My horrible ongoing saga (long)

[jagmeister]

Hello folks,

I just wanted to pass on my recent and ongoing experience to fellow DIS members in hopes you can prevent this from happening to you.

I recently rented my DVC points to another member and agreed to accept payment through Paypal. As most of you know, Paypal is an online business that transfers funds for it's members. Anyway, Paypal decided that the amount of the transfer was too large and decided to flag my account. They placed a limit on my account which prevents me from transferring any funds out of my account. They requested all kinds of documentation and phone calls, which I completed.. to no avail. Why you ask?

Bit of history: Back in 2002, my wife had a paypal account which she successfully used for 3-4 years. Then one day, she sold a computer on Ebay and accepted payment from an individual who paid through Paypal. The money was trasferred to her paypal account, several days later she transferred the money to our bank account, she then mailed the computer. After receiving the computer, the individual reversed the paypal payment and Paypal charged her account (around $1100). Even though we showed them proof of delivery, pictures of the computer, affadavits, they simply did not care. They locked up her account and it remained that way until today.

Now roll forward to last week. I also have a Paypal account which I've been using for several years. Because of the flagging, Paypal decided to tie both accounts together and place the hold on my account. They have over $2500 in my account that they will not release. It does not matter to them that it's my wife's account or that the amount is only $1100.

I've learned my lesson with Paypal. I never thought something like this could happen to us, but it did...twice. I understand it's my fault for not closing my account when paypal charged back the original amounts but I never thought they would do something like this.

I know many of you utilize paypal without any problems. I just throw this out as a warning so you can take the neccesary precautions, and not suffer like I have. There are several forums dealing with paypal, I suggest you educate yourselves and make an informed decision whether to continue using the service.

Thank you for listening to my complaints.

Regards,
Rob

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Wow that sounds just awful. Thank You for the warning!

 

[Gary K. D.]

I will also issue a warning regarding Pay Pal. I mistakenly pressed the "Pay " key twice when authorizing payment and therefore a duplicate payment was sent. Neither Pay Pal nor the recipient wishes to remedy this situation. While I am not out a huge amount of money ($342.00) the idea that I have no recourse other than through the courts is ridiculous. A I recently saw a class action suit filed against Pay Pal for many of their short commings. I hope they have learned their lesson and another user friendly payment service surfaces.

 

[DarrenSt]

T^his is one reason I will never use Pay Pal that and it is to easy for the buyer to do exactly what you said cry fould and say they never recieved the goods and you lose out. You get nothing for the effort and they always want a cut.

 

[Beth76]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I've been thinking of maybe selling some things on Ebay. Do you have to use paypal? I don't think I want to take my chances.

 

[WDWorld2003]

I'm sorry to hear this. I can't believe they can get away with this... Visa/Mastercard, etc. could not be a hold on a merchant's account or both the credit company and merchant would cease to do business. They can only put a hold on the amount in question.

I finally opened a separate checking account for any business I do with Paypal as I've heard of many situations like this. It still wouldn't help in you but I don't want them to have access to our main checking account or any ready reserve. You should report this to the Attorney General's office in your state... if they get enough complaints they will take action. Also, Ebay should take some responsibility for your wife's transaction... I don't like that they have ties with Paypal - seems like a conflict of interest to me. Was the computer ever returned to you?

I hope they resolve things for you soon.... let us know what happens.

 

[Missy1961]

Originally posted by Beth76
I'm sorry that happened to you. I've been thinking of maybe selling some things on Ebay. Do you have to use paypal? I don't think I want to take my chances.

No, you don't have to use PayPal. In fact, it might be better if you don't--PayPal fees can be killer if you accept credit cards. IMO, you're better off taking money orders/cashier checks or even personel checks (as long as you state that you ship AFTER the check clears) than PayPal. I'm sorry I got involved with PayPal. My experiences haven't bad as bad as the OP's, but I hate the fees.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

I would HIGHLY urge anyone considering using Paypal to visit the web site :

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

If you haven't had a problem with them yet, you've just been lucky. Even with their so called seller protection plan, sellers on Paypal have virtually no rights, and all a fraudulent bidder usually has to do is reverse the charges and your account will be locked.

 

[RichAyers]

or some other type of traceable delivery service.

If you are talking about any level of dollars you might regret, I urge you to use USPS "delivery confirmation" or some such service via UPS, FedEx, etc. You get written confirmation that the buyer has received the package. Maybe I wouldn't care if it was 20-30 bucks, but if you're talking computers, etc, It is worth the couple bucks.

I really only use PayPal with ebay, not with DVC. A money order/cashier's check may be "old fashioned", but it ALWAYS works!

Rich

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by RichAyers
or some other type of traceable delivery service.

If you are talking about any level of dollars you might regret, I urge you to use USPS "delivery confirmation" or some such service via UPS, FedEx, etc. You get written confirmation that the buyer has received the package. Maybe I wouldn't care if it was 20-30 bucks, but if you're talking computers, etc, It is worth the couple bucks.

I really only use PayPal with ebay, not with DVC. A money order/cashier's check may be "old fashioned", but it ALWAYS works!

Rich

I always use USPS or UPS with delivery confirmation and I've still had problems. It's actually not enough if the buyer fights it. Paypal will almost always side with the buyer.

 

[disneysnowflake]

Yep. I've used paypal for a long time, and some of their rules stink.

I paid for an auction on ebay from a person I knew from a doll collector club. I used the money in my paypal balance. The item never arrived. The seller took off with my money and money from several other people. I notified paypal about this within 30 days of my paying. After paypal "investigated", and 4 weeks after I filed a claim with paypal I was told too bad so sad. My refund was ZERO because I paid with my existing balance and the seller withdrew all the funds. I told paypal that from now on I'll use a credit card only to protect myself. I was told on the phone that paypal will close my account if I ever do a chargeback.

Well, months go by. My case with paypal is closed. I never rec'd my item. Then I get a call from a grandmother in Ontario who decided after reading about this lady scamming people to get involved. After 3 months of waiting I got my item I bought. I also just this past Monday got a refund from the seller with Paypal. The seller was apparently now trying to keep herself out of trouble with the law.

Do you know what paypal did? They sent me a letter telling me that THEY got me the refund, and then sent me another letter telling me they wanted me to fill out a survey to rate their wonderful service in getting my money back. Paypal had closed this case months before and wiped their hands of it leaving me with nothing... and now they want praise because the seller gave me a refund so she wouldn't be in trouble with the law. Paypal closed my case right after they "investigated". What a bunch of crap.

I'm leary now of using paypal. I've used it for a long time. I'm afraid to take payments because I'm afraid some scammer will do a chargeback. I'm afraid to send payments because I'm not sure if someone will scam me again. While it's convenient I don't trust it.

I hope you get your money back. Paypal really stinks sometimes.

 

[JimB.]

Have you tried this??

Call Paypal.

Very nicely ask them for the name of their "registered agent" in the state you live in. That's basically whoever they use to represent them on legal matters in your state.

Tell them that if your $1100 is not released, you will be filing a civil notice against them in your local small claims court. They will either a.) have to defend themselves in court. b.) Not show up & default or c.) Give you the $$.

You'll probably have to pay some $$ to get the suit delivered to the registered agent, but I tried this in a similar situation a few years ago & it worked like a charm. Issue resolved within 5 days at no cost to me.

May work for you, may not. But it might be worth investigating further.

 

[lenshanem]

Hubby bought something on ebay using paypal and never received the item. Neither venue would help.

 

[normr]

How can someone reverse charges?

 

[yourtravelpro]

I've been screwed by paypal also. They don't care if you have proof of delivery or not, they protect the buyer not the seller.

 

[chrissyk]

I had a Paypal chargeback processed on me by an Ebay buyer. The buyer tried to no avail to get it straightened out with Paypal (she didn't purposefully file the chargeback...Paypal did it "for" her.). Paypal wouldn't help the buyer to straighten out the situation. She was honest enough to repay me with Bidpay.

I was lucky. I learned my lesson about dealing with Paypal as an Ebay seller. I will still accept the occasional small Paypal payment, but now 99% of my business is international. I went to great lengths to open a bank account in an EU country, and I accept only direct bank transfer for my transactions. There is no risk of chargeback fraud that way. Opening the bank account was difficult, time-consuming, and cumbersome. However, it was worthwhile, as I found Paypal to be WAY too risky to deal with in terms of fradulent chargebacks.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Yikes. You might put a copy of this on the DVC board also, this would be good heads up for the folks there too. Sorry to hear all this.

 

[lenshanem]

They don't care if you have proof of delivery or not, they protect the buyer not the seller.

It was the other way around for us. Hubby paid for item and never received goods.

Dan, the OP did post a link on the DVC board, too.

 

[ilovepcot]

There's a BB I read on eBay and folks there (both buyers and sellers) were telling some OUTRAGEOUS! things that happened to them when using Paypal. It scared me away and as a result there have been items I lost out on because the seller only accepted Paypal. Too bad.....not going to crawl down into that can of worms.

 

[jfulcer]

Ok, I'm sorry to rain on the parade but this system worked fine for us when we bid on an item but never received it. We filed with Paypal within the 30 days as was the requirement and received our refund within a week.

Of course, the seller was very obviously jerking a bunch of people around based on feedback so it was a cut and dried case, but it *did* work for us.

With the millions of transactions that go on there are going to be bad apples and Paypal is going to make mistakes. That's why I think I will never do a high value bid or sell an expensive item on ebay without registered funds. Of course that's all well and good for those that lose $10, but I feel for the OP. I too, would attempt to get a legal authority involved.