My Deal Fell Apart

[dbs1228]

Seller is pretty shady IMO they got paper work telling them what they would net once contract was sold, they knew going into it that they would owe at the end. I am sure this happens quite often so I am not sure why it is the broker fault. Some people have to sell and agree to pay balance of loan just to get rid of the contract. Why a seller would proceed this far tells me they thought buyer would pay up or financing would forgive the difference. Whatever the case it stinks to go this far and have it backfire!

 

[bumbershoot]

Oh I'm so sorry, I can't imagine how bad this must feel.

For sellers to lose a sale for what comes to a percentage of the sale...just makes no sense to me.

Frustrating I know but you can likely get the same thing cheaper now and all your giving up is the right to overpay for cash type exchanges. It's likely a blessing in disguise. If you were truly looking at those other exchanges, simply buy less points to do what you need with DVC.

Probably true....

 

[JimMIA]

Jim where you there?

I'm in Miami.

Who is to say that the seller is not an idiot and just flat lied about what they owed?

I didn't say they weren't idiots -- they could well be. Who's to say they are? I don't know them.

I also don't know which broker handled this transaction (although, from the pattern, I have a hunch ).

However, as part of my agreement to sell a DVC contract through The Timeshare Store, I was required to sign and return a document called a Net Agreement. That agreement showed exactly what my proceeds would be if my contract sold, and it was required before TTS would even list my contract.

If the broker involved didn't use something like that, they are sloppy, IMHO. If the broker did use something like that, the seller obviously knew what their proceeds would be.

Why assume Disney held the deed? There are other finance companies on this planet.

I don't believe I mentioned anything about financing.

 

[rock_doctor]

Just move on. Find another contract and go for it. We just finished our resale purchase and it went off without a hitch. But that is because we actually called the sellers and we discussed the purchase. So we knew what was owed to Disney and made sure the cost was going to be covered.

In your case they were so upside down they knew they were either going to brake even or loose it to foreclosure. So they did not care either way. Missing the 3/20 deadline likely will not affect you so i would not worry about it. Go back to your agent and find another contract but i would cut a deal on your fees to them... If you are dealing with the company JimMIA thinks you are... you must call them weekly and do not leave a message. Wait on the line. We used them and the purchase went great and took less then 60 days from start to finish but once again we were *very* proactive. Good luck, don't lose faith just keep going. The short term pain will eventually give way to long term gain.

 

[shonadamson]

Well I am now looking at this in a different way. I do not blame the company I am going through. I talked to them today and they told me that the owner would have broken even on the deal but they just stopped paying on the loan after they signed the paperwork. With penalties it started to add up. Oh well we are seeing what is out there now. You are right we were never going to use the points for cruises or ABD so that is not the problem. I am a little concerned that Disney will use this date for other means, but we will see. Thanks to everyone and I will update you on how it is going.

 

[Kidanifan08]

I am a little concerned that Disney will use this date for other means, but we will see.

Sorry to hear about your deal not working out. As others have said, it may be a good thing, since you may be able to get a better deal now that the rush is over.

I think your statement above is probably a concern of many who are picking up resales in the post-3/20 era. We are currently pending ROFR on a post-3/20 contract for an additional small contract. I just don't think they can use that date for future exclusions without stating it clearly in a semi-contractual form. The announcement on the member website specifically states:

"Under the new policy, Members who purchase from anyone other than Disney Vacation Development, Inc., on or after March 21, 2011, will not be eligible to use those Vacation Points to make reservations within the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection."

There is no mention in that announcement that 3/21 will have any bearing on future changes to perks or other contractual obligations. I would have to believe that with any future exclusions for resale contracts, they would have to give fair warning, as they did this time, and that any future exclusions would have a different start date and all contracts purchased as resales up to that point would be grandfathered.

I don't know. . . maybe wishful thinking.

 

[rock_doctor]

When they did away with free valet parking, it was for all owners. When they devalued the points they made it for points purchased after a certain date. Imho if it is small change it will apply to all but if it is something big it will be for all those who bought after a certain date. And i suspect it will be a date that is close to the announcement of the change, not likely retro active to the 3/20 date. Can they do this? Yea they can but will they??? Unlikely, because at the end of the day Disney is still a company that relies on "Feel Good Moments" and to do something serious and make it retro to existing owners would be a public relations nightmare. Existing owners would sue just to see what happens. But make it after a certain date in the future, those who haven't purchased can't sue because they don't own it yet and knew of the change before they closed... Those who already own won't care as it will not affect them...

There is a reason they did what they did. Some think it was to push more people into direct sales. I don't think so. So many people were buying super cheap resale points (some locations sell for less then $50 a point) and then using those points only for cruises or foreign travel. I don't think Disney realized they would be paying out so much money to foreign agencies or the cruise lines and they were trying to stem the flow of cash. You can't be worried about the future because they will do what they want to secure their bottom line and in reality they could just remove the pre-3/30 benefits from all owners.

By stopping most of the transfer abilities of all post-3/30 resale, over time, enough contracts will change hands to make the money saved worth the trouble and eventually most if not all of the contracts will be on their second owners. Effectively ending the cash bleed they were experiencing...

 

[DebbieB]

My opinion is part of the reason they did it was because they are having difficulty renting rooms with points people use for tradeouts. They are looking to have less tradeouts. Some of the SSR & OKW rooms go to free upgrades from values and moderates when those resorts sellout so DVC loses on those points. Otherwise they go empty.

 

[lark]

Jim where you there? Who is to say that the seller is not an idiot and just flat lied about what they owed? Why assume Disney held the deed? There are other finance companies on this planet.

How would this be possible? The only way the seller would owe the money at closing is if the finance company held a lien -- which every good finance company would have.

I just don't understand how it got that far -- if there was a lien, it was publicly recorded. Isn't it the broker's or the escrow company's job to get all the ducks in line for closing and to search the public record to prepare a statement of costs at closing? There's no way the sellers should have been surprised.

I don't really know if we have all the information. I don't even know if there was a broker involved here. But there's no way a deal should get to the point where the entire deal depends on the seller bringing a check to the closing. Maybe that's traditionally how it works, but it shouldn't. The money should go into escrow well before the end stages of the deal. You pay a broker 10 to 15 percent an escrow company hundreds of dollars for a reason. This should never never happen.

Now, maybe the broker gave the buyer clear notice in March that the seller was upside down, and that the deal would be contingent on the seller delivering a check at closing. If that happened, and the buyer decided to take the risk that sellers were honorable people, it's a different story.

 

[EWL]

So sorry to hear your news. Sending pixie dust!

 

[MFMont]

How would this be possible? The only way the seller would owe the money at closing is if the finance company held a lien -- which every good finance company would have.

I just don't understand how it got that far -- if there was a lien, it was publicly recorded. Isn't it the broker's or the escrow company's job to get all the ducks in line for closing and to search the public record to prepare a statement of costs at closing? There's no way the sellers should have been surprised.

I don't really know if we have all the information. I don't even know if there was a broker involved here. But there's no way a deal should get to the point where the entire deal depends on the seller bringing a check to the closing. Maybe that's traditionally how it works, but it shouldn't. The money should go into escrow well before the end stages of the deal. You pay a broker 10 to 15 percent an escrow company hundreds of dollars for a reason. This should never never happen.

Now, maybe the broker gave the buyer clear notice in March that the seller was upside down, and that the deal would be contingent on the seller delivering a check at closing. If that happened, and the buyer decided to take the risk that sellers were honorable people, it's a different story.

The OP addressed this in his last post. The seller stopped paying their loan after they listed. How would " the other broker" know this. This is why I took exception to JimA's statement. The "other broker" gets a bunch of bad press and in many cases like this, it is because of an idiot owner. It would seem to me that with DVC great sales pitch and the home field advantage they have, they seem to attract a lot of people who get in way over their heads. Those same buyers then contact DVC and say they can't afford DVC. DVC sends them on to "the other broker". Whalah "the other broker" deals with a lower end clientele. That lower end clintele does something stupid. The well informed buyer that came on a site like this and did their homework and found the filene's basement of resellers blames the "the other broker". Blame is deserved , but just gets heaped on the wrong blamie.

 

[MFMont]

BTW,

I know of what I speak because I am in the midst of dealing with "the other broker" and I am having issues with the sellers turtle like behavior. However when I wondered into filene's basement and found the "vera wang" dress for 52 bucks (actually BWV loaded for 52 bucks) I was informed enough to realize that I would have to go through some crap to get it. That crap will equtate to about 6 weeks more than normal wait time. Is that "the other brokers " fault? NO!

Could I come on here and complain about it and have 80% of you on my side saying it is "the other brokers" fault? HELL YES.

I gathered my facts and know the blamie.

Mike

 

[shonadamson]

Now, maybe the broker gave the buyer clear notice in March that the seller was upside down, and that the deal would be contingent on the seller delivering a check at closing. If that happened, and the buyer decided to take the risk that sellers were honorable people, it's a different story.

That is not what happened. I didn't know they were upside down in the deal.

 

[MFMont]

That is not what happened. I didn't know they were upside down in the deal.

And neither did the broker, correct? Per your post above the seller just decided to stop paying their loan after listing.

 

[shonadamson]

And neither did the broker, correct? Per your post above the seller just decided to stop paying their loan after listing.

That is correct. I don't blame them at all. They have been extremely helpful through the ordeal.

How about this for a complete 180. I just got an offer accepted for SSR for $50 pp on a totally loaded contract. The other one was not. So we decided to wade back in the pool again. I also asked them to check about whether they had a loan on it or not. Thank you everyone.

 

[dbs1228]

BTW,


Could I come on here and complain about it and have 80% of you on my side saying it is "the other brokers" fault? HELL YES.

I gathered my facts and know the blamie.

Mike

Okay I have been following this thread and have to say the original OP never ONCE blamed the broker!!!! I did not feel like the post was complaining just making a statement of what happened and that they were sad!!!!!!!!!!!

OP - Congrats on the new contract good luck, contract sounds good! Hope it is smooth sailing from here on in!!!!

 

[MFMont]

That is correct. I don't blame them at all. They have been extremely helpful through the ordeal.

How about this for a complete 180. I just got an offer accepted for SSR for $50 pp on a totally loaded contract. The other one was not. So we decided to wade back in the pool again. I also asked them to check about whether they had a loan on it or not. Thank you everyone.

Yes. I have found the same in my case, that is why I am in the odd position of defending them.

Well congrats. I hope all goes well for you on this one, and I hope for your sake it is a US contract ;-)

 

[lark]

The OP addressed this in his last post. The seller stopped paying their loan after they listed. How would " the other broker" know this. This is why I took exception to JimA's statement. The "other broker" gets a bunch of bad press and in many cases like this, it is because of an idiot owner. It would seem to me that with DVC great sales pitch and the home field advantage they have, they seem to attract a lot of people who get in way over their heads. Those same buyers then contact DVC and say they can't afford DVC. DVC sends them on to "the other broker". Whalah "the other broker" deals with a lower end clientele. That lower end clintele does something stupid. The well informed buyer that came on a site like this and did their homework and found the filene's basement of resellers blames the "the other broker". Blame is deserved , but just gets heaped on the wrong blamie.

I don't really understand what all this means or what the code is about "the other broker," or whatever. It seems this post has tapped into some rivalry between brokers that is way over my head.

I guess I still don't understand the mechanics of it all. Even if the seller stops paying the loan, isn't some kind of check done by the broker or the escrow company when the buyer makes an offer so that a settlement statement can be made? I just don't understand how a contract can be entered into seven weeks ago and nobody knows there's an issue until now.

I guess it's moot since OP sounds happy.

 

[MFMont]

Okay I have been following this thread and have to say the original OP never ONCE blamed the broker!!!! I did not feel like the post was complaining just making a statement of what happened and that they were sad!!!!!!!!!!!

OP - Congrats on the new contract good luck, contract sounds good! Hope it is smooth sailing from here on in!!!!

If you had read the whole thread you would have realized that I was taking a defensive position against what JimA had to say. I really also wasn't trying to insight trouble, but just debate JimA grinding an axe. I have no problem with JimA, I just don't agree with him on his points here.

I think my discussion with the OP was quite civil actually and just wanted the OP to clarify some points from earlier in the thread.

 

[mjc2003]

Congrats to the OP for dusting themselves off, wading back into the pool and making another offer. And, as it turns out, you probably got a better deal. Somebody posted at the beginning of this thread, everything happens for a reason.

Good luck, after what you've been through we are rooting for you to have smooth sailing and a successful, problem free purchase.