New Al Lutz ( Micegage Update )

[rramstad]

It'll be interesting to see how accurate this information is.

A couple of random asides.

First, I had been considering buying DVC membership at GCH but seeing all the changes over the last 18 months or so has made me realize that I can't have any security over the "value" of DVC. The property is tied so closely to DLR that if the policies and pricing at DLR becomes unattractive, the property itself is unattractive. Imagine if ticket prices are double the current price in three years, and every holiday season has "parties" in the evenings, usually four nights a week Thursday through Sunday, with extra cost attached... well, that would put a serious serious crimp in the value of DVC, that's for sure, and also a crimp in the value of having an AP (if on peak nights, everyone was kicked out of one park unless they paid $50 or $60 for a "party", making the other park super crowded).

Second, regardless of right, wrong, logic, illogic, I know my own family with three young kids found the current FP system very good precisely because we could collect FP during the morning and come back to use them later in the day or even in the evening. It's just not possible to schedule things tightly enough to guarantee that we'll be in the right part of the park at the right time to use FP, and my youngest takes about 40 minutes to walk from one end of DLR to the other. It will be a serious crimp in our plans if FP return times are enforced... I also really really don't like the idea of reserving FP using a computer or phone like a dinner reservation, it removes so much of the spontaneity that comes from wandering around the park and deciding as you go... just makes the whole thing a lot more work.

I guess I had three points LOL I would also ditto some other posters in that we've been avoiding WDW given how the parks are spread out, require more planning, and seem to work best when you eat at the parks (we tend to prefer finding cheaper more local fare off site) but if DLR slowly becomes more and more like WDW the differences go away. WDW with free dining and relatively inexpensive on site lodging becomes a lot more of a possibility. I suppose Disney probably won't care if we go that route, but it's unclear to me if they make more money off a guest being at DLR for one day vs being at WDW for one day. Do they really want a lot of people saying "eh, forget it, I have to fly regardless, might as well fly to FL and get free dining for the same $$"? That strikes me as foolish.

 

[Mr Snappy]

I'm with you on Al but I'm curious how the return times are fantastic. To me, it seems like it's almost designed to either keep you in one land for 2-4 hours (snooze) or zig-zagging the park needlessly to get back for your window at Star Tours right about the time you'd naturally be over by Splash Mountain (or something)?

Huh?
The purpose of a fast pass is to allow you to leave the area and do other things. You come back when you reach the time on the pass. I am puzzled why you would not see this as an advantage to standing in the stand-by line all day. You are always free to do that, you are not being forced to use a FP. If your point is that you think that the purpose of a FP is to get it and come back any time you like....don't you think that would cause problems? The intent of the FP is to save you from standing in line, not to create a custom tour plan for guests to choose premium times to ride E-Tickets.

 

[Zbugz]

This is exactly the conversation that DH and I have had. The escalating cost of these Disney vacations is seriously impacting our ability to do other travel, and I fear this next one will be the last visit for a while. Aloha!

Although I realize that DL is a corporation who's purpose is the make a profit, this raising prices to see what the market will bear rather than to cover cost increases, is very distasteful to me.

Yep. I'm thinking that Hawaii is starting to sound like a bargain. Aloha.

 

[kelmac284]

Normally I don't like to get into these debates but it always amazes me when people try to complain when people were enjoying a policy that was in place for years and then act like they were breaking rules.

MOST of us know that this has been a policy that Disney has let happen for years. People were NOT breaking the rules. If they WERE breaking the rules then they would NOT have let it happen. I still think that people thinking that people coming back AFTER makes such a huge difference. I look at it as if they hand out say 200 passes for each say half hour slot for those that DON'T come during their allotted time there may be some that come later etc. I think on average it still works out.

I have heard someone talk about Carsland but I can tell you I don't see HOW people are supposedly doing this on this ride as it seems most of the passes that were handed out at 8 a.m. to 9 or whenever they are completely gone can't USE them till that time. Because the passes are completely gone for the ENTIRE day by that time.

Also I can tell you I don't get a pass with the direct intention of coming back at a "better" time. WHILE we are going from land to land we get a pass so that god forbid we might get more than 1 ride in on a particular ride. I know that the old days when you HAD to wait in 1 to 2 hour lines per ride you would go for an entire day and be lucky to go on maybe 7 or 8 rides. They invented fast pass to get people OUT of the lines and into the stores and restaurants. By making it flexible it allows people TO do other things and go back to the rides when the times work for their schedules and NOT have to miss meals or other things. It also makes it so families can take the much needed breaks, so people like my mom and I CAN go on more than 1 thing because we cannot run back and forth zig zagging. I agree with Mary in that depending on the time of the pass you are pretty much STUCK in the area to use it.

I don't see why people are so FOR this. I have not noticed that it has impacted it THAT much. Sure occasionally there are long fp lines but for the most part I think they run pretty smoothly. I think there will actually be MORE people in them when everyone is forced to use it or lose it.

 

[Ancient Purple]

Although I realize that DL is a corporation who's purpose is the make a profit, this raising prices to see what the market will bear rather than to cover cost increases, is very distasteful to me.

Right on target.

For the last fiscal year, Disney's park profits have been up 21% over the prior fiscal year. Disney will continue to raise prices and cut services and employee perks until they get serious push back from the public (or even CMs) and sales taper off.

Sadly, the chances of public push back is quite low.

Normally I don't like to get into these debates but it always amazes me when people try to complain when people were enjoying a policy that was in place for years and then act like they were breaking rules.

MOST of us know that this has been a policy that Disney has let happen for years. People were NOT breaking the rules. If they WERE breaking the rules then they would NOT have let it happen. I still think that people thinking that people coming back AFTER makes such a huge difference. I look at it as if they hand out say 200 passes for each say half hour slot for those that DON'T come during their allotted time there may be some that come later etc. I think on average it still works out.

First, you are correct about violating a "rule." A rule in a private company carries only the weight by which it is enforced. The FP use rule is not a statute or an administrative law. It is words on a piece of paper and the CMs and the suits at DLR have been ignoring those words for sometime, thus making them moot.

I do agree with you regarding the new enforcement. Considering that a ride like RSR breaks down quite often, I wonder how that is going to be handled if the FP is for a time when the ride is completely down or weather causes a closing.

 

[Mary09]

Huh?
The purpose of a fast pass is to allow you to leave the area and do other things. You come back when you reach the time on the pass. I am puzzled why you would not see this as an advantage to standing in the stand-by line all day. You are always free to do that, you are not being forced to use a FP. If your point is that you think that the purpose of a FP is to get it and come back any time you like....don't you think that would cause problems? The intent of the FP is to save you from standing in line, not to create a custom tour plan for guests to choose premium times to ride E-Tickets.

Not sure why the condescending "huh?", but you obviously misunderstood. I'm not saying a FP is inferior to stand-by only options. Just that it's not much use to my family to pick up a FP that requires that we back at a ride in 3-4 hours when our natural inclination (and that of most) is to have toured far out of that 'land' by that time. Being able to use it in 6-8 hours or whenever we were back near there and it was convenient was valuable. Having to rush back to use it right when we're opposite in the park doesn't seem very efficient or user friendly. It's almost like a touring plan where they have you start at Soarin then head to Splash then head to GRR then head to Star Tours. Maybe that's the logic. Make it hard for people to use their FPs so they skip the E-ticket rides, thereby evening out the lines.

 

[Disney Dreams]

Would now be the proper time to point out that what Al reports are just rumors?

You beat me to it by a few posts!

Remember, everyone, Al does not work for Disney in any way, shape, or form. He is a reporter.

Why don't we analyze every reporter who writes / theorizes / discusses Disney issues? I have never understood the fascination here on DIS with discussing Al's ramblings, but, yes, remember that he is a reporter. Some of what he has written about this time around is very well-known, some of it has not been stated by Disney. Until Disney reports it, don't panic too much.

As for charging more for the Christmas extras I don’t have a problem with that. On a regular day in the parks you don’t get these perks....

But... on a regular day during the month of December you DO get these perks. And have for the past I-don't-know-how-many-years.

I TRULY hope Al is not correct on this one, but given WDW's Magic Kingdom's way of holding these Christmas elements hostage, I fear this one could be fact.

- Dreams

 

[Patrick in Oregon]

Not sure why the condescending "huh?", but you obviously misunderstood. I'm not saying a FP is inferior to stand-by only options. Just that it's not much use to my family to pick up a FP that requires that we back at a ride in 3-4 hours when our natural inclination (and that of most) is to have toured far out of that 'land' by that time. Being able to use it in 6-8 hours or whenever we were back near there and it was convenient was valuable. Having to rush back to use it right when we're opposite in the park doesn't seem very efficient or user friendly. It's almost like a touring plan where they have you start at Soarin then head to Splash then head to GRR then head to Star Tours. Maybe that's the logic. Make it hard for people to use their FPs so they skip the E-ticket rides, thereby evening out the lines.

My wife and I discussed this last night, and I hadn't even thought of rushing back and forth. Each day we are bound to get less done because of the simple fact that you have to decide between staying in one area to hit your FP windows or more of your time is spend walking from land to land.


Also I think telling people to "get over it" is a pretty negative way to have a discussion. Whether or not these FP rules have been broken or bent (a discussion I've been *trying* to avoid), it doesn't mean that people have not been planning their park strategies around it, and it is a major change. Telling people to "get over it" is really an unnecessary comment considering if FPs are enforced, people WILL adjust without your encouragement.

And good for everyone on their high-horse that has always used the FPs within their alotted window. You have been missing out.

 

[ktlm]

Of course, they are going to turn it into Christmas parties and charge-we're coming next year.

We have been to WDW the last 4 Christmas seasons and are going again this year. We've been talking about trying DL/CA next year because we won't have to take DD out of school for as long. We were so excited, about not only finally getting to see the Small World and Haunted Mansion overlays and all the DL decorations, but more importantly that we would be able to see the parade and other events without having to pay $180 for the 3 of us to attend a party at DL/CA in addition to our regular tickets, like we do at WDW. Plus, the last couple of years because it is hard to get everything in on one night (DD is character crazy and MK only has characters in their holiday clothes during the parties and their lines can be really long), we've been going to 2 parties at MK at WDW- you can do the math on that one!

A PP or two mentioned that they were hoping this would reduce the crowds for the holiday events. I don't know how it will be at DL/CA with all the local crowd and maybe they won't be as interested in the parties as the WDW tourists, but at WDW they sell a ton of tickets to the parties. It is packed. Now, the ride lines are usually short, but any party specific stuff can be crazy. People are paying FOR the holiday stuff. We were there on a sold out night a few years ago and could not find a spot anywhere along the entire parade route to watch the early parade (it usually runs twice during the party- at 8 and 10:30) an hour before it started. I could be wrong, but I would think that if they sell out the parties and they only run the holiday parade on party nights instead of every day, that the holiday events would be more packed than they are now- especially if a ton of the people with party tickets are local AP holders that can come ride the rides any time.

I guess it is not a surprise they are going to holiday parties since they clearly make a ton of money off them at WDW, and the Halloween parties at DL/CA seem to have sold out quite a bit this year which I'm sure puts dollar signs in their eyes. Its still a bummer though!

As far as fastpass, it is an annoyance, but I guess I see it as that they've always had the times on them and it is Disney's choice whether to enforce them. Plus, as a WDW vet, to me it isn't that hard to make the time window at DL (unless it is at a time where I have a meal reservation), because everything is so close together there.

 

[Brian Noble]

Whether or not these FP rules have been broken or bent (a discussion I've been *trying* to avoid), it doesn't mean that people have not been planning their park strategies around it, and it is a major change.

I've been to WDW since they've tightened up enforcement. It does require a slightly different frame of mind, but at the end of the trip I find I see more or less the same set of attractions. It's not as drastic a change as some fear, in my experience.

 

[Pesky]

But... on a regular day during the month of December you DO get these perks. And have for the past I-don't-know-how-many-years.

I TRULY hope Al is not correct on this one, but given WDW's Magic Kingdom's way of holding these Christmas elements hostage, I fear this one could be fact.

- Dreams

Exactly. FP stuff seems to be inevitable giving the growing crowds so while still rumor, certainly not an earth-shaking one. But the Christmas Party is something I can see them thinking quite seriously about which I will detest. Totally ruins our visit quite frankly. I'm just keeping fingers crossed that if they decide to pull the trigger on that run-away impending disaster, it's not until 2014!

 

[OnTheRoadAgain]

You beat me to it by a few posts!

Remember, everyone, Al does not work for Disney in any way, shape, or form. He is a reporter.

Why don't we analyze every reporter who writes / theorizes / discusses Disney issues? I have never understood the fascination here on DIS with discussing Al's ramblings, but, yes, remember that he is a reporter.

So now I am curious. Do you know if Al has been wrong before with his reports?

 

[Sherry E]

So now I am curious. Do you know if Al has been wrong before with his reports?

You didn't ask me, but I will jump in...

Al Lutz typically reports on things that are being discussed or tossed around...considered. He usually does not 'break news' that is 100% confirmed.

So, that said, some of the things that he reports which are being tossed around/considered do not end up happening for whatever reason, but in the meantime people have panicked.

One such example is in 2010, when the Halloween Party was moving over to Disneyland and out of DCA. Al reported that TDA was considering allowing the non-party guests to stay and watch the Halloween Screams fireworks, even without a party ticket.

It never happened. People were in an uproar over it, but it never happened - and, frankly, no one really knows if it was ever even close to happening. We only know what Al reported that was being tossed around/discussed.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Wow.. With all this bad news and the crowds we may have to try WDW in the off season instead next time. (since there is no longer an "off season" for DL)

If you head over to the WDW theme parks forum here, they have pretty much the same thought - that there's no off season at WDW. I'm not sure there will ever be a true off season at either park now

 

[firefly87]

So.....hypothetically speaking......if what Al is saying about the FP's *is* true and Disney decides to start enforcing FP return times and they want to have it rolled out by Thanksgiving.......is this something that Disney would typically announce in advance or just start having CM's start enforcing it on a given day?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Although I am not crazy over the enforcement of FPs...I can live with it. But, with the changes going to the NextGen FPs while it sounds interesting....I read somewhere that, at least at WDW, you will only get it if you stay onside? I hope it isn't like that at DL. With only three hotels that are cost prohibitive, I think there would be some unhappy visitors. Anyone know for sure?

I am given to understand fast passes will still be available to everyone. What will only be available to hotel guests is the ability to get a couple for each day of your trip beforehand.

that there's no off season at WDW.

There are still times of the year it's relatively quiet there. Disney doesn't give away dining free if they're full up. They aren't nearly as quiet as they used to be. But still they are relatively quiet.

The purpose of a fast pass is to allow you to leave the area and do other things.

The purpose of fast pass was to people to go into the store and buy stuff while they were waiting instead of spending the time in the stand by line buying nothing. In that regard, fast pass was a failure. People just spent time in other lines. But people like it so they have kept it.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

My wife and I discussed this last night, and I hadn't even thought of rushing back and forth. Each day we are bound to get less done because of the simple fact that you have to decide between staying in one area to hit your FP windows or more of your time is spend walking from land to land.


Also I think telling people to "get over it" is a pretty negative way to have a discussion. Whether or not these FP rules have been broken or bent (a discussion I've been *trying* to avoid), it doesn't mean that people have not been planning their park strategies around it, and it is a major change. Telling people to "get over it" is really an unnecessary comment considering if FPs are enforced, people WILL adjust without your encouragement.

And good for everyone on their high-horse that has always used the FPs within their alotted window. You have been missing out.

You complain about people having a discussion in a negative way and making unnecessary comments. Well what exactly is accusing people on the other side of the issue as being on their high horse then?

 

[WorldOfColorful]

Marvel in the parks is the worst idea ever.


But part of me would love to see what imagineering comes up with.

 

[Eeee-va]

So.....hypothetically speaking......if what Al is saying about the FP's *is* true and Disney decides to start enforcing FP return times and they want to have it rolled out by Thanksgiving.......is this something that Disney would typically announce in advance or just start having CM's start enforcing it on a given day?

For WDW I believe the progression was:

*Rumors of upcoming enforcement
*Statements from Disney of upcoming enforcement
*Signs on FP machines warning of enforcement
*CMs started warning guests that late FPs would no longer be accepted
*CMs stopped taking FPs outside the window (with a tiny bit of wiggle room; I think 5 minutes early and 15 minutes late are OK?)

I'd be beyond shocked if Disney rolled it out overnight with no transition period or advance warning...things will be hard enough for CMs when most savvy FP users will be prepared for the new policy.

 

[ManusDei]

Marvel in the parks is the worst idea ever.


But part of me would love to see what imagineering comes up with.

I see similar comments every time someone mentions the rumor about Marvel characters or content being added to the DLR or other non-Florida Disney properties. I'm really curious, why is everyone so against it?

I see lots of people saying Marvel is "not Disney". Neither is Star Wars, or Indiana Jones, or Avatar (and I personally am not thrilled at the idea of Avatar's addition). And yet, most people seem not to have a problem with those attractions. Sure, Marvel movies don't have a lot of that warm, feel-good-ness that is often present in "classic Disney", e.g. princess movies, Lion King, Lilo and Stitch, Pixar movies, etc, if that's what you mean by them being "not Disney". But I'd even put Pirates in the same general category as Marvel: they both target similar audiences, contain lots of aggressive action, and some characters that are less-than-heroic or not truly good. And if franchises like Pirates, Tron, Tim Burton-style Alice, and other modern ones can exist alongside the classic Disney franchises within the parks, why can't Marvel?

I'd really be interested to hear others opinions on this.