My first post: Thinking of joining the DVC, but...

Actually, JMF, it seems that what you are really asking us to do is give you fodder for why DVC ISN'T right for your family. It's true that the outlay of money is pretty heavy (depending on one's own finances) and that you pay maintenance fees each year which will continue to rise. If you're looking for absolutes as to why DVC is great, you won't find them here or via a DVC guide.

Most people who buy into DVC do so because they figure over the cost of program they will get their money's worth while in the meantime enjoy topnotch accomodations. You don't figure you'll do the former and say you don't care about the latter; thus, no amount of cajoling by any of us will sway you. If you don't think DVC is worth the money, then it isn't based on your particular needs. For those who make more frequent trips than you, who enjoy the accomodations as a way to unwind after long days in the parks, who want guaranteed resort rates for the life of the contract (actually, it's just under 50 years for SSR), then DVC is right up their alley.

Bottom line: Reading between the lines of all your responses, it sounds as if you don't think DVC is a good deal for you or your family, and who are we to think otherwise? If that's the case, I say definitely do not buy. Good luck with the decision. :earsboy:
 
It's also hard to really talk about plunking down that kind of money for something you haven't seen.

We toured on a lark in '96, with no intention of buying. We were staying on an introductory rate at Vero Beach when it first opened, and I knew if we took the tour we could see the Beach Cottages. One look at those, and the one bedroom accommodations, and DH and I were both hooked on the idea of staying like this for the next 40 some years, instead of plunking down $200 buck a night for a one room hotel room. We toured the Orlando properties the following week (they were selling OKW, BWV and Vero at the time) and that was enough to convince us.

It was also important to us to vacation with family, and to have some room to spread out if we had kids. We've actually ended up taking friends more than family, and have had an absolute blast with it. (And if our friends loved us before, they REALLY love us now. ;) )

Having DVC also helped during changing economic situations for us. We went from 2 income, no kids to 1 income, 1 kid. No way would we have spent the money on a luxury room with the way we were watching our money. But since we just have our dues now, it was no problem. We are still able to vacation like kings.
 
First of all, let me apologize if my first response sounded a little flamey - I didn't mean it that way. Sorry.
JMF said:
From what I gather, a room at the AKL or the Contemporary is about $200 per night right now, maybe slightly less using a travel agent selling packages. Are you asserting that in 15 years time (forgetting about adjusting for time value) that these rooms will cost $300 or $400 per night in today's dollars. I can't see that at all.
Oh sure! I've paid a lot more than that in NYC and San Francisco already! I don't know what all of the Disney prices are, but my daughter recently (March '05, during Spring Break) paid $194 per night, and that was with a Florida Resident Discount at a Moderate resort (PORFQ). $200 with a 3% annual increase for 15 years is about $350 (okay...$349.91).

Jim, I got this information right from the packet that DVC sent me. The DVC membership is a 30 (or 35, I don't recall) year lease at all DVC resorts except SSR where it is 4o years. After that time, all ownership rights revert back to Disney and you are left with NOTHING. That's an awfully big pill for me to swallow.

I have confirmed this with Disney "Guides" at DVC. This is nothing more than a pre-payment of vacations. It's not a "true time share".
Well, as a very famous man once said, "That depends on what the meaning of 'is' is!"

You are right that the interest does have an ending point. Just to be clear, SSR is January 2054 and all of the other resorts are January 2042, so it's 37 and 49 years depending on resort. In that sense, these interests are not like those which continue forever and ever, amen. But you DO have an actual real estate interest which you can bequeath, sell, whatever.
Think about it a second - do you get a pro-rated share of real estate taxes to deduct on your individual income tax for your property?
Yes, you do.
 
Arghhh! Having big troubles posting today! Sorry for the duplicate post...
 

Jim already answered, but to stress, Yes, you can deduct pro-rated real estate taxes. Also, if you finance, in most cases you can deduct the interest you pay, just like you would on any other real estate purchase.

Now, for the hotel prices, I think you're looking at it wrong. You could easily be correct, in relative dollars, that hotel prices haven't changed much. But they do change, and the fact is that in both real AND relative dollars, they will go up more than DVC.

Example: A hotel room today is $200 + tax, or about $223/night.

A Studio at SSR, mid season (Dream Season), weekdays is 12 points. At around $4.20/point dues, that comes out to about $50/night (this is annual dues only, not counting the initial cost).

Let's say inflation runs 3% a year for the next 20 years. In 20 years the hotel room goes from $200/night to $361/night. (in 2025 dollars). (or $402 including tax). The DVC room goes from $50/night to $90/night. (In 2025 dollars). They both increased the same percentages, but an increase on a smaller amount is a smaller increase in total dollars. Whereas the difference today would be $173/night, the difference in 20 years will be $312/night.

That's if hotels don't raise rates above inflation. DVC dues increases are limited as by law they cannot make a profit. Also it assumes room taxes don't increase, but they have in reality over the years. I remember when room taxes were in the 6% range. (shoot, I remember when sales tax was 1%). If hotel taxes go up to 15%, 20%, then you have absolute raises above and beyond inflation besides.

Think of it this way. If you make $100,000/year and get a 3% raise, you can buy a lot more things TODAY than another employee who makes $30,000/year and also got a 3% raise. DVC vs. Hotel rooms is similar, except just the opposite. In that case it pays to have the smaller increase because it's not money coming in, but money going out.
 
I just bought DVC for the subscription to Vacation Magic. :goodvibes
 
OneMoreTry said:
I just bought DVC for the subscription to Vacation Magic. :goodvibes
Now there's an MBA decision if I've ever seen one!
 
/
Heck, I bought into DVC just so I could cause trouble on the DIS DVC forums!

Seriously, JMF, I just disagree with some of your assumptions, but - rest assured - whether you buy into DVC or not won't ruin our days, nor will we feel you were a 'possible convert who was lost'. ;)

I'm looking right now for historical price information for DVC resorts. I also suspect that your "$200/room" estimate is correct re: current rack rates (and discounts are not a guarantee).

Personally, I'll be dead (or have my mind downloaded into a computer) in 2054, so the finite nature of DVC isn't a problem. Plus, check out some really old timeshares - not sure if I'd want to leave my DS (which, around here, can also be Disney Son) an interest in a run-down 80-year-old time-share.

Finally, you mention that you are a family of four. Assume (yep, it's bad, I know) that it's you, DW, and two children, exactly how long do you think they're going to be sharing a bed - and the four of you sharing a bathroom - in a std. hotel room / DVC studio? Planning on bringing your children's friends / spouses / children? Need even more beds.

As others have said, spend a while reading these forums. I'll grant you that it has a pro-Disney (if not pro-SSR) bias, but you will find that most, if not all, of the topics that interest or concern you will be addressed in a rational and thoughtful way - at least next week, when I'll be in WDW!

Be well!
 
We bought DVC 6 years ago and wish it was sooner. There is a tax deduction for the portion of real estate taxes paid. It is sort of like leasing the vacation but you do own it for the stated period of time and then it's back to Disney. This was a negative for us but we figured if our kids didn't get this when we died, well too bad, they are getting it NOW and thats more important. We purchased Disney vs. other time shares because if you go to Disney and stay on grounds, this is the best overall deal for WHAT YOU ARE GETTING. A hotel does go up in price but so does the value of money overall (your wages). The dues go up accordingly but the price you paid for DVC is part of the overall cost and it doesn't go up once you have purchased it! If you stay in a 1 BR or better, it beats a regular hotel room any day. Thats what convinced us to buy. We could stay in something better than we could normally. I love the wash machine, the kitchen and the king size bed. There is also no hotel yax to pay and also no extra charge per person. These can add to the hotel room costs. We like the flexibilty DVC offers. Our family will eventually be smaller but we can go to a studio if we want, go more or less often, go anytime of the year or bring guests (future grandkids). Most DVC members love Disney, thats why they buy into DVC. It's the best value for staying on property. You feel like king and queen. You also save a few bucks being able to wash some clothes while you are there and can eat simple (or ealborate) meals in the full kitchen. We are a family of 5 and are crowded in a hotel room. A 1BR or 2BR works fine, depending on the ages of the kids at the time we use the room. Being able to eat a simple breakfast in the room is a big bonus for 5 of us. If we ever add in a lunch, well, you get the idea. Hope this info helps. The size of your family, time of year you go and how much you love Disney will help determine if this is the choice for you.
 
[SIZE=+0]Disclaimer, I am not knocking AKL or WL... I love both of those resorts.
But, I have to point out that historically, of the Deluxe resorts at WDW, the room rates for WL and AKL have always been lower.

Unless you are considering purchasing at VWL, I think a more true comparison of room rates would be to use cash room rates for BC, YC, or BWI. If you look at even the discounted rates at those 3 Epcot resorts over the past 5 or 10 years or so, you'll see that rates have gone up a lot over the rate of inflation!

I'm just mentioning this because since you just came back from an AKL stay, I thought maybe you might be using AKL's rates to do a forecast or number crunching. I don't feel that's a fair comparison.

Also, being able to pass DVC on to your children is a great sentiment, but remember that your children may not even want to own DVC when they become adults. It's not just a gift that you pass on, but also the burden of annual dues.

Feel free to also take a look at the Dues History link in my sig. Good luck w/ your research/decision. DVC is not for everyone.[/SIZE]
 
There is also momentum and inertia when it comes to vacation planning. DMIL has a Fairfield timeshare and each year one adult child plus spouse and Grandkids are invited to adult child's choice of Timeshare. (3 out of 4 have chosen WDW).
That shifts the planning from "Are we going to go, when and where" to
"We are going, but when and where"
It helps make the vacation happen.
 
Not conclusive, but informative.

Current prices from allearsnet.com, 2000 prices from an archived copy of wdwig.com circa 2000.

Resort / view / season 2000 2005
Polynesian Garden Regular $304 $354
Contemporary Tower Value $280 $345
Boardwalk Inn Standard Regular $254 $334

OK, I'm bored (I really need to get to WDW....) But this should show that prices at WDW Deluxe Resorts have hardly remained constant.

Notes.
1. Yes, I know that there are rooms where the difference is less, and I suspect there are rooms where the difference is greater. Still, it costs more for a room than it did 5 years ago.
2. Remember that these prices cover the disastrous 9/11 attacks and likely reflect the savage beating that Disney - and the travel & tourism industry as a whole - took after that day.
3. Discounts. Yes, they are offering them now. This didn't always, and when they did, they weren't always what they are now. And as boomers and Xers age - and start to value safe, fun and comfortable over dangling their butts from a rope off a cliff - WDW will only grow in popularity.

Be well!
 
JMF said:
Essentially, the hotel cost about $2,000 and the rest was the park passes. *Given that the cost of the DVC does not include park passes, that means that an assumed $35,000 investment is allocated to the hotel alone. *That being said, if, over the next 35 years I go to WDW every other year, (our average) that's a comparable price of about $34,000. *When you add in the annual maintenance fees, I don't really see what you're saving.
Your mistake in your estimates is your initial investment.

To stay at VWL for 11 days in April(Sunday through weekend to following Thursday) costs 190 points in a studio. If you go every other year, you only have to buy 95 points. To get a resale of 100 points you need only spend approx. $8,000 for your resale DVC membership to VWL for a Studio.

Not sure where you are getting $35,000. It will only cost you $8,000 for 100 points, which you bank, then you have 200 points, you use for Studio for 11 days. So your cost is $8,000 plus dues of approx. $450 per year.
 
Aside from what the others have posted, the beneift of owning DVC to me is the ability to take my extended family and friends, something I would NEVER be able to do on cash.

In May my husband, two kids, and I are going for 5 nights in a studio at Wilderness Lodge, and then we are transferring to Beach Club where we will be joined by my extended family in a two bedroom and 2 studios for five nights.

I can't imagine what this would cost in cash! Thousands, and thousands of dollars. We are borrowing some of next year's points to do this, but it's worth it.

Owning DVC has made a trip like this possible for us, when it wouldn't be otherwise........
 
DS=Dear son

Awhile back you said there were 4 in your family so you only wanted to do studios. Bear in mind that those 2 children are going to grow and probably not want to share a hide-a-bed for too many years. That, and the fact that you will want a second bathroom by the time they are teens is enough reason to want bigger accommodations. The last poster asked if you had toured the resorts. I think perhaps you should rent points and STAY in a 2 bedroom unit at one of the resorts. Then you will understand the difference between DVC (a timeshare) and a hotel room at one of the other resorts.
 
Here's my experience (for whatever it's worth ... :)):
We toured BWV in May 2000 while we were staying at WL for a total of 8 nights. At that time I had received a postcard rate of $199/night, which ended up costing us close to 2 grand with tax.
Calculating our vacation habit (frequency, types of accommodation, length of visit), we found that a total of 150pts is enough. At that time I was very lucky to have bought at $68/pt.
We found that DVC would have paid itself back after our 7th or 8th trip.

The key is determining your vacation habit.
If you don't mind staying at the all stars and keeping track of the discount codes and pin numbers, then DVC might not be suitable for you.
However, if you like to stay in a Home away from home resorts and enjoy the amenities (which we do, and now we are absolutely spoiled..hehe) then DVC might just be the right move for you.

And also remember, staying at a HAFH resorts have the advantage of kitchenette or kitchen. It helps a little bit with lowering food cost... :). But that's another discussion altogether.

Good luck with your decisions!!!
 
Your concerns are the same ones that many of us had prior to buying in. I had the same ones. We bought into SSR in 2003 and will be taking our first trip as DVC members later this year.

Since we go to WDW once a year or every-other-year during off seasons, we started off with just 150 points. I can add on later if I need to.

A big reason I bought into this, though, is not just for WDW visits! (I hear the gasps of those reading this). :) I would live in WDW if I could, but my husband doesn't quite feel the same way--once a year is enough for him. He did, however, like the fact that we can use our point WHENEVER we want and for vacations ALL OVER THE GLOBE! We're not locked into one time-period or one location or one continent for that matter.

It's a personal decision, though, and has to fit your needs. Good luck and I hope that we'll be welcoming you home in some future thread.
 
Is the $35000 including financing etc? Just looked at one of my deeds and it says I own "0.3284% interest in unit 1H at SSR a leasehold condominium". Whatever the wording it is one of my Home away from home places. Since I will be 62 shortly don't expect to see the end of the "lease" but my children or grandchildren might still be interested. My OKW ownership runs out in 2042 so at 99 I might still be there. All that aside. My first purchase was made in 1997 for 220 points at OKW for $13800. There are contracts for my use year and number of points listed for over $16,000 now at TTS. I did not buy as a monetary investment and truly thought the value would go down each year as the time remaining decreased. I don't plan to sell unless there is a life situation that forces it but it is turning into the best investment I could have made. I have marvelous vacations in accomodations that can't be compared to moderates. It has been used by just my DH and me up to most of the family and occasionally the children's friends on any given trip making memories that have more value than anyone can say. The number of times we have used 2BR units and the 2 times in the GV (once over Christmas week with just 5 people-priceless) have more than paid for my OKW contract. If I had stayed at moderate resorts for all those trips and paid cash the money would be gone but instead I still have many years of great places to stay for just my dues cost per year.. I was fortunate in being able to buy without financing so my pay back period would be less than some. I stayed weekend nights at AKL over Christmas 2003 at a fantastic AP rate of approx $150 (including taxes) a night and thoroughly enjoyed it. Those 3 nights would have paid for most of my dues that year. The room wasn't anything special but the resort was fun. Haven't seen those rates again for a savannah view in holiday week but maybe they will be there again. I'd rather be in a studio at DVC any time. DVC isn't for everyone and you are wise to ask the questions- You will undoubtedly get more reasons you should consider it than the other way around and only you can do the pros and cons of what is best for your family. Oh yes - before we bought in 1997 I thought all time shares were rip-offs. Whatever you decide, may you have many happy vacations at Disney.
 
castleri said:
Is the $35000 including financing etc? Just looked at one of my deeds and it says I own "0.3284% interest in unit 1H at SSR a leasehold condominium". Whatever the wording it is one of my Home away from home places. Since I will be 62 shortly don't expect to see the end of the "lease" but my children or grandchildren might still be interested. My OKW ownership runs out in 2042 so at 99 I might still be there. All that aside. My first purchase was made in 1997 for 220 points at OKW for $13800. There are contracts for my use year and number of points listed for over $16,000 now at TTS. I did not buy as a monetary investment and truly thought the value would go down each year as the time remaining decreased. I don't plan to sell unless there is a life situation that forces it but it is turning into the best investment I could have made. I have marvelous vacations in accomodations that can't be compared to moderates. It has been used by just my DH and me up to most of the family and occasionally the children's friends on any given trip making memories that have more value than anyone can say. The number of times we have used 2BR units and the 2 times in the GV (once over Christmas week with just 5 people-priceless) have more than paid for my OKW contract. If I had stayed at moderate resorts for all those trips and paid cash the money would be gone but instead I still have many years of great places to stay for just my dues cost per year.. I was fortunate in being able to buy without financing so my pay back period would be less than some. I stayed weekend nights at AKL over Christmas 2003 at a fantastic AP rate of approx $150 (including taxes) a night and thoroughly enjoyed it. Those 3 nights would have paid for most of my dues that year. The room wasn't anything special but the resort was fun. Haven't seen those rates again for a savannah view in holiday week but maybe they will be there again. I'd rather be in a studio at DVC any time. DVC isn't for everyone and you are wise to ask the questions- You will undoubtedly get more reasons you should consider it than the other way around and only you can do the pros and cons of what is best for your family. Oh yes - before we bought in 1997 I thought all time shares were rip-offs. Whatever you decide, may you have many happy vacations at Disney.
I could have written the above. It mirrors our experience.
 
Wow Wow Wow!!

I am overwhelmed, really at the great replies here, from everyone. I will keep reading this thread and this board as I think about this decision. A few specific comments:

JimMIA - I'm a veteran when it comes to bulletin boards and a moderator at another. I've got thick skin, so it takes more than what you wrote for me to consider it a flame. No worries there!

To the poster from Virginia that mentioned "Reading between the lines"...you are somewhat correct. I am a skeptic. This decision is really not based on "will we go". We will likely go to WDW every 2 or 3 years regardless of whether we buy or not. I'm just seeing if it makes sense for me.

Some further background on us: Yes, we like to stay on property and have always done so. Past stays have been at : Contemp. - AKL - Caribbean Beach, Port Orleans RS and the Swan.

Eating/Kitchenette Feature: Maybe if I had this, we'd use it. But we enjoy eating at the WDW restaurants and part of our vacation mentality is not cooking or cleaning up, so I don't consider "food cost", etc - in this decision at all. I am working under the assumption that we'll continue to eat as we do when we go.

OK, I got some more homework to do and will surely pick brains some more. I'll let you folks know (if you care) :) and thanks again.

J
 















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