Neighbor WWYD

[teacherforhi]

Really....We have had 3 emails from the school district since January about 3 DIFFERENT attempts at abductions from bus stops. I live in what would be deemed total surburbia. We make the Forbes list of best places to live every year.

Yes, really. I was just going off the websites that were posted by the previous poster.

Even non-family abductors aren't usually complete strangers to the child. Look at Elizabeth Smart. The man who took her had done work around the house. Etan Patz...the man considered to be responsible for his disappearance (although never criminally prosecuted) was a friend of Etan's babysitter.

The point is...stranger abduction is rare. I'm not saying that it never happens, of course it does. I'm not saying don't care of your children, of course you should. But you shouldn't be raising your child to be frightened of what's around every corner and never letting them do anything on their own "just in case". I work in a middle school, and I'm constantly amazed by the parents that won't let their child do anything without them. We have more than one parent that won't let their child go on a simple field trip without them being present. By age 11, your child should be able to go to a museum without you holding their hand.

 

[leebee]

And stranger abduction is such a threat.

The incidence of stranger abduction is so slim you are actually bringing up one that happened 30 years ago.

I prefer to worry about real threats and dangers to my kids.

But you only get one chance; with some things there are no "do-overs." This isn't like going to the office Christmas party and realizing that orange wasn't the best color to wear: "Gee, next time I won't wear an orange dress." If your kid gets lost/hurt/stolen/etc, you don't have the opportunity to say, "Gee, IF THEY EVER FIND HIM, I won't let him walk alone again?" Why would you want to take this risk if it's something you can easily protect against?

I'm not even talking child abduction; I'm talking about your little kid getting lost on the way home, or scared because they can't remember which way to go, or don't recognize their driveway (we have some developments with pretty long driveways around here), or there's a scary noise from the woods (we also have bears here.. and deer). Is it really too much hassle for you to meet a kid at the bus, or make sure there are arrangements for a little kid not to be alone? One of the ways to help your child become an independent person is by making them feel safe and confident. You might subscribe to the concept of throwing a non-swimmer into the deep end of the pool so they learn to swim out of desperation, but not me! Why wouldn't you keep your kid from being scared or hurt if you could prevent it, and teach them what they need to know in other ways?

And FWIW, to the poster who asked if another poster still holds the 9yo's hand to cross the street, my answer would be YES- or at least monitoring- when in any kind of traffic situation. Research studies in neuroscience and cognition have shown that children don't have the mental capacity to judge the speed and distance of a moving vehicle in relation to their own location. That area of the brain doesn't develop until the early teens. Of COURSE I drilled "stop, look, and listen" ad nauseum, but I was also THERE to make sure that step wasn't taken while it wasn't safe. I am DDs MOM... it's my job to keep her healthy, safe, and whole.

I keep coming back to the question... "Why do you want to take the chance of something dangerous/painful/irreversible happening if you can prevent it?"

(one more comment... DD didn't go hang out at the mall when she was a teen. No point... they aren't there to shop, it's just hanging out, it's annoying to other patrons, annoying to the store owners, and invites trouble (I remember being a 14yo at the mall). There are plenty of activities and places to BE with your friends; hanging at the mall isn't an activity that happened for DD, and she had plenty of friends.)

 

[mhsjax]

But you only get one chance; with some things there are no "do-overs." This isn't like going to the office Christmas party and realizing that orange wasn't the best color to wear: "Gee, next time I won't wear an orange dress." If your kid gets lost/hurt/stolen/etc, you don't have the opportunity to say, "Gee, IF THEY EVER FIND HIM, I won't let him walk alone again?" Why would you want to take this risk if it's something you can easily protect against?

I'm not even talking child abduction; I'm talking about your little kid getting lost on the way home, or scared because they can't remember which way to go, or don't recognize their driveway (we have some developments with pretty long driveways around here), or there's a scary noise from the woods (we also have bears here.. and deer). Is it really too much hassle for you to meet a kid at the bus, or make sure there are arrangements for a little kid not to be alone? One of the ways to help your child become an independent person is by making them feel safe and confident. You might subscribe to the concept of throwing a non-swimmer into the deep end of the pool so they learn to swim out of desperation, but not me! Why wouldn't you keep your kid from being scared or hurt if you could prevent it, and teach them what they need to know in other ways?

And FWIW, to the poster who asked if another poster still holds the 9yo's hand to cross the street, my answer would be YES- or at least monitoring- when in any kind of traffic situation. Research studies in neuroscience and cognition have shown that children don't have the mental capacity to judge the speed and distance of a moving vehicle in relation to their own location. That area of the brain doesn't develop until the early teens. Of COURSE I drilled "stop, look, and listen" ad nauseum, but I was also THERE to make sure that step wasn't taken while it wasn't safe. I am DDs MOM... it's my job to keep her healthy, safe, and whole.

I keep coming back to the question... "Why do you want to take the chance of something dangerous/painful/irreversible happening if you can prevent it?"

(one more comment... DD didn't go hang out at the mall when she was a teen. No point... they aren't there to shop, it's just hanging out, it's annoying to other patrons, annoying to the store owners, and invites trouble (I remember being a 14yo at the mall). There are plenty of activities and places to BE with your friends; hanging at the mall isn't an activity that happened for DD, and she had plenty of friends.)

Thank you. I have always thought this. It wasn't a chance I was willing to take. It isn't something you can learn from. Once your child is gone, he is usually gone and if they do find him God knows what happened. Personally if my doughtier was Elizabeth Smart I would rather her have dies than to go through what she went through.

My kids awl to a friends house by themselves, when younger they called to tell me they got there. They don't go to the mall, because ours is full of trash, and I don't mean garbage. However, I do let DD and her friend go for a walk on the beach by themselves when we are there, just take your phone. Where I live going to a museum by yourself isn't an option, unless you can drive, it take about 45 minute to an hour to get there, and NO there are no busses. My kids started staying by themselves when they were in 5th grade.

 

[luvmy3]

What happened to the OP?

 

[RitaE]

I guess I just don't understand why this is always such a fight on the DIS - every parent makes these decisions and decides when and where their kids need closer monitoring.

Statements such as "But there are no second chances!" as a defense for insisting that your method is the only good decision are pretty misleading. For every Etan Patz it would be possible to list thousands of children who were abducted and abused by male family members and friends of the parents. I mean, when you go to family Christmas parties do you insist that your child never be alone anywhere with your relatives - because statistically your child is in far more danger from the people you know and trust than they are from any random stranger abduction event.

Personally if my doughtier was Elizabeth Smart I would rather her have dies than to go through what she went through.

??????? Holy Crap. Elizabeth Smart has recovered to be an educated, well spoken, married woman with a wonderful future ahead of her. I'm guessing she'd disagree with your belief that she's better off dead.

 

[Mkrop]

Yes, really. I was just going off the websites that were posted by the previous poster.

Even non-family abductors aren't usually complete strangers to the child. Look at Elizabeth Smart. The man who took her had done work around the house. Etan Patz...the man considered to be responsible for his disappearance (although never criminally prosecuted) was a friend of Etan's babysitter.

The point is...stranger abduction is rare. I'm not saying that it never happens, of course it does. I'm not saying don't care of your children, of course you should. But you shouldn't be raising your child to be frightened of what's around every corner and never letting them do anything on their own "just in case". I work in a middle school, and I'm constantly amazed by the parents that won't let their child do anything without them. We have more than one parent that won't let their child go on a simple field trip without them being present. By age 11, your child should be able to go to a museum without you holding their hand.

I think this goes back to what maxiemom said...there needs to be a happy medium. You can protect your child without going overboard for things like field trips that are supervised. The problem seems to be we have parental extremes.

And for what it is worth I know a 14 year old who got hit by a car crossing the street, out with all his buddies, walking to the local store to get milkshakes. He thought he could catch up to his friends and crossed when he shouldnt have. Teen brains are not always fully developed! He is fine now but he had a long recovery with a lot of pelvic damage. Now do I think Mommy needed to be there to hold his hand NO! But dont assume just bc you taught your kids how to cross the street, or avoid strangers etc. that they will always put it into practice.

I know my kids, I know which one of my kids can handle responsibility and when. DS14 was one age, DS9 another. Totally different personalities. I know they will be responsible independent adults someday, even if Mom did go to the bus stop for awhile!!!!!!

 

[luvmy3]

I guess I just don't understand why this is always such a fight on the DIS - every parent makes these decisions and decides when and where their kids need closer monitoring.

Statements such as "But there are no second chances!" as a defense for insisting that your method is the only good decision are pretty misleading. For every Etan Patz it would be possible to list thousands of children who were abducted and abused by male family members and friends of the parents. I mean, when you go to family Christmas parties do you insist that your child never be alone anywhere with your relatives - because statistically your child is in far more danger from the people you know and trust than they are from any random stranger abduction event.



??????? Holy Crap. Elizabeth Smart has recovered to be an educated, well spoken, married woman with a wonderful future ahead of her. I'm guessing she'd disagree with your belief that she's better off dead.

I'd even add, that for every abduction there are thousands of kids who walk home from the bus stop, play in their yards and neighborhoods, and even stay home alone everyday, that aren't.

And definitely to the pp's Elizabeth Smart comment.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

And stranger abduction is such a threat.

The incidence of stranger abduction is so slim you are actually bringing up one that happened 30 years ago.

I prefer to worry about real threats and dangers to my kids.

You see no real danger leavinga 6 year old alone? Also, you think 30 years has dimmed their pain and guilt? I don't think time makes losing a child easier to bear.

Again, as I pointed out before, stranger abduction isn't the only danger to a 6 year old alone. No one knows what happened to Etan, that's scarier than knowing he was abducted.

The fact that you couldn't take a little time out of your day to make sure your child arrives or returns from school and they just disappear? How do you live with that?

Anything could catch their interest, they are still too young to be left alone. That's why they have parents, that's why they aren't adults until 18. That's why there are laws that state you aren't to leave your under 12, 14 whatever age child alone. We need laws that state how old your child needs to be to be left alone because there are people in the world that think 6 is old enough? What does that say about people? If you are so caught up in your life you can't take the time to properly supervise your 6 year old, then maybe you need to reprioritize.

 

[Heidict]

The kid is 6, really?

If I was sitting there and a stranger was waiting to pick up my neighbors kid and the kid was visibly upset it would be an issue that I would get involved with.

I never said anyone should 'tell' anyone how to parent.

You said:

So we're talking about a 6 year old right? You need to speak with the parents and tell them you aren't comfortable with them not being there. However, there was someone there but the child didn't know that person? That's just weird.

They need to be responsible for their children. Maybe you may need to contact the school to make sure they are.

Telling someone that you are not comfortable with THEIR parenting decisions and calling the school to make sure the parents have given permission or authorization? Really. Sounds a lot like a busybody trying to tell someone else how to parent their child. What's next? A call to child protective services or maybe the cops?

Once your child is gone, he is usually gone and if they do find him God knows what happened. Personally if my doughtier was Elizabeth Smart I would rather her have dies than to go through what she went through.

Yeah, I'm sure that Elizabeth Smarts parents are so sad she isn't dead. She is damaged goods now after all. This has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read, not just on the Dis, but anywhere.

 

[dogluva]

Thank you. I have always thought this. It wasn't a chance I was willing to take. It isn't something you can learn from. Once your child is gone, he is usually gone and if they do find him God knows what happened. Personally if my doughtier was Elizabeth Smart I would rather her have dies than to go through what she went through.

My kids awl to a friends house by themselves, when younger they called to tell me they got there. They don't go to the mall, because ours is full of trash, and I don't mean garbage. However, I do let DD and her friend go for a walk on the beach by themselves when we are there, just take your phone. Where I live going to a museum by yourself isn't an option, unless you can drive, it take about 45 minute to an hour to get there, and NO there are no busses. My kids started staying by themselves when they were in 5th grade.

Near where I live, in Rockport, MA, a little girl was either swept away or taken from the beach she was at with her mother-you might want to rethink letting her walk on the beach!

Kids are at risk pretty much everywhere. My oldest three made it to adulthood just fine and I am pretty sure my youngest will do the same. Eventually you do have to let go of their hands.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Near where I live, in Rockport, MA, a little girl was either swept away or taken from the beach she was at with her mother-you might want to rethink letting her walk on the beach!

Kids are at risk pretty much everywhere. My oldest three made it to adulthood just fine and I am pretty sure my youngest will do the same. Eventually you do have to let go of their hands.

I've been following that story. Its so odd. Poor girl, I hope she is found.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Near where I live, in Rockport, MA, a little girl was either swept away or taken from the beach she was at with her mother-you might want to rethink letting her walk on the beach!

Kids are at risk pretty much everywhere. My oldest three made it to adulthood just fine and I am pretty sure my youngest will do the same. Eventually you do have to let go of their hands.

And where was mom that she doesn't know if the kid was swept away into the ocean or abducted? I can assure you that when my kids are at the beach, I know when they are in or near the water. Even adults can be swept away, why do people refuse to take the fact that the ocean is a dangerous place into consideration? Especially small children should be no where near the water without an adult next to them. Is this something people just don't know if they don't grow up by the shore?

 

[Hannathy]

far from it, infact my 9 yr old is flying as an unacompanied minor this summer and spending 2 weeks away from us. I'm guessing your wonderfully independant and prepared kids didnt do that in 4th grade huh?

But alone walking around a town aged 9 - that will never happen.

and please .... feel free to be speechless for a while.

Not that I want to play along with mine did this and yours didn't BUT

Actually my DD did do that except she was in 2nd grade, sorry

And my DS flew on his own not as an unaccompanied minor when he was in 6th. Flying is old hat to my kids and they could have done it on their own way earlier than the airline allows.

We also live in a town with 100,000 people and at least 90% of the kids walk home alone or ride their bikes and can get off the bus without anyone meeting them.

 

[teacherforhi]

Anything could catch their interest, they are still too young to be left alone. That's why they have parents, that's why they aren't adults until 18. That's why there are laws that state you aren't to leave your under 12, 14 whatever age child alone. We need laws that state how old your child needs to be to be left alone because there are people in the world that think 6 is old enough? What does that say about people? If you are so caught up in your life you can't take the time to properly supervise your 6 year old, then maybe you need to reprioritize.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, there are only two states that have a law stating a minimum age that a child can be left alone. Also, both of those states have qualifying language in their laws that state parents can take into account the the child and the length of time, which essentially means that there are laws on the books allowing parents to use their best judgment. Since that's what most people would advocate anyway, they seem fairly useless laws.

 

[leebee]

Not that I want to play along with mine did this and yours didn't BUT

Actually my DD did do that except she was in 2nd grade, sorry

And my DS flew on his own not as an unaccompanied minor when he was in 6th. Flying is old hat to my kids and they could have done it on their own way earlier than the airline allows.

I can't imagine letting my daughter do this at the age of 12 (and as I work with middle schoolers, I can't imagine letting any of them do it, either).Flying is old hat to my DD, she's been flying cross country since the age of 6 months, and there's still just no way I would have put her on a plane at 12 years old and assumed she'd be fine and arrive at her destination. Heck last year she missed a connection at DTW and had to make arrangements for overnight accommodations, getting to hotel and back to airport, notifying those who were meeting her in IND and making alternate pick-up plans, etc. She was stressed by this at age 18, but took it in stride and worked it all out. However, there's no way she would have handled this when she was 12. If YOU are comfortable with it, that's your choice... but not mine.

FWIW, I made the statement "You only get one chance." It wasn't in defensiveness of how I choose to parent, and I wasn't insisting that mine is the only way to parent. I really don't care how YOU choose to do it. I just don't understand the choices people make when considering what's at stake, regardless of the miniscule chance of it happening to you. I was hoping someone could explain the rationale, but apparently not. It's fine, they are your kids, raise them how you want... just like I do.

 

[islandmum]

Not that I want to play along with mine did this and yours didn't BUT

Actually my DD did do that except she was in 2nd grade, sorry

And my DS flew on his own not as an unaccompanied minor when he was in 6th. Flying is old hat to my kids and they could have done it on their own way earlier than the airline allows.

We also live in a town with 100,000 people and at least 90% of the kids walk home alone or ride their bikes and can get off the bus without anyone meeting them.

your sarcasm radar must be on go slow, you completely missed the point of this sentence I wrote "I'm guessing your wonderfully independant and prepared kids didnt do that in 4th grade huh?" ..... whatever someone else may do, you've supposedly done it, probably whilst still an embryo. But you're fun to play. Today I'll say my DH is an astronaut - so I guess you have a holiday house on the moon ....

 

[SaraJayne]

I, too, am scared for our future. Not just on this board but in my own neighborhood. On a half day the bus came early. My neighbor was furious with the school and bus company because she wasn't there to get her fifth grade, 11 year old daughter off the bus. I was floored. My daughter walks home and is 9. She walked this fifth grader half way home because the girl was beside herself. How sad, we are creating a bunch of wimps. Nine is old enough to walk home! When do these kids learn to become independent?

My 5th grader (who turns 11 in a few days) stays home for hours by herself.

 

[islandmum]

I live in a "town" of less than 2500. My street is a dead end street so really the only people who drive here are my neighbors, the bus stop is less than a street away from my house, the park it out my back gate, no really it is.. I could never live in a town the size of yours or anything bigger than mine! Too many people! I am just not a city girl at all!

well thats a different case to where I live, and why you and I choose to do it differently. I think the area, and population density is highly critical to the decision of when they can walk alone.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm


A list of states with recommendations (or not) for ages where a child could be left alone. Notice "6" is not a recommended age, many states do not list an age at all, I guess they figure people might actually have the brains to figure out how old a child should be to be left alone.

 

[RitaE]

I can't imagine letting my daughter do this at the age of 12 (and as I work with middle schoolers, I can't imagine letting any of them do it, either).Flying is old hat to my DD, she's been flying cross country since the age of 6 months, and there's still just no way I would have put her on a plane at 12 years old and assumed she'd be fine and arrive at her destination. Heck last year she missed a connection at DTW and had to make arrangements for overnight accommodations, getting to hotel and back to airport, notifying those who were meeting her in IND and making alternate pick-up plans, etc. She was stressed by this at age 18, but took it in stride and worked it all out. However, there's no way she would have handled this when she was 12. If YOU are comfortable with it, that's your choice... but not mine.

FWIW, I made the statement "You only get one chance." It wasn't in defensiveness of how I choose to parent, and I wasn't insisting that mine is the only way to parent. I really don't care how YOU choose to do it. I just don't understand the choices people make when considering what's at stake, regardless of the miniscule chance of it happening to you. I was hoping someone could explain the rationale, but apparently not. It's fine, they are your kids, raise them how you want... just like I do.[/QUOTE]

Not so. I will be happy to explain it to you.

I look at the dangers involved in allowing my kids to slowly develop skills through increasing responsibility and self-direction and then I weigh that against the very real danger of over-parenting and raising adults who will be living in my basement at age 46 - playing video games, still needing me to do their laundry, pay their bills and cook their nightly plate of chicken nuggets with corn because they are completely incapable of "being alone."