My college dd has decided to drop out and go to culinary school!

[eliza61]

I am a firm believer in letting other parents make their own decisions. But I also believe that all decisions have consequences. Many unintended. Putting 200K up for your kid's college education would make it hard for many to remain unbiased. That's just the way it is.

In our case, we could afford to pay for our kids' educations but we won't be because we feel our children will be more invested in their education if they are responsible for paying for it (been there, done that). They will be adults. They will be making decisions for themselves and they need to know that they will be responsible for what they decide. Not me. And not my pocketbook. I will certainly give my input when it's asked for but I will not tell them what I think they should do. I figure I've already made my choices...... and they are not me. I also know that they have the rest of their lives to figure things out, there's no rush to do it perfect the first time (as if there were such a thing). I'm sure they'll make mistakes along the way but they'll learn from them and grow. Meaning that they really won't be mistakes. Just part of the process

".

This is probably the best advice.
I was and still am the exact opposite.

My parents paid for my college and it definitely made me take studying seriously. I knew without a doubt that my parents (especially my stepmom/mom) would have taken their size 10 shoes and kick me square in my you know where had I even thought about fooling around in school. now that was me.

I was extremely conscious of the fact that I was lucky to go to an out of state college without an loans and did not have to work except during the summers. My parents had expectations from me and all heck would have broken out had I goofed around and they let me know what those expectations where. But let me also say I grew up in a time when parents were not trying to be kids "friends". My parents were not scared that I would not "talk" to them. They couldn't give a rats pootie whether or not I "talked" to them or not. lol.

I too pay my sons tuition. I have one son who is an Aspergers kid & I see no reason to make his life harder by requiring him to get a job or take out loans because I think it will make them an "Adult". I wish that was some magic answer to make people act like adults.

anyhoo, I do know that there is no magic formula. Like I said previously there are a whole lot of MBA graduates, engineers and professionals just as unemployed as any one else. Maybe the old saying "it's not what you know" but "who you know" is really true.

 

[NotUrsula]

I don't see the dropping out as all that big a deal, though what I would encourage is transferring to a local community college rather than leaving higher ed altogether.

Most people these days who successfully parlay an interest in things culinary into a good living do NOT have culinary degrees -- they have business degrees. The only real way to make money in the restaurant business is to own your own store, and for that a business degree is a LOT more important than a culinary degree.

So, what I would suggest (not having read the whole thread) is looking for a f/t kitchen job. If she can find one that has a schedule that allows her to enroll in CC to cover her basic prerequisites, then that would be optimal, but I think that kitchen experience is the acid test, and there is no reason to pay tuition to get it.

If it does turn out that she loves it, then avoid degree programs at private "culinary institutes" at all costs. CC works just as well for learning to cook. Once she has a f/t job with that CC degree, then she can take short courses at the culinary schools to learn specific techniques.

PS: Pizza places are not the same as full-service kitchens, for the most part. Making pizza is very rote, and there is no art to plating it. She needs to work in a restaurant with a full-service menu that changes often in order to see people really work a line under pressure. Hotel kitchens tend to be good for this, and the upside is that they are always open on holidays, which will let her find out if that will be an issue for her.

 

[pacrosby]

This is probably the best advice.
I was and still am the exact opposite.

My parents paid for my college and it definitely made me take studying seriously. I knew without a doubt that my parents (especially my stepmom/mom) would have taken their size 10 shoes and kick me square in my you know where had I even thought about fooling around in school. now that was me.

I was extremely conscious of the fact that I was lucky to go to an out of state college without an loans and did not have to work except during the summers. My parents had expectations from me and all heck would have broken out had I goofed around and they let me know what those expectations where. But let me also say I grew up in a time when parents were not trying to be kids "friends". My parents were not scared that I would not "talk" to them. They couldn't give a rats pootie whether or not I "talked" to them or not. lol.

My father definately insisted that I take studying seriously as well. Of course, he was 90 minutes away from campus. He would've killed me if he knew what was going on but he didn't. I could ace a test even after only a week of studying (strange, photographic memory) so my GPA was always excellent. But that didn't mean I was getting anything out of it......I spent most of my time socializing and partying. Right after my Junior year my father held tuition over my head because he didn't like the boy I was dating. I think his exact words were "I'm not paying for you to go back up to that college to be with THAT boy". My response? "Fine, I don't need YOUR money!". And the next week I reduced my load to part-time, got myself an apartment (with lots of roommates), got two waitressing jobs and ended up changing my major. Best thing that ever happened to me. Talk about growing up and getting your priorities straight! I ended up with almost a 4.0 when I graduated with a BS in Speech/Language Pathology 3 yrs later.....and this time I really did know my stuff. Then went on to get my Masters Degree over the next two years (lived at home...Dad and I made up when I broke up with the boyfriend ). Paid for it all myself and don't have a single regret. I honestly think it was one of the best learning experiences I could ever have had.

Kids are all different, you're right, and many take it seriously from the start. But a great many flounder. I think it's just a different perspective on what's important and how best to achieve it. I just firmly believe that having a stake in the game is incredibly motivating for a young person...when it's so hard to know who you are, let alone who you want to be.

Fwiw I will add that our decision to not pay for college doesn't make us cheap or selfish. And it doesn't mean we won't ever help our kids achieve their dreams. If one of my kids was to work hard, stay focused, and get the education they needed, on their dime, and then wanted to start their own business? Well, we would certainly help with the start-up costs. If another did the same and then wanted to move to another city for an opportunity but didn't have the money to move or get themselves situated? We would provide what they needed to get them set up. It's not about trying to "make" them be an adult. It's that they 'are' an adult. There's nothing wrong with asking them to act like one and take responsibility for their own education.

Lastly...I'm not sure anyone is really trying to "tell" anyone what they should or shouldn't do. Just offering our own opinions that are largely based on what we would do, along with our reasons why we would do what we do. Last I heard, that's what a message board was all about

 

[disney314]

I don't see the dropping out as all that big a deal, though what I would encourage is transferring to a local community college rather than leaving higher ed altogether.

Giving up a scholarship is kind of a big deal though, because she probably can't get it back once she gives it up. And I don't know how the school handles it, but since her sport is a spring sport and she took the scholarship and went in the fall on the scholarship, I would guess there would have to be a repayment of the money used to pay for fall with the scholarship. So it could be a very costly decision.

I agree community college is a good place to go for some courses and to figure things out. But I would first want to know exactly what this decision to drop out was going to cost.

OP, I wish you luck in this situation. I hope it all works out.

 

[disykat]

My father definately insisted that I take studying seriously as well. Of course, he was 90 minutes away from campus. He would've killed me if he knew what was going on but he didn't. I could ace a test even after only a week of studying (strange, photographic memory) so my GPA was always excellent. But that didn't mean I was getting anything out of it......I spent most of my time socializing and partying. Right after my Junior year my father held tuition over my head because he didn't like the boy I was dating. I think his exact words were "I'm not paying for you to go back up to that college to be with THAT boy". My response? "Fine, I don't need YOUR money!". And the next week I reduced my load to part-time, got myself an apartment (with lots of roommates), got two waitressing jobs and ended up changing my major. Best thing that ever happened to me. Talk about growing up and getting your priorities straight! I ended up with almost a 4.0 when I graduated with a BS in Speech/Language Pathology 3 yrs later.....and this time I really did know my stuff. Then went on to get my Masters Degree over the next two years (lived at home...Dad and I made up when I broke up with the boyfriend ). Paid for it all myself and don't have a single regret. I honestly think it was one of the best learning experiences I could ever have had.

Kids are all different, you're right, and many take it seriously from the start. But a great many flounder. I think it's just a different perspective on what's important and how best to achieve it. I just firmly believe that having a stake in the game is incredibly motivating for a young person...when it's so hard to know who you are, let alone who you want to be.

Fwiw I will add that our decision to not pay for college doesn't make us cheap or selfish. And it doesn't mean we won't ever help our kids achieve their dreams. If one of my kids was to work hard, stay focused, and get the education they needed, on their dime, and then wanted to start their own business? Well, we would certainly help with the start-up costs. If another did the same and then wanted to move to another city for an opportunity but didn't have the money to move or get themselves situated? We would provide what they needed to get them set up. It's not about trying to "make" them be an adult. It's that they 'are' an adult. There's nothing wrong with asking them to act like one and take responsibility for their own education.

Lastly...I'm not sure anyone is really trying to "tell" anyone what they should or shouldn't do. Just offering our own opinions that are largely based on what we would do, along with our reasons why we would do what we do. Last I heard, that's what a message board was all about

I think that one of the reasons it was such a good experience for you is that you had three years of already paid for school to build on when you went off on your own. That three years it took you to do your senior year could have been 12 years to do all four years at the same pace. I was on my own financially by senior year as well, but the only way I was able to do so was because my parents had paid for my earlier years.

I agree, kids need to gain financial independence at some point. However, every parent I know that has said they won't contribute to their kid's college expenses has changed their minds when the reality of the amount of money it costs now hits.

 

[NHdisneylover]

OP--did your daughter call the university to inquire about the refund yesterday? What did she find out?

 

[eliza61]

I think that one of the reasons it was such a good experience for you is that you had three years of already paid for school to build on when you went off on your own. That three years it took you to do your senior year could have been 12 years to do all four years at the same pace. I was on my own financially by senior year as well, but the only way I was able to do so was because my parents had paid for my earlier years.

I agree, kids need to gain financial independence at some point. However, every parent I know that has said they won't contribute to their kid's college expenses has changed their minds when the reality of the amount of money it costs now hits.

Add to that even if a kid has a "stake in the game" as many people call it, if they are going to goof off they are going to goof off.

Many kids especially young adults have a delusional view of time and the future. That's why so many young adults don't start saving for retirement, don't make healthy purchasing decisions etc etc. What's the saying "Youth is wasted on the young".
heck, if they had a clear idea of reality many would not take tens of thousands of dollars in loans out in the first place. LOL. Many kids fully believe that when they come out of college even in todays environment, they will get a job, move out of the parents house, have a great car.

Having a stake in the game is a pretty vague concept for many youngsters. Yes I know here on the dis all our kids have their futures mapped outed and are exceptionally mature, but I'm talking the real world not Dis Oz.

If a great many kids flounder, it is not because their parents hoofed the bills nor does having loans waiting for you at the end of the day make you any more prone to success.

Interestingly enough if that actually worked than all the restauranters who took out small business loans to start their establishments would not have any problem. Their businesses would take off because they had a "stake in the game" and restaurants generally have a fail rate of 30-35% within 5 years. I'm sure they felt they worked just as hard.

 

[Patience]

I have a daughter who is a freshman in college.

OP, I would encourage your daughter to finish her freshman year for several reasons. First, since she has an athletic scholarship, she may have to repay it if she chooses not to play her sport this spring. Second, being on a sports team is a great way for students to really connect with their school and campus life. My daughter cheers for her university and having teammates with whom she had a lot in common right from the beginning if school really helped her make a smooth transition to college. Finally, finishing the year will give her time to consider all of her options and to research culinary school to decide if it's really right for her.

Regarding those who believe that students need to have a financial "stake" in their college educations, I firmly believe that my daughter works harder at school because she knows that her daddy and I have saved,and in some cases sacrificed, a few things we would have otherwise done in order to provide her with an education. Our daughter is very sociable and outgoing and I know she has fun at school. I also know she studies a lot while also juggling 3 morning cheer workouts per week, 4 afternoon practices, traveling and games on the weekends, etc. She finished her first semester with a 3.868.

Kids are all different and it's hard to generalize. College is expensive and not for everyone but I see no good coming out of a student graduating buried with debt just because the parents feel they will not value their education unless the student has a financial "stake" in the education. Obviously, even the kids whose parents pay for college can and do value it. If you can't afford to help with college, that's different. Choosing not to assist when you can or could is a different story but is certainly no guarantee that your child will study hard and not party.

 

[LisaR]

My father definately insisted that I take studying seriously as well. Of course, he was 90 minutes away from campus. He would've killed me if he knew what was going on but he didn't. I could ace a test even after only a week of studying (strange, photographic memory) so my GPA was always excellent. But that didn't mean I was getting anything out of it......I spent most of my time socializing and partying. Right after my Junior year my father held tuition over my head because he didn't like the boy I was dating. I think his exact words were "I'm not paying for you to go back up to that college to be with THAT boy". My response? "Fine, I don't need YOUR money!". And the next week I reduced my load to part-time, got myself an apartment (with lots of roommates), got two waitressing jobs and ended up changing my major. Best thing that ever happened to me. Talk about growing up and getting your priorities straight! I ended up with almost a 4.0 when I graduated with a BS in Speech/Language Pathology 3 yrs later.....and this time I really did know my stuff. Then went on to get my Masters Degree over the next two years (lived at home...Dad and I made up when I broke up with the boyfriend ). Paid for it all myself and don't have a single regret. I honestly think it was one of the best learning experiences I could ever have had.

Kids are all different, you're right, and many take it seriously from the start. But a great many flounder. I think it's just a different perspective on what's important and how best to achieve it. I just firmly believe that having a stake in the game is incredibly motivating for a young person...when it's so hard to know who you are, let alone who you want to be.

Fwiw I will add that our decision to not pay for college doesn't make us cheap or selfish. And it doesn't mean we won't ever help our kids achieve their dreams. If one of my kids was to work hard, stay focused, and get the education they needed, on their dime, and then wanted to start their own business? Well, we would certainly help with the start-up costs. If another did the same and then wanted to move to another city for an opportunity but didn't have the money to move or get themselves situated? We would provide what they needed to get them set up. It's not about trying to "make" them be an adult. It's that they 'are' an adult. There's nothing wrong with asking them to act like one and take responsibility for their own education.

Lastly...I'm not sure anyone is really trying to "tell" anyone what they should or shouldn't do. Just offering our own opinions that are largely based on what we would do, along with our reasons why we would do what we do. Last I heard, that's what a message board was all about

So let me see if I understand this:
1. Your parents fully funded three years of college for you which would likely put you at the age of 21.

2. Your dad was controlling, you had enough of his antics, and became financially independent at 21 which was the best thing that ever happened to you.

3. You made up with your dad, moved back home while paying for your MA, but you were now back to being financially dependent on your dad for things like a roof over your head, utility bills, food, laundry usage, toilet paper, etc. At this point, you would have been 24/25 y/o.

4. Your conclusion, based on your experience, is that you will not pay for college for your kids because you want them to have skin in the game and learn like you did, correct?

You don't see the difference? You weren't financially independent until you were 21 y/o. There is a HUGE difference between 18 and 21. Most 18 y/o can not completely fund college. And as you saw, funding it yourself at the age of 21 meant it took you three years to complete one year of college. Nothing wrong with that, but you had a solid three years of college under your belt. If your kids need to fund 100% of college from the age of 18 on, based on your experience, it will take them 12 years to get an undergraduate degree! In addition, you didn't remain financially independent. You moved back home because you made up with your dad.

To make the decision that you won't pay for any of their schooling is short sighted in my opinion. As you state, every kid is different. I do believe kids need to have some skin in the game, but there is a wide birth between some skin in the game (paying for books & entertainment) and making them pay for tuition, books, room, board, entertainment, etc the minute the calendar states that they are an adult.

I don't think any parent should feel an obligation to pay for college for their kids. Everyone is entitled to raise their kids how they see fit. However, I never made across the board decisions on what I would or wouldn't do for my kids based on my life growing up. My kids are very different and have required different types of parenting throughout their lives. Their lives are nothing like my life was and it isn't my goal to make them live the way I lived or learn life lessons the way I learned them.

 

[pacrosby]

So let me see if I understand this:
1. Your parents fully funded three years of college for you which would likely put you at the age of 21.

2. Your dad was controlling, you had enough of his antics, and became financially independent at 21 which was the best thing that ever happened to you.

3. You made up with your dad, moved back home while paying for your MA, but you were now back to being financially dependent on your dad for things like a roof over your head, utility bills, food, laundry usage, toilet paper, etc. At this point, you would have been 24/25 y/o.

4. Your conclusion, based on your experience, is that you will not pay for college for your kids because you want them to have skin in the game and learn like you did, correct?

You don't see the difference? You weren't financially independent until you were 21 y/o. There is a HUGE difference between 18 and 21. Most 18 y/o can not completely fund college. And as you saw, funding it yourself at the age of 21 meant it took you three years to complete one year of college. Nothing wrong with that, but you had a solid three years of college under your belt. If your kids need to fund 100% of college from the age of 18 on, based on your experience, it will take them 12 years to get an undergraduate degree! In addition, you didn't remain financially independent. You moved back home because you made up with your dad.

To make the decision that you won't pay for any of their schooling is short sighted in my opinion. As you state, every kid is different. I do believe kids need to have some skin in the game, but there is a wide birth between some skin in the game (paying for books & entertainment) and making them pay for tuition, books, room, board, entertainment, etc the minute the calendar states that they are an adult.

I don't think any parent should feel an obligation to pay for college for their kids. Everyone is entitled to raise their kids how they see fit. However, I never made across the board decisions on what I would or wouldn't do for my kids based on my life growing up. My kids are very different and have required different types of parenting throughout their lives. Their lives are nothing like my life was and it isn't my goal to make them live the way I lived or learn life lessons the way I learned them.

LOL You're way too invested in this conversation. And assuming a lot of facts not in evidence (as I like to say). You're free to what you like and I will do the same, thanx. I was simply detailing my own personal experience in response to the personal experience of another poster........please follow the bouncing ball. Seems to me that you're reading way too much into some of my words on the one hand...and apparently not reading others at all on the other. I'm not telling anyone what to do...I'm simply offering up what I will do and why. YMMV

 

[pacrosby]

I think that one of the reasons it was such a good experience for you is that you had three years of already paid for school to build on when you went off on your own. That three years it took you to do your senior year could have been 12 years to do all four years at the same pace. I was on my own financially by senior year as well, but the only way I was able to do so was because my parents had paid for my earlier years.

I agree, kids need to gain financial independence at some point. However, every parent I know that has said they won't contribute to their kid's college expenses has changed their minds when the reality of the amount of money it costs now hits.

I hear you, but the difference may be that we are also of the opinion that college does not have to be 4 yrs at a residential school immediately post high school. To me college is about getting an education, period. Not about learning to grow up, learning to live in a dorm, learning about themselves etc. IMO it is this and this notion that little Johnny has to get into to the MOST prestigious university he can, regardless if it will really matter in the long run, is the very thing that gets many in trouble; makes them spend more money than is necessary in a way that it doesn't have to be spent. I prefer to think outside the box and my kids are learning to do the same. I have no doubt that we will follow through on our plans. I'm not like "everyone else"...never really have been. It's very freeing, trust me

 

[LSmith]

I hear you, but the difference may be that we are also of the opinion that college does not have to be 4 yrs at a residential school immediately post high school. To me college is about getting an education, period. Not about learning to grow up, learning to live in a dorm, learning about themselves etc. IMO it is this and this notion that little Johnny has to get into to the MOST prestigious university he can, regardless if it will really matter in the long run, is the very thing that gets many in trouble; makes them spend more money than is necessary in a way that it doesn't have to be spent. I prefer to think outside the box and my kids are learning to do the same. I have no doubt that we will follow through on our plans. I'm not like "everyone else"...never really have been. It's very freeing, trust me

I respect people who can think for themselves and don't follow the herd. It is freeing. Been doing it all my life.

Majority may rule but majority isn't always right.

 

[disykat]

I hear you, but the difference may be that we are also of the opinion that college does not have to be 4 yrs at a residential school immediately post high school. To me college is about getting an education, period. Not about learning to grow up, learning to live in a dorm, learning about themselves etc. IMO it is this and this notion that little Johnny has to get into to the MOST prestigious university he can, regardless if it will really matter in the long run, is the very thing that gets many in trouble; makes them spend more money than is necessary in a way that it doesn't have to be spent. I prefer to think outside the box and my kids are learning to do the same. I have no doubt that we will follow through on our plans. I'm not like "everyone else"...never really have been. It's very freeing, trust me

I find that making decisions as they come, based on specific circumstances, rather than having set premade plans to follow through on to be even more freeing for both me AND my kids!

 

[disney314]

OP, just wondering how things worked out? Did they allow her to leave college without paying back the scholarship money for not play the sport in the spring? I was really curious how that would work. I hope all is well.

 

[kaligal]

Most of the people who do not provide continuing education for their children say it is for the kids' own good.

When Kenny Loggins left his wife and kids, he wrote that song saying, "I did it for you..."

It is very rare that anyone says, "I did it for me."

"I wasn't happy being married and having kids. The responsibility is annoying and I want the thrill of being single again. I only want to think about myself and my own pleasure."

"We can't afford our children's educations. We spent the money on cars, clothes and vacations. If the kids can't find someone else to pay for it, that's too bad for them."

You have a better chance of hearing someone tell their boss, "I just don't feel like coming in and doing the work or listening to you" instead of saying they are ill.

 

[declansdad]

Most of the people who do not provide continuing education for their children say it is for the kids' own good.

When Kenny Loggins left his wife and kids, he wrote that song saying, "I did it for you..."

It is very rare that anyone says, "I did it for me."

"I wasn't happy being married and having kids. The responsibility is annoying and I want the thrill of being single again. I only want to think about myself and my own pleasure."

"We can't afford our children's educations. We spent the money on cars, clothes and vacations. If the kids can't find someone else to pay for it, that's too bad for them."

You have a better chance of hearing someone tell their boss, "I just don't feel like coming in and doing the work or listening to you" instead of saying they are ill.

Come again.

 

[disykat]

Come again.

I think she's saying she feels like "I did it for their own good" can be a cop-out.