New $500 Resale DVC Transfer Fee

[Sandisw]

And I think they could do it at VGF without that specific language, possibly. But, if a resort has any dedicated studios/1BRs, (the OG VGF does not) then increasing the lockoff premium *also* increases the points allocated to any Residential Unit with such a dedicated room. And that they cannot do.

At least, that's what happens unless they start charging different values for lockoff studios vs. dedicated ones.

I just didn’t know it existed in language. The biggest piece to reallocations is that many units at every resort have mixed rooms in them.

Now, the treehouses at SSR do not and they did the adjustment.

But in a case where they may be dedicated and lock offs, and that the lock off premium can be attributed to either one, it might require a real in-depth analysis to see how off they are in cases where those mixed units exist.

I think the changes this year to AKV and PVB might be a good chance to ask for more details about the topic.

 

[Chili327]

But don’t you think that as long as the parks exist and people are going to Disney, there will be a market to buy the contract?

I do. Now, if someone went in with the expectation that it will always maintain a decent resale value?

No, I didn't buy with the intention of selling, but I did decide to jump in knowing the risk with D\/C was minimal unlike a "regular" timeshare (which I could be wrong, I just didn't/don't know any better)

IMO, I think that wasn’t the best choice. It’s why I caution people to not consider it as part of the equation because there are just too many unknowns in what could happen, especially moves by DVD, that can influence it.

As far as, "as long as the parks exist people will be interested in a contract", yes I agree, but more can be priced out (less buyers), also if I had to sell, I'm not sure I would want to make the trek 3,000 miles, it just wouldn't feel the same (D\/C spoiled. lol), so I'd have to start looking into Pop or other values, or *gasp* completely off property, which would also lead me to trying Universal, &/or any other destinations more often.
Technically, where it affects me, is I'm being priced out, D\/C had a certain value when I started looking into it (right about the time they started with raising the minimum for benefits & then added restricted resorts), so when I first started it was a good thing for me, but as it gets tighter, I already feel like I'm going to be forced to sell a contract or 2 in the near future, or just become a (mostly) full time renter, and visiting less often.

A little off topic, but it feels like A LOT has changed in the last 5 to 8 years (and I realize that's not just with Disney/D\/C). As with everything, squeeze the lemon until theirs no juice left... I just don't want there to be nothing left. lol

 

[jbcman]

Where I differ is that I don't view those as horror stories. I view them as buying opportunities, because most of them have postiive usage value, and some of them have even better exchange value. I've made a lot of hay with my (non-DVC) portfolio that cost me all of a few hundred to maybe a thousand to put together.

I think there's a difference between restrictions that make the usage of resale contracts more difficult, which in turn reduces the resale value, which can then present buying opportunity to the right buyer. Someone who wants to stay at Riviera year after year may be perfectly happy to accept the restrictions and pay less for a resale contract. The direct buyer still loses out, but there is at least the potential for a buyer to come out ahead.

But there is no way a fee like this can make things better for a potential buyer, it's just extra money going to Disney, for both the seller and the buyer it is either neutral or worse depending on who pays the fee, there is no potential winner there.

 

[zavandor]

What happens if DVD stops making new resorts? Let's say DVC is not profitable anymore for some reason and the "build new resorts" arm closes down.
Who will process resale contracts? We're told currently DVD pays for that so they add the fee to get their money back. But in this case DVCMC would have to process the new contracts and would fall under the management fee we already pay. Wouldn't it?

 

[Sandisw]

What happens if DVD stops making new resorts? Let's say DVC is not profitable anymore for some reason and the "build new resorts" arm closes down.
Who will process resale contracts? We're told currently DVD pays for that so they add the fee to get their money back. But in this case DVCMC would have to process the new contracts and would fall under the management fee we already pay. Wouldn't it?

No…we do not pay DVCMC for this work as part of the duties under the management contract.

It is not the responsibility of our condo association and thus not something we pay them to do…

It’s the responsibility of the developer to handle sales and transfers and they have hired DVCMC to do the work

Even if they no longer sell new resorts, it’s still their responsibility. Now, if they desolve and no longer exist?

No idea how that would work…I would guess the FL statutes would have info on that but right now, the management fee we pay to DVCMC does not include this duty.

Currently, those extra costs are being absorbed through money they get from DVD and other revenue beyond the 12%.

All we know is it a closing cost to the buyer and not the seller…and that it appears they will be increasing services to buyers is things are processed in a much more timely manner.

I see it as this way…for free, buyers were waiting 4 to 6 weeks to access points. Now, they will be paying $500 and thus, DVCMC has said its purpose is to handle the volume more efficiently.

I asked yesterday and they confirmed, on the record, that dues do not pay for anything related to this now.

 

[zavandor]

No…we do not pay DVCMC for this work as part of the duties under the management contract.

It is not the responsibility of our condo association and thus not something we pay them to do…

It’s the responsibility of the developer to handle sales and transfers and they have hired DVCMC to do the work

Even if they no longer sell new resorts, it’s still their responsibility. Now, if they desolve and no longer exist?

No idea how that would work…I would guess the FL statutes would have info on that but right now, the management fee we pay to DVCMC does not include this duty.

Currently, those extra costs are being absorbed through money they get from DVD and other revenue beyond the 12%.

All we know is it a closing cost to the buyer and not the seller…and that it appears they will be increasing services to buyers is things are processed in a much more timely manner.

I see it as this way…for free, buyers were waiting 4 to 6 weeks to access points. Now, they will be paying $500 and thus, DVCMC has said its purpose is to handle the volume more efficiently.

I asked yesterday and they confirmed, on the record, that dues do not pay for anything related to this now.

As I said earlier, there are a few clues that let me think this fee is questionable. I would not sue DVC for it because I'm not certain (and because I have really no intention to sell, so I'm not spending a lot of money for something that might or might not affect me), but those clues exist:

1) the state puts a limit on the cost of the estoppel letter. It seems to me there is the will to limit how much a timeshare developer can charge in junk fees that could limit the possibility to resell the contracts.
Why limit the estoppel letter to $150 when they can charge $500 for something else? It makes no sense

2) $500 is on a very high side. It's higher than any other system mentioned (except Marriot, which, however, charges a fee to make the resale points as good as retail. Incidentally, since this is mandatory I think it's illegal too, but whatever). If $500 is ok, what stops them to charge $1000 next year?

3) what happens if DVD is dissolved? Who handled new accounts? (see post above)

 

[Brian Noble]

Incidentally, since this is mandatory

Interestingly, it is not. But the points are VERY limited in usage if you do not do this. At least, that's how I remember the TUG discussions on this point. I could be wrong, I do not own there so haven't done the reading.

I don't think $500 is high, provided it happens on a reasonable timeline without too many errors.

Wyndham charges less, but they also take months and often don't get it right. I am STILL waiting on a Wyndham account split post-divorce, and we filed the paperwork in July. They believe that I am the owner of the weeks I am supposed to own, my ex is the owner of the week she is supposed to own, and I am no longer on her account. But she still has alll of the weeks in her account, and I still don't have my new one. That is despite about four different follow-up calls, all of which end with "It should take another two weeks." If it is still not done as of the new year, I'm going to escalate it.

 

[zavandor]

Interestingly, it is not. But the points are VERY limited in usage if you do not do this. At least, that's how I remember the TUG discussions on this point. I could be wrong, I do not own there so haven't done the reading.

I don't think $500 is high, provided it happens on a reasonable timeline without too many errors.

Wyndham charges less, but they also take months and often don't get it right. I am STILL waiting on a Wyndham account split post-divorce, and we filed the paperwork in July. They believe that I am the owner of the weeks I am supposed to own, my ex is the owner of the week she is supposed to own, and I am no longer on her account. But she still has alll of the weeks in her account, and I still don't have my new one. That is despite about four different follow-up calls, all of which end with "It should take another two weeks." If it is still not done as of the new year, I'm going to escalate it.

Ah sorry I understood it was, I don't own there either.

If they can charge $500 and it's reasonable, when does it become unreasonable?
And if they start to charge an unreasonable amount, on which bases can they be stopped? Because we go back to my first point, the Florida Law limits the cost of the estoppel letter, but then allows any other fee to be limitless? It does not make sense.

 

[Brian Noble]

If they can charge $500 and it's reasonable, when does it become unreasonable?

Ask Justice Stewart. (Less flippiantly, that's almost certainly how that would be adjuticated. Does it seem reasonable given the overall ecosystem?)

 

[Sandisw]

As I said earlier, there are a few clues that let me think this fee is questionable. I would not sue DVC for it because I'm not certain (and because I have really no intention to sell, so I'm not spending a lot of money for something that might or might not affect me), but those clues exist:

1) the state puts a limit on the cost of the estoppel letter. It seems to me there is the will to limit how much a timeshare developer can charge in junk fees that could limit the possibility to resell the contracts.
Why limit the estoppel letter to $150 when they can charge $500 for something else? It makes no sense

2) $500 is on a very high side. It's higher than any other system mentioned (except Marriot, which, however, charges a fee to make the resale points as good as retail. Incidentally, since this is mandatory I think it's illegal too, but whatever). If $500 is ok, what stops them to charge $1000 next year?

3) what happens if DVD is dissolved? Who handled new accounts? (see post above)

IMO, since estoppel is a seller fee, and you have to pay to sell your ownership.

No one is required to buy a timeshare and so, closing costs to a buyer seem to me not something covered under the statute that guides estoppel.

Buyers are not yet owners of that deed and this to me is what makes it different, especially when it does say the managing entity can charge a fee that seems to be completely separate to what the other statute does indeed limit.

From what I have been told, the statue related to the whole junk fees was what they can change eve an owner to sell…and if they want to have approval of the sale….then it would need to be in the POS.

But this fee is not…it’s part of the closing costs a buyer is required to pay to purchase the timeshare not for the seller to pay in order to sell.

 

[CarolynFH]

500 is on a very high side. It's higher than any other system mentioned

I read on TUG that Hyatt charges $500 to process an ownership transfer.

 

[Sandisw]

I read on TUG that Hyatt charges $500 to process an ownership transfer.

To add, some have said there are ones that can charge even more.

 

[mkatsy]

I read on TUG that Hyatt charges $500 to process an ownership transfer.

How much do the Hyatt resales cost? Admittedly, I don’t know anything about the program, but I do see hundreds of thousand point Hyatt contracts on eBay for $1.00

 

[jbcman]

How much do the Hyatt resales cost? Admittedly, I don’t know anything about the program, but I do see hundreds of thousand point Hyatt contracts on eBay for $1.00

There has been a lot of consolidation in the timeshare industry outside of DVC, so it gets confusing, Marriott bought both Hyatt Vacation Club and Welk Resorts, then rebranded the Welk Resorts under the Hyatt brand. If you see a Hyatt contract for hundreds of thousands of points, it means it's a former Welk Resort and has no resale value, if you see a contract for one or two thousand points it means it's an original Hyatt Vacation Club resort and those can have decent resale value depending on the resort and the season. I believe for direct buyers there are internal trade possibilities between the two systems, but that would not apply to resale contracts.

 

[mkatsy]

There has been a lot of consolidation in the timeshare industry outside of DVC, so it gets confusing, Marriott bought both Hyatt Vacation Club and Welk Resorts, then rebranded the Welk Resorts under the Hyatt brand. If you see a Hyatt contract for hundreds of thousands of points, it means it's a former Welk Resort and has no resale value, if you see a contract for one or two thousand points it means it's an original Hyatt Vacation Club resort and those can have decent resale value depending on the resort and the season. I believe for direct buyers there are internal trade possibilities between the two systems, but that would not apply to resale contracts.

I took a look at it and tried to understand but the whole thing is a bit overwhelming if you don’t have any experience. Honestly, one of the things I love about DVC is that it’s pretty straightforward. Aside from the restricted resorts, points are points and there are two booking windows to be aware of even I can manage it well.