Neighbor complaints about dog/considering rehoming

[cabanafrau]

Well it only took 9 posts for someone to finally point out that the dog needs exercise and something besides sitting home doing nothing for most of the day, and thankfully many other posters advocated the same.

For some, even many, dogs, this is fine. But it sounds like it's not enough for THIS dog. The dog could possibly be a completely different type dog if it had a daily routine with someone that included lots of exercise. (So for that reason, I would support rehoming if you can find such a home for him, not just put him in another unsuitable situation.)

A Labrador Retriever is a dog BRED TO WORK. It's an INNATE NEED for him to be doing something and expending a LOT of energy. His barking and anxious behaviors are because he literally doesn't know what else to do with himself. A working dog will make up his own "job" if you don't give him one. This is a classic dog problem that all the trainers and collars in the world won't be able to fix by themselves.

If you, or someone, were to redirect his energy, there could probably be an amazing transformation. We've all seen it when a previously neglected dog is given the opportunity to blossom. (And I don't mean it to say that your dog is neglected such as an abused dog, as I can hear that you love the dog and are doing the best you can given the circumstances; what I mean is that this dog's needs for work and release of pent up energy are not being met in the situation he's in right now.)

I mean, he may never be the type of dog that's going to be friendly at a dog park (in fact, he should not go there if he is aggressive towards other dogs), or the absolute best behaved ever since he's got a lot of learned negative behaviors now, but he could improve his quality of life so that at least he's not chronically frustrated, destructive and barking. That will be the best hope for this particular dog.

I will reiterate, a tired dog is a happy dog. One that's exhausted from physical and mental exertion. One who's been part of a social group that's doing things, even if this means one person being with the dog during the day, including it in their routine, and going for walks and playing fetch, etc. A contented, sleeping dog is a beautiful thing. As you've seen, an unhappy, frustrated working dog who isn't expending his energy, is not.

OP, as I said, I think rehoming would be a good option. Just try to find a good rescue or appropriate home if you can find anyone willing to take him. But honestly, it might be difficult given what you'd described. I'm sorry that this has happened to you. I have no doubt you love and care about the dog. Really.

I think there's a lot more to talk about on this subject that has to do with picking out the right type of dog when you welcome one into your home and that includes its personality and your lifestyle. Most people probably make more of an emotional choice when they fall in love with a dog and take it home but it may not necessarily be the right dog for them. And of course it may not be the best thing for the dog to go into a situation that's not ideal for them, either. As I said, most dogs probably do fine sitting around all day. But there are some that don't do well at all. Our shelters are full of pets that have become problematic. So sure, adopt from shelters, there are so many pets there. But this isn't really addressing the problems that stem from WHY so many pets are winding up in shelters in the first place. Today, we know so much better. This is why many shelters and rescues try so hard to match the right pet to the right home, and may not even consider a home if it doesn't meet a particular pet's individual needs. They try to set up for success whenever possible.


Well, there you go.

I'm sure many will consider my post here slamming, but the reason I've sat here for the last hour writing this (and even using up my battery and data despite our having NO POWER here given we're in the midst of a Nor'Easter) is because I CARE about this poster and I CARE about the dog, so I want to share my most honest and heartfelt, experienced opinion in the hopes it may just bring another perspective.

This is a subject I'm passionate about, just like you have subjects you are passionate about.

OP, no doubt it is tough to hear this type of advice. But it's the truth. If there are trainers out there saying this problem can be solved with medication and collars, then that truly saddens me.

And that's not to say that there are not some pets who might do well on medications like Prozac for other reasons such as this poster's pet...




... so I am not slamming medication per se. What I am saying is that in THIS situation, what the dog just likely needs is something to do that involves vigorous daily exercise. Every. day. Of course, it's possible that there's more to it than that, especially at this point, but vigorous daily exercise would go a long way towards helping this dog with its problems, as would someone being home with the dog who the dog can take his cues from. THEN you can reassess whether this dog needs medication or not. Perhaps he may, but it should ideally be in conjunction with other interventions.

Also, OP, pick up a book called Good Owners, Great Dogs. It might help you understand your dog's needs more.


Good luck.

I didn't realize Labs were a breed particularly known for needing to be kept incredibly busy. I've known many to be very active goofuses, but they all can be fairly mellow too. I'm sure a good dose of exercise is a good idea for most dogs -- people too, so it couldn't hurt to up the activity level of OP's dog.

We were recently watching a dog show and joking about the "sales pitch" language the announcers were using when describing some of the breeds, sort of the way something like real estate ads read to soften some of the difficulties and make people think this house is for them. We did talk about how it's kind of a shame that they couldn't be more direct in their comments because that approach left a lot of room for people to cluelessly approach buying certain breeds in particular when the dog has zero likelihood of suiting their lifestyle. Some dogs were "curious, persistent and had a real sense of humor". Others were "very protective of their family or a specific member of their family and known to be wary or skittish with others". Some dogs "like to be busy, like to be in charge of their task assignment and like to be quick and efficient about their duties". It doesn't mean that those are bad dogs, but they can be problematic in the wrong home or family. Hopefully breeders are knowledgeable and ethical about setting the dogs and those who are looking to buy them for success, but that's not always the case.

 

[Be Enchanted]

Well it only took 9 posts for someone to finally point out that the dog needs exercise and something besides sitting home doing nothing for most of the day, and thankfully many other posters advocated the same.

For some, even many, dogs, this is fine. But it sounds like it's not enough for THIS dog. The dog could possibly be a completely different type dog if it had a daily routine with someone that included lots of exercise. (So for that reason, I would support rehoming if you can find such a home for him, not just put him in another unsuitable situation.)

A Labrador Retriever is a dog BRED TO WORK. It's an INNATE NEED for him to be doing something and expending a LOT of energy. His barking and anxious behaviors are because he literally doesn't know what else to do with himself. A working dog will make up his own "job" if you don't give him one. This is a classic dog problem that all the trainers and collars in the world won't be able to fix by themselves.

If you, or someone, were to redirect his energy, there could probably be an amazing transformation. We've all seen it when a previously neglected dog is given the opportunity to blossom. (And I don't mean it to say that your dog is neglected such as an abused dog, as I can hear that you love the dog and are doing the best you can given the circumstances; what I mean is that this dog's needs for work and release of pent up energy are not being met in the situation he's in right now.)

I mean, he may never be the type of dog that's going to be friendly at a dog park (in fact, he should not go there if he is aggressive towards other dogs), or the absolute best behaved ever since he's got a lot of learned negative behaviors now, but he could improve his quality of life so that at least he's not chronically frustrated, destructive and barking. That will be the best hope for this particular dog.

I will reiterate, a tired dog is a happy dog. One that's exhausted from physical and mental exertion. One who's been part of a social group that's doing things, even if this means one person being with the dog during the day, including it in their routine, and going for walks and playing fetch, etc. A contented, sleeping dog is a beautiful thing. As you've seen, an unhappy, frustrated working dog who isn't expending his energy, is not.

OP, as I said, I think rehoming would be a good option. Just try to find a good rescue or appropriate home if you can find anyone willing to take him. But honestly, it might be difficult given what you'd described. I'm sorry that this has happened to you. I have no doubt you love and care about the dog. Really.

I think there's a lot more to talk about on this subject that has to do with picking out the right type of dog when you welcome one into your home and that includes its personality and your lifestyle. Most people probably make more of an emotional choice when they fall in love with a dog and take it home but it may not necessarily be the right dog for them. And of course it may not be the best thing for the dog to go into a situation that's not ideal for them, either. As I said, most dogs probably do fine sitting around all day. But there are some that don't do well at all. Our shelters are full of pets that have become problematic. So sure, adopt from shelters, there are so many pets there. But this isn't really addressing the problems that stem from WHY so many pets are winding up in shelters in the first place. Today, we know so much better. This is why many shelters and rescues try so hard to match the right pet to the right home, and may not even consider a home if it doesn't meet a particular pet's individual needs. They try to set up for success whenever possible.


Well, there you go.

I'm sure many will consider my post here slamming, but the reason I've sat here for the last hour writing this (and even using up my battery and data despite our having NO POWER here given we're in the midst of a Nor'Easter) is because I CARE about this poster and I CARE about the dog, so I want to share my most honest and heartfelt, experienced opinion in the hopes it may just bring another perspective.

This is a subject I'm passionate about, just like you have subjects you are passionate about.

OP, no doubt it is tough to hear this type of advice. But it's the truth. If there are trainers out there saying this problem can be solved with medication and collars, then that truly saddens me.

And that's not to say that there are not some pets who might do well on medications like Prozac for other reasons such as this poster's pet...




... so I am not slamming medication per se. What I am saying is that in THIS situation, what the dog just likely needs is something to do that involves vigorous daily exercise. Every. day. Of course, it's possible that there's more to it than that, especially at this point, but vigorous daily exercise would go a long way towards helping this dog with its problems, as would someone being home with the dog who the dog can take his cues from. THEN you can reassess whether this dog needs medication or not. Perhaps he may, but it should ideally be in conjunction with other interventions.

Also, OP, pick up a book called Good Owners, Great Dogs. It might help you understand your dog's needs more.

Good luck.

Your post was very helpful and I agree with you. He does need way more exercise than we can give to him. And I feel terrible about that but I'm going to be honest and admit it. We purchased him from a breeder as a puppy, so we really had no idea what kind of temperament he would end up having. Our other dog of the same breed is just fine with laying around and sleeping all day and she has no issues.

 

[cabanafrau]

I agree, that was my first reaction too - could he really hear it from inside his house?!? His bark is very loud when you stand outside of our house, you can definitely hear it if you're walking by. His house is pretty close to mine so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was truthful. Perhaps he exaggerated - maybe he was in his backyard with his dog and mine was barking, I'm not sure.

But it's really kind of a moot point since you're aware there are problems with the dog besides the neighbor issue. I hope you find a great solution that does work for the dog and your family.

 

[J'aime Paris]

OP, I totally get what you're going through.

We have a 4 year old lab.
Young labs are full of energy!
She was crazy, naughty, etc. I was tempted to quit on our sweet girl a few times....she was a handful!!

Exercise, exercise, exercise as others have suggested.
It has made a WORLD of difference.
I mix it up between outdoor walks, frisbee playtime in our huge yard, and an indoor swim facility.

We now have a sweet, loving, obedient and beautiful dog!!!

 

[Christine]

Pea-N-Me, has some great points. It's so hard to know what to do.

I just wanted to chime in on one point. Not to beat up or flame the OP, but to put this out there for anyone else reading who may be considering a dog.

Both my husband and I have worked full time all our lives. There was a time when I had 3 dogs at once. After they passed away, I got two more. My last dog is now 17 1/2 years old and not long for us. I am 99% sure I won't get another dog again. Why? Because in my old age and in hindsight, I feel like it was pretty cruel of me to have dogs (one a German Shepherd and very active) and have them locked up all day. What was I thinking? As Pea-N-Me said, they were emotional decisions because I wanted puppies and dogs. I have been pretty lucky that most of mine managed to get used to being stuck in a basement for 10 hours. But if you've got a dog with issues, this is not a good situation.

And dogs do need exercise and when you're gone for 10 hours a day and then you need to come home and do your household stuff and kids, etc, there's really no time for the dog. Anyway, I did say that I have a "barker" next door to me (he is small and neurotic as hell). His owner does exercise him, he gets to run around outside all day, and that doesn't seem to be the cause of his angst (lack of exercise). But I think it certainly can't hurt to try to do all the things that have been suggested. It's probably not "one thing" that is an issue.

 

[Mirielle]

Find a NONworking person who has time to spend with the dog and has land for the dog to run and work.

 

[tzolkin]

And dogs do need exercise and when you're gone for 10 hours a day and then you need to come home and do your household stuff and kids, etc, there's really no time for the dog. .

Yes, this is exactly what I was getting at with my previous post.

We have dogs now (one I trained and volunteer with as a therapy dog), but my kids are older and I only work part time from home so I have the time to invest in training and exercise. When the kids were younger and I worked full time outside of the home, there is no way I could have dedicated enough time each day to any dog, especially not a high-energy or demanding one.

 

[GreatLakes]

My wife did a lot of dog training in the past and still does some at night from time to time. The very first thing she asks people who have high energy dogs is how often are you exercising him? A dog with a lot of energy needs an owner that actively exercises him/her. We had a husky mix with a lot of energy that needed to walk or run every day. My wife or I would do 2 or 3 mile walks or a 1 or 2 mile run every day with him.

She has had a lot of clients who get high energy dogs and when she asks how many miles a day they are walked or run the owner says none. They are just let out in the yard to do their business. That just makes for ill behaved dogs. If you have a high energy dog, and what is seen as anxiety can be pent up energy, you need to exercise them and at their need level, not your comfort level.

ETA: I answered without reading the thread. Glad others saw this as likely an energy issue.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

ITA with all the last posters.

@Christine, I understand what you mean. I really don't have a problem with working people having dogs, as long as, as you've said, the dog gets some attention and fun in there somehow, every day. It's not much of a life for a dog, otherwise. (And there are many low key dogs who are euthanized when they would've been pretty happy in a working person's home under the right circumstances.) I think there are a lot of people who just let their dogs out to go to the bathroom and that's it. (Some don't even get to go out, they use wee wee pads.) That's just not natural for most dogs. If we think of it from the dog's perspective, it's hard on them. Dogs are all about being with others and having some fun in their lives. Think of how hard it is for us to be couped up for a few days - for them, it can be a lifetime. Not that I think most dogs fall into that category, but many do.

@cabanafrau, I hear you about the sales pitch, lol. And yes, Labs are dogs that for centuries have been bred to tirelessly assist humans with hunting. Consider this:

"LABRADOR ORIGINS AND TIMELINE

The Labrador Retriever is a retriever in the class of Sporting dogs. They are considered a 'flushing' dog that will retrieve the game for the hunter once down. They are generally used to hunt both upland game birds and waterfowl. More recently some have worked on perfecting a pointing characteristic with Labradors. No matter what it's AKC classification, Labradors have come to be one of the favorite family house pets in America today due to its wonderful personality, gentle disposition and loyalty.

Labrador Retrievers were recognized in England as a Kennel Club breed in 1903 and first registered by the AKC in the United States of America in 1917. Labradors were originally called a St. John's Dog or lesser Newfoundland dog. The breed was in Newfoundland in the 1700's and imported to England beginning the early 1800's. The Labrador's exact origin unknown but some speculate the Greater Newfoundland dog or the French St. Hubert's dog is part of the cross that made the St. John's dog.

In 1887 the Earl of Malmesbury first coined the name Labrador in a letter he wrote referring the them as his Labrador Dogs. The Territory of Labrador is just Northwest of Newfoundland geographically. Richard Wolters in his book the "Labrador Retriever" writes that the 19th century Brits lumped that area together as the same land mass, so it could have referred to dogs from that area.

Newfoundland was settled by English fisherman as early as the 1500's and the St. John's dogs seemed to develop along with the fishing occupation . The English fisherman in Newfoundland used the St. John's dog to retrieve fish that had fallen off their hooks as well to help haul in fishing lines through the water. The St. John's dogs were considered "workaholics" and enjoyed the retrieving tasks given in the fishing environment. This breed was very eager to please and their retrieving abilities made them ideal for hunting companions and sporting dogs. In today's world many see their hunting companion as living for the sport. He will break ice to retrieve birds only to return and wait for the next one to come down. You have to keep an eye on the dog in warm weather as he will gladly work beyond his physical abilities and even overheat if you don't watch him. It was said that the dogs would work long hours with the fisherman in the cold waters, then be brought home to play with the fisherman's children. The wonderful temperament of the Labrador Retriever is documented back to its early days in England and has made them ideal family pets as well as accomplished sporting dogs."

http://www.lorkenfarms.com/labrador Retriever history.htm


Huge working dog! "Will gladly work beyond his physical abllities and will overheat if you don't watch him." "Considered workaholics." "Living for the sport." Etc.

A lot of dogs similarly have inbred characteristics in their backgrounds, differing on whatever it is they were bred for. (Some were bred to sit on kings' laps, but even that should be considered when selecting a dog!) There are a number of posters here who work with dogs or breed or show them who are very forthcoming about what their dogs are bred to do and like to live with. There was someone who posted the other day that her dogs might "eat another dog" (paraphrasing) - not sure that type of dog would be to my liking, lol, but point being that it's the type of dog she likes and she's learned to live with them and presumably meet their needs. We have a type of dog that was bred to kill vermin - and we have a hamster! We work diligently to keep the hamster safe, but with a lot of work, the dog's heart rate doesn't even go up when he sees the hamster now. Unlike when he sees a squirrel outside and goes crazy! But it's something we took into consideration when we decided to get that type of dog.

If you haven't had a chance to watch the Westminster Kennel Club dog show (I think it runs in February), it's really interesting to hear what they have to say about each breed, and each class of dog (Working, Herding, Sporting, Toy, etc.). It's really interesting to me that dogs within the same breed can have similar traits, but different or unique personalities that make them who they are. My guess is that this particular dog in the OP has a very strong desire to "work", and sitting home doing nothing just isn't cutting it for him. That's why he's barking and destructive. The poor *other* dog, it may be causing him stress, too, as he probably knows what his brother's doing is "wrong". (And also a good argument that having two dogs to keep eachother company doesn't necessarily always solve problems.)

In thinking about the neighbor here, I agree we have to give a lot of credit to this guy for coming over and respectfully discussing the problem with you, OP. I think I've read at least two stories in the past couple of days where dogs were killed because people, likely neighbors, were tired of their barking. One was chilling as it was caught on video - someone just came over to the yard and shot the dog. Truly awful that it came to that. I can understand your concerns about it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And ironically enough, I mentioned we were in the midst of a Nor'Easter here and I am along the coast where great flooding is occurring, my DH is outside throwing a ball for our dog in the yard! Not because he felt like going out there, but because he saw that the dog needed to release some energy. And I have not told him what I'm writing about here! Haha!

 

[dosekies]

I agree that this dog needs a lot more exercise. I completely understand that he needs to be left at home while you work, my dog does too. But because of that, we make sure to take her on walks multiple times a day: before work, after work, and before bed.

However I think the biggest problem here is training. I know you already tried a trainer, but different trainers have different techniques and you said it was at the house. I think you should try a board and train. This training sounds like it is something that needs to be consistent from the time you start, not just someone that comes to the house a few times over a few weeks. My dog has anxiety and needs to be close to us at all times, but her board and train was the best thing we ever did for her. We left her for a week (probably should have done another though) and she honestly came back as a whole new dog. Do your research and find a highly recommended facility that will do this. But it is also important that the training continue at home at all times with extreme consistency.

I also agree that a crate might be good to try. I can only speak from experience, but my dog has more anxiety when we leave her out of her crate while we are gone than when we leave her in it. I think she has learned that when she goes in the crate she is safe and she knows we will be back home eventually. When she is out of the crate and we leave, we always come back to her being extra jumpy and anxious and can hear her barking out the window when were leaving/coming back to the parking lot.

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

I just wanted to give you a digital hug . You seem like a responsible dog person who is doing the best you can. I hope you can find a new home for your dog where he can get the exercise he needs. Not everyone has a life that makes it possible to exercise a very high energy dog enough to calm him down, and he does seem to need a "job" and a way to become happily exhausted. Good luck!

 

[AquamarineSteph]

I have nothing to add to this thread which has not already been said, but I wanted to say two quick things. For the OP - thank you for handling this so well. You're clearly trying to take your dog's needs into account as well as your neighbor's. That is rare in some neighborhoods.

And second, to everybody who has posted here so far - wow! I think everyone has been kind and supportive, even with the various types of advice. That's just so cool!

 

[MolonLabe]

Kudos to both of you for talking to each other. A anti-barking collar *should* solve that issue but the other issues... 99% of the time I would say there is no such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners. Sometimes though you just can't fix/change a creature. It sounds like you really care and have tried pretty hard. I don't really have any magic answers for you but to say thanks for trying to be a considerate neighbor.

Everytime I hear about stories like this it makes me so much happier I'm out of the subdivision. We're on over a dozen acres and it's pure bliss.

 

[handinpocket]

We have a pup that is SUCH a pill....chews anything in sight (yes, she gets plenty of exercise), aggressive to all other animals and barks and barks. She is our family so we deal. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but we adopted her, we are her parents. Yes, I know she isn't human, but humans can be gauged by how they treat their pets......

 

[Shanti]

The barking is not the only issue we have with our dog. He's a 3 year old lab, very rambunctious. Due to the noise complaints, we will now be locking him and our other dog in the basement every time we leave the house to try to muffle the noise. I'm not sure what other options we have besides a collar that would zap him every time he barks? We've tried a professional trainer...When my daughter has friends over we have to put him away because he scares the other kids...I guess I'm just feeling a little exhausted from dealing with him. My heart aches even considering the idea of rehoming him and DH was very opposed when I mentioned the thought. He's part of our family, but I'm starting to wonder if we are the best family for HIM and vice versa. DH and I both work so he's home all day for 9-10 hours

Perspective of a person who fosters troubled rescue dogs & has adopted rescue dogs, including an abused dog with severe anxiety:

It doesn't sound like your home is a good fit for this dog, so if you can find another home for him, that would be best. This dog needs daily exercise that you admit you're not providing. The dog park isn't where you need to start with that, just daily walks.

The dog trainer you worked with doesn't sound very skilled. A shock collar for barking is very extreme and is a band-aid over the larger problem that this dog needs more exercise, stimulation & interaction than he will likely ever receive in your household.

There are other people & homes whose lifestyles would better meet your dog's needs, and dogs do adapt to new homes. Being shut in the basement all day would create a very low quality of life for this animal. Being "part of the family" doesn't make up for that. Please help him to have a better life somewhere else. That is the way you will show how much you really care about him.

 

[Christine]

I have nothing to add to this thread which has not already been said, but I wanted to say two quick things. For the OP - thank you for handling this so well. You're clearly trying to take your dog's needs into account as well as your neighbor's. That is rare in some neighborhoods.

And second, to everybody who has posted here so far - wow! I think everyone has been kind and supportive, even with the various types of advice. That's just so cool!

I think that the reason this thread is going so well is due to the OP herself. She readily admits the truth, isn't afraid to acknowledge her part in it, and sincerely wants to work it out with the neighbors. She is also taking the advice really well without showing defensiveness when people are trying to be helpful. This sort of attitude is rarely seen today. Usually posters here who get flamed refuse to see anything attributed to them and it's all about them. I think we all just appreciate a little honesty.

 

[John VN]

please, PLEASE, PLEASE find another home for that energetic bundle of joy. I have a neighbor 2 blocks away with a barking dog, YES---2 blocks away!!!

A home that can provide room to roam, EXERCISE, and attention throughout the day. NO DRUGS or SHOCK COLLAR, just LOVE.

Hope I didn't offend anyone but I am not a dog owner or lover, just someone constantly being bothered by a dog that is doing what it is genetically engineered to do with an owner that IMO is clueless when it comes to the rights of others.

 

[dosekies]

Does your dog have basic training - know sit, stay, etc? I ask because from experience in my area, it would be very hard to rehome if you don't already know someone who is willing to take him. If you would need to bring him to a shelter, it (again, only from my experience!) would be very hard for him to find a home. I am very familiar with multiple shelters in my area and there are dogs at each of them that have been there for years because they are not attractive to people looking to adopt - they're not puppies, they're loud, they jump all over their cages when people walk by, etc. I completely understand that rehoming might be the best situation for you both, but I would suggest trying more training before that at least for the dog's sake so that if he does end up at the shelter, he can hopefully look like a 'good boy' and end up at a great home!

 

[cabanafrau]

For those who enjoy dogs and might occasionally watch the dog shows for fun I recommend keeping an eye out when they broadcast the agility competitions. It takes a lot of training to get a dog ready to compete on changing courses and follow all of the rules. You have never seen happier dogs in your life. Nearly every dog finishes their run through with a full tilt run and jump into their trainer's arms, usually the trainer is the owner.

We nearly died laughing at the toy breeds competing, particularly on the see saw obstacle. Really entertaining to watch and it truly highlights a lot of what those announcers are blabbing on about each breed during the actual dog shows. It's so wonderful to see the bond of the dog and the owner -- even when 80 pounds of lab is diving in their arms at about mach 10.