Nanny / Caregiver Issue

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Well this got ugly...

 

[mommysaurus]

I understand the feeling. My DS just met a new sports coach and he was in a wheelchair also. It shouldn't be surprising in this day and age, really. I agree that there can be an added bonus of learning about people with disabilities when we're around them, and maybe developing compassion for others, and those can only be good things. I mentioned earlier that I thought being from a different country would help enrich the child's life by learning about another culture, and probably enjoying foods from there, and music, history, mementos, etc. But it seems just the negatives are being focused on here. Op's prerogative, but also, perhaps, her loss.

Yes, it really shouldn't be surprising but I did have a moment of " how is this going to work???". The thing is that people who have disabilities have a lot of experience with overcoming them and making it work. This teacher was not going to be able to get down on their floor and have literacy circles like his other teacher did, for example, but at the end of the day that doesn't matter. She was still able to teach the kids to read, and she was a spectacular teacher...would have been such a shame to discount her because of her mobility. You are right that it's the same with someone from a foreign country, they bring a lot of cultural enrichment opportunities to the table that other nannies my not have.

OP had months to procure a nanny, before delivery. I know, she was ill afterwards, but had a nurse to relieve her load. Thankfully, her spouse was there to help too. I don't get how she was "railroaded".

I didn't think of that but it's very true. I was touring daycares while pregnant. It was like July and August and when asked when I needed to enroll my baby the response was "um. Sometime around Christmas?". I got on several wait lists and they all put the child's name as "Baby Smith" and the birthdate as my due date. They told me to call after I had him so they could update it with his name, actual birthdate, and actual day I wanted him to start. Pretty standard/typical I'd assume since multiple places had the same process.

 

[design_mom]

As a mom of two with a nanny, I'm mostly on the OP's side through this. And I really don't like the fact that people are bashing her for having a baby nurse while battling PPD.

To be fair, I've read through the whole thread and I don't see anyone bashing her for using the baby nurse while battling PPD... and many people said they were glad she had the option/support.

One thing that people have commented on is that having a baby nurse is not "the norm" that the OP seemed to think it is. (I'm not shocked at the concept of hiring someone to help care for the baby in the first few weeks, but it's uncommon enough around here, that I don't think there's a specific term for it. I didn't know what a "baby nurse" was either.) I also think some people commented that the OP seemed to be expecting a lot of the nanny in terms of which services the nanny would provide and her ability to automatically know what the OP expected, how to use the OP's specific equipment, etc. (things the OP considered to be "tradecraft," but in reality are very specific/personal details.)

I also agree that if it's a safety issue, then the OP needs to hire the new nanny sooner rather than later. Still, like others, I don't think it sounds like the nanny has done anything "wrong," so I think she deserves as much notice/severance as possible.

Finally in the short term, since the initial issue was about her getting the stroller/baby down the stairs safely. Could the nanny take the baby outdoors in a wearable baby sling or baby carrier? I pretty much exclusively "wore" my youngest till she was almost 3 because it was nice to have my hands free and I hated lugging around a stroller. Wearing the baby would allow the nanny to have her hands free on the stairs, and still take the baby out.

 

[gwynne]

Yes, this has confused me from the beginning. Child care (everywhere not just NYC) is so hard to find. If you want options and good quality, it's normally one of the first things researched during pregnancy. The only people I've ever known who waited until after the child was born were those who planned extended maternity leaves- at least 6 months to a year.



Yes, I suspect that the DH was hoping that over the winter the OP could continue to get healthier while adjusting to working motherhood. I also agree that he realized that the nanny complaints were minor as was suggested in the beginning. Initially it was trouble managing the stairs with a stroller. It morphed into more and more as OP tried to garner more support.

I said from the beginning that if OP was unhappy with the nanny she should give generous severance and move on.

The thread took a big turn when someone else (not the OP) posted the- "our life in NYC is so much harder, no one will ever understand" comment. And then when the OP kept adding nitpicky things. People kind of lost empathy and patience.

Find a new nanny and move on.

I am hoping OP and her husband work together and find a suitable nanny. At this point OP has received plenty of advice, especially about no one being absolutely perfect. Looking for Mary Poppins will only result in disappointment. Surely OP works with others and understands we are all different, and we all bring strengths (and some weaknesses) to our workplace.

Personally, I'd be a bit leery of someone who over volunteers for lots extra duty. Taking good care of baby is the most important thing. Can nanny work with both parents respectfully, manage the stairs, keep up with an infant now as well as a busy toddler in the future? Is she kind and friendly? Is she reliable and trustworthy? These would matter to me far more than someone who volunteers to make and freeze baby food.

About the baby equipment-OP should select things that fit with where she lives. I used to have an amazing (heavy) German stroller that I had permission to leave downstairs in our German apt. The entryway was was safe, locked, controlled access. If it had been necessary to haul it up the multiple flights of stairs, I would have selected something much lighter. I think it's a mistake to let equipment rule your life. Choose items that fit in with your current needs and are easy to use. Don't over complicate things.

 

[PollyannaMom]

...But this raises an interesting question. If this current nanny was hired during the first few weeks of the baby's life after the PPD had set in, why wasn't there a plan for childcare earlier on? Any mother I know who plans to go back to work finds childcare during pregnancy, even if they are taking a maternity leave. I would imagine that's even more essential in NYC.

That is puzzling. A lot was said about the different atmosphere in NYC than where most of us are likely posting from. I would think you would have to set something up earlier in that environment.

I'm honestly expecting this thread to be shut down at any minute now. It's WAY beyond the OP's original question.

I actually "unwatched" it, hoping I could just let it go. ---- But then I simply clicked on it on it when I was on the Community Board instead...I'm weak, and I cannot look away.

It has got me thinking, though, about how many different ways there are to raise children, and how the same thing that can seem completely foreign to one person can seem completely normal to another.

Yet kids are extremely resilient and somehow grow up to be functioning adults in all sorts of different circumstances.

“There's no way to be a perfect mother and a million ways to be a good one.” - Jill Churchill

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Yes, it really shouldn't be surprising but I did have a moment of " how is this going to work???". The thing is that people who have disabilities have a lot of experience with overcoming them and making it work. This teacher was not going to be able to get down on their floor and have literacy circles like his other teacher did, for example, but at the end of the day that doesn't matter. She was still able to teach the kids to read, and she was a spectacular teacher...would have been such a shame to discount her because of her mobility. You are right that it's the same with someone from a foreign country, they bring a lot of cultural enrichment opportunities to the table that other nannies my not have.

Exactly.

This is what was said in OP:

So I said yes and hired her, after point-blank asking her if she could physically handle the job (her knees are bad, she wears braces on them and has difficulty with mobility sometimes). We have 5 somewhat steep stairs going in and out of the building and I was worried about her getting the stroller up and down (which I mentioned to her). She assured me it would be no problem. I was uneasy about it - but was too exhausted and not thinking straight at this point.

She helped us while I was home and I voiced my concerns again, as I saw she has some trouble walking here and there.

She then goes on to say:

Long story short - I'm fine, back at work and she still can't maneuver the stroller up and down the stairs on her own. She needs to hold the handrail for support and have someone else there with her to hold one side of the stroller.

My DH thinks it's no big deal - the super can help her in and out of the building each day when she takes the baby out. He also feels that she helped us out when I was unable to move and that we owe her for that.

Not exactly an invalid. And her DH thinking it's "no big deal" is very telling. Surely, he wouldn't want any harm to come to his baby.

Later she adds she's also worried what would happen in an emergency.

Nothing mentioned about not being able to get around the house with the baby.

Honestly, most people, as many have said here, would likely have trouble maneuvering the stroller up and down the outside stairs with the baby given the same circumstances. This will be an issue for everyone. So the problem isn't the nanny, persay, it's the stairs! And that's not going to change no matter who you get in there.

But I'm guessing there is a big piece missing to this story and that that piece is cultural, with strong ideologies and mores that preclude OP to perhaps being open to ideas other than what she views herself. This is just my take on it. So what most of us have done, or how we view the situation, may be wildly different from the way OP sees it. It's neither right nor wrong, just different. But I think without that piece of information, it's hard to understand exactly what's going on here. Of course, I could be way off base, but I don't think so. (And OP does not have to divulge anything to us, certainly. I can absolutely understand why she might not want to.)

 

[Mkrop]

I think most people were in agreement with the OP about the mobility issues or lack thereof in regards to the nanny. The baby is only going to get bigger and heavier. I think she lost people when she thought baby nurses were the norm, although with the clarification as to why she needed one, was glad to hear she got that help. But she lost me personally with the long hours, low pay (I know I know standard for her area) and then the demand to do other things that seem beyond taking care of the baby. I think asking her to put the humidifier together if she had time was fine, but when the nanny could not for whatever reason, there was no need to get annoyed with that.

 

[morgan98]

.
But I'm guessing there is a big piece missing to this story and that that piece is cultural, with strong ideologies and mores that preclude OP to perhaps being open to ideas other than what she views herself. This is just my take on it. So what most of us have done, or how we view the situation, may be wildly different from the way OP sees it. It's neither right nor wrong, just different. But I think without that piece of information, it's hard to understand exactly what's going on here. Of course, I could be way off base, but I don't think so. (And OP does not have to divulge anything to us, certainly. I can absolutely understand why she might not want to.)

This I think sums up the discussion. Of course pretty much everyone on this thread has said it is great for the OP to have had the baby nurse to help her when she was suffering from PPD. Most also agree that, of course, the nanny should be mobile enough to safely care for the child. Although, the descriptions of exactly how mobile the nanny is seems to waver between not being able to haul a large stroller system with the baby in it up and down the stairs, to not being able to get out of the apartment in an emergency.

However, I get from reading all of the posts is that there is most definitely some cultural expectation thing going on here, since the OP has referenced her "social circle" and that is just the ways things are done multiple times. All of this is fine, but I think it has resulted in the OP getting some "heat" so to speak because others do not relate to her situation.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think most people were in agreement with the OP about the mobility issues or lack thereof in regards to the nanny. The baby is only going to get bigger and heavier. I think she lost people when she thought baby nurses were the norm, although with the clarification as to why she needed one, was glad to hear she got that help. But she lost me personally with the long hours, low pay (I know I know standard for her area) and then the demand to do other things that seem beyond taking care of the baby. I think asking her to put the humidifier together if she had time was fine, but when the nanny could not for whatever reason, there was no need to get annoyed with that.

There are a lot of complex issues at play, I believe.

Ones that go beyond this discussion.

 

[cabanafrau]

What's all the drama about a "pile on" or "burning people at the stake"? Stating differing viewpoints is simply that, differing viewpoints.

I still agree that OP has a legitimate case for making a change. I still feel that the nanny is attempting to manipulate OP into keeping her, as she did to be hired in the first place. As I said early on, that doesn't have to imply any sinister intent. I think the nanny senses the wind is blowing and is doing her best to remain in this placement. I feel OP can make the change professionally and absolutely should not toss the nanny out on her ear, but handle the separation with the decency someone who has cared diligently for your child deserves.

I also disagreed with OP about the humidifier. IMO if there is time for personal time on the internet, there was time for a parent to handle this task. I have no doubt that opinion won't go down well with a lot of people, but it's my opinion nonetheless.

Looking back at my opinions I have supported and disagreed with both OP and the nanny, so I have no clue who I'm supposed to pile on or burn at the stake.

 

[Allons-y!]

I'm having a little trouble buying onto the idea that the nanny pressured the OP and her husband in a manipulative way. Maybe she really did have another offer! It happens. Heck, it happened to me when I got my last job. Maybe she was lying, but we're only getting that opinion from the OP, who already has some negative feelings towards this woman.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm having a little trouble buying onto the idea that the nanny pressured the OP and her husband in a manipulative way. Maybe she really did have another offer! It happens. Heck, it happened to me when I got my last job. Maybe she was lying, but we're only getting that opinion from the OP, who already has some negative feelings towards this woman.

I don't even think it's just about "this woman". I'm sensing there are bigger issues involving expectations and perhaps ambivalence for OP surrounding her own role. Again, something most of us have as new mothers. But if she lives in a culture where expectations are such that they strongly influence her underlying belief of how things should be, or how they are for most, then if things are different for her, it's going to be hard to adapt to and resolve these things. Maybe nitpicking about the nanny is just a smokescreen for things she's really concerned about but can't delve into without risking a whole lot. Wondering if maybe many of her friends or peers are wealthy and/or have the option to stay home. Wondering what her upbringing was like, and about her own social status growing up. Again, not things she needs to discuss here. But it would perhaps help explain why she was unable to cope during the first weeks of her baby's life, PPD notwithstanding. I think the husband's views here are telling, and I'm wondering if he is from a different culture than his wife. (And was there an "I told you so" from her parents?) These are just examples. But if this is the case, no nanny is ever going to be satisfactory. (As we all said. But the "why" of that may be different than for many of us.)

 

[NHdisneylover]

I don't even think it's just about "this woman". I'm sensing there are bigger issues involving expectations and perhaps ambivalence for OP surrounding her own role. Again, something most of us have as new mothers. But if she lives in a culture where expectations are such that they strongly influence her underlying belief of how things should be, or how they are for most, then if things are different for her, it's going to be hard to adapt to and resolve these things. Maybe nitpicking about the nanny is just a smokescreen for things she's really concerned about but can't delve into without risking a whole lot. Wondering if maybe many of her friends or peers are wealthy and/or have the option to stay home. Wondering what her upbringing was like, and about her own social status growing up. Again, not things she needs to discuss here. But it would perhaps help explain why she was unable to cope during the first weeks of her baby's life, PPD notwithstanding. I think the husband's views here are telling, and I'm wondering if he is from a different culture than his wife. (And was there an "I told you so" from her parents?) These are just examples. But if this is the case, no nanny is ever going to be satisfactory. (As we all said. But the "why" of that may be different than for many of us.)

I've had similar thoughts.

I keep wondering if the OP is, perhaps, financially less well off than her social circle. (I think this because she says her husband drives for a living, they make less much less than the 340K someone else posted, OP did not originally plan on having a baby nurse even though most of her circle does as a matter or course, and OP and her husband are still living in a a one room apartment---none of which strikes me as the financial situation of the "typical" Manhattan family with baby nurses, nannies and imported European strollers).

If this is the case, and OP is only hearing about what to expect out of motherhood from people who can easily afford baby nurses, nannies, housekeepers, music classes for infants and nannies, etc and still have lots of time after work to socialize and discuss which class their awesome nanny has found for baby this week, etc--well, the conflict between this image and reality for OP (which is likely closer to reality for mos American mothers) may well be jarring and possibly feeding (or being fed by) the PPD---making the whole situation even harder.

It might actually be good for the OP to learn that, even if it is not the norm in her social circle, MOST mothers are exhausted and sleep deprived for several weeks or even a couple of years after having a baby. Most first time mothers struggle to fit in time with their baby among housework and showers. Most new parents really worry about that first bath or trimming little nails, etc. It's normal, and it is OK to feel that way (unless it is debilitating or controlling life, which is where PPD comes in and does need treatment).

And might be good for the OP to realize it is not normal to expect everything she is expecting out of a nanny for the rate she is paying (regardless of what her friends say or what the nanny suggested). Personally--I will say again that I think the PPD is still an issue. And I have seen in my own family that when someone is struggling with extreme anxiety one way of "coping" with that is to become very controlling and critical of others--focus those negative feelings outward as it were----and I have a strong suspicion that this is happening to at least some extent here. Which is why, I hope that OP is still checking in with her doctor very often and getting as much help as she can get (whether that help comes from the nanny, her husband her parents her friends, etc).

Hang in there OP---those first few years are a rough ride for MANY of us mothers, no mater where we live or what our income level.

 

[Kellydelly]

Of course you are going to feel compelled to come back and make the nanny sound as least attractive as you can, when everyone is telling you she deserves a job and you are being nitpicky for deciding she isn't a good fit. It is normal when attacked to try and defend yourself. I didn't see any "embellishment" of your story when I read through this thread, just additional details that better explain your concerns or just unhappiness with her abilities or lack of. You state you are concerned about this woman's mobility and then you back it up with her inability to easily traverse the stairs or manipulate your stroller. Heck, if you don't like the color of her lipstick you can fire her. It is your prerogative. You don't like her now, even if maybe you thought you did when you hired her after your baby arrived. You are not stuck with the lady, you are not wholly responsible for her livelihood, that is her concern as an adult. I can't believe anyone here thinks you just need to keep her around because you gave her a job. Like you have to keep her forever no matter how you feel. Ridiculous! Many jobs come with probation periods. Heck, personality differences have ended many nanny or babysitter jobs. That is enough of a reason to let someone go. You have to be totally comfortable with who you are bringing into your home.

So find someone you like better and give this lady a couple week's severance and make sure you get your key back! Good luck!

 

[frndshpcptn]

As a mom of two with a nanny, I'm mostly on the OP's side through this. And I really don't like the fact that people are bashing her for having a baby nurse while battling PPD.



But this raises an interesting question. If this current nanny was hired during the first few weeks of the baby's life after the PPD had set in, why wasn't there a plan for childcare earlier on? Any mother I know who plans to go back to work finds childcare during pregnancy, even if they are taking a maternity leave. I would imagine that's even more essential in NYC.

Most nannies I know are hired after the baby is born - during maternity leave.

There is an active Facebook board where people post nannies looking for work and people who need nannies and that's how a lot find their matches. Good ones are in high demand and want to start right away - so you generally hire a few weeks before going back.

I did not do it that way.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Why are the good and in high demand nannies available for immediate employment?

 

[roseaster]

I have a C-section scheduled for 3/1 and a return to work date of 9/6 and I have child care arranged.

Granted we will be using a daycare center, but we did a lot of tours and interviews before deciding on one. I would be even more scrupulous with a single stranger coming into my house.
That decision was going to be rushed no matter what.

I'm not so sure this whole "issue" was ever about the nanny herself. I think the nanny is a pawn in the argument.

 

[gwynne]

I have a C-section scheduled for 3/1 and a return to work date of 9/6 and I have child care arranged.

Granted we will be using a daycare center, but we did a lot of tours and interviews before deciding on one. I would be even more scrupulous with a single stranger coming into my house.
That decision was going to be rushed no matter what.

I'm not so sure this whole "issue" was ever about the nanny herself. I think the nanny is a pawn in the argument.

Wishing you all be best as you welcome a new little one in the coming months!
I agree with your thoughts.

 

[frndshpcptn]

I'm having a little trouble buying onto the idea that the nanny pressured the OP and her husband in a manipulative way. Maybe she really did have another offer! It happens. Heck, it happened to me when I got my last job. Maybe she was lying, but we're only getting that opinion from the OP, who already has some negative feelings towards this woman.

I actually interviewed another Nanny who did the same thing - the very next day she had another offer on the table and needed me to make a decision right away.

Maybe they both did. Maybe it's a sales tactic.

I don't know for sure - just know how it made me feel.

With the other person, I told her by all means to go ahead and take the other opportunity as I couldn't commit right away and didn't want her to lose out on work.

 

[frndshpcptn]

Why are the good and in high demand nannies available for immediate employment?

I'm not explaining well.

Many people find their nannies through referrals. That has to be pretty normal, right?

So, say you like Nanny A, but so do two other families. If I'm not going back to work for 2 months, I don't need her to start right away, so she is going to go with the family that either 1) needs her right away or 2) will pay her for the two months they don't need her full-time but want to secure her services.

So, three families want this one nanny and therefore you either pay her while not working, or find her close to when you go are going back (usually a few weeks before so you can spend time together and establish a routine)

For example, a girlfriend of mine goes back to work Feb. 4th and hired her nanny the week of 1/11.