can’t board in the regular boarding area get there, they are directed straight ahead down a hallway to the exit to board.

A lot of people report what they experience without understanding it.
First example: my family includes a child using a wheelchair who has multiple disabilities and can’t walk. We were in the regular line at Mission Space, and after getting deeper into the building, we were right behind a person who was using an ECV. She started talking to us, then showed us her GAC and said we should get one for our DD because she had used it and “I got right into this line without waiting at all.”
Well, so did we. The standby line we were in had a 10 minute posted wait and we basically walked right in.
We saw the same woman multiple times at Epcot that day and at other parks during our trip. She made multiple comments to us about how glad she was to see we had gotten a GAC and how it was saving do much time. ONLY THING is – we had not used a GAC on any of those times. The standby waits were short and what she took as a short wait because of the GAC was just a short wait. PERIOD.

Second example: I’ve seen threads where people posted they used a special door or line to get into a show (like Mickey’s Philharmagic , Tiki Birds, Monsters, Inc). They reported they went past other guests who were waiting and went to the front of the line. The parts they did not understand was that they were getting into the same show as those other guests and WHY they were waiting there (because there are limited numbers of wheelchair spots or limited numbers of guests with special needs allowed in at one time).
So, again, they thought they had an advantage they really did not have and almost all of their posts about how the GAC gave them ‘Front of the Line’ access were things like that where their perception was not fact.

Third example: I have seen people reports that they got into the ‘special line’ at Small World and because the line is shorter, they felt they did not wait as long as they would have otherwise. Well, that line may be less people, but our experience is that the wait is usually longer. In fact, on one of our last trips, my husband got in that line with DD while I was doing something else. I know when they got in line because he texted me. I was going to join them later, but that area was crowded and I could not get thru, so I got in the regular line. They ended up being loaded a few boats ahead of me (if I remember right, 3 boats). I had waited 20 minutes before boarding. They had already been in line 25 minutes before I got into line, so they waited a bit less than 25 minutes longer than me.

Someone posted either that they were asking at Jungle Cruise where to park the wheelchair and were directed to go into a wheelchair entrance, which bypassed part of the lines. How this ride works is that there is a parking area for wheelchairs and ECVs to the left of the regular line and boarding area. Guests who are able to walk in the line are usually ‘inserted’ back into the regular line at that point. They might think they got ahead, but there were guests who were moving ahead in line while they were waiting for the CM to instruct them, moving the wheelchair/ECV, etc, so by the time they actually get into the line, they will usually be close to where they would have been otherwise ( we know because we have watched). People like my DD, who can’t walk, don’t get on right away. We have to wait for the special wheelchair boat. Some wait in their wheelchair in the same area where we do, but don’t board right away on the next boat that comes.

We usually are aware of what the wait in the standby line is and when there is a separate boarding area for users with disabilities, we often se people who were in line just ahead of us getting off while we are still waiting at the exit to board.
People who have really been watching how their wait relates to the wait in the regular line often find their wait might be less about 25 % of the time, longer 25% of the time and the same 50%.

 

[cmwade77]

Thank you for posting that, I wish that the author of the blog would at least edit it, perhaps you can encourage this?

 

[Friendly Frog]

...Disneyland has never had special viewing areas for the fireworks for them, mostly due to a lack of space..

While I can understand everything you said and can agree with the most of the logic, I absolutely disagree with the not space for fireworks viewing statement.

If there is space for average people, or space for VIP's, there is space for wheelchair viewing. All it takes is a rope, If all the space is not filled at 10 mins before show time you open the area to anyone. What is does take is the decision that it is important enough to assign someone to set it up and monitor it.

 

[cmwade77]

While I can understand everything you said and can agree with the most of the logic, I absolutely disagree with the not space for fireworks viewing statement.

If there is space for average people, or space for VIP's, there is space for wheelchair viewing. All it takes is a rope, If all the space is not filled at 10 mins before show time you open the area to anyone. What is does take is the decision that it is important enough to assign someone to set it up and monitor it.

The VIP viewing is on the Main Street train station, which is not accessible. They do sometimes have an overflow in the hub, but that wouldn't work for those in wheelchairs, as it is standing in front there. The sides of the hub are used for exiting in an emergency, in front of the hub is not accessible with people siting and since they now put a walkway in front if there, it would be obstructed as well. Pretty much all of Main Street would have similar issues.

So, the question becomes where to put it? My opinion is to make the Main Street station accessible, which could be done with some minimal modifications. They could replace one of the souvenir shop kiosks with a lift, probably wouldn't even take the full space for example. Then they could use that space for wheelchair viewing.

But my point remains that it wasn't George Kalagridi's doing, he has actually done quite a bit to help those of us who truly do need GACs. Yes, there have have been some pains along the way, but he is extremely responsive to comments from the public. He also has a very hands on approach to running the parks, which should be interesting at Disney World.

So, I don't see this as a bad move for Disney World and GACs, but it could be a positive one.

 

[Friendly Frog]

The VIP viewing is on the Main Street train station, which is not accessible. They do sometimes have an overflow in the hub, but that wouldn't work for those in wheelchairs, as it is standing in front there. The sides of the hub are used for exiting in an emergency, in front of the hub is not accessible with people siting and since they now put a walkway in front if there, it would be obstructed as well. Pretty much all of Main Street would have similar issues.

So, the question becomes where to put it? My opinion is to make the Main Street station accessible, which could be done with some minimal modifications. They could replace one of the souvenir shop kiosks with a lift, probably wouldn't even take the full space for example. Then they could use that space for wheelchair viewing.

But my point remains that it wasn't George Kalagridi's doing, he has actually done quite a bit to help those of us who truly do need GACs. Yes, there have have been some pains along the way, but he is extremely responsive to comments from the public. He also has a very hands on approach to running the parks, which should be interesting at Disney World.

So, I don't see this as a bad move for Disney World and GACs, but it could be a positive one.

You seem to have a better understanding of the person than I do. Certainly what you have said sounds very positive! My comments were mostly because of my personal experience at DL a few years back. ( first and only visit) I viewed the Halloween show in an area in front of the castle that could have been roped off and had a view, but instead there was no place that was not just a sea of butts, very disappointing and different than WDW. Also it seemed that the cast members had a very different attitude towards ECV users than WDW has. (enough said) I guess I attributed the cast member attitude to the park leadership. Not sure why the difference now but this is getting off topic. I fell much better about Mr. Kalagridi's coming now, thank you.

 

[hsmamainva]

A lightbulb went on when I read the post above ^^ about the handicapped license plates / holders.

In order to receive one, you need to have the application signed by a doctor before you take it / send it to the DMV.

How is the DMV not violating the law by asking for a doctor's signature, but Disney would be violating the law by asking for a doctor's note?

I don't get it??

I'd have no problem bringing a note. I'd have no problem with putting a picture on the GAC card. That way, it would keep people from handing it out to every member of their party, just to ride the ride faster.

Which has never happened to us during 2 visits! I don't get that either? We've never been ushered to the front of the line with our GAC card. Maybe one of the problems is that some CMs know how to use them and some don't?

 

[Kellykins1218]

I was really surprised that this thread was started by a moderator considering the title. I's like they are encouraging people to argue.

 

[ttintagel]

Honestly, I think the butthurt able-bodied people complaining about the wait at Radiator Springs Racers are overlooking the obvious.

It's a relatively slow-loading attraction.
It's new and extremely popular.

There are absolutely GOING to be long waits. No way around it.

 

[cmwade77]

A lightbulb went on when I read the post above ^^ about the handicapped license plates / holders.

In order to receive one, you need to have the application signed by a doctor before you take it / send it to the DMV.

How is the DMV not violating the law by asking for a doctor's signature, but Disney would be violating the law by asking for a doctor's note?

I don't get it??

I'd have no problem bringing a note. I'd have no problem with putting a picture on the GAC card. That way, it would keep people from handing it out to every member of their party, just to ride the ride faster.

Which has never happened to us during 2 visits! I don't get that either? We've never been ushered to the front of the line with our GAC card. Maybe one of the problems is that some CMs know how to use them and some don't?

The reason the DMV is not breaking the law, is you are getting a benefit not available to others, I.e. closer parking, not having to pay at parking meters, not having time limits (I.e. 30 minutes or less) enforced.

GACs are to provide those who can't us the regular queues for various reasons with equal access, not providing an additional benefit. This is why they can't ask for proof.

 

[WLodgeLizard]

A lightbulb went on when I read the post above ^^ about the handicapped license plates / holders.

In order to receive one, you need to have the application signed by a doctor before you take it / send it to the DMV.

How is the DMV not violating the law by asking for a doctor's signature, but Disney would be violating the law by asking for a doctor's note?

I don't get it??

I'd have no problem bringing a note. I'd have no problem with putting a picture on the GAC card. That way, it would keep people from handing it out to every member of their party, just to ride the ride faster.

Which has never happened to us during 2 visits! I don't get that either? We've never been ushered to the front of the line with our GAC card. Maybe one of the problems is that some CMs know how to use them and some don't?

Completely agree. There are other examples where a doctor's note is required. Is MAW breaking the law by requiring a Doctor to sign off? The airlines require a doctor's note in order to bring oxygen.

We would happily bring a doctor's note as well. It wouldn't be perfect, but would surely reduce some of the abuse.

 

[cmwade77]

You seem to have a better understanding of the person than I do. Certainly what you have said sounds very positive! My comments were mostly because of my personal experience at DL a few years back. ( first and only visit) I viewed the Halloween show in an area in front of the castle that could have been roped off and had a view, but instead there was no place that was not just a sea of butts, very disappointing and different than WDW. Also it seemed that the cast members had a very different attitude towards ECV users than WDW has. (enough said) I guess I attributed the cast member attitude to the park leadership. Not sure why the difference now but this is getting off topic. I fell much better about Mr. Kalagridi's coming now, thank you.

The Halloween fireworks could indeed have an area roped off and the last time I went, they did indeed do so. They have a much different traffic flow pattern.

I only have a better understanding because we live 15 minutes from Disneyland and go frequently.

Kalagridi has also had to fight to get some of his changes through and a few years ago was when Florida wanted to virtually eliminate all GACs with anything but the no stairs stamp. This Florida dictating this to Disneyland, he helped us fight back on that one after several people who needed a different stamp contacted him and explained why other stamps were needed. So, I definitely have a decent opinion of him. I am actually nervous about AK Vice President coming here and what it might mean for GACs.

As for how ECVs are viewed, you must have just run into some bad CMs, most are very kind about it, I have even seen some walk in front of them in crowded situations to allow them to keep moving.

The biggest problem for ECVs here is the design of certain attractions don't let them go through the same way. For example, Star Tours, they can't even use the elevator because the ramps to te ride vehicles are made out of plywood. So, since they have to use the exit, they are given return time passes. This one is the fault of the imagineers who didn't replace the ramps during the redesign.

 

[Willow1213]

After using a GAC at both DL and WDW I do see a management change helping out with GAC abuse at WDW.

When we were at DL, the GAC card stamps were different than WDW, and for our needs, it worked much better. The stamp at DL specified NO STAIRS. Even at WDW, even though we have a GAC card with a generic stamp, the CMs still don't know what my husband needs. I have to be diligent and tell them we need w/c type entrance. This is especially true at Toy Story Mania with a large flight of stairs.

Regardless, the abuse is causing those that do need GACs to have a harder time obtaining them. I had to flat out argue with a CM at MK last time. She insisted that there was only one attraction that had stairs (Swiss Family). I reminded her that there were plenty of others before she finally relented and gave us the pass.

I hope the numbers of stares, eye rolls, and rude comments can get cut down in any way possible. I love Disney, and with an invisible disability a GAC is 100% necessary for us to tour comfortably. I just hope ANY change will help us all.

 

[North of Mouse]

The reason the DMV is not breaking the law, is you are getting a benefit not available to others, I.e. closer parking, not having to pay at parking meters, not having time limits (I.e. 30 minutes or less) enforced.

GACs are to provide those who can't us the regular queues for various reasons with equal access, not providing an additional benefit. This is why they can't ask for proof.

I totally disagree with this answer. GACs *are* providing a *benefit* not available to mainstream. Now, should they have them, *YES*, but it is NOT available to everyone.

Should handicapped parking be available to those that need it, *YES*, but they DO need a letter from Dr.

A letter *should* be needed for a GAC at Disney also. It doesn't have to note specifics, but a general reason why it's needed. That's only fair to *everyone*. If needing to show a GAC to get different access does not bother a person needing it, why should showing a letter at GS's bother them?

Also, to PP stating that you don't see GAC users complaining about abusers, like general users, why should they? It doesn't impact them the same.

I HAVE no issue with true GAC holders, it's how easily available to abusers that really steams me. And yes, there are plenty of them. Those that haven't seen it have not been impacted with them yet. Even CM's will tell you firsthand (note post # 18) that it happens quite frequently.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Also, to PP stating that you don't see GAC users complaining about abusers, like general users, why should they? It doesn't impact them the same.

I HAVE no issue with true GAC holders, it's how easily available to abusers that really steams me. And yes, there are plenty of them. Those that haven't seen it have not been impacted with them yet. Even CM's will tell you firsthand (note post # 18) that it happens quite frequently.

GAC users are MORE impacted by abusers than non-users. If there are more people in the accessible queue then while that hardly impacts regular guests, the guests in that queue are significantly delayed. If a quiet area has more people then guests in that area will find it louder and harder to cope in there while guest in the regular areas are not impacted at all. The more perception of abuse there is, the more hostility is directed towards those of us who use GACs from both CMs and other guests. How does all of this not impact GAC users more than typical guests?

How is everybody determining this rampant abuse? I've used a GAC for my DD15 for every trip we've taken since 2007. Anybody we've spoken with in any of the alternate waiting areas has been in a similar situation to us and has needed the accomodation in order to be able to access the attraction. On what are all these people basing this "knowledge" of abuse? Looking at my DD15, you wouldn't necessarily know that she needs the GAC. I guess many people assume we're abusers?

 

[peemagg]

I totally disagree with this answer. GACs *are* providing a *benefit* not available to mainstream. Now, should they have them, *YES*, but it is NOT available to everyone.

Should handicapped parking be available to those that need it, *YES*, but they DO need a letter from Dr.

A letter *should* be needed for a GAC at Disney also. It doesn't have to note specifics, but a general reason why it's needed. That's only fair to *everyone*. If needing to show a GAC to get different access does not bother a person needing it, why should showing a letter at GS's bother them?

Also, to PP stating that you don't see GAC users complaining about abusers, like general users, why should they? It doesn't impact them the same.

I HAVE no issue with true GAC holders, it's how easily available to abusers that really steams me. And yes, there are plenty of them. Those that haven't seen it have not been impacted with them yet. Even CM's will tell you firsthand (note post # 18) that it happens quite frequently.

The only problem with getting a Dr's note is that there are many who will do just that even though they have no real need. There are doctors out there that will make up excuses for their patients when they hear they are going to Disney. I have seen on these boards people report going to the pediatrician with perfectly healthy kids and the doctor writing a letter saying that one of the kids has Autism or something, and telling them that it will allow them to by pass the lines.

There are also doctors out there that will give any one who asks for a handicapped sticker one. They don't care that they are hurting those who need it. Why? Because it is no skin off their nose. They do not have to verify that what they said was true and there is no consequence for them if it isn't. The DMV aren't checking the actual need by looking at peoples medical records, they are going by the signature of the doctor and hoping that the doctor is being honest. There was even a article this summer about this very topic in our local paper this summer and how no one checks to see if the need is still actually still there for someone to be using the handicapped sticker. They also talked about how the DMV reissues the tags without checking the need is still there.

I totally agree that there should be some sort of ID for the GAC to be used to prove that the GAC is for the person trying to use it. There should be a picture of the person who the GAC is for on the GAC. That would eliminate people taking and using a GAC when the person who it is for is not riding.

I don't think that there is anyway to get around people abusing anything. If someone "thinks" that they may gain some sort of advantage, they will figure out a way to scam the system whether it is a GAC or anything else! I have family members who do just that. It is really a matter of peoples integrity. There are people out there who don't have enough integrity to think about how their actions of some perceived advantage affect those who need that certain accommodation.

 

[ttintagel]

How is everybody determining this rampant abuse? I've used a GAC for my DD15 for every trip we've taken since 2007. Anybody we've spoken with in any of the alternate waiting areas has been in a similar situation to us and has needed the accomodation in order to be able to access the attraction. On what are all these people basing this "knowledge" of abuse? Looking at my DD15, you wouldn't necessarily know that she needs the GAC. I guess many people assume we're abusers?

THANK YOU.

The answer is, of course, people are pulling it out of thin air and their own paranoia. It seems like a lot of people without disabilities in the family believe that if you don't look like Captain Pike from Star Trek then you CLEARLY must be faking something.

"I saw a guy use a wheelchair some of the time and walk some of the time. ABUSE!" (Welcome to the enchanting world of arthritis in the spine.)

"I heard a guy requesting a GAC because of his neurological condition, and he stumbled over some of the words! FAKER!" (Gee, could the stumbling be a symptom of his neurological condition?)

"There were more than a couple of people at the accessible entrance! Come on, there can't really be THAT many people with disabilities! RAMPANT WIDESPREAD OBVIOUS UNDENIABLE FLAGRANT ABUSE!" (WDW is a popular vacation spot for PWD because they know WDW will do their best to give them access, which leads to a higher concentration than in the general public. Also, many people who don't need assistance at home because they can tailor their lives, homes, and workplaces around their disability can't do the same at WDW.)

 

[Piper]

THANK YOU.

The answer is, of course, people are pulling it out of thin air and their own paranoia. It seems like a lot of people without disabilities in the family believe that if you don't look like Captain Pike from Star Trek then you CLEARLY must be faking something.

"I saw a guy use a wheelchair some of the time and walk some of the time. ABUSE!" (Welcome to the enchanting world of arthritis in the spine.)

"I heard a guy requesting a GAC because of his neurological condition, and he stumbled over some of the words! FAKER!" (Gee, could the stumbling be a symptom of his neurological condition?)

"There were more than a couple of people at the accessible entrance! Come on, there can't really be THAT many people with disabilities! RAMPANT WIDESPREAD OBVIOUS UNDENIABLE FLAGRANT ABUSE!" (WDW is a popular vacation spot for PWD because they know WDW will do their best to give them access, which leads to a higher concentration than in the general public. Also, many people who don't need assistance at home because they can tailor their lives, homes, and workplaces around their disability can't do the same at WDW.)

We really really need a LIKE button!

 

[belle032]

THANK YOU.

The answer is, of course, people are pulling it out of thin air and their own paranoia. It seems like a lot of people without disabilities in the family believe that if you don't look like Captain Pike from Star Trek then you CLEARLY must be faking something.

"I saw a guy use a wheelchair some of the time and walk some of the time. ABUSE!" (Welcome to the enchanting world of arthritis in the spine.)

"I heard a guy requesting a GAC because of his neurological condition, and he stumbled over some of the words! FAKER!" (Gee, could the stumbling be a symptom of his neurological condition?)

"There were more than a couple of people at the accessible entrance! Come on, there can't really be THAT many people with disabilities! RAMPANT WIDESPREAD OBVIOUS UNDENIABLE FLAGRANT ABUSE!" (WDW is a popular vacation spot for PWD because they know WDW will do their best to give them access, which leads to a higher concentration than in the general public. Also, many people who don't need assistance at home because they can tailor their lives, homes, and workplaces around their disability can't do the same at WDW.)

I'm glad you all haven't experienced any abuse and maybe the number of abusers is small. However, when you hear the GAC card being called a "fastpass" over and over again and have a guest's wrath come down upon you when you won't let them come through the fastpass line because "that's what everyone else did," its hard NOT to assume the system is being abused. And I've overheard guests telling other guests to get this pass because "we haven't waited in a line all day" many times. Legit GAC card holders understand it's not a magical front-of-the-line pass. I've NEVER had an issue with a family who truly needs a GAC card because they don't hesitate to explain their situation and answer any questions we might have to help accommodate them. Like I said before, disabilities come in all forms and you can't judge based on what they look like.

Side note: As much as some guests believe, CM's aren't there to ruin your vacation, GAC card or not. We want to help you get on the attraction as efficiently as possible! Believe me, it's not fun to have hundreds of guests yelling at you because of long waits or ride breakdowns! We want you on the attraction, to enjoy it, and be on your merry way.

 

[ttintagel]

I'm glad you all haven't experienced any abuse and maybe the number of abusers is small. However, when you hear the GAC card being called a "fastpass" over and over again and have a guest's wrath come down upon you when you won't let them come through the fastpass line because "that's what everyone else did," its hard NOT to assume the system is being abused. And I've overheard guests telling other guests to get this pass because "we haven't waited in a line all day" many times.

I totally understand how guests not understanding how the GAC is supposed to work can be incredibly frustrating for CM's. I wish WDW would spend the money to hire more people to deal with unruly guests so that each CM wouldn't have to cope with so much by him- or herself.

But just because a guest is a jerk who doesn't understand how things work doesn't necessarily mean you can tell he doesn't actually need any assistance at all. It just means he's an ignorant jerk who hasn't bothered to learn what assistance is available and what isn't.

 

[Beccabunny]

There's another thread going where a guy without a disability thinks the GAC is unfair, so he is going to get one and then report back on how it works for him. Just great! Not only is THAT abuse, but if he perceives some advantage from it and tells everyone, that is only going to encourage MORE abuse.