New Al Lutz: Marketing DCA and Cars Land, EP Not Returning?, BVS Entertainment

[skiingfast]

ETA: what they do have to guard against is losing folks who normally stay on site at WDW from staying off site at DLR. Hopefully they highly incentivize on site stays or doing something else to keep those visits on site. Maybe they have indications that those who stay on site at WDW are pre-disposed to stay onsite at DLR?

A. That just gives up more potential revenue.
B. With DLR hotels running at super high occupany rates, there isn't much room to bring more guest into the hotels. At WDW they keep building more rooms.

 

[ArchOwl]

A. That just gives up more potential revenue.
B. With DLR hotels running at super high occupany rates, there isn't much room to bring more guest into the hotels. At WDW they keep building more rooms.

They will make room as the article states by discontinuing most of the discounts of past years and instead luring out of town folks to stay longer. Voila, more room as more locals stay somewhere else. At least that is plan. If anyone can pull it off it is Disney.

 

[3Minnies1Mickey]

They will make room as the article states by discontinuing most of the discounts of past years and instead luring out of town folks to stay longer. Voila, more room as more locals stay somewhere else. At least that is plan. If anyone can pull it off it is Disney.

How do they offer discounts only to that demographic? The only way they could do it would be through Pin codes and they'd have to get them to register inthe DL site to do that.

 

[ArchOwl]

The way I read the article it was post DCA re-opening there would be fewer discounts for anyone. That the PR people would build up the demand and send full price customers to DLR from markets not normally tapped. These out of state people would pay top dollar and stay longer than in state and locals folks. This means more money for Disney.

 

[skiingfast]

They will make room as the article states by discontinuing most of the discounts of past years and instead luring out of town folks to stay longer. Voila, more room as more locals stay somewhere else. At least that is plan. If anyone can pull it off it is Disney.

The locals never have been staying in the hotels. Thier cars are parked at the M&Fs garage. This is why the average non AP holder visit is still 1 day long.

If you haven't noticed the current 35% off special has been negated by raising the base rates. In effect they have already ended the discounts.

Voila it's not simple even for Disney, and not worthwhile to compete with WDW.

Like 3Minnies pointed out earlier.

I corrected my previous statement. I don't know if I'd even compare it to a moderate.

In any case you don't compare one hotel to another, you would try to make a best estimate by looking at an average DLR hotel to average WDW. WDW is closer to Delux. DLR is close to staying offsite.

For imformation
WDW rooms are about
7K Value
7K Moderate
6K Delux
3.5K Villa
24K total

DLR rooms are about
1K DLH
.5K PPH
.75K GCH
.05 GCH Villa
2.25K total

2.5K rooms, more than onsite and that is just across the street, less than 1/3of the total offsite hotels within a block or the parks. When you include the tall, tower convention hotels the room count offsite would climbs quickly.

 

[ArchOwl]

But this assumes that there are only a finite group of people that Disney can pull from. This is simply not true. There are people in these markets who have never been to Disney (WDW or DLR). There are people who were on the fence about going to a Disney park and then they see new advertising for DL and decide to spend at Disney. There are people who love WDW and won't go to DLR anyway.

Any new dollar they get from a marketing push is a dollar they didn't have before. Any dollar they get from someone who wasn't going to go, but decides to go because they have been directly advertised to, is a dollar they wouldn't have gotten. And DLR was never going to get the dollar from a die hard WDW fan anyway.

Might some folks who normally go to WDW decide to go to DLR instead? Sure! But Disney still gets their money and new money. So it is worth it to expand their market beyond what they normally do. And no way are they going to get the visitation that WDW does, but all they want is a more favorable percentage shift in the on-site hotels. Instead of discounting their on-site hotels, they would rather get as many at rack rate as possible with visitors from out of state. All they really need is a 5-10% shift in the kind of visitors to DLR to notice an increase in profit. Keep the AP visits where they are or even less and skew 10% to out of state visitors means a noticeable profit increase.

So we aren't talking about stealing 50% of WDW guests, of course DLR could never handle that. We are talking about brand new guests or guests that probably wouldn't have gone to WDW this year. Maybe a handful of people will actually change their reservations at WDW to DLR (and cancel all those ADRs they made), but it doesn't seem likely. Nope, these are new people or people who were on the fence about the whole thing who changed their minds.

And the Orange County and immediate area folks might not spend the night, but other Californians do. I live 4 hours away and spend at least 2 nights in Anaheim, usually more. So do people from Nor Cal, NV, and AZ. We spend money, but not like the folks who come from several states away or overseas. We see those folks on the Dis, who get 7 day, 10 day, 14 day parkhoppers and spend a week or two at DLR.

 

[DryCreek]

This could be a stupid move. Thousands of dollars of revenue at WDW would not want to be traded for hundreds at DLR.

It would have to be carefully marketed as a try DLR as an extra visit, don't sub DLR for WDW.

I see it as an excellent ploy - direct a larger number of possible guests to the park(s) where you have just made the largest (and most expensive) upgrades to until they have been paid off, or nearly so!

Once they have recouped a large enough chunk of their capital expenditure, then make changes at WDW and funnel these "new past DLR" guests into the newest addition to WDW.

 

[DryCreek]

I don't think any of the onsite hotels would be considered moderates. And the dining options don't even compare to WDW. There are maybe a dozen TS restaurants in the 3 hotels and 2 parks (not counting DTD), but a TON of restaurants around the surrounding hotels. I think very few people would like being forced to eat onsite for every meal unless it was for free or a deep discount.

I don't know for sure, but from the pictures I have seen online, I would consider PPH to be close (in value/amenities) to POR or POFQ. Maybe someone here had stayed at both and could correct me or offer to compare/contrast the two lodging options for us.

The number of TS restaurants (a dozen?) seems appropriate for a four-day stay. Anyway, I have found that the CS dining plan suits me and the DW better, at least when we travel without our son or her parents.

The one thing I really (I mean really, really) like about WDW is the totally immersive experience. I realize that it isn't nearly as easy to duplicate at DLR, but if they'd at least try, maybe they would attract more of the stalwart WDW fan base?

I think that having a (real) dining plan to offer as an incentive to stay onsite would be a great marketing tool. It works for WDW, doesn't it? Last time I went it was offered as an enticement to lure us back for a fall getaway (free dining when staying at a WDW resort hotel and paying rack rate). Lots of people go for that offer - even though the Magic Your Way with CS added works out to be less expensive.

 

[iheartdisney]

Sorry to distract from the "WDW is so much better than DL" argument that has taken over the thread but I just wanted to say...
I can't wait for Luigi's tires!!!
My mother is beyond excited, and it has spread to the cockles of my heart as well. Every time we talk about Carsland, she is so excited to ride the tires. As a little girl, she was too small for the Flying Saucers, so she just had to stand and watch as her step-siblings and cousins rode and dreamed of the day she would be tall enough. As fate would have it, the ride disappeared before she reached the required height. But now her dreams have been reborn, and she is planning on flying out from Florida to visit us as soon as a date is set in stone for the opening!

 

[PinkBudgie]

Sorry to distract from the "WDW is so much better than DL" argument that has taken over the thread but I just wanted to say...
I can't wait for Luigi's tires!!!
My mother is beyond excited, and it has spread to the cockles of my heart as well. Every time we talk about Carsland, she is so excited to ride the tires. As a little girl, she was too small for the Flying Saucers, so she just had to stand and watch as her step-siblings and cousins rode and dreamed of the day she would be tall enough. As fate would have it, the ride disappeared before she reached the required height. But now her dreams have been reborn, and she is planning on flying out from Florida to visit us as soon as a date is set in stone for the opening!

Aww, that's so neat! She finally has her chance! It sounds like one of those personal stories they put in the Fan Spotlight in the Disney Insider.

 

[DryCreek]

Sorry to distract from the "WDW is so much better than DL" argument that has taken over the thread

I wouldn't say it is WDW vs. DL, I think it is more of a discussion of what some of Disney's most dedicated customers would like to see changed to convince them to better utilize another of the Disney products.

This is like going wanting the manufacturer of Brand X cars to offer navigation in their mid-size sedans, just like in their full-size ones. You still drive a Brand X full-size car, but if you could get this or that optional equipment offered, you just might also buy one of their mid-size cars as a second vehicle.

I'm not asking for DL to be just like WDW, but I sure wish that their vacation lineups were more similar in price point and offerings. I am the family vacation planner (as apparently no one else can figure out how to book airlines, RV parks or hotels). I like one-stop-shopping. Does that mean that I won't fill Mickeys pockets with my money? Nope. Next year we are going to DL (vice WDW) since we haven't been there in almost 20 years (last trip 1993, when Toon Town was new). Trust me, I am more than willing to give the mouse more of my hard earned money, but he sure makes it harder! If they offered lodging in the price ranges covered by the Value or Moderate range, and a way to get more value out of eating at Disney on-site restaurants, I would send a check. Just look at how many times we've done it going to WDW. All I am asking for is for them to make a larger funnel so that it is easier for me to throw my money into!

Please don't change to parks to make them more generically alike - that is not what I want! That would make it a moot point as to which park you visited in that case. Your only concern would be which destination has the lowest airfare.

 

[skiingfast]

o Talking Mickey meet and greet on BVS

http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/10/mickey-tests-some-magic-words-at-walt-disney-world/

 

[quantumottle]

<snip>... The one thing I really (I mean really, really) like about WDW is the totally immersive experience.

I hate to say this, because I absolutely believe that DL is the superior park to MK, but based on your quote above - that you REALLY like the WDW Immersion, along with your previous quote that the thing you will most about WDW is Epcot, I have to admit that you may be in the minority of people who come to DL and end up still preferring WDW.

Please don't attack me for saying that, I still hope you go to DLR and end up loving it, but for years I have been convincing people (family, friends, co-workers, etc.) to try DL instead of WDW, and 90% of them end up preferring DLR.

The ONLY exceptions have been what I think are the three main things DLR cannot duplicate for the WDW fan.
1. The castle is smaller, you have to find a way to live with that.
2. The "Immersion" is not the same, AT ALL. If you are going to miss driving for miles from the resort entrance to the park gates, or standing in line to board a Disney themed bus, then you may be disappointed at DLR.
3. If Epcot is your favorite WDW park, again, you may be disappointed at DLR.

Outside of those three issues, nobody I have met has missed WDW after a DLR visit.

Again, I hope you love DLR. I too am from Texas, and my family prefers DLR to WDW so much that I don't know if we will ever go back to WDW.

 

[HydroGuy]

I hate to say this, because I absolutely believe that DL is the superior park to MK, but based on your quote above - that you REALLY like the WDW Immersion, along with your previous quote that the thing you will most about WDW is Epcot, I have to admit that you may be in the minority of people who come to DL and end up still preferring WDW.

Please don't attack me for saying that, I still hope you go to DLR and end up loving it, but for years I have been convincing people (family, friends, co-workers, etc.) to try DL instead of WDW, and 90% of them end up preferring DLR.

The ONLY exceptions have been what I think are the three main things DLR cannot duplicate for the WDW fan.
1. The castle is smaller, you have to find a way to live with that.
2. The "Immersion" is not the same, AT ALL. If you are going to miss driving for miles from the resort entrance to the park gates, or standing in line to board a Disney themed bus, then you may be disappointed at DLR.
3. If Epcot is your favorite WDW park, again, you may be disappointed at DLR.

Outside of those three issues, nobody I have met has missed WDW after a DLR visit.

Again, I hope you love DLR. I too am from Texas, and my family prefers DLR to WDW so much that I don't know if we will ever go back to WDW.

DL being a superior park - which it is BTW the best Disney park in the world IMO - does not make DLR superior to WDW.

Some WDW folks really like the large layout at WDW and the immersiveness. However, I think that is partly due to the fact they have become accustomed to that. DLR's small size offers some benefits as well that can be missed by WDW vets intent on only seeing "smallness" and not open to seeing how great it is to have everything close together.

The fact is that some WDW vets like WDW and have defined WDW as the ideal WDW type of experience - the hotels, dining, and layout - and thus anything that differs from this is inferior. By definition.

They frequently say WDW is better because "it is a whole vacation experience". Since when does whole vacation experience make it better? If what you want is whole vacation experience then, yes, WDW is better. But some do not want that. They want to experience Disney magic. And DLR has that in abundance.

Since we do not and have never considered Disney trips as "vacations", then the advantages of WDW are not as strong. We vacation at the beach or Hawaii or elsewhere. We go to Disney parks for the magical experiences.

Now I do think the hotels and restaurants at WDW do offer some additional Disney magic you can't get at DLR in the same way. They both have strengths and weaknesses. For those wanting a 7-10 immersive vacation you can't beat WDW. For those wanting 3-5 days of Disney magic and some really cool shows and better weather, then DLR may be the better choice.

 

[DryCreek]

I hate to say this, because I absolutely believe that DL is the superior park to MK, but based on your quote above - that you REALLY like the WDW Immersion, along with your previous quote that the thing you will most about WDW is Epcot, I have to admit that you may be in the minority of people who come to DL and end up still preferring WDW.

Please don't attack me for saying that, I still hope you go to DLR and end up loving it, but for years I have been convincing people (family, friends, co-workers, etc.) to try DL instead of WDW, and 90% of them end up preferring DLR.

The ONLY exceptions have been what I think are the three main things DLR cannot duplicate for the WDW fan.
1. The castle is smaller, you have to find a way to live with that.
2. The "Immersion" is not the same, AT ALL. If you are going to miss driving for miles from the resort entrance to the park gates, or standing in line to board a Disney themed bus, then you may be disappointed at DLR.
3. If Epcot is your favorite WDW park, again, you may be disappointed at DLR.

Outside of those three issues, nobody I have met has missed WDW after a DLR visit.

Again, I hope you love DLR. I too am from Texas, and my family prefers DLR to WDW so much that I don't know if we will ever go back to WDW.

Those are all good points, well, except for the castle one. Really, are there folks that can't get over the size of the castle? I guess being male may skew it's importance to me somewhat, but since the castle at WDW only serves as a TS dining venue other than a walk-though tour, I don't see the major difference. Sorry, but when it comes to castles, (at least for me), size doesn't matter.
As far as Epcot being my favorite Disney park, well, that's just because when it was introduced it was such a departure from Disneyland and teh Magic Kingdom. I enjoy the wide variety of experiences it offers. Now, that being said, I have not experienced DCA yet - it may be that the current and planned offerings there give me the same awe and wonder I feel at Epcot. You never know, new experiences are the spice of life, and I like to try things out.

It seems that you are a bit hard on the transportation system at WDW. Sure, sometimes the buses are a pain, but man, what a thrill it used to be to ride in the front cab on the MR from the TTC to Epcot, or round trip by the MK. The most hassle-free experience is to stay at the POR or POFQ since they are relatively centrally located and are smaller resorts. My favorite place to stay onsite was definitely the Fort Wilderness Campground. It had the best choices for making connections and getting to all of the parks. Also, don't forget that the Disney Transportation System includes the Disney Magical Express! What a marketing coup that is. When you fly in and don't even have to worry about your luggage, who cares how far your room is from the main gate? You're watching a Disney short anyway. Like I said, I like one-stop-shopping, and this is just one more piece of the puzzle that they offer that makes it so much more worthwhile to stay onsite at WDW.

Also, I wonder if my definition of "immersion" is a little looser than others? Shoot, if the Denny's has Mickey wallpaper, that is enough to get me started!

 

[soaringirl]

Some WDW folks really like the large layout at WDW and the immersiveness. However, I think that is partly due to the fact they have become accustomed to that. DLR's small size offers some benefits as well that can be missed by WDW vets intent on only seeing "smallness" and not open to seeing how great it is to have everything close together.

Well I for my part can see WDW and DLR as two different entities. I'm not a WDW vet, just a WDW fan. And I struggled to decide between the two of them for our next vacation. Not anymore! We decided to go again to DLR for the second time, and we love all the things that you DLR fans rave about.
1. Closeness. I don't mind AT ALL the bus system at WDW. But we LOVE the fact to be so close to the parks!! We stayed at the GCH and NOTHING can compare to that experience!! Just opening the window in the mornings and listen to the Downtown sounds, was amazing. We'll be staying now at the HoJo but we're waiting for a DLR promotion and see if we can book the DLH.
2. Disneyland. WOW!!! Is all I can say. Yes I 'm one of those Epcot die-hard fans. But Disneyland park is so amazing that I will not miss Epcot for sure. In fact, I do not think of the other parks at WDW when planning our vacation. I think of the coastline in California, I think of a baseball game at Angels Stadium. I think of San Diego and its beautiful bayfront.
3. Dining Planning. I'm an obssesed planner, so I don't mind planning ADR's 6 months in advance. In fact, I love it!! But now that I'm trying to do the same for DLR, I say to myself: "Wait a minute! we don't need to know for sure where are we eating and at what time". So I'm just making a list of the restaurants that I would like to try, look at their menus and we'll play it by ear... or smell .
4. Try something different than DLR. When in WDW, we just "inmerse" in WDW and that's it. Now we love the feeling to drive in California and be more inmerse in the californian culture, if that makes sense.

So, to all those WDW fans, forget about WDW when coming to DLR. Forget about the castle (yes, we were shocked!! but we got over it soon enough). DLR is so wonderful, including DCA. Can't wait to go into California Screamin' again, and take a bite listening to the Beach Boys!!