need advice especially from school employees

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You all can lament about the money and the schools losing funds for absent kids but the money to pay for the education (teachers/school buildings/supplies/meaintenance) HAS to come from somewhere. If not based on attendance, what should it be based on? Why should a school get money for a student that isn't there?

Enrollment.

Does a teacher's salary go down b/c little Johny is absent? No. So cutting funding b/c he is absent is counter productive.

 

[Missy1961]

You all can lament about the money and the schools losing funds for absent kids but the money to pay for the education (teachers/school buildings/supplies/meaintenance) HAS to come from somewhere. If not based on attendance, what should it be based on? Why should a school get money for a student that isn't there?

If everyone were "better citizens" and realized how our behavior affected others (if I keep my child out of school, it will affect the funding the school gets, which will affect my neighbor's child - i.e. it isn't just all about you), we would all be in a better situation.

Exactly. If memory serves, attendance has always meant money for school districts. I remember being told that's why the school needed a note when you came back from a sick day. (but I was in grade school over 40 years ago, so my memory could be wrong)

Look, I understand once in a lifetime trips, I really do. But your trip will impact more than your kid. Because you're taking your kids out of school, you're expecting their teachers to give up their free time or their family time so they can put together that packet of work. Or they should stay late so your kid can make up work. I can understand why a teacher may not want to do it--they may want to have family time with their family.

So take them out or don't take them out. Your decision. But be prepared to pay the consequences of your action.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Shouldn't the public school system be "one size fits most" to make the best use of the funds that they do have? .

No and truly they really never have been.

That is why curriculum is catered to groups of kids--b/c some are smarter than others, some are just average, and some need a little more guidance.

If it truly was--"one size fits all"--each child would be doing the SAME exact thing at the SAME exact time on each and every school day without regard to his/her intellegience or abilities.

Then you'd end up with more kids flunking and wasting more tax dollars b/c it will take them longer than 13 years to complete school.


And each school would be in the same in each school, each county/parish and each state/commonwealth. There would be no difference anywhere.

But there is b/c invidiual classes and schools do what they can to teach to the broad range of students in accordance with their levels as appropriate.

Then you toss in IEPs and it all gets crazy individualized.

 

[Scurvy]

I also mentioned Homeschooling and I agree that the most important thing is to be compliant. However, I wasn't suggesting pulling the child out, claiming to homeschool, and then re-enrolling (which I, personally, think is a bad idea!). I really meant that if someone is willing to have her children miss that much school regardless of the consequences to the children, maybe public school isn't the best option for them. If your kids are going to attend public school, you need to be willing to adhere to the policies of that school district. If you aren't willing to abide by those policies and are instead willing to risk your child falling behind or being kept back a grade, Homeschooling might be a better fit for your family. Of course you still have to adhere to the policies in your state for Homeschoolers, but the vacation issue should be easier for you. (It certainly wouldn't be worth it to me, but maybe it would to the OP or other posters who don't want to have to "ask permission" to vacation with their kids.)

 

[DLANGE3386]

Exactly. If memory serves, attendance has always meant money for school districts. I remember being told that's why the school needed a note when you came back from a sick day. (but I was in grade school over 40 years ago, so my memory could be wrong)

Look, I understand once in a lifetime trips, I really do. But your trip will impact more than your kid. Because you're taking your kids out of school, you're expecting their teachers to give up their free time or their family time so they can put together that packet of work. Or they should stay late so your kid can make up work. I can understand why a teacher may not want to do it--they may want to have family time with their family.

So take them out or don't take them out. Your decision. But be prepared to pay the consequences of your action.

see my last post

 

[lovetoscrap]

Students are entitled to an education--the school isn't entitled to ownership of the child.

MTE!!!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

our school policy is that if you miss 27 days of a class you would not pass the class. so we would not even come close. Our teachers have to stay after every day for an extra block of time to help out kids who need help, so I am not asking them to take time away from their families. I would rather not bring a packet of work with us but am willing to do it if the teacher wants to send one. I know we will work hard to catch up but we can do it. I will not unenroll them to homeschool them -unfortunately I have to work. So I will take them out and we will work hard to make up any missed work. Thanks to the poster for the suggestion of having a friend get extra handouts and eamiling them-wonderful idea! my husband and I are both college graduates and feel we can help them with the subject matter they would be missing and let them have an experience they may otherwise never get. Thanks lovetoscrap for your sample note. I think it's perfect.

Since the trip is in January (I think), you have the advantage of winter break where your children can work ahead on whatever areas they already know about.

It's funny--college professors can provide a syllabus for an entire semester without issue so that students can work at their pace--either along with the syllabus, ahead, or to catch up.

I don't know why school teachers have such an issue. I get how putting together packets can be time consuming--but photocopying a lesson plan is not. A lesson plan that says--this week read pp 127-159 or whatever.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Exactly. If memory serves, attendance has always meant money for school districts. I remember being told that's why the school needed a note when you came back from a sick day. (but I was in grade school over 40 years ago, so my memory could be wrong)

It's reasons like this why some parents send their kids to school sick. The complications and guilt trips over absenteeism. The system is broken to punish the school budget over absenteeism.

My brother was uninsured in high school. Due to a HIGH hookie (sp?) rate at his school, absences were unexcused unless a doctor's note was provided.

This was his second high school--same county, but different rules that were more strict than the district policy.

I know we are talking about vacations--but that is another consequence of how schools are funded.

 

[Scurvy]

It's funny--college professors can provide a syllabus for an entire semester without issue so that students can work at their pace--either along with the syllabus, ahead, or to catch up.

I don't know why school teachers have such an issue. I get how putting together packets can be time consuming--but photocopying a lesson plan is not. A lesson plan that says--this week read pp 127-159 or whatever.

College professors may be able to provide a syllabus in advance, but most of mine also had much more restrictive attendance policies than the schools I know of. With most of my college classes, 3 absences (for any reason) meant you'd fail the course. In addition, the syllabus or lesson plans are often useless without the actual classroom instruction to go along with them, since the best teachers tend to not just teach out of a textbook. There are all sorts of activities and projects that are difficult to make up or to do in advance even if you have the lesson plans for the entire semester, especially since the lessons usually build upon each other and you can't do lesson B until you have learned (and mastered) lesson A. Plus, unless all the assignments are straight out of the textbook, you'd still need a packet of other handouts, etc. to actually do the assignments listed in the lesson plans.

 

[Darcy03231]

Have a great trip!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

College professors may be able to provide a syllabus in advance, but most of mine also had

.....

Plus, unless all the assignments are straight out of the textbook, you'd still need a packet of other handouts, etc. to actually do the assignments listed in the lesson plans.

True--but the complaints I am hearing relate to the special planning the teacher has to do and I find it hard to believe that school teachers fly by the seat of their pants and don't at least have the following weeks lesson plans prepared by the week before. I'm sure some might, but it seems very wrong to me.

In upper grades, we depended more on books and independent research projects. Not as many handouts as in elementary school.

Of course this will vary by school, grade, and even individual class.

 

[rgf207]

Since the trip is in January (I think), you have the advantage of winter break where your children can work ahead on whatever areas they already know about.

It's funny--college professors can provide a syllabus for an entire semester without issue so that students can work at their pace--either along with the syllabus, ahead, or to catch up.

I don't know why school teachers have such an issue. I get how putting together packets can be time consuming--but photocopying a lesson plan is not. A lesson plan that says--this week read pp 127-159 or whatever.

Also in college there are no makeups for missed work no matter what

 

[laurie31]

I also mentioned Homeschooling and I agree that the most important thing is to be compliant. However, I wasn't suggesting pulling the child out, claiming to homeschool, and then re-enrolling (which I, personally, think is a bad idea!). I really meant that if someone is willing to have her children miss that much school regardless of the consequences to the children, maybe public school isn't the best option for them. If your kids are going to attend public school, you need to be willing to adhere to the policies of that school district. If you aren't willing to abide by those policies and are instead willing to risk your child falling behind or being kept back a grade, Homeschooling might be a better fit for your family. Of course you still have to adhere to the policies in your state for Homeschoolers, but the vacation issue should be easier for you. (It certainly wouldn't be worth it to me, but maybe it would to the OP or other posters who don't want to have to "ask permission" to vacation with their kids.)

I totally agree with this!

In fact, I will be homeschooling both my girls for the entire year next year, for this very reason. They will be in 6th and 9th grade. They would miss 19 days of school in September due to our vacation to Europe. I don't care how smart they are, no kid can make up that much time, regardless of whether the schools allowed them to make up the work or not.

Yes, the trip will be VERY educational, and yes, it's a once in a lifetime thing (we're going to see the Passion Play in Oberammergau, which I've been waiting almost 30 years to do), but that doesn't mean I expect the public school system to accomodate us.

OP, could you homeschool for the spring semester? I think 2 weeks is a lot to miss for a middle school student...but I also think you should take the trip no matter what! Your kids will always have the memory of that trip. even if they do have consequenses in school with attendence or grades, it would be worth it to me.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Also in college there are no makeups for missed work no matter what

Depends on the college, the professor and the circumstances.

And for some--there is often a standing policy of dropping the lowest grade which gives you a little wiggle room should you have to miss a quiz or test and take a zero. This is for a valid reason. (including funerals, illness--and I kid you not, one time b/c my sorority was closing its doors which was traumatizing for all of 10 minutes. That one was not my idea, but a sorority sister in my class did go and speak to the professor and we were both excused. I'm sure she was more upset than I was, but I was feeling pretty good by then. I thought it was silly--but I did take advantage of the extension.)

Even some of the most strict professors have been known to use common sense every once in a while over a situation.

Of course in college--this is more for legit reasons--a vacation would be frowned upon. Academic or Athletic Team travel would be excused as long for situations in which class schedule conflicted.

Then there were times where class attendance wasn't required at all. I have no idea how students did who just showed up on test days.

I simply mentioned it more from a preparation standpoint of the class assignments (in preparing the semester in advance) and not as a shining example of missing class for a vacation.

 

[Scurvy]

True--but the complaints I am hearing relate to the special planning the teacher has to do and I find it hard to believe that school teachers fly by the seat of their pants and don't at least have the following weeks lesson plans prepared by the week before. I'm sure some might, but it seems very wrong to me.

In upper grades, we depended more on books and independent research projects. Not as many handouts as in elementary school.

Of course this will vary by school, grade, and even individual class.

I see what you mean, and I think a lot of that is the variation between the lower and upper grades (and possibly different teaching styles, as well). Even though teachers do know their general lesson plans, there can be some deviations along the way depending on how well the students are catching on to the lessons. Sometimes the class has to spend longer on one thing than a teacher anticipated and other times the students learn something much more quickly than the teacher expected. I think this is especially true with the younger grades, whereas by the time they are in college the instructors aren't as willing to slow down - instead they expect the students to seek help outside of class if they aren't catching on as quickly. Even though an eighth grade teacher might have her lesson plans ready for the whole month, she might not end up doing every activity on the day she had planned to do it, and in fact might end up adding several activities about a lesson that the kids are having trouble grasping or eliminating a few activities on something the kids all grasp right away.

 

[minkydog]

A 2 week trip to Hawaii would not be excused at my 6th and 8th grader's private school. At best, our school would give zeros for all assigments during the vacation. I suspect our school might even tell you to find a new school.

Our local public school would require your kids to repeat the grade as they would exceed their allowable unexcused absences. There's no way a trip to Hawaii would be excused even if it's a business trip.

In my district 10 days unexcused absence could result in failing the grade. Couple that with the fact that NONE of the work could be made up due to the unexcused absence, failure would be a likely end result. My kids' school is on block scheduling. That means that to miss 2 weeks of school would be about the same as missing 3-4 weeks of school. There is NO WAY they could make up the work, EVEN IF the absense were excused.

It's different when a family homeschools. Flexibility of schedule is a major plus--we took a lot of off-season vacations and did school in the heat of the summer. However, in traditional school you simply don't have that option.
I'm sorry, but the trip would get a big fat no from me.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am in awe of parents who home school their children, there is no way that I could have provided the level of education to my own children that they are providing to theirs. I cannot pretend to know all of the considerations that contribute to the decision to home school but I would wonder if that decision is made in order to take a vacation.

Well, ONE of the reasons we homeschooled was so we could travel. DH travelled often for work and we had the oppurtunity to take the kids to so many places if we oculd be flexible and "bring school on the trip" or have school during tradtitional break time to make up for lost days due to travel. It was not our only reason--but I feel it was a valid one.

IMHO-those people who will "homeschool" a child for just the length of vacation are short changing the child AND giving legitimate homeschoolers a bad name (as well as essentially teaching their child to look for loopholes to get around wahtever rules they find inconvieneint. OP--I am glad to ehar you are not considering this option. I am also glad to ehar many of you live in ditrcits which are working to close this loop hole in some way.

our school policy is that if you miss 27 days of a class you would not pass the class. so we would not even come close. Our teachers have to stay after every day for an extra block of time to help out kids who need help, so I am not asking them to take time away from their families. I would rather not bring a packet of work with us but am willing to do it if the teacher wants to send one. I know we will work hard to catch up but we can do it. I will not unenroll them to homeschool them -unfortunately I have to work. So I will take them out and we will work hard to make up any missed work. Thanks to the poster for the suggestion of having a friend get extra handouts and eamiling them-wonderful idea! my husband and I are both college graduates and feel we can help them with the subject matter they would be missing and let them have an experience they may otherwise never get. Thanks lovetoscrap for your sample note. I think it's perfect.

So it sounds like you have a good plan Excellent. I will just reiterate that I think the teachers and adim. will feel better about how serious you are about keeping the kids caught up if you tell them up front that the kids will have friends emailing assignments and picking up handouts for them. People always feel better about helping people who are also helping themselves

 

[Nancyg56]

Well, ONE of the reasons we homeschooled was so we could travel. DH travelled often for work and we had the oppurtunity to take the kids to so many places if we oculd be flexible and "bring school on the trip" or have school during tradtitional break time to make up for lost days due to travel. It was not our only reason--but I feel it was a valid one.

IMHO-those people who will "homeschool" a child for just the length of vacation are short changing the child AND giving legitimate homeschoolers a bad name (as well as essentially teaching their child to look for loopholes to get around wahtever rules they find inconvieneint.

I am so glad that your family has been able to travel with your husband. I cannot imagine the work that you must put into the curriculum but agree that your children's education will only be enhanced by their travels.

My cousin homeschooled her children. The commitment was tremendous and the time she put into their education was probably much more than most would imagine. Anyone who suggests to get around school district policy by pulling the child out, homeschooling for a period of time and then placing the child back the following year has not explored what is required. Public school is not for everyone but it is not a system that should allow parents to play games. Children are not potatoes, you cannot send them to school if it is convenient, pull them if the policy is inconvenient and something fun comes up.

I really do not have strong feelings about taking kids out of school if they can catch up with the work and if the policy allows the absence. I think it is always a personal decision. I do think that there may be consequences and parents should be aware of the consequences and make sure that their reaction is really what their children would want. I know that my DD would rather have chewed glass than have me remove her from her school. There would be no vacation that would have swayed her.