Need some help with visas!

[a_hobden]

My friend and I are planning to go to disney in may of next year. We have flights booked etc.. but we have a problem. My friend has never travelled to the U.S before he has been told by some that he will need a visa but others think he wont. On his criminal record he has:
1 count of criminal damage and possetion of cannabis resin (very small amount might I add and it is most definatley in his past now!) It went no further than questioning and he was given an official warning. All of this went on when he was about 15 years old. He will be 19 when we travel. We really dont know weather to risk it and not get a proper visa as he was a minor and it never led to court or anything like that. But is it really worth the risk? any help would be appriciated!!

 

[gilld]

You will get different views on this, but personally I always feel the truth is best. If he is now of good character and can get written evidence to support this, he shouldn't have a problem getting a visa. Good luck.

 

[kristieuk]

If you do a search on this board about visas for those with criminal convictions, you should get a load of results. It's pretty split between those who say US authorities cannot access records, so go for it, and those who say that honesty is the best policy (the view that I personally hold).

It's down to personal choice at the end of the day. Good luck whatever is decided!

 

[Queenie]

I'm not exactly sure on this but I do know that the US authorities are particularly strict about ANYTHING to do with drugs, even tiny amounts. Personally I'd rather not risk it knowing just how bad they are with drug related stuff.

 

[jen_uk]

If he was only given a warning and not convicted then I wouldnt bother getting a visa. I know some say its better to be honest but once you have admitted that is on his record then they will have that info life and he will always have to apply. The US takes all drug offences very seriously and you might find they automatically turn him down. Theres no way the US will know that he got a warning esp if it didnt end up in court, the only people who will have that info is the local police where you live as it will only be on their computers and not the national ones.

 

[kristieuk]

If by an 'official warning', you mean he was cautioned, it will show as an entry on his criminal record.

That said, I think most people here will tell you that there is no instant direct link from US Immigration to the Police National Computer in this country ie they would have to call the authorities in this country to check if they were supsicious. I don't know that to be a fact, but I wouldn't be surprised.

The point is, if he ticks the Visa Waiver form to say he has no criminal convictions and he does, he is committing an offence in itself, and I would imagine the US authorities would deal with this as a serious matter if they were to find out - particularly as he appears to have a drug conviction, and this is one offence they do take seriously.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/vwp.html

If you follow this link to the US Embassy website, there is plenty more information.
There is a link from there dealing with arrests and convictions - and apparently, it seems you should apply for a Visa even if only arrested and never convicted! That sounds crazy to me, but that's what it says.

 

[musketeer]

If by an 'official warning', you mean he was cautioned, it will show as an entry on his criminal record, and it does count as a conviction.

That said, I think most people here will tell you that there is no instant direct link from US Immigration to the Police National Computer in this country ie they would have to call the authorities in this country to check if they were supsicious. I don't know that to be a fact, but I wouldn't be surprised.

The point is, if he ticks the Visa Waiver form to say he has no criminal convictions and he does, he is committing an offence in itself, and I would imagine the US authorities would deal with this as a serious matter if they were to find out - particularly as he appears to have a drug conviction, and this is one offence they do take seriously.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/vwp.html

If you follow this link to the US Embassy website, there is plenty more information.
There is a link from there dealing with arrests and convictions - and apparently, it seems you should apply for a Visa even if only arrested and never convicted! That sounds crazy to me, but that's what it says.

I have the same problem my son was arrested about a month ago, he wasn't charged or even cautioned and the police said that there would be no further action but when i rang the US embassy they said that he needed a visa but i couldn't make an appointment because i have to send off for a letter from Scotland Yard to see what information they have on him, so i'm going to wait until this letter comes through to see if this incident is on there.
If it's not then what do you do, as the Us embassy can't issue a visa if there is nothing on this letter.

 

[kristieuk]

Gosh - they do seem to make these things difficult. I can understand the thinking for convictions, but arrested and no further action? That must happen to millions of people a year!

I don't know the answer if the letter from Scotland Yard doesn't show anything. Is that where the arresting officer was based? If not, I would have thought that they needed the information from the police station he was taken to.

What was your son arrested for?

 

[musketeer]

my son was arrested on suspision of trying to break into a social club only .
wiil post more later

 

[kristieuk]

Well, hopefully the fact it's a comparatively minor offence will stand you in good stead. All the best of luck.

 

[musketeer]

The arresting officer is not based at scotland yard, but when i phoned the police station that he was taken to they wouldn't issue a letter just said that i had to send off for this form from the police headquarters in Winchester and then i would have to to send it back to them and then it would be forwarded to Scotland Yard.

I did try and find out which station he was based at but i've been given several diffent police stations and he's not based at any of them.

My son and his friend went up to pick some apples and they noticed a broken window in this social club and were only stood there looking at this broken window they were also with another mate who when the police came said that my son and his friend had broken into this social club.

 

[~Piglet~]

My Sister's partner had a years old conviction for being drunk & disorderly (hardly the crime of the century ). They booked a last minute holiday and didn't have time to apply for a visa as it was too short notice. He didn't declare his conviction on his waiver form and they had no problems.

 

[a_hobden]

So is there any way that the US would know about his convictions? since he has only had a warning? nothing has gone any further than what he calls "a slap on the wrist?"

 

[jen_uk]

No there is no way the US will know, the only people that are red flagged on the US computers are people that are in any way related to terrorism. As I said before a warning doesnt even make it onto the police national computers its only on the computer at the local one, if it was just really a slap on the wrist it might not even be on there. I know this bcos Ive had to have a criminal disclosure done on me for my job and the CRB have to check the national police files and then they check the local ones and they told me that they have to do bcos minor offences dont show up on the national police computers. The US does not have access to local police files! If you apply for a visa they will have that info for life, its not worth it for such a small thing.

 

[kristieuk]

No there is no way the US will know, the only people that are red flagged on the US computers are people that are in any way related to terrorism. As I said before a warning doesnt even make it onto the police national computers its only on the computer at the local one, if it was just really a slap on the wrist it might not even be on there. I know this bcos Ive had to have a criminal disclosure done on me for my job and the CRB have to check the national police files and then they check the local ones and they told me that they have to do bcos minor offences dont show up on the national police computers. The US does not have access to local police files! If you apply for a visa they will have that info for life, its not worth it for such a small thing.

I'm not sure that this is right. When we get people's previous convictions at work (I am a criminal solicitor), it's basically a printout from the Police National Computer and it shows all convictions, cautions, and outstanding matters, whatever they may be. It also shows the penalty imposed for each matter. I can guarantee that the printouts we get contain all offences, no matter how minor (but they will not show fixed penalty speeding matters, as these don't actually count as criminal convictions).

A friendly 'warning' would not show, although since a case had been investigated, there would be local police station records for it. This is the same in the case where a person has been arrested but not charged, or indeed a person who was acquitted.

A formal caution will show (a caution will only normally be given eg for first time minor offence such as shoplifting, and if the person accepts they are guilty).

I think it's right that the Immigration Officers at US airports can't simply input a name and gain direct information from the UK. However, I don't know whether they select random Visa Waiver Forms after admittance to the US has been allowed, and check whether the person was telling the truth on the form? I guess they don't make it clear what checks they make / can make, so as to encourage people to tell the truth in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I think that in many cases, it is an unfair and lengthy process just to go on holiday, but rules are rules, and I for one wouldn't want to be on the end of a broken rule with US Immigration.

 

[a_hobden]

Well for now were going to wait and see what comes back from the police station! He has sent away for all of his police records to be sent to him. He seems to think that the records may have been wiped since it was a good few years ago but im more sceptical! Im not sure if I will risk it. It would be awfull to save and look foward to a holiday and then have him get in trouble at customs!

 

[kristieuk]

Sorry to keep jumping on this thread, but the records are not ever wiped, and the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act doesn't apply in this situation (ie in some cases and for some offences, after a certain amount of time has passed, you no longer have an obligation to declare an offence, but if anyone is entitled to look at your PNC printout, it will still show).

 

[musketeer]

Well for now were going to wait and see what comes back from the police station! He has sent away for all of his police records to be sent to him. He seems to think that the records may have been wiped since it was a good few years ago but im more sceptical! Im not sure if I will risk it. It would be awfull to save and look foward to a holiday and then have him get in trouble at customs!

Sorry to have butted in on this thread, but i have done the same sent away for the police records to come back and then decide what to do.

Hope you have a great trip in may

Tracy

 

[UkJamesF]

On his criminal record he has:
1 count of criminal damage and possetion of cannabis resin (very small amount might I add and it is most definatley in his past now!) It went no further than questioning and he was given an official warning.

I got caught with a small amount of cannabis resin. I was taken to police station and given a caution. I already had a holiday booked. It is so NOT clear on this type of thing. On the visa waiver form you fill in on arrival to the US it says if you have been arrested you need a visa. I was not clear if my mishap was an arrest. I went to the police station and asked them if i had been arrested. They didn't know. For the safest bet i went down to London and got a 5 year B2 visa no problem. When i then travelled to the US i got pulled into the area behind immagration. I got interviewed and they asked me why i needed a visa. I told them and they said it was fine. I don't know what comes up on their system but i got the impression they thought i was some kind of drug dealer and upon my correction apologised for the incovience and sent me on my way. This July i got through without no problems. I'm still not sure if i needed one but i thought better safe than sorry. One of my friends who had a similar incident but multiple times travelled with me and got through fine. Hope it helps somehow.

 

[jen_uk]

Sorry to keep jumping on this thread, but the records are not ever wiped, and the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act doesn't apply in this situation (ie in some cases and for some offences, after a certain amount of time has passed, you no longer have an obligation to declare an offence, but if anyone is entitled to look at your PNC printout, it will still show).

Cautions do get wiped off, I had a caution about 12 years ago and when I had my CRB check it wasnt on the list and when I questionned why I was told by both the police and CRB that usually after 5 years cautions get wiped off. Spent convictions never get wiped off but cautions do.