My Own Personal 'Mad as Hell' Moment

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Courage OP. You're not alone in feeling that way. The venting didn't go well for this OP though. I'm really glad you took the time to write Disney.

http://www.disboards.com/threads/wi...-am-i-paying-for.3554222/page-4#post-56616268

Just my opinion here but when venting, which I'm all for, heck I join in and vent myself, but the way you (not you you but you as in people in general) word things as the Original Poster of a thread tends to determine the responses you get.

Want something in return=generally negative comments
Just want to express displeasure in the overall experience as a whole=generally positive comments

 

[Princesca]

Just my opinion here but when venting, which I'm all for, heck I join in and vent myself, but the way you (not you you but you as in people in general) word things as the Original Poster of a thread tends to determine the responses you get.

Want something in return=generally negative comments
Just want to express displeasure in the overall experience as a whole=generally positive comments

I agree. I don't want anything... I acknowledge Disney has to make the choices that are best for Disney. It just happens to be that those choices seem to be increasingly misaligned with what I personally want. It's just business. Im sure there are people out there who hate Star Wars and are overjoyed by this latest change.

So we'll enjoy our trip. I do wish I felt that the fireworks on 11/12 were legit and not an error, though. I don't really want to overturn all my plans for that night only for it to disappear off the schedule.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree. I don't want anything... I acknowledge Disney has to make the choices that are best for Disney. It just happens to be that those choices seem to be increasingly misaligned with what I personally want. It's just business. Im sure there are people out there who hate Star Wars and are overjoyed by this latest change.

So we'll enjoy our trip. I do wish I felt that the fireworks on 11/12 were legit and not an error, though. I don't really want to overturn all my plans for that night only for it to disappear off the schedule.

I'm glad you're still going and I'm sure you'll still enjoy your trip. I know it's hard with the refurbs..even I agree it's hard not to be upset with Disney for having soo many at once (or at least it seems that way) and then to throw a wrench in people's plans in the worst way. I'm all for new entertainment. I think this holiday event will actually be really cute but if I was planning on going I would have wanted more notice personally and that's moreso because it's the holidays..you would think as a customer (at least I would) that entertainment would be more set in stone with more advance notice. I know surprises are great but it's hard to spring these types of surprises around expected events.

And I do agree with the "vote with the wallet" mindset but it's extremely difficult when you're already emotionally and financially invested in a trip. For some they can do that and it's ok. For others they really want to but just can't actually do it.

You're just wanting to express your disappointment and I really don't blame you and it's a good thing you contacted Disney. The more people that do that the more likely (at least I think) that it gets noticed. It may not be that something actually comes from it in the near future but it could impact future decisions Disney makes.

 

[xipotec]

It just happens to be that those choices seem to be increasingly misaligned with what I personally want. It's just business. I

No , I don't think so. I think your totally right to be upset when they close rides in a slow time, and make sure everything is open for "busy times". I think they would have serious trouble in reverse. Yet the difference in what you pay is not that big.

WDW latest decisions and failures have been a bit too much...and that comes from a park veteran of 35 years.

you would think as a customer (at least I would) that entertainment would be more set in stone with more advance notice. I know surprises are great but it's hard to spring these types of surprises around expected events.
And I do agree with the "vote with the wallet" mindset but it's extremely difficult when you're already emotionally and financially invested in a trip.
You're just wanting to express your disappointment and I really don't blame you and it's a good thing you contacted Disney.

This...this exactly.

 

[MrWreckless]

The guests take up the spots 6 months in advance because that's when Disney opens the reservations. If Disney opened the reservations at 90 days or 60 days the spots would still fill up like they do at 180, but many people find planning restaurants at 60 days a lot more palatable than at 180 days.

Disneyland has a 60 day ADR window..you still need to arrange the most popular things (like a prepark opening Minnie and Friends character breakfast) ASAP...but at 60 days I am much more in the process of thinking/planning my trip than I am at 180 days.

180 days out is much better for the planner in the long run. Like you said at 60 days out your mind is much more in the process of planning out your trip, you have likely done a bit of research into the best options the parks have to offer, and family has probably given some input on things they would like to do, well so is/has everyone else. You being the Disney fan knew Ohana and BoG are very hot restaurants and you needed to either be up early and make those reservations 180 days out or need to check availability periodically after the 180 day mark to secure those reservations. With that info there is a good chance you could snag a seat and a good time for those restaurants. You limit the reservations to 60 days out and now you arent just competing against Disney fans for those seats, you are competing against a much larger percentage of people with a trip planned during that period. Its then not a matter of planning, getting a prime dinner reservation will become a lottery.

Even the best planners have trouble getting fast passes for hot rides like 7DMT because of the 60 day rule, and it causes a lot of grief on the boards. If the same situation applied to dinner it would be bedlam.

Disneyland is a much easier trip to plan as the guest volume is half of Disney World. Especially if you go during the week.

 

[kollerbear]

OK, I see what you're saying. Let me play devils' advocate. Let's say they switch ADR to 60 days, to match FP+. Imagine the mad rush to make reservations "that close" to someone's trip. Can you imagine the stress people will vent in not being sure they can get what they want so close to their vacation? Plus, let's say it's 60 days out from your big trip, you can make reservations starting at 7am. You don't get online until 7:30am for whatever reason. Everything is gone. Then what? I'd guess the uproar would be far worse than what it is now. Wouldn't you be furious that you're only 60 days away from your trip and now can't eat where you want?

For me, many of the frustrations that people voice about having to plan so far in advance and getting mad at WDW for it make no sense. I can understand wanting consistency from WDW, but I don't see it solving the problem. It's a very busy place. Guests are the ones snapping up the FP+, the ADRs, etc... It's not the guests "fault" because that's how the system works. Yet, at the same time, I don't see how WDW can avoid that. I don't know, but I would guess they strongly encourage far advance planning so that they minimize complaints of guests screaming at them "I tried to book my reservation two weeks in advance and I got nothing!! It's your fault because you didn't warn me!!"

To me, it seems like a no win situation for them. I really do understand why it's frustrating for guests, but I don't see where WDW is the root cause of the issue, or even worse what a good solution is.

Sorry I haven't read the entire post yet, but I've gotta say-- this isn't really why Disney is having you plan out in advance at all. It's all about money from their perspective. They get a lot more money from folks making reservations 180 days out when the money those reservations will cost is a distant plan rather than 60 days out, when you're looking at the stuff that's come up and start thinking maybe you could do a few more quick service meals, after all. Having you plan means you're a LOT more likely to eat in a restaurant than quick service. If your reservation is locked in and sought after you're a lot less likely to cancel it, even if on the day or even a week beforehand you *could* cancel it to save yourself some money and make it a cheaper vacation. I feel extremely confident that the more they ask us to plan, the more money they get, plain and simple. Those choices are made and the monetary commitment is made far before you set foot in the park, with your own optimistic view of how much you will be able to afford in half a year.

 

[kollerbear]

180 days out is much better for the planner in the long run. Like you said at 60 days out your mind is much more in the process of planning out your trip, you have likely done a bit of research into the best options the parks have to offer, and family has probably given some input on things they would like to do, well so is/has everyone else. You being the Disney fan knew Ohana and BoG are very hot restaurants and you needed to either be up early and make those reservations 180 days out or need to check availability periodically after the 180 day mark to secure those reservations. With that info there is a good chance you could snag a seat and a good time for those restaurants. You limit the reservations to 60 days out and now you arent just competing against Disney fans for those seats, you are competing against a much larger percentage of people with a trip planned during that period. Its then not a matter of planning, getting a prime dinner reservation will become a lottery.

Even the best planners have trouble getting fast passes for hot rides like 7DMT because of the 60 day rule, and it causes a lot of grief on the boards. If the same situation applied to dinner it would be bedlam.

Disneyland is a much easier trip to plan as the guest volume is half of Disney World. Especially if you go during the week.

I agree with you that the planning is good for the fans, but they are creating two classes of experiences for your vacation dollars. There will always be those folks who don't know Fastpass was included in their admission, and they're experiencing a much different time at the park than those of us in the know. Creating an uber-planning group who is their base, who spends a lot of money with them and knows all there is to offer, is only setting themselves up-- that group is going to be upset and disappointed when the rug is pulled out from under them because they're probably spending a LOT more money and time on average (e.g. over the course of a 5 years period) at Disney than the other folks. Meanwhile, they're alienating a lot of other folks who are shut out of experiences. I'm OK with popular experiences being limited for me if it means that there's more equality in availability for everyone, like it works in Disneyland. It seems more fair and more sustainable in the long run. I actually love 180 day dining and FP+, but I'm worried about where it's heading for the park and what it says about whether they value the experience of all guests or just those with more money. Infrequent visitors, might not have known to book Cinderella 6 months out, but I think it's important they have a shot. As it stands now, they don't. I'm OK if it's not something I do every trip if it means a kid gets to do it once in their life on the day trip their folks scrimped and saved for.

 

[xipotec]

I'm OK if it's not something I do every trip if it means a kid gets to do it once in their life on the day trip their folks scrimped and saved for.

And this it truly sad.....
I have "been there done that" for everything in the parks.....but for those who have not and will not ever again?

Then WDW should be embarrassed for the closures last few months.....I do not care what anyone says...the closures are increasing....for longer periods....and the prices keep rising!

Should be VERY interesting if BTMRR, Stitch, Treehouse, Dinosaur are all still close TG week due to continued delays.....

 

[mom2rtk]

And this it truly sad.....
I have "been there done that" for everything in the parks.....but for those who have not and will not ever again?

Then WDW should be embarrassed for the closures last few months.....I do not care what anyone says...the closures are increasing....for longer periods....and the prices keep rising!

Should be VERY interesting if BTMRR, Stitch, Treehouse, Dinosaur are all still close TG week due to continued delays.....

Since they said the Stitch closure is about it going "seasonal" you should expect it to be open Thanksgiving week.

 

[GPC0321]

No , I don't think so. I think your totally right to be upset when they close rides in a slow time, and make sure everything is open for "busy times". I think they would have serious trouble in reverse.

Naturally, they're not going to want popular attractions down during their busiest times of the year. So, that means the attractions have to go down during the "off" times, and that's a risk people take when planning to visit during those times.

I think when you've gone to WDW enough times that the closure of a few rides and the change of a fireworks show is enough to make you write a nasty-gram to Disney, it probably IS time to move on to a new vacation destination for a while. Nothing at all wrong with that.

It's always good to share concerns with a company though. No harm in that.

 

[Angel Ariel]

180 days out is much better for the planner in the long run. Like you said at 60 days out your mind is much more in the process of planning out your trip, you have likely done a bit of research into the best options the parks have to offer, and family has probably given some input on things they would like to do, well so is/has everyone else. You being the Disney fan knew Ohana and BoG are very hot restaurants and you needed to either be up early and make those reservations 180 days out or need to check availability periodically after the 180 day mark to secure those reservations. With that info there is a good chance you could snag a seat and a good time for those restaurants. You limit the reservations to 60 days out and now you arent just competing against Disney fans for those seats, you are competing against a much larger percentage of people with a trip planned during that period. Its then not a matter of planning, getting a prime dinner reservation will become a lottery.

Even the best planners have trouble getting fast passes for hot rides like 7DMT because of the 60 day rule, and it causes a lot of grief on the boards. If the same situation applied to dinner it would be bedlam.

Disneyland is a much easier trip to plan as the guest volume is half of Disney World. Especially if you go during the week.

Disney World did not move to 180 day reservations until 2009. Before that, IIRC, it was 90 days. It wasn't the picture you paint it to be for most restaurants. For Cinderella's Royal Table? Definitely. Character meals in general? That's true at all parks. But it wasn't any more of an issue than it is now for restaurants beyond that - and, in many cases, it was much less of an issue.

 

[xipotec]

I don't know how I feel about 180 change.....at first I thought it was a good idea.....now I am not so sure. If you can't view entertainment or park hours....and refurbs are going to be announced later and later......whats the point of 180 days?

It just causes more grief earlier in planning when you may not have the full picture of the day...

Example: We made a dinner for Yak and Yeti at 5:30pm planning on eating them leaving the park...now AK its open till 7:00pm...which is great....but had we known that we definitely would have made our dinner later....or earlier...has ROL been finished.

 

[Princesca]

Also - Star Wars fireworks problems for me now. I'm thrilled they're being offered the last time on the day I arrive, but I had already made plans to be in EPCOT that night. I chose THAT night for my FEA fp+ and a nice dinner at Monsieur Paul's... now of course there are no FPs for FEA any of the three days I'm going to be in EPCOT. So if I give up FEA to see Star Wars, I will likely have to do it standby. We had also planned to see Big Bad Voodoo Daddy that day, so we'd miss that, and have to cancel our dinner reservation. Ugh.

So I'm going to leave it up to my partner. Right now, I'm leaning toward just missing it. I hate that, but overturning three things to get over to DHS by 8 is a PITA.

 

[loves to dive]

The guests take up the spots 6 months in advance because that's when Disney opens the reservations. If Disney opened the reservations at 90 days or 60 days the spots would still fill up like they do at 180, but many people find planning restaurants at 60 days a lot more palatable than at 180 days.

Disneyland has a 60 day ADR window..you still need to arrange the most popular things (like a prepark opening Minnie and Friends character breakfast) ASAP...but at 60 days I am much more in the process of thinking/planning my trip than I am at 180 days.

DW used to be a 30 day ADR window and evidently, too many people complained they couldn't get ADRs because they were already booked so they extended it and extended it. They really can't win for losing when it comes to ADRs and FPs.

OP I understand your frustration and it sounds like you need a break, it happens to everyone who goes often (well not me I used to go every other year, after a while uped that to every year and then uped that to twice a year and would go every 3 months of finances and my honey allowed it). As you said, there are loads of places out there to see, take a break and maybe some time in the future, you will be back to Disney or find another love.

 

[Angel Ariel]

They really can't win for losing when it comes to ADRs and FPs.

The problems - at least the ones I have - with ADRs and FP+ are ones of Disney's own doing.

If they want guests to plan 180 days out, then they shold have their schedules set 180 days out. Last minute maintenance required refurbs are one thing...delaying on releasing park hours and entertainment schedules is different.

If they want the flexibility in their park hours and entertainment schedules to be able to change them around as Disney gets better ideas of what their attendance will be, then their reservation windows should reflect that and not be so far out.

And,IMO, whatever the reservations, I think it's ridiculous that the fp+ and ADR timeline is so different. I understand separating them to an extent, but by 4 months is a lot. The windows, whatever time out from arrival, should be closer together. People are making multiple ADRs to account for the fact that they don't know wherr they are going to be able to get their fp+ for yet, which puts an undue stress on the ADR system as well and causes scrambling when people can't get the fp+ they want (whether it's time, day, etc).

I get that MM+ is here to stay at WDW. I don't expect anything else. But I don't feel bad for Disney either.

 

[loves to dive]

The problems - at least the ones I have - with ADRs and FP+ are ones of Disney's own doing.

If they want guests to plan 180 days out, then they shold have their schedules set 180 days out. Last minute maintenance required refurbs are one thing...delaying on releasing park hours and entertainment schedules is different.

If they want the flexibility in their park hours and entertainment schedules to be able to change them around as Disney gets better ideas of what their attendance will be, then their reservation windows should reflect that and not be so far out.

And,IMO, whatever the reservations, I think it's ridiculous that the fp+ and ADR timeline is so different. I understand separating them to an extent, but by 4 months is a lot. The windows, whatever time out from arrival, should be closer together. People are making multiple ADRs to account for the fact that they don't know wherr they are going to be able to get their fp+ for yet, which puts an undue stress on the ADR system as well and causes scrambling when people can't get the fp+ they want (whether it's time, day, etc).

I get that MM+ is here to stay at WDW. I don't expect anything else. But I don't feel bad for Disney either.

I get what you are saying and really do feel that for some the magic has been lost and they feel like they are forced to do all this planning and then get disappointed when things are down or schedules change. Just one tiny comment, Disney does not force you to do anything. You can not book an ADR 180 days out and still get plenty of places to eat and you can not book a FP 60 days out and still ride plenty of rides. Yes, you might not be able to get the "must do" rides or eat at the "must eat at" restaurants but let's face it, they are only must do because someone else thought they should be. We never make ADRs any further in advance than the night before, nor do we book FPs any further in advance than the night before. Have there been times we haven't ridden "the ride" yep, but there have also been times we've discovered new rides and new places to eat doing it that way.

 

[mom2rtk]

I get what you are saying and really do feel that for some the magic has been lost and they feel like they are forced to do all this planning and then get disappointed when things are down or schedules change. Just one tiny comment, Disney does not force you to do anything. You can not book an ADR 180 days out and still get plenty of places to eat and you can not book a FP 60 days out and still ride plenty of rides. Yes, you might not be able to get the "must do" rides or eat at the "must eat at" restaurants but let's face it, they are only must do because someone else thought they should be. We never make ADRs any further in advance than the night before, nor do we book FPs any further in advance than the night before. Have there been times we haven't ridden "the ride" yep, but there have also been times we've discovered new rides and new places to eat doing it that way.

That's where opinions split. Some people are not looking for "a" place to eat. They are looking for a specific place to eat. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

And some people, particularly the ones that don't get to come back several times a year really will leave disappointed if they don't get to ride specific rides. And there's nothing wrong with that either. And no, it's not always just because someone else said they should ride it. Some people think independently and have decided all on their own they really want to ride that ride. You know, the one Disney is probably using to advertise the parks?

I'm glad last minute works for you. But not everyone is the same. It sounds like if you don't get to ride "the ride" you'll have another chance in the near future. That's just not the case for everyone.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I get what you are saying and really do feel that for some the magic has been lost and they feel like they are forced to do all this planning and then get disappointed when things are down or schedules change. Just one tiny comment, Disney does not force you to do anything. You can not book an ADR 180 days out and still get plenty of places to eat and you can not book a FP 60 days out and still ride plenty of rides. Yes, you might not be able to get the "must do" rides or eat at the "must eat at" restaurants but let's face it, they are only must do because someone else thought they should be. We never make ADRs any further in advance than the night before, nor do we book FPs any further in advance than the night before. Have there been times we haven't ridden "the ride" yep, but there have also been times we've discovered new rides and new places to eat doing it that way.

I never said anyone was forced to make ADRs or fp+. My comments were about what Disney wants people to do, and clearly they do *want* people to plan ADRs far in advance and fp+ in advance, or they wouldn't have made the systems to be what they are. Of course that doesn't mean anyone is forced to do so.

 

[MrWreckless]

I never said anyone was forced to make ADRs or fp+. My comments were about what Disney wants people to do, and clearly they do *want* people to plan ADRs far in advance and fp+ in advance, or they wouldn't have made the systems to be what they are. Of course that doesn't mean anyone is forced to do so.

Im not so sure its a matter of what Disney wants as opposed to a system that looks to address some of the issues people had with long lines for rides and high demand for particular restaurants.

DLR and WDW are two completely different animals so what works for one doesnt necessarily work for the other. Although i do agree that it sucks to have to make dining reservations without even knowing the park schedule yet. Thats an area that needs addressing and i would be in the camp of releasing the schedule earlier instead of pushing back the window to make dining reservations.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Im not so sure its a matter of what Disney wants as opposed to a system that looks to address some of the issues people had with long lines for rides and high demand for particular restaurants.

Disney said in their own marketing that they wanted guests to "lock in" (their wording from their own commercial) their trips as soon as possible. That is why I say that if Disney wants guests to lock it in (as they've specifically said they do), then Disney should approach some other things differently.

MyMagic+ is about a lot more than line management and restaurant adrs. There's been lots of discussion here and elsewhere about Disney using MM+ to adjust other aspects of park operations (like staffing levels). Disney spent 2 billion dollars designing this system...they designed a system to address what they wanted it to address. Now in execution it may not have turned out as they planned, but they didn't spend 2 billion dollars to design something they didn't want.

DLR and WDW are two completely different animals so what works for one doesnt necessarily work for the other. Although i do agree that it sucks to have to make dining reservations without even knowing the park schedule yet. Thats an area that needs addressing and i would be in the camp of releasing the schedule earlier instead of pushing back the window to make dining reservations.

I understand DLR and WDW are different animals. I've spent a lot of time at both and I appreciate them both for their differences. Personally, I think WDW has room to make adjustments on some of the things that cause guests planning headaches, but I don't feel that the management for Orlando really cares about it at all. I certainly don't think it is changing any time soon. That's not to say some of those planning headaches don't exist at DLR - they do (just check our the Christmas superthread on the dlr forum here...less than 1 month to go and disney is being quite stingy with entertainment schedules). But, overall it's less of an issue at DLR because of the freedom that exists with adrs and legacy fp. WDW created the adr and fp frenzy that exists by designing and implementing a system in which the point is to lock it in early. I don't blame guests for getting frustrated when WDW changes everything up on them months after they've made their plans.