Need your opinion about a problem with a school

[blanq]

F...U...N...N...Y!!

 

[pperfectmom]

I'm sorry but I feel like the public school systems have just become obsessed with the almighty dollar. That's why they want your A student there for the tests. They'll also miss out on the sodas and cookies he would have got out of the vending machine afterwards. I was always one of those A students that hated to be there. At least it was in the days before the parents would be threatened with jail time! I am seriously contemplating homeschooling my two for this very reason (among others). I wish you luck with your dilemma.

 

[blanq]

Go around the principal and speak with the superintendant of the school system in your town. Tell the superintendant that the principal is refusing to give our work for a planned absence. The principal is making it harder for your child to learn and keep up, not easier. I also don't think that it is the principal's place to tell you that you can't have work in advance. Over here, it is the teacher's choice. When I was in elementary school, fifth grade I think, we went on a cruise and missed a week of school. All that I had to do was keep a journal. I don't think that you will have a problem if you give the principal a piece of your mind. Be assertive!

I respectfully disagree with this approach. It is not the teachers or principals responsibility to give out work in advance of an absence. It is not the teacher or principal that is "making it hard for your child to learn and keep up", it's the parent pulling the kid from school who is. I have pulled my child out of school for family vacations since he was in K, and he is now in 8th grade, but I do so with the understanding that his teacher (and the school's policies, which the principal is entitled to enforce) gets to decide when and if he gets to make up the work, and under what conditions. I think that giving anyone a piece of your mind over this issue is begging trouble and ill-will.

 

[OceanStateKelly]

I always thought that school systems get more money if they do poorly on these test and others schools who do good- get less and a pat on the back.. just my thoughts

 

[Wendy1953]

Okay, the original poster has now stated that once the principal was told the child would take the test and then go on vacation, it was okay! Why is everyone here on the Dis boards still going on about this???? I believe we all should now accept the principal and mother's decisions, and get on with planning our next 6 vacations to WDW!!!! But, before I leave this thread.....BRAVO to Mom for altering her plans so her child wouldn't miss a state mandated test, and BRAVO to the Principal for accepting the fact that the Mom wants the best for her child, and the biggest BRAVO goes to the child....maintaining an A average is an extremely big accomplishment, and he certainly deserves his prize of a vacation in WDW!!!!!

 

[denecarter]

1. No Child Left Behind and State Mandates (usually set by the legislature)lay down very strict guidelines that MUST be followed (teaching licenses can and have been lost).
2. There are certain ways that a school's rating can be lowered such as overall attendance, overall passing rates, passing rates of sub groups (ethnic and socio-economic), and PERCENTAGE OF STUDENTS WHO TAKE THE REQUIRED TESTS not reaching a pre-determined level.
3. "Makeup" tests are only given for certain subjects and at a certain time (like the day after). In some cases (high school for instance), there are "retests" when a test has to be passed or a student can't advance or graduate.
4. Sometimes one or two students is all it takes to fall below the pre-determined performance level for a subgroup.
5 If a school falls behind in too many categories, there is hell to pay... it is not pretty, it is not fun, there is extra work and training for everyone, including the students.
6. As time goes by, more and more of the required tests will determine whether or not a child advances... it is being phased in. High school students already must pass all the tests to graduate. Elementary students have begun to be requied to pass certain tests and every year or two the requirements change to add new key grades/tests that must be passed.
7. Personally, I think the tests suck. I hate them, I hate having everything I do be driven by one stupid test that they don't even give in my grade (9th grade science). Do I do what the Principal, School Board, District, State, and Federal folks say I have to do... yes. I don't like it but I do it because I HAVE TO... just because I don't like a law doesn't mean I don't have to follow it.
8. I REALLY wish they'd change the laws... and I do vote with that in mind. "Accountability" is a nice idea, but this is a case of the medicine being worse than the disease.

I'll get off my soapbox now and go back to my regularly scheduled Disney obsession.

 

[Mo-Yo]

Hey,

Ya think I would have learned to stay out of an always-controversial "Taking My Kids Out of School for Disney" thread, but I couldn't resist this one because I get to argue the opposite side of how I normally feel.

Normally, I am a BIG fan of family vacations. Some of my best childhood memories are the (work) sales conferences my dad won and parlayed into awesome family vacations (usually during the school year). I usually feel like families should be able to take vacations together when they can...and within reason, when they want to. I even believe it can be beneficial to take a breather "mid-swim" so to speak - after all most employers offer personal days, don't they?

HOWEVER, in this case, I agree with the other posters who talked about the tough spot, your school principal is in. Standardized tests are a monster that have taken over our school systems, is you ask me, and I would support re-vamping the system altogether. But, with that said, for now they part of the "No Child Left Behind" mess, and schools have no choice in the matter.

You mentioned, the tests are a "report card" for your school, and they are. They are also the gauge by which state funding and even teacher and administrator employment are based.

I would take my kids out of school in a heartbeat any other time of the year. But in spite of the fact that I seriously question the value of standardized testing, I would make sure my kids were there for it.

We can make up the missed work. But it's a lot harder to repair the damage and loss of school funding that happens when a distict is designated "In Need of Improvement" by a state's bureacracy. And since your son is a stand-out student, the school is depending on him more than ever.

For what it's worth, I think you made a great choice by moving your departure time. Have a great family vacation. After all that STUPID testing, your son will enjoy it even more.

 

[JPN4265]

Ok, long story short, we have had Disney plans for April, and had to cancel unexpectedly. In July, we planned to go in Oct. Needless to say, we are eager to go! 10 days to go to our trip and my son's school principal calls me and gives me a hard time. Turns out he will miss one day of a 3-day state test, (he's in the 3rd grade). The Principal also stated that she will absolutely not send him with any homework nor will she give him anything to read (chapters, etc in his books). She says he will have to do all that during recess and afterschool each day when he gets back. To me, it sounds like she is trying to punish him. Keep in mind he is an "A" student and had perfect attendance last year (he got an award for it). Also, this state test has no bearing on his grade, it just allows the state to monitor each school district. In my opinion, from the tone of her voice, it sounded like she was more concerned over that test than his education.

What really erks me is that my stepdaughter, who attends a different school (different town) and is the 4th grade, her school is giving her some homework to do so she doesn't fall to far behind.

Sounds like its more about the State mandated testing then the homework. The school doesn't have much control over the testing. Doesn't matter if your child is an 'A" student or not.

 

[alicenwonder99]

I really don't have any more to add about the testing. Regarding the homework, I just wanted to let you know that my children's school has a policy that they do not give out homework in advance to children who go on vacation. In fact, the ONLY homework the kids' teachers give them is to HAVE FUN. When we got back, the kids had a pile of worksheets to do. Ds who is in Kindergarten got them finished the first day. Dd who is in 2nd grade has a week to complete them all.

 

[Belle2667]

I just can't help but feel like the students who have good grades and good attendance are being punished (not taking vacations or having to make up work at their own expense, or even getting zeros for missed days) because the schools have "standards" they need to meet. Am I the only one?

I fully understand it's the government and that the school districts will lose funding and people could lose jobs and such, but why isn't more being done to educate the other kids? I know it's hard to do, but if more attention was given to some of the "sub-standard" kids, and they could be brought to standard, they would take the pressure off the the students who are excelling, and increase their pool of good kids.

I know people will say that the intent of school districts is to educate everyone, however I feel that they are spending too much time policing the vacation habits (5 days per year) of my straight A children, and not enough on Johnny down the street, who really needs it.

I have consistently taken my children out of school for 5 days each school year (all through high school, too), and I will continue to do so. I plan it around the school testing, however our school is not very helpful in making up work. Whichever marking period we are gone, I'm more lenient if the grades slip a little because I feel our family time is more important.

 

[seashoreCM]

Since the schoolwork has to eventually be done sometime -- (1) before the vacation, (2) during the vacation, or (3) after the vacation -- why do you consider it punishment?

(There is a "(4) some remote disjoint time of year" but I won't get into that because that is synonymous with not being promoted to the next grade.)

 

[yaksack]

Ok, long story short, we have had Disney plans for April, and had to cancel unexpectedly. In July, we planned to go in Oct. Needless to say, we are eager to go! 10 days to go to our trip and my son's school principal calls me and gives me a hard time. Turns out he will miss one day of a 3-day state test, (he's in the 3rd grade). The Principal also stated that she will absolutely not send him with any homework nor will she give him anything to read (chapters, etc in his books). She says he will have to do all that during recess and afterschool each day when he gets back. To me, it sounds like she is trying to punish him. Keep in mind he is an "A" student and had perfect attendance last year (he got an award for it). Also, this state test has no bearing on his grade, it just allows the state to monitor each school district. In my opinion, from the tone of her voice, it sounded like she was more concerned over that test than his education.

What really erks me is that my stepdaughter, who attends a different school (different town) and is the 4th grade, her school is giving her some homework to do so she doesn't fall to far behind.

I do not know why you child would not be able to make take the test on the next school day. What do they do if a kid gets sick?
If the principal still acts like an idiot, contact the superintendent.

What State do you live in?

 

[kaytieeldr]

These responses have been extremely interesting...

First, the term "civil servant" has apparently developed a somewhat derogatory meaning and should be eliminated from our vocabulary. A better term would be government employees; the ideal reference would be the use of the actual position (Principal; teacher; road-test administrator; President...)

Indirectly, yes, educational staff works "for" the taxpayer; however, the actual JOB is to educate students. Would the posters in this thread who are suggesting ignoring the Principal's requirements be happier if y'all just sent your children to school for six or more hours a day and they were taught nothing? THEN the educators wouldn't be doing their respective jobs, what they were hired to do.

Somebody suggested ignoring the Principal and going right to the teacher, that in the past they've been given work in advance by the teachers. If the school's (aka Principal's/Superintendent's/School Board's) policies did not allow this, the teacher wouldn't be able to do it. Teachers aren't autonomous.

Other posts suggest ignoring the Principal and going to the Superintendent. As I implied above, policies and practices may vary from city to city, town to town, state to state - but they'd most likely be consistent within a district. This means the principal likely didn't set the policy, that he or she is simply enforcing the decisions and rules from above - and that IF the practice of one or more teachers varies from the set policy, that would be an anomaly and NOT the rule.

 

[Mo-Yo]

I view my children's teachers as partners in their education.

Do I always agree with them? No.

Nor do I always agree with my husband, my kids' coaches or my extended families on matters that relate to helping my kids grow into intelligent, curious, productive, and sensitive human beings. Still, they are my partners, and I communicate with them as best as I can and trust them.

I also want the best for them, and I want the best for my children's school and for their classmates. In the end, it is a selfish decision to support my school district because it benefits my children and my community.

I would feel terrible if my teachers lost a bonus after working so hard to help my children. I would feel terrible if my school lost funding and had to cut programs that benefit my children and their classmates.

Maybe, I am misunderstanding, but I really don't understand how scheduling a Disney vacation and disregarding school rules - whenever you feel like it - is a right granted in the Constitution.

I will say I am fortunate that my school district has been great about working with us when we take our kids out of school for Disney or any other short trip.

BUT, I feel teachers have the latitude to make their own policy about make-up work. And I feel the adminstration has the right to disuade you from going at a certain time. They also have no obligation to give you the warm-fuzzies about a decision that could have detrimental effects on the system as a whole.

Teachers and adminstrators are under A LOT of pressure lately from ominous federal laws and mandates that hold them accountable for a host of issues well beyond their control. One issue they have some small amount of control over is approving or disapproving absences and a setting policy that benefits the school as a whole.

 

[kvogel11202]

I just can't help but feel like the students who have good grades and good attendance are being punished (not taking vacations or having to make up work at their own expense, or even getting zeros for missed days) because the schools have "standards" they need to meet. Am I the only one?

I fully understand it's the government and that the school districts will lose funding and people could lose jobs and such, but why isn't more being done to educate the other kids? I know it's hard to do, but if more attention was given to some of the "sub-standard" kids, and they could be brought to standard, they would take the pressure off the the students who are excelling, and increase their pool of good kids.

I know people will say that the intent of school districts is to educate everyone, however I feel that they are spending too much time policing the vacation habits (5 days per year) of my straight A children, and not enough on Johnny down the street, who really needs it.

I have consistently taken my children out of school for 5 days each school year (all through high school, too), and I will continue to do so. I plan it around the school testing, however our school is not very helpful in making up work. Whichever marking period we are gone, I'm more lenient if the grades slip a little because I feel our family time is more important.

Just had to respond to this, as I posted on another thread about my trouble taking my kids out of school. DS7 teacher was fine, giving him paperwork to bring in the car- 26 hour ride! Wished us a happy vacation. DS11 teacher was really nasty about it, this was after we sat and waited 15 minutes to talk to her while she assisted another family in how to help their daughter learn to speak english. They were chinese, and when asked if they spoke english at home answered a resounding "NO!" with a horrified look on their face. When I got home I asked my son what they did during the day, he told me they work on the usual stuff, math, social studies, ect. I asked if they had reading groups, he told me that after lunch they sit at their desks and read. I delved further to see what is the teacher doing during this time- she's working with the kids who can't read their papers to help them. So I'm all done worrying about pulling my A student out of school, or that teachers nasty attitude, since she apparently has no problem wasting not only MY time, but my sons time as well. My kid sits there reading while she tutors Non-English speaking kids??? Also, since someone got very offended when I related my tale of woe, I have total respect for what teachers have to deal with these days, but this teacher showed no respect for me, nor my family.

 

[mandy200587]

Where I went to school, keep in mind I just graduated two years ago, by the time I left the education aspect had left the door and promises that had been made are broken. Our old school board attendent was all about the gateways and this wonderful program called IB program which costs ore than standards test and only has not even 200 students enrolled.

When I missed school even a day to go out of town early I had to fight with my principal. Granted the Assistant was a ***** but we always made sure it wasn't around a test or something.

Gateways here can be made up even if you aren't in the class at that time. Do they count here towards graduation. You can bet your butt they do, you can walk just don't accept anything when you do.

I say take them out, even my nephew when we visted him in May this year his teacher let him miss and he's in advance classes in 2nd grade, she said family time is more important.

 

[Sunny37]

You are totally right. No one cares about educating kids any more, just getting those test scores. The fact that your son gets good grades makes him more valuable dollar wise to the school.

That's just not true.

 

[Mo-Yo]

Okay, I'm admittedly a bit off topic here, but I have to respond.

When I taught school 15 years ago teachers employed Sustained Silent Reading (SSR) every day. My kids's teachers do the same today.
They may not be receiving direct instruction during that period of time (usually 15-20 minutes), but they are benefitting from uninterupted time to read - a skill which will build vocabulary, increase comprehension and occassionally broaden their world view. In a world where kids are consumed by tv and video, SSR is a brief period every day for them to fall in love with a book of their choice.

As for children of Chinese parents speaking Chinese at home, I applaud them. Their children might struggle now a bit, but as they grow, they will learn to speak and write 2 very difficult languages. How fortunate for them and for us!!

Maybe some day they will grow up and help our country to communicate with foreign goverments on peace negotiations, environmental policy or trade reform. Maybe they'll start an international business that benefits our economy.

If I were you, I'd ask the teachers to let your kids sit next to the Chinese students. Maybe they'll pick up a few new words or a love of language that could pay back in dividends later when they grow to be intelligent, well-rounded and compassionate adults.

And if there are Spanish-speaking kids in class, do the same. Future opportunities for bi-lingual folks are virtually endless.

The benefits of diversity are found well beyond a good meal and a beer at EPCOT.

 

[Karnak]

I respectfully disagree with this approach. It is not the teachers or principals responsibility to give out work in advance of an absence. It is not the teacher or principal that is "making it hard for your child to learn and keep up", it's the parent pulling the kid from school who is.

I couldn't agree more. It is the parent's responsibility to send their children to school, or provide them with state approved home schooling. A trip to WDW is nice, but can not replace formal education.

I remember back in my teaching days at a Kentucky public high school, when a local church planned a week-long "retreat" at a ski lodge out west somewhere. It was the church's position that the faculty should be responsible for giving the students who attended the retreat "make up" work, and if the teachers did not do so, legal action might follow. My public response to that announcement was, "Get your lawyers ready. I will not give any make up work for this trip." Almost all of the faculty held the same position.

The trip was canceled, and the church didn't try that again.

In Kentucky, as with most other states, the school year is about 180 days in length, which leaves the other 185 free for vacations, etc. If a parent can't plan trips within those 185 days, then trips should not be scheduled.

I might add that my wife and I raised five children, and they never missed a day of school because of a family trip or vacation.

Enjoy.

 

[cleo]

I missed my share of school and went on to earn a Doctoral degree in Bioenergetic Medicine. Pull 'em out. They'll be fine.