Need some advice on the neighbor boys

[Not so Dumbo]

I need some advice and also just to vent.
My boys ( almost 6 and 8) have been playing with the neighbor twins (7yo) a lot lately and a there have already been a couple of incidents that I'm not sure that I handled right.
The first one was on Sunday, the boys had all been playing together the whole day and my DS8 came home and asked if he could spend the night, it was already ok with the neighbor's dad. I said ok, but then thought what about DS6? But DS8 had already run off to pack his bag with DS6 right behind him. Afew minutes later, DS6 comes back crying his eyes out saying that the twins told him he wasn't invited, just DS8. So DH goes to talk to the boys and says that they have all been playing together all day and it isn't nice not to invite DS6. The twins said that they could only have 1 friend over at a time, so DH told DS8 that a sleep over wasn't going to work and he had to stay home too.
The second incident happend today. The twins came over and asked DS8 if he could play, he came to ask me and I asked him where they planned on playing (it's raining out) DS comes back and says they have to play here, because we can't play at their house I thought that was a bit rude to come over and say they have to play here. So anyhow, all four were downstairs playing for an hour or so and they come up and start horsing around and told them they had to stay downstairs (that's where all of the toys are) so the twins wanted to go back to their house ( I guess it's alright that they play there now ) anyhow everyone was putting their shoes on and the twins tell DS6 that he can't come and they don't want him following them. And again, DS6 is upset and crying. So I told DS8 that he's played with them enough today and that the twins would have to go home and he would have to stay here.
I know that DS8 should be allowed to do things w/o his brother, but they are always together and DS6 doesn't understand and really feels bad when he's left out like that. Plus, I think the twins were really being mean to him, just for the sake of being mean. DS6 has a really hard time making friends, his brother is really it for him. I've tried to get him to play with kids from his class, but he has no interest. At recess, he just swings on the swingset the wholetime.

 

[lunalibre]

I can feel your pain. My DS11 is best friends with another boy, Dear Boy 10 (DB10 from here on out). DB10 has a younger brother DB7, and I have a younger daughter DD8. DS11, DB10, and DB7 are nearly inseparable. However, there are no other girls on our street for DD8 to play with. I was lucky that, early on, the other mom and I agreed that DS11 and best friend DB10 could play together, but they could NOT exclude the younger ones (and especially they couldn't exclude DD because she was a girl) because there was no one else to play with.

Now, I have an easy "out" for spending the night. DD is, in fact, a girl and cannot go spend the night with any boys that are not relatives. So, only DB10 has come over here to spend the night. We have done "almost overs" with all four kids, where the kids come eat pizza/watch movies/play games until 11pm, then the younger kids go home.

I don't know what to do in your situation. I think I would say that either both boys spend the night, or no one spends the night. It wouldn't be fair to invite only one of the twins to your house, so it shouldn't be fair to invite only one of your kids to theirs. All those boys are too close together in age.

Actually, I think that advice goes for all playtime together. All those boys are too close together in age. They can't be allowed to gang up on the youngest. It would be different if they were farther apart in age, but they aren't. What worked for me was telling DS11 that he had a responsibility to speak up for his sister (not that she doesn't speak up for herself, LOL). He knows what is and isn't fair, and how he'd feel if the situation were reversed. Maybe you can have a similar conversation with your DS8. Also, you can tell DS6 that the other boys shouldn't exclude him, and he has your permission to tell him that. When the boys around here try to pull that stunt and then don't listen to DD, she knows to go find an adult at the house to back her up. We only needed to do that a couple of times before all the kids got the idea.

If you don't get any support from the other parent, you can still enforce the "all play or none play" rules. If DS6 comes home and says the other boys won't play, your DS8 comes home. If they're at your house and exclude DS6, those twins go home. They'll get the idea pretty quickly.

Good luck!

 

[LilGMom]

I wouldn't force the neighbor boys to play with your 6 yr. old or keep your 8 yr. old from playing with them if they don't want the younger one around. If you force them all to play together the youngest will get excluded anyway and/or the older kids will start picking on him to make him not want to play with them.

Right now we are dealing with something a little similiar. My oldest is 6 (will be 7 in two months) and has been playing with the neighbor boys for almost 3 years. One neighbor boy - Boy A is a grade ahead of our oldest and lives right next door. Another neighbor boy - Boy B is a year older but in the same grade as our oldest and has an older brother, Boy C, that is a grade ahead of our oldest. Our oldest has been good friends with Boy A since they moved in next to us three years ago. He has been good friends with Boy B for about two years and they are in the same after-school-care program, Boy C used to not play with any of them.

A few other weekend Boys A, B, & C told our DS that they didn't want to "play with little kids" and it really hurt our oldest DS's feelings. The other boys have made ugly comments when they've seen our oldest out and it hurts him, and me, but I'm not going to tell the other kids' parents to force them to play with my oldest. I don't think the other boys would be nice and/or include him anyway even if made to be around him.

When I know my DS is upset about this I make more time for him and me to do things and I try to make the idea of playing with just his brother (even though much younger) a really cool thing to do.

Good luck. Sorry for going off on a tangent but this hit home and kids can be so mean, sometimes without trying to be.

 

[mommy-on-the-move]

I have a similar problem with my middle 2- they are only 11 months apart in age but my ds5 is special needs and my dd4 is fabulously popular, ds5 as part of his various issues is overly zealous but also socially awkward and has little concept of social interaction "norms" - to be entirely honest he scares the beejeebus out of some of dd4s classmates and his own because he is so verrrry bouncy and has no concept of personal space (all part of his varying issues... he's in alot of various work groups to deal with them and physio, OT and paed. psych etc etc) however at the end of the day he's a little boy who sees his sister playing with a whole heap of kids - they are even in the same class at school which makes it more awkward, and the kids embrace and consider his sister fabulous but see him as "odd" or at the best "just how J is" - he told his dad yesterday at dinner he sat by his only friend, his shadow, at lunch that day but it's ok because his shadow is his friend... broke my heart but he's happy as a bumpkin which is what is so wonderful about him, he's happy when people do play with him but doesn't get down when they run screaming (and on occasion they do) when they see him in the schoolyard.

I could very easily tell dd4 that she can't go to the parties where ds5 isn't invited (in a term she'll get 5-10 invites, he's lucky if he gets one that isn't from a friend of mine being considerate) I could very easily tell dd4 that she can only play with those that will play with ds5 and i could very easily ask parents to make their kids play with ds5 but in reality all i would do would cause dd4 to be ostracized too and also i can't be there forever making friends for ds5 as much as being a mom i want to... I have to let him find his feet and find his own way and be there to pick him up when he needs it.

My dd10 had one good friend in primary school and everywhere we invited the friend her mother insisted her same-age stepbrother be invited too and so eventually we just stopped inviting because we have 4 kids of our own, we have limited space & resources and dd10 didn't get along with the stepbrother- sad that her friend missed out as a result but we couldn't put up with the insisting the extra child got to be a part, which i think is largely why i don't do it with ds5 because i know what an awkward position it puts people in.

 

[lunalibre]

I see where others have posted that they didn't force the kids to play together when they didn't want to, didn't let similar-age siblings tag along, etc. I can see their points in certain situations. If a friend from school invites DS11 somewhere, I certainly don't insist that DD8 get invited too. However, to me it's an entirely different situation when DS11, DB10, and DB7 want to ride bikes on our street and decide that DD8 isn't "allowed" to ride with them. That is just mean and I won't tolerate it. If the two older boys want to play without either of the younger kids, that's fine. At least the younger kids have each other to play with. None of the kids is allowed to exclude another kid arbitrarily for everyday activities.

Now, when we go to Six Flags, only the older two boys get to go with the families. DB7 won't ride roller coasters and DD8 will, so the "touring style" isn't compatible. So, when our family goes only DB10 comes with us, and when the other family goes, only DS11 goes with them.

Each situation requires a judgement call, and you may have to deal with each one on a case-by-case basis.

 

[JacobsMommy11002]

I know its hard when your little one is feeling left out. You don't want their feelings hurt, and I get that. But its really not fair to you older DS to have to be his little brothers constant companion. And I am not saying you are forcing him to. But if he isn't allowed to play because his little brother can't, he will grow to be resentful. Unfortunately, life isn't fair. They won't always be able to do everything together. I would try to work it into some special mommy and little DS time when the older has a sleep over with the twins. If it was at my house, I would try to have him included, but I wouldn't say no, you can't sleep over because little bro can't.

However, if they are all playing in the yard, all need to be included. Its a different scenario to me.

 

[deedeetoo]

My parents did this to me when I was a kid. They forced me to take along my little sister (2 years younger) all the time. I got very very resentful of it. I wasn't allowed to do anything without her. One year we went to Girl Scout sleepover camp and they made us bunk together even though she was in a different age group. She had no one her age to play with and spent the whole week following me around and crying because she was miserable, which of course made me miserable. It got to the point that for a couple years I completely refused to play with her at all. I did get over that evntually, and started hanging out with her again sometimes, but we never were close again.

 

[dis-happy]

I think your problem would be solved if you set the ground rules before any play gets started. If they are asking to come and play for the day, make it clear that your youngest will be included and will be treated nicely. But you might also need to make time for just your older one to do things too.

The problem with the sleepover is you didn't get all the facts first; personally I would have let the older one go, given the situation you described (you said yes, then found out it wasn't in invite to your youngest, your dh gets involved...it seems like in the end these kids have more reason to resent your youngest than just get along with him, plus you disappointed your older one by saying yes then no---BTW, did he know who was included/not included for the sleepover?). One thing though, if these kids are mean I wouldn't want to do any sleepovers with them, JMHO.

 

[bookgirl]

My nephews are both 8. But they are not a included pair. They are in different classes (they do play on the same sports teams most of the time since there is only one team per grade at school, when there are two then they can play on seperate teams) they have different friends and if one is invited it goes without saying that the other will not automatically be included. Sometimes both are invited but often only one is. They are not however allowed to have friends over and exclude the brother per say. Now the boys are very different and do not always want to play the same things so they often choose to not partcipate but they do not exclude.

I think the thing in the OP situation is that the neighbors are neither of her boys age. Her oldest is one year older and her youngest is one year younger then the twins. That is a situation where you can't say "well the three boys are the same age and shouldn't have to play with a younger sibling" None of them are the same age except the twins. Plus they are playing together at other times, it's not like they never play with the 6 yo.

I would not stop your oldest from playing with them but I would at least tell him that for every "playdate" he wants to have there has to be some group time as well. Then explain to the youngest that they are older and there are times when they play as a group and times when the older boys want to play on their own, and during those times he can do something HE wants, like play videos or on the computer or special art time, that his brother does not get to have. Or let him invite a friend over for a time just for them where the older boys are not allowed to partcipate. Let them see how it feels to be excluded and learn some empathy, while encougageing your youngest to expand his social skills. As hard as it is at 8 and 6 wait till they're 12 and 10 or 16 and 14. Your oldest needs to learn to be fair but the younger needs to learn that he is not the same as the others and he needs firends on his own social level and age.

 

[dis-happy]

Also, could your clarify their ages/grades? I first read your post as the kids being ages 8,7,7,6. But the second reading I saw your sig that says 5, and you said he is "almost 6". There's a big difference between someone who is in K vs. 2nd grade. Are all 3 older boys in 2nd grade? Or 1st grade for the 7 year olds and 2nd grade for the 8 year old? If there is a big range, I could see how they might want a little space from the youngest. If it makes you feel better we've been through this with our oldest 2 boys as well...the younger felt his db's friends were his, even with a 6 year gap in age!!! If your youngest is shy you might want to step in and help him learn how to be friends with kids his age too. Good luck!!!

 

[jenrein]

Your DS6 had better get used to feeling left out....2 years is a big difference in age. Once they hit 14 and 16 there will really be no hanging out. And from the other parents point of view- are you around there house while both your kids are there? Maybe it is too much for them and they really only wanted one kid at a time. Being 7 the neighbor twins may just have more in common with your 8 yr old.

 

[KariC]

And, from a mom of twins, generally, it IS okay to only invite one twin....and most of my twin mommy friends would agree. Now, neighborhood play is different, but if your DS8 was allowed to take 1 friend somewhere, and he chose a twin...don't hesitate to ask one twin...let the twins' parents decide how to handle that (or address it with the parents first).

 

[SiClone]

My DS's are 2 years and 2 days apart. They are 12 and 10. If and when they play with the neighbor kids, they do so together - no choice. They don't have friends of the same age or even in the same class in our neighborhood so sleepovers are not an issue.

Funny thing is that DS10 has been a lot happier this year without DS12 going to the same school and riding the same bus.

Moral of the story is that OP's kids are still young and should still be playing together with the neighbor kids. They should go in pairs no matter where. Eventually they will grow out of the need to be together - case in point, when the older ones goes to junior high/middle school.

 

[r4blessings]

I have a ds9 and a ds6 who are truly best friends! They play every day together (younger dd4 and ds2 are also very close!) but they also each have their own friends from school, sports teams, etc. So if ds6 has a playdate over after school and wants his older brother to play with him, great! If not, I do try to do something with other kids to keep them out of ds6's hair. And same goes for older ds's playdate.

However, the problem I have with OP's scenario is that the boys are not all the same age. They are not individually made friends (does that make sense?) and that it seems they allow the younger ds to play to a point but then exclude him from other things for the sake of excluding him.
I think you should try to monitor the next few times they are at your house to really assess the situation. Is older son wanting to play without younger brother? Is younger brother a bit immature while playing and it becomes irritating to older boys? Or are the twins really being mean and trying to leave him out to make him feel bad? Once you have all the answers to those questions, then you will know what you need to do.

And lastly, I would really have a problem with a parent who would send her two children over (even though they are twins they are still two kids ) to play at your house, but then only allow one child (when there is one that will be excluded)to play at theirs. Why should you be expected to host two of hers if she will only host one of yours.

Hang in there!

 

[Tam1067]

An almost 6 year old is probably in kindergarten. That's my DD's age, and there's a huge difference between a kindergartener and a 2nd grader which it seems the neighbor boys are.

Let the older boys do their thing. They need to be nice to the younger one, but it's not fair to anyone to force the older kids to play with the kindergartener, especially for a sleepover.

My boys are 21 months apart, so I've been down that road too, and I always encourage the kids to be nice to each other, but at the same time, I don't expect my older son to include his brother (or vice versa) in social activities, especially sleepovers.

 

[**eeyore**]

And, from a mom of twins, generally, it IS okay to only invite one twin....and most of my twin mommy friends would agree. Now, neighborhood play is different, but if your DS8 was allowed to take 1 friend somewhere, and he chose a twin...don't hesitate to ask one twin...let the twins' parents decide how to handle that (or address it with the parents first).

As another mom of twins, I was going to say something similar. Sorry if this comes out a little harsh, but why not "turn the table" on the neighbor boys - next time your son/sons would like to play with them, only invite one of the boys. I don't think the one left out would feel to0 good.

Actually, I don't think I could actually do that to a couple of 7 year olds, but, much to my embarrassment, it was the first thing that came to my mind when reading this thread!

 

[DevilDuckie]

I know that DS8 should be allowed to do things w/o his brother, but they are always together

DS8 is entitled to a little time away from the tag along younger sibling. Let him have it. It sounds like he is extremely good about including his younger brother a good chunk of the time. All the more reason to set some boundaries and let him have things that are just for him.

DS6 is old enough to learn that not all activities are for everyone. He doesn't have to like it. He probably won't. His preferences should not dictate his older brother's social life.

This hits home because my son has a good friend with a younger sibling who has taken to throwing tantrums when told he's not invited on trips. I am sticking to my guns. His big brother needs the freedom to be an individual and not part of a package deal.

 

[grlpwrd]

As another mom of twins, I was going to say something similar. Sorry if this comes out a little harsh, but why not "turn the table" on the neighbor boys - next time your son/sons would like to play with them, only invite one of the boys. I don't think the one left out would feel to0 good.

Actually, I don't think I could actually do that to a couple of 7 year olds, but, much to my embarrassment, it was the first thing that came to my mind when reading this thread!

I am one of a twin and my husband is a twin, too. I agree with you.

I sense some exclusivity by the twin boys in the OP's post. I don't think they would like it either if one of them were left out. I think they should be treated like individuals anyway.

GL, OP! I have a 16, 13, 9, 4, and 2.5 yo and they all went thru - or are going thru - this right now. It's all part of growing up.

 

[powellrj]

My question is how do the twins parents feel. You are assuming that the twins were the ones that didn't want the youngest, but maybe the parents really do have a rule that only one child at a time can spend the night.

 

[LAH LAH]

2 year age difference? Different playmates!