My notes on the DVC focus group I went to (kinda long and probably boring, but...)

[Beth]

HaHa, KNWVIKING!

I'm sure THAT comment made even the DVC employees who we KNOW lurk this board LOL!!

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by PKS44

What evidence is there that DVC poolhoppers represent an unbearable extra capacity at SAB? Not what does Disney say, but what are the actual facts? If SAB was so strained, one would expect to see or hear about it- but people report quite the opposite during the off season- very small crowds...IF they had let the BCV open with the same policy that all the other pools have and IF then they had an issue, it would be easier to believe their reasoning, they would have some actual hard facts and evidence that this was an issue...instead this policy was decided before the place opened and mentioned often in the sales pitch that SAB would be restricted "so you better buy at BCV"-
Paul

What evidence do you have to the contrary? We've had reports on this very board suggesting many times when SAB has been crowded and guests were unable to find a place to sit. Why not take some of that as evidence? Some have recently reported similar concerns about the WL pool. Disney does have access to a wide variety of information, not generally available to the public- including the results of those mailed and online surveys. I'm certain that the BC/YC does have clear data showing just what the pool usage is for every 100 guests all through the year. When they add in the expected occupancy of BCV and apply similar usage of SAB, they can very easily estimate a number for the daily utilization of SAB. I'm also certain that they have good data showing the number of DVC pool hoppers at SAB and have already used those numbers in making their decision.

Just curious, in what sales information did you find your "so you better buy at BCV" quote - or is that just a paraphrase to support your complaint rather than a direct quote?

 

[yesdisneyfool]

Thanks MM for your detailed report from your recent focus group meeting. We all had hoped it would not be so structured whereas Disney provided the questions and you the answers.

It would be nice to hear from the other focus groups. Did they say if they'd be contacting you for your comments into the handling of the meeting?

 

[PKS44]

I am sure those who took the sales tour for BCV before it opened as I did can tell that they mentioned that SAB would be restricted.

Different people can differ on their willingness to accept the Disney excuse as true. The issue is not whether or not SAB needs to have access restricted at busy times. So people on this board reported it has been busy there and at other pools? That is not the question. No one has ever suggested that poolhopping should be allowed ALL the time at the expense of YC/BC/BCV guests.

It is certain that SAB needs to be restricted at times. Other pools do too--it has always been the policy that poolhopping can be restricted at busy times and that poolhoppers might be asked to leave. Any reasonable poolhopper accepted this with grace. There is no reason they could not continue to do the same thing. The only issue is how often is it an issue and is the management of crowding at SAB so much worse than other pools to take it out of poolhopping circulation all the time. Since they are currently policing SAB ALL the time it seems ludicrous to suggest that only policing it when it was truly busy would be MORE expensive than the current approach.

It is absolutely incontrovertible that SAB is not so crowded all of the time... There is no room for difference of opinion on this. SAB is simply not at or anywhere near capacity all of the time. Anyone who says so is mislead or lying. So which policy would be easier? full time policing of the pool as is currently done? Or the old --call first, be prepared to be asked to leave if necessary policy? According to Disney it is easier to police all the time-maybe it is...it certainly would have been a lot easier to believe if they actually ever tried it the other way first. Unless you just believe that Disney always makes the right decision based on their data-- in which case I have two words for you- Character Caravan.

Paul

 

[Mickey_Maniac]

Sorry I have been MIA for a while. Things have been crazy at work.

To answer a couple of people who asked about whether there was any indication that they would be following up with us, no there was not. As a matter of fact, our moderator semed to imply that we would not hear anything further specifically related to the focus group.

As for the other topic of conversation going on here re: pool hopping. I dont really want to jump into the middle of a lively discussion, but IMHO I think you are missing the point we were trying to make in the focus group. Yes, we all know that pool hopping at SAB is prohibited, but our real concern was that members (or even guests) who stay at SAB get preferential treatment over those that stay at any of the other DVC resorts. There is nothing that categorically denies BC guests from pool hopping to ANY other resort, and yet SAB is completely out of the question for the rest of us.

I cant deny that SAB is very nice and probably does get very busy at times, but the policy should be based on attendance on any given day, not on a blanket policy that has no leeway.

As I stated in an earlier post, if you are going to ban pool hopping completely for any one resort, it should be the same for all members at all resorts. While I obviously do not think this is the best solution, it is the most fair. I would much prefer that we be allowed to hop if it is not busy.

Thats my two cents worth.

 

[childsplay]

I understand the not fair argument in relation to SAB but the "problem" is that Disney created a pool like no other when they built SAB, and while admittedly I don't have any data to back me up, it would seem resonable to expect that on any given day there are not alot of people who are staying at BCV and hopping to OKW. In other words, the hopping is very one sided when it comes to SAB.
Add in Disneys claims that:
1) It is over crowded, at least a large part of the time (which I am not sure I believe)
and
2) It is easier to police with a blanket policy (which I absolutely believe, once word gets out the problem solves itself.....its like the bar in the local college town that is know for strict ID checks....eventually the word gets out and the minors find more loosely enforced places. ie. WL)

Together these "facts" create the perfect opportunity to market BCV with SAB as the hook. It would be interesting to find out how many people added on at BCV just so they could have access to SAB..........I know we did..........OKW will always be my "home" and the place I love best but my 5, 3 and 2 year old children love SAB so we added on.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by childsplay
2) It is easier to police with a blanket policy (which I absolutely believe, once word gets out the problem solves itself.....its like the bar in the local college town that is know for strict ID checks....eventually the word gets out and the minors find more loosely enforced places. ie. WL)

Not sure I understand the word "easier" the same as you do- Current blanket policy requires an employee to check ALL guests entering, give them a wristband, police the pool for wristband wearers, etc. Every day all the time the pool is open.

Alternately, they could only do the same thing on days when the pool is crowded, or expected to be crowded. For example, in January, that would be like ---let me see...never.

So how is blanket easier. It is not cheaper or less time consuming...you seem to imply it will create fewer "incidents" or conflicts as most poolhoppers will just stay away-and that is likely true-but only so long as they remain very strict- which as I pointed out above, is not such an easy thing to do all the time. If they were strict ONLY when needed- as they are at every other pool-people would also likely figure out that if it's a crowded time there is no point in trying to go there also- without any blanket policy-you get the same discouraging effect and do so more easily and do so at the time when you actually really need to keep them away. So it still seems most likely that like you- Disney's data showed that people were most interested in buying BCV for the pool- they could get a similar location/resort experience at less cost thru BWV-available thru resale or lately Disney-so I am sure their data told them that a good way to move BCV was to stop the unfettered access to SAB. Surely they have data on what effect doing so might have on sales..or do they only collect data to enhance guest experiences and never bother trying to calculate sales and profit issues? Sure.

Paul

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

I am almost sure that one of the main reasons to not allow pool hopping at SAB was to increase BCV sales. It makes perfect sense. I just happen to be buying at this time. DVC gave me opportunity to buy at BWV, WLV, or BCV. Which one did I choose? The one that had an extra benefit. 11 Month window at BCV with SAB, so that when my 14 mo gets a little older, he can enjoy that pool. That said... Some have wondered what DVC will use for a "hook" when they start to sell SSR, and whether or not the price per point will again increase. I am not sure what the hook will be. I am not sure is DVC knows what the hook will be. But they sure knew what the hook was for BCV, considering that it is at 87% or so only 11 months after opening for business. If DVC is going to continue to raise the price per point, they are going need to offer more broad based discounts and offer reort specific benefits. This can be done with room size, or reort amentities.

 

[manning]

One thing they have to remember, happy members are more likely to add-on and tell their friends about DVC.

Happy members are also more inclined to stay (not go off-site) and spend more money on site.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I think I know where childsplay was going with "easier" and I would basically agree. AKL's policy is easy. NO POOL HOPPING. Nothing to misinterprete. No way one CM can say one thing,another say something different.No gray areas. AKL is a new resort so this was an easy policy to lay down-how could DVC members claim they lost something when they never had it to begin with. Now what do you do with SAB ? Even without DVC'ers pool hopping,SAB had a problem with gate crashers. We've all read numerous posts about even the local population just walking in and making themselves right at home. Disney HAD to do something. So here comes the wrist bands, which is not a bad idea. Disney gets a black eye everytime they are conceived as being too cheap to spend the money to correct a problem, but in this case they bit the bullet and spend money on a program to give Y&B resort guests a better experience. It also gave them an easy way to end pool hopping there. I think we all agree that SAB was the pool hoppers choice location. Even if SAB wasn't a special pool,the sheer location of Y&B makes their pool a great choice. I don't agree with the NO HOPPING AT ALL policy because I believe there are months when SAB could easily handle additional people, but the NO policy is easier to enforce- just like AKL,no gray areas. As for the additional expense... maybe once EVERYBODY is aware of the wristbands and realize that Disney is serious about keeping non-resort guests out, then they won't need CM's policing the area 365 days a year. As an offset to the current program expense, I wonder how many man hours are saved by CM's not answering phone calls by DVC'ers wondering if it's "okay to pool hop today" ?

As a side note, we purchased at BCV, it had nothing to do with SAB, only reason was proximity to Epcot. Of course,SAB is a bonus, but we would have purchased BCV even if SAB didn't exist.

 

[childsplay]

I think PKS44 and I are making the same argument from different angles. I absolutley agree that Disney elimanated pool hopping to SAB to spur sales of BCV, I just don't think that is the only reason. I believe that SAB was overcrowded more frequently than any other Disney resort. Again no data, just personal opinion.

(Also, when I wrote "easier" I was thinking more along the the lines of what KNWVIKING stated much more elequently........that there would be no "grey area" , and I have no argument with PKS44's point that it is more costly to implement this policy.)

***Made up numbers for the purpose of demonstration:

Number of days guests at OKW complained of over crowding at the pools: 3

Number of days guests at BC/YC complained: 50

Now, do you need to eliminate pool hopping entirely because of 50 over crowded days.....No.........is it "easier"........Yes........and best of all it spurs sales of your new resort!!!!

In conclusion, "percentage breakdown of why pool hopping was eliminated at SAB according to Childsplay" drum roll please...........

85% to spur sales at BCV
15% to control overcrowding

 

[Tom and Jen]

Extemely well put!!!! Hooorah

Calvin Coolidge once said: "the business of this country is business" All things Disney...........is business. They would not continue to be if not. I do mind that if I am willing to pay for it.

I do agree however with a previus comment regarding "NO" pool hopping. There are less busy times that members could be allowed to hop. It is hard to swallow that, when sold something it is mentioned as a "selling perc" but only to loose it completely when they say.........oops. Modify, fine, I think we understand business.......and courtesy. We all choose to make an longterm investment in an idea and service, not lifetime but definitely long term.

This is a most valuable and well spent IMO investment, i do not deny that. "what if", and i know thats dangerous, They decide to change how park access is defined in relationship to DVC. "All members must now purchase a complete LOS for their entire time regardless of their interest to go to the parks or not." Thats exteme..........i hope, but hey, maybe they need to bolster $ for Papa Disney, and thats a shoe in.

Modify ok........eliminate......I've got issues.........but hey thats a whole other story..lol

Thanks for your time
T.

 

[Denine]

DH also attended a focus group. His was May 21st at 2 PM. He described it almost exactly the same way you did, including the moderator leaving the room and the feeling of the 8 people was so they could speak freely.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
As a side note, we purchased at BCV, it had nothing to do with SAB, only reason was proximity to Epcot. Of course,SAB is a bonus, but we would have purchased BCV even if SAB didn't exist.

Just curious, Viking, but did you buy a small contract or something else that made you choose BCV over a BWV resale? It would seem to me that if your purchase had nothing to do with SAB, what would make you choose BCV over BWV?

BTW- remember when AKL opened it was not just the pool that was restricted- it was the whole resort- NO ONE was to be allowed in there unless they were staying there or had a restaurant PS there. They soon dropped that when they realized demand was not what they had hoped.

Paul

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Just curious, Viking, but did you buy a small contract or something else that made you choose BCV over a BWV resale? "

BCV was an add-on. Our original purchase we chose OKW over BWV but quite honestly I'm not certain I understood just how close to Epcot BWV was, I bought DVC during only our 2nd trip ever to WDW. We stayed at BWV once,liked it,loved the location, but still not certain I would chose it over OKW if I had the chance to do it over again. Then along comes BCV. About the only people who can beat me into Epcot are the people staying in BC. BCV was just the perfect fit for F&W trips in Oct. Another bonus was the location of the BCV parking lot-very handY. We always have a car and I'm not one for valet'ing all the time.

To me there is no one perfect resort for all seasons. We stay at BCV for F&W, VWL for Christmas season & OKW in May when we do a lot of off property trips.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

So you can't stay at OKW and hop to the BCV pool... If you want to use the BCV pool, why don't you just make a reservation there? Any DVC owner can... Our home is OKW, but we've stayed at WL, HHI, BW and had ressies at BC but scrapped those plans in favor of Vegas (wife's choice). We've never had problems getting reservations in the 7-month window at any of these resorts. Personally, I've never figured out what the big deal is with pool-hopping. If I want to go swimming, I'd rather be close to my room any way. And if you want slides, either book at BCV or spend the $25 to go to TL or BB....

Just my $0.02

 

[KNWVIKING]

I think what you're missing is the "unfair" advantage BCV owners have over the rest of the DVC resorts. I own and stay at BCV and I can swim at your OKW pool. You own and stay at OKW,but you can't swim at mine. Assuming we all paid the same price, which owners have more value. Of course we can book at other resorts at the 7 month window- though there is no guarantee of getting in- but if I own and love staying at OKW, why should I have to use more points and stay somewhere maybe I don't like,just to be able to try out SAB ?

 

[Mickey_Maniac]

Viking,
That is exactly what I was trying to convey in last post. Thanks for saying it so much simpler.

 

[RobDoc]

I think what you're missing is the "unfair" advantage BCV owners have over the rest of the DVC resorts.

Where you own is irrelevant- use of SAB depends entirely on where you happen to be staying on points. I own at OKW and have stayed at BCV twice and was able to enjoy SAB. I can also use my OKW points at YC and use SAB. In addition, I paid less in dues for my stays at BCV (than any BCV owner) and still got to use SAB. Using the same logic, maybe OKW owners have an "unfair" advantage, since they can stay at BCV (granted- it's only at 7 months) and their fees are lower.

Just because you own at BCV gives you no advantage regarding SAB unless you stay there. I don't see any "unfair" advantage for BCV owners unless they choose to completely fill their resort year round before 7 months and thus prevent other members from ever finding a reservation there (but they can still reserve at YC 11 months in advance if SAB is that important to them.)

 

[KNWVIKING]

But, unless you own at BCV there is no guarantee you will ever get to stay there and use SAB.

Another mantra on this board is "buy where you want to stay". You own at VWL and don't want to ever stay at BCV so you're excluded from SAB. I own at BCV and never want to stay at VWL, but I'm free to use your pool. You bought enough points at OKW to stay two weeks per year. Want to try SAB, better change your trip length,you'll need more points. Gotta big family, always need an OKW GV, guess your not going to swim at SAB.

Maybe you don't see anything unfair about the situation,I do. Swimming at SAB may require someone to do something they would not otherwise do if SAB was not totally eliminated from PH.