Mulan Is Back

[ClarabelleCowFan]

But wouldn't it be good to have a neutral party looking out for the kids' interests. Especially down the road, this would be beneficial in relation to the unfair things the ex has said and done.

Yes if the Guardian is truly neutral that would be great BUT Guardians are people too - just like judges. I have seen my share of corrupt Guardians (one blatantly told my friend that she always seemed to favor whichever parent kept up to date on their payments to her - my friend always paid her early!). Mulan has made some mistakes in the past which could have really hurt her case worse if there was a Guardian in the picture.

Courts do not always follow the Guardian's recommendations but they are supposed to take them into consideration when making rulings regarding the children.

 

[barkley]

There has to be some sort of "law" to protect children from being taken by their non-custodial parent at the end of a visit. Anyone out there have any info on this? I was thinking along the same lines as DisneyBrat.....

Mulan, we are just trying to help you. Yes, we said that you should listen to your lawyer's advice, but some of the recent events have been quite unsettling and I think it's fair to say that we feel that your lawyer is not doing what is in your best interest and in the best interest of the kids.

What about a law guardian? At this point, wouldn't that be someone neutral to put an end to all this nonsense.

there are laws. i can't speak to how other jurisdictions interpret them, but i can tell you how the one i worked in child welfare for did-

in the absence of a court order, joint custody exists between both legal parents. when a court order states that one parent gets a child on specific days/times-if that parent complains that the child has not been returned the police will investigate and attempt to remedy the situation. where the wording is not specific (like 'everyother weekend' but without saying they have to be returned by 6 p.m. on sunday) the police will try to mediate but until that weekend legaly ends (midnight on sunday) they don't interpret it as a violation of the order (this is why specific wording in child custody agreements is so important).

like i said-i don't know how other jurisdictions interpret their laws, but if mulan's situation had occured in the one i worked in, i think, had she presented the custody order to the police, she would have gotten the same instructions (re. pursuing it through her lawyer). the reason being is she has said her custody order reads that the father gets the kids for 5 weeks in the summer with 30 days advanced notice and once 'summer visitation' has ended the every other week visitation (with their return at the designated time) would resume. it does'nt sound like the order says he has to do it in one 5 week chunk, just that if he chooses to he can-and it does'nt have a fixed date on when that 5 weeks starts or how the advance notification has to occur (honesty, in custody situations like this-most lawyers and child welfare advocates would insist that the agreement to the dates occur in writing to ensure it was cut and dry and could'nt disolve into a 'he said-she said' mess).

 

[blackforest]

I've been stewing and trying to get my temper under control before I typed! Just today our DD6 had to go to a visitation with her Birth Father. BF has not seen her for over 10 months, has phone access everyday for 1 hour time window, but doesn't call for weeks on end. Has repeatedly lied and done everything possible to make us not trust or believe him. I, along with DD made 17 trips to OK so that BF could have visitation. And 15 of these trips were back to back to back, for a week at a time! We finally came to an in-court agreement, and he still can't play by the rules.

He was suppposed to make arrangements through our parenting coordinator; instead his MOM calls and demands that we produce DD at 9 a.m. on Monday and then pick her up on Wednesday at 6 p.m. WHT?

So, we spent the weekend on the phone with our lawyer and the parenting coordinator. Our DD has a guardian ad litem, a psychologist in OK and a psychologist in OH. They all say that DD is suffering with all this upheaval, but for some reason, no seems to take the BF to task for his ineptitued and the interferance from his mother.

This has been going on for 6 years. DD was adopted at birth, but the OK courts overturned the ruling. The BF (20) had s*x with a 14 y.o. and yet gets to dictate DD's life?

Anyway, hang-in there Mulan! You are not alone. Dh and I are to the point that we might once again go to court and have a final showdown. I will ALWAYS love and would die for my DD, but the judicial system has failed her and us at every turn. We are ready to draw a line in the sand.

And just think, this system is better than 99% of the worlds!?

 

[hematite153]

I only have a second so I'll try to be brief and respond to the most important piece.

I think that we hear things and make guesses. Mulan, you have said before that you trust your attorney and that she is one of the few who is not afraid of JTB. Therefore, I think you should follow her advice exactly.

My one qualification to this would be to make sure it is her advice you are following. I.e. if she says "we could do A or B which do you prefer" you should respond with "tell me which is best and I'll do that one". Likewise, if at any point in the conversation you said, "I feel uncomfortable about XXXX" and then she gave you follow-up advice based on what you had just said then her advice might be based on the premise that you were going to do something regardless of what she said. I.e. if she felt that you weren't going to bring the kids on the 4th, then her advice around it would be about how to minimize the consequences of not bringing them. But, if she felt that you were really asking her what to do and were willing to do exactly what she said, then, you'd get the best advice she could possibly give you.

If the advice you've gotten was completely hers, then, follow it. If there's some uncertainty, then pay for the time to speak with her again.

 

[hematite153]

I've been stewing and trying to get my temper under control before I typed! Just today our DD6 had to go to a visitation with her Birth Father
...
This has been going on for 6 years. DD was adopted at birth, but the OK courts overturned the ruling. The BF (20) had s*x with a 14 y.o. and yet gets to dictate DD's life?
...
I will ALWAYS love and would die for my DD, but the judicial system has failed her and us at every turn. We are ready to draw a line in the sand.

Ugh! That sounds like a nightmare. I wish you all well.

 

[sunnyday123]

Mulan, good luck with this. I do hope that one day this is all over and done with, and DAMM can act like a human being. And I know it's very very super hard, but it will get easier to control you reactions to his actions.

When you have some time, go over your custody/visitation paperwork. I can't imagine that it's not specific as to the times of leaving/returning. Mine states who is responsible for picking up/dropping off ( non-custodial parent) the times and days. Holidays are vague, but we agreed to split the days so DD saw us both. We have the same 5 week arrangement in the summer, and if those 5 weeks ( cannot be consecutive) are not supplied to me by X by April 30, I can choose his weeks. Needless to say, I've always choosen his weeks. It would revert like yours to every other week if we cannot decide, and I also get final say-so on whomever watches her for more than 4 hours. I also had to put in their that he had to follow Dr's orders on giving her allergy med's, but that's a whole other ball of wax! I do know ( I was told by his and my atty) that if he is more than 15 min's late, I don't have to wait and if she isn't dropped off within 1/2 of the agreed upon time, I can contact the police. They will ( are supposed to ) assist in getting DD back, as there is specific ppwrk stating where she should be. Please please please when you go back, make sure your agreement is specific. This is horrible and no child should have to go through this. Good luck.

 

[momx2]

She will be sending DAMM a letter, but she wants me to send one before her, to show that I am communicating the only way left- via mail. And when he doesn't read the letter and shows up, it will show JTB that its him not me. That I have attempted all means of communication with him.

Okay, now I understand. Attorney is sending a letter also. She just wants you to go above and beyond to show the judge you are trying. Good idea. I do not think you should fire your attorney. It sounds as if she knows this judge well and is being extra cautious due to him. IMO, if you bring someone in from out of town at this point you will be tied up in the bad county forever and this judge won't care. I'm glad you are following your attorney's advice. No one on this board knows how "justice" works in small town Kentucky. I think it would be a mistake to bring in someone else at this point. Good luck!

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

First off, I will say- I trust my atty. She has a good repor with JTB and she makes sense to me. The whole July 4th visitation was 100% her idea- I have had my doubts about it on and off today- but bottom line- if he gets the kids on the 4th he will know about court on the 14th and he will keep them- the kids are not safe in co while we are in court there just in case. They are safer in NKY while I am in co and no one but me and my family knows their whereabouts.

Now, I am asking each and everyone of you to join me in prayer over the next 21 days- Robinb, I know you don't believe in God but whoever it is or just Karma, send the vibes this way....

This is what we need to pray. "God, please open JTB eyes and let him see the truth, the things DAMM has done and is doing. Please let JTB hold DAMM accountable and responsible for his actions so that justice my be served. AMEN"
The Bible PROMISES that when one or more is gathered in prayer, the prayer is heard. Please pray with me.

Mulan

 

[2poohbears]

I will join you in prayer, Mulan. And I will also pray that God give you peace of heart & mind, and watch over your little cherubs until they are with you again on FRI.

I think you are right to follow your attorney's advice. Most likely she doesn't want DAMM to know about the filing until after he returns the kiddos on FRI. Otherwise, he would probably keep them with him. I also see where she would want you to send a letter in addition to her "official" one - that makes sense to show you are attempting to communicate in the only way really available to you at this point.

I hope and pray the visitation is spelled out precisely, and to the children's advantage, when you go to court. I will pray that the judge will see the truth, and provide justice in his courtroom in this case.

I know this week will be especially rough for you. Hang in there.

 

[Frankiesmom]

I just have to say- this was all well in your control- and by you trying to throw the kids in the middle;as you always seem to do- you and that moron you were married to- you sow what you reap-you both keep playing games with these precious children! The $$$ you have wasted on legal fees could have well sent you and the little loved ones to a week at the GF RPC! All of this sooo sucks! I really hope those little babies are ok!

 

[Microcell]

Your kids are the most important thing, keep your eyes on that fact and you can't go wrong.

 

[livie1205]

When my ex tried the same thing with my son I went to his home and called 911. I had my custody papers in hand and demanded them to get someone who has authority since the initial officers didn't know how to handle the call. Their Sargent or Lieut. came to the rescue the ex was so upset and went off on the police officers they told him that one more time and they were taking him downtown. WELL long story short the officers said if we didn't settle this they would take my son who was a teen into protection until the next morning when the judge could rule. I love my son and would rather him be in protection then with his father who was mentallyand verbally abusing him. My ex said fine let his mother take him home. End of story never to be messed with again by his father.My ex had even gone so far as to have someone serve me papers from his "attorney" they weren't of course and that was when I went to get my son back! Sad but when Chris turned 18 his father said some very hurtful things and he hasn't spoke to him in almost 3 years.

I would NOT suggest this to anyone...they were taking a chance at tricking him into giving him back, the cops can not get involved in a family law matter...they can ask that he give them back but if he refused they can not make him...dh is a cop and deals with this all the time,he has had many calls where someone did not want to turn over kids and even though he wanted to help...his hands were tied.We have had to deal with this even in our family with my ex who is very much like her ex....and he can not do a thing, we have to call a lawyer...the one thing I would say is GET A NEW LAWYER ....you should NOT have to wait that long for a emer. hearing.

 

[momx2]

the one thing I would say is GET A NEW LAWYER ....you should NOT have to wait that long for a emer. hearing.

It is not up to the lawyer as to when a hearing is scheduled. It is up to the Judge. The Judge probably doesn't see this as much of an emergency. Once again....."small town kentucky."

 

[livie1205]

it sounded to me like she said that the lawyer said she was FILE for the hearing the next friday...the lawyer should file right away and then she could get a faster date...and the judge does not make his own schedule, her lawyer can call the judges clerk and find out if they can get a emrg. hearing.if her lawyer will not do it fast enough SHE can get the motion paper and fill it out herself and file it...I have had to do this and it does work.My ex has threated to not bring my son back a time or two but there is a reason he dont pull that anymore...I take care of it right away, I do not even bother with fighting with him ...I take his butt to court and he gets it handed to him by the judge BECAUSE i keep my cool..

 

[mla1977]

Can everyone what their refernces to where this is please? For Mulan's safety, please go back and edit your posts. Mulan, you may even want to check one of your last posts for security.

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

it sounded to me like she said that the lawyer said she was FILE for the hearing the next friday...the lawyer should file right away and then she could get a faster date...and the judge does not make his own schedule, her lawyer can call the judges clerk and find out if they can get a emrg. hearing.if her lawyer will not do it fast enough SHE can get the motion paper and fill it out herself and file it...I have had to do this and it does work.My ex has threated to not bring my son back a time or two but there is a reason he dont pull that anymore...I take care of it right away, I do not even bother with fighting with him ...I take his butt to court and he gets it handed to him by the judge BECAUSE i keep my cool..

The reason for waiting until Friday is to make sure the kids are back in Mulan's care BEFORE contacting the good ol' boy network. If the lawyer were to file before than DAMM would find out about it it might not return the kids on Friday just for spite.

 

[momx2]

The other reason is because, yes, the Judge does run his own schedule. If a Judge doesn't want to take the bench, then he doesn't. That's the way it works around here. I doubt the judge thinks this is an emergency. I'm not saying he is right, but saying what this judge would think.

 

[kt_mom]

I rarely post on this thread, but I do follow it every week.

Mulan I'm very concerned about your attorney's advice to skip the visitation on the 4th. I know that you trust her. But I just don't see where this is good advice. I'm not an attorney, so I'm in no position myself to advise you.

But it seems to me that by taking the kids for visitation this past weekend you acknowledged the return to every other weekend visits. He has gone against that this week by keeping the kids until Friday.

The judge may or may not get on him for that. But I think he will surely turn on you if you keep the kids from the visit on the 4th. And its right before court.

If it was me, I would take the kids to the half way point and drop them off, prepared to stay until Sunday. I would return Sunday to pick them up and if he doesn't show, which is a strong possibility, then you document it and take that with you to court. I know the idea of him keeping them another week is scary to you. But at least it will most likely be counted towards the five weeks.

If not, JTB is likely to award your ex an additional five weeks, possibly not even counting this week as one of them. And that would be horrible.

I just don't understand an attorney advising you to go against the court orders. I'm sure that she has her reasons, but whatever they are, JTB can still hold you responsible for the missed visitation. And he is much more likely to get on you for missed visitation then on your ex for keeping the kids this week.

 

[Fairy Godmother]

My guess is Mulan's lawyer wants to make sure the kids are in Mulan's physical custody when they go to court next month. Since JTB seems to rule however the mood strikes him on any given day it is very hard to predict what will happen when they go to court on the 14th. I am assuming that if things don't go Mulan's way it is better for the kids to be in the good county when it happens. I am not a lawyer so this is all speculation on my part.

Mulan you and your kids will be in my thoughts.

 

[kt_mom]

I still don't get it. I see it going against Mulan in court to have withheld the visitation. More time in Jail for her is no better for the kids. And could certainly make things worse in the long run.

I would think that the attorney would be obligated to advise Mulan to follow the courts orders.

And I do think that is what would be best in the long run for her. It will show her willingness to follow JTB's orders and maybe show her in a favorable light to him. He will get fed up with all this eventually and the better she looks in his eyes the better it will be for her and her children.

I know the idea of him keeping the kids for the whole week again like he did this time is scary, but I think the changes JTB could make should Mulan sufficiently set him off are scarier. She can't just ignore the court order.

I can't tell you what to do. I'm not an attorney. But I would have another talk with my attorney about this. Find out what exactly her reasoning is for this. I know everyone would feel better going to court knowing the kids are safe in county, but it could damage the case in the long term. You are the one that could possibly end up in Jail again. Like I said if you go to court and you have both done wrong, JTB is more likely to side with your ex than you.

If you have followed the court orders then at least he has nothing to come down on you with. It just scares me to give JTB any ammunition to use against you.